So, are we talking about that MMM thread..

[pixy0stix]

Jan 26, 2016 18:07:35 GMT -5 scottyderp said:

GROW A PAIR

Whoever the eff that is above.

Continue being "surprised" when a genuinely nice nestie is being defended.  Mmkay.

RIGHT?! Why can't you do that under your own name?

[teflepi]

Jan 26, 2016 18:06:54 GMT -5 zootownbella said:

I feel like the things Booby said to Kirkette are being overblown in the last few pages of this thread. Kirkette's feelings are valid, and poignant, in her explanation for her behavior, but that doesn't mean we need to construe another poster's behavior into something more than it was. Maybe she crossed a line. Maybe she shouldn't mess with posters she thinks are crazy. fine. 

As a recap-

As far as I can tell, it "started" in the mysterious white powder thread, where many people agreed with Booby's assessment- "Kirkette I've had my eye on you lately. I actually think you are a bit touched in the head. Unless maybe you are punking us with your online persona. Idk.
"


Read more: pandce.proboards.com/user/155/recent#ixzz3yOQPrEww 

Then, in the middle class "young philanthropist" thread, again where many posters expressed the same thoughts "i think it's awesome that Kirkette keeps bringing all this insane material to the gcbn. how do you go from being normal and quirky to the shit you've been spewing on here in the last month? you'd think your 'upbringing' and your wasp-i-ness (lol FOREVER) would have taught you some grace and subtlety. oh, and some self-awareness and social skills. you are a god damn trip.
 


Read more: pandce.proboards.com/user/155/recent#ixzz3yOQhyQ5l

Same thread, when someone defends K:

Epitome of grace?? Gtfo" and "She sounds like a god damned fool. That's why." And "it's not just this thread, but a culmination of her recent posts. I'm surprised at how committed some of you are to defending her. As another wise nestie concluded: she is becoming a parody of herself.
"


Read more: pandce.proboards.com/user/155/recent#ixzz3yOR6dELi

Then the confessions/flammables thread yesterday, you all know what was said, but what posters considered Kirkette's overreaction started from, again after other poster's agreed and tagged Booby for support: "I know I've been hard on you lately. That's really bc it was honestly funny (in the entertaining message board sort of way) - at first. Now? It is not funny, it's concerning. It's more pronounced and the frequency is escalating. You sound all jumbled up, but most of all, you are lacking some amount of self-awareness or even e-social code. You can't seem to see what we're talking about (w/r/t people telling you you sound crazy). A lot of people aside from me have expressed it and you should consider trying to understand why.
"


Read more: pandce.proboards.com/user/155/recent#ixzz3yOS75x9w

How this could be construed as the type of bullying that Kirkette and others are portraying it as now....idk. Are posters not allowed to call people out for posting foolish things?  Maybe it crossed a line, but its not the repeated, racially-tinged, vicious attacks on POC as Kirkette is making it out to be. 

I realize I'll get a SHE DOESN'T EVEN GO HERE gif, but whatevs, this mob mentality has morphed perceptions about Booby's behavior to something more egregious than it really was, and nobody is speaking rationally about what really went down. 

No, this is incorrect (and how many Booby is honing in on kirkette should be all that is needed).    People said she was racially insensitive (she fucking was) and other people, likely fully of privilege, were all "no, no, you are crazy" or "no, she is niccccce" (nice has nothing to do with it).  She then double down,tripled down, went all IDGAF on her and tried to turn the argument around instead of saying, hmm maybe.  Well, until page 2000, then it was recognized.  But, ok.  What damn mob?

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 26, 2016 18:05:42 GMT -5 papie said:

Jan 26, 2016 17:55:12 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Are you simple?

Who the fuck are you anyway?

I can't stay in here seeing booby being repeatedly called a racist because she is not. Does she have a beef with kirkette? Obviously. But she is not the one who made the threats in here.

I'm fuckibg out for the night.

Papie. I want to call you on the phone and talk this out because I think we'd get farther than here on the message board. I think you're smart and you'd get it, it's just getting lost in something.

People have repeatedly said that booby is not a kkk flag waving racist, but that she said racially insensitive things and targeted several women of color.

[pedanticwench]

Jan 26, 2016 18:11:11 GMT -5 toledo said:

At the risk of laying myself open for attack: I don't see the bullying. I also went back and looked at pages of interactions between booby and Kirkette. Not to catch anybody out, but to educate myself. I felt bad for missing all of this, and just writing it off as booby being a Mean Girl, because that's what she does. She's done it to me, etc., etc.

I thought maybe I didn't see the whole picture from one or two instances, or maybe it happened in threads I never opened (see: anything to do with wealth), so I wanted to see it all. And I still don't see it.

This is not an attempt to disbelieve or silence anyone. I am not attempting to negate Kirkette's experiences or defend booby. Nor am I trying to convict booby. I just need to know what we're talking about.

I went back and looked at some thread where booby called Kirkette touched or something and I tried to go back farther to piece it all together, but I don't have time for all of that shit.

Still, that comment alone is bullying, in my book. If someone said that to me, I would feel hurt and ashamed. I guess I feel that if booby was really coming from a place of concern there had to be another way of going about it, rather than randomly saying she thought Kirkette was "touched."

[irishbride2]

Jan 26, 2016 18:17:04 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:11:11 GMT -5 toledo said:

At the risk of laying myself open for attack: I don't see the bullying. I also went back and looked at pages of interactions between booby and Kirkette. Not to catch anybody out, but to educate myself. I felt bad for missing all of this, and just writing it off as booby being a Mean Girl, because that's what she does. She's done it to me, etc., etc.

I thought maybe I didn't see the whole picture from one or two instances, or maybe it happened in threads I never opened (see: anything to do with wealth), so I wanted to see it all. And I still don't see it.

This is not an attempt to disbelieve or silence anyone. I am not attempting to negate Kirkette's experiences or defend booby. Nor am I trying to convict booby. I just need to know what we're talking about.

When someone tries to discredit a black woman's "upbringing" and "class" -booby's quotes not mine- especially in the combative way booby did it, it is not just a micro aggression but something worse.

In short she was calling @kirkette "uppity" and not so subtly telling her to know her place. Now if you can't see how that would get a black woman hot I really don't know what to say.

I tend to be oblivious, yet the combo of calling out her class as well as calling her scary screamed "black female racial stereotypes" to me. Do I think booby realizes she is doing it? No. But that's the issue.

[miso]

Jan 26, 2016 18:17:58 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

There have been plenty of people (even POC) that have been in these threads and said we didn't see it as @kirkette saw it. The difference is thats usually where it stops for the black posters. You won't see me try to walk her feelings back. Because they are her own. It's not for me to decide. That's usually where these micro aggressions pop up. Stop trying to dictate how people feel.

I support this. Yes.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 26, 2016 18:19:18 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:14:42 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Papie. I want to call you on the phone and talk this out because I think we'd get farther than here on the message board. I think you're smart and you'd get it, it's just getting lost in something.

People have repeatedly said that booby is not a kkk flag waving racist, but that she said racially insensitive things and targeted several women of color. 

Booby has a history of targeting women of color? You better call me on 3-way.

Look. You tagged booby over there with fake concern about kirkette. Don't think that wasn't noticed. Part of this falls on you for continuing the behavior.

[eclaires]

Jan 26, 2016 18:11:11 GMT -5 toledo said:

At the risk of laying myself open for attack: I don't see the bullying. I also went back and looked at pages of interactions between booby and Kirkette. Not to catch anybody out, but to educate myself. I felt bad for missing all of this, and just writing it off as booby being a Mean Girl, because that's what she does. She's done it to me, etc., etc.

I thought maybe I didn't see the whole picture from one or two instances, or maybe it happened in threads I never opened (see: anything to do with wealth), so I wanted to see it all. And I still don't see it.

This is not an attempt to disbelieve or silence anyone. I am not attempting to negate Kirkette's experiences or defend booby. Nor am I trying to convict booby. I just need to know what we're talking about.

For me, it doesn't really matter if I don't see the bullying, though I do think following around a poster and finding their posts and commenting on them is certainly an element of bullying.  The point is, @kirkette felt targeted by booby and tried to get her to back off in other ways before this thread, and then finally really went in.  She also pointed to a pattern she has seen with booby and other posters who are also black, which probably impacted how she took booby's posts to her.  I am not up on those things mentioned, but I take her word for noticing that pattern and feeling like there was more to it and it had to do with race.  I also think her points about the class/grace/etc. made sense, and I think those types of insults were meant to shout her down and shut her up, and that's something she mentioned she's dealt with her whole life.

I think personal/real life experience impacts how we perceive things, and I can understand why my perception might be different than Kirkette's.  Since she's the one involved, and felt targeted, that's good enough for me.  I also understand getting to the point where you want someone to know you will not be fucked with, because well, I've done that in real life.  One of my neighbors is well aware that my kids are not to be fucked with and that was my goal in my interaction with her - I got to the point that I didn't care  if she thought I was a lunatic.

I hope that makes sense.

[teflepi]

Jan 26, 2016 18:23:14 GMT -5 freedom said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:11:11 GMT -5 toledo said:

At the risk of laying myself open for attack: I don't see the bullying. I also went back and looked at pages of interactions between booby and Kirkette. Not to catch anybody out, but to educate myself. I felt bad for missing all of this, and just writing it off as booby being a Mean Girl, because that's what she does. She's done it to me, etc., etc.

I thought maybe I didn't see the whole picture from one or two instances, or maybe it happened in threads I never opened (see: anything to do with wealth), so I wanted to see it all. And I still don't see it.

This is not an attempt to disbelieve or silence anyone. I am not attempting to negate Kirkette's experiences or defend booby. Nor am I trying to convict booby. I just need to know what we're talking about.

I honestly think booby thought kirkette was being uppity and thought she'd knock her down a peg or two. If kirkette was white, I think Bobby would have treated her like she treats pagas.

So, this is just a pattern?  (not said with snark.  Sorry, i realize it reads that way...it is just a question/observation)

And the "uppity" I think nails it on the head.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2016 18:11:11 GMT -5 toledo said:

At the risk of laying myself open for attack: I don't see the bullying. I also went back and looked at pages of interactions between booby and Kirkette. Not to catch anybody out, but to educate myself. I felt bad for missing all of this, and just writing it off as booby being a Mean Girl, because that's what she does. She's done it to me, etc., etc.

I thought maybe I didn't see the whole picture from one or two instances, or maybe it happened in threads I never opened (see: anything to do with wealth), so I wanted to see it all. And I still don't see it.

This is not an attempt to disbelieve or silence anyone. I am not attempting to negate Kirkette's experiences or defend booby. Nor am I trying to convict booby. I just need to know what we're talking about.

To me, I see her questioning Kirkette's "class" as mirroring some of the "know your place" ideologue of the past.

Like, when people say Michelle Obama has no class for how she dresses (ex. Wearing sleeveless dresses)

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 18:25:57 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:21:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Look. You tagged booby over there with fake concern about kirkette. Don't think that wasn't noticed. Part of this falls on you for continuing the behavior.

Show me where booby has a history of targeting women of color?

This is llama-farm level love between you two!

[05heel]

Jan 26, 2016 18:19:18 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:14:42 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Papie. I want to call you on the phone and talk this out because I think we'd get farther than here on the message board. I think you're smart and you'd get it, it's just getting lost in something.

People have repeatedly said that booby is not a kkk flag waving racist, but that she said racially insensitive things and targeted several women of color. 

Booby has a history of targeting women of color? You better call me on 3-way.

you're an idiot.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 26, 2016 18:25:57 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:21:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Look. You tagged booby over there with fake concern about kirkette. Don't think that wasn't noticed. Part of this falls on you for continuing the behavior.

Show me where booby has a history of targeting women of color?

Why do I need to? What does that gain you? Evidence that booby is being unfairly targeted by "scary" posters? LOL!

[teflepi]

Jan 26, 2016 18:25:57 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:21:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Look. You tagged booby over there with fake concern about kirkette. Don't think that wasn't noticed. Part of this falls on you for continuing the behavior.

Show me where booby has a history of targeting women of color?

Smo mentioned this; sfy did as well.  Page 8 or something as just one example.

[scottyderp]

I can't say that booby wasn't being unintentionally racist, but I'd be hard-pressed to believe she is intentionally racist.  Both are not good, I understand.

I do, however, think she goes unfuckingbelievablyhard at people who annoy her.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 26, 2016 18:28:18 GMT -5 teflepi said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:25:57 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Show me where booby has a history of targeting women of color?

Smo mentioned this; sfy did as well.  Page 8 or something as just one example.

Exactly, it's already been done. There's been multiple pages of discussion where this has been mentioned.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 26, 2016 18:19:18 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:14:42 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Papie. I want to call you on the phone and talk this out because I think we'd get farther than here on the message board. I think you're smart and you'd get it, it's just getting lost in something.

People have repeatedly said that booby is not a kkk flag waving racist, but that she said racially insensitive things and targeted several women of color. 

Booby has a history of targeting women of color? You better call me on 3-way.

Yeah, this wasn't an open invitation for a conference call. Sorry.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2016 18:28:31 GMT -5 scottyderp said:

I can't say that booby wasn't being unintentionally racist, but I'd be hard-pressed to believe she is intentionally racist.  Both are not good, I understand.

I do, however, think she goes unfuckingbelievablyhard at people who annoy her.

Very well said. 

It gets old fast. 

[Deleted]

Booby finding Kirkette uppity should have been like an instant friendship bracelet.

I'm irritated that it keeps coming up that Booby isn't intentionally racist. That's not the fucking point. Booby is racist in the way that frankly, all of us can be and have been. It's so easy to be flippant based on our own perceptions/histories/dumb bunnyness.

[suzyp]

Jan 26, 2016 18:34:41 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:25:57 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Show me where booby has a history of targeting women of color?

I'll give you one. Booby goes in on @wandering about her dating a musician who actually makes money. I don't know if that is because wandering is black, if there is some extra jealousy, or something else. But the way she goes in on her makes me go hmmm. And I don't even go here and ML moves way too fast for me to keep up, but even I noticed this.

Now I am sure there a several people who are going to jump in and say this has nothing to do with race. But I beg to differ.

To be fair, I believe this is because wandering is still friends with Gypsy.  Kore was treated the same way (as were others I believe).

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 18:34:56 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:28:31 GMT -5 scottyderp said:

I can't say that booby wasn't being unintentionally racist, but I'd be hard-pressed to believe she is intentionally racist.  Both are not good, I understand.

I do, however, think she goes unfuckingbelievablyhard at people who annoy her.

Very well said. 

It gets old fast. 

It does.  We politely avoid each other.  I know the next time I post about drinking ginger for energy, I am so dead.   I think that booby is very funny, sometimes, and has actually said some very nice things to try to help me with my marriage a couple of times.  I just think she may not realize that she is IMMM-ing the eff out of people.  Or she does.

Idk.  And, I can see her right now, flipping off my post and calling me crazy.  I'm sorryyyy.  Also, I fully acknowledge that I've gone full-dick on here, before.

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 18:37:05 GMT -5 @bettyhomewrecker said:

Booby finding Kirkette uppity should have been like an instant friendship bracelet.

I'm irritated that it keeps coming up that Booby isn't intentionally racist. That's not the fucking point. Booby is racist in the way that frankly, all of us can be and have been. It's so easy to be flippant based on our own perceptions/histories/dumb bunnyness.

Anyone questioning the power and pain involved in enduring racism of any kind is dreaming. 

[05heel]

Jan 26, 2016 18:35:02 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:27:40 GMT -5 05heel said:

you're an idiot.

This honestly hurts my feelings.

I don't care.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 26, 2016 18:37:05 GMT -5 @bettyhomewrecker said:

Booby finding Kirkette uppity should have been like an instant friendship bracelet.

I'm irritated that it keeps coming up that Booby isn't intentionally racist. That's not the fucking point. Booby is racist in the way that frankly, all of us can be and have been. It's so easy to be flippant based on our own perceptions/histories/dumb bunnyness.

I actually think it's exactly the point.

Racism and racist behavior isn't always (or even often here) in your face eating pie at the KKK pie store. It's the small things that build. It's the microaggressions. It's the flippancy. It's the word choice. It's the not believing it until you've been beat over year head for 20 pages of evidence and still wandering around claiming you don't see it.

[sparkythelawyer]

It is not important whether or not I see/agree when someone points out racially aggressive behavior. I'm the whitest effing white woman living in the whitest effing suburb. I have no meaningful experience to draw upon.

It is my responsibility, however, when someone points out actions that they perceive as racially aggressive to listen, believe, and learn from it so that I don't hurt someone that way in the future.

I'm sorry Kirkette was made to feel so violated here. I have learned a lot about the world around me by reading her posts.

[MixedBerryJam]

Jan 26, 2016 16:54:01 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jan 26, 2016 16:12:46 GMT -5 cajunmom said:

...

All snark aside, miso has been fine, and has been a great friend through out all of this. If you want to point fingers, point them at yourself. And ask some reflection questions. Why didn't you notice what was happening? Why didn't you say something or do something when I repeatedly said I was being targeted, and needed your help? ...
Again, I am not being snarky. I'd just appreciate if anyone still questioning things would pause for a momemt, and dig deep inside to see why that is, and why such assholish behavior was allowed to persist for so long.

I know this comment wasn't specifically directed at me, as I have stayed out of this thread because I have a pathological aversion to conflict and pretty much always stay out of difficult threads. But your questions speak to me, personally, as does the "microagressions" pdf you or someone else posted earlier in this thread. I am embarrassed at how many of those behaviors I do, in my ignorance. I am embarrassed that my personal comfort (staying out of the thread, I mean) came at the expense of one more voice not speaking up. That was too high a price to pay, and I am sorry.

I am so sorry that happened to your daughter and your family and that you are still dealing with the aftermath. 

[05heel]

Jan 26, 2016 11:55:08 GMT -5 Que? said:

Some of you have valid points. Some of you are fucking ridiculous and are derailing anything valuable.
Maybe if you're a white woman from some rando town in a hick state, YOU should be embarassed about schooling a POC from one of the most metropolitan cities in North America about racial insensitivity.

still laughing at this shit, Que. Please never, ever defend me if this is the best you can come up with.

[FastHands]

Is "get your cousin" an exaggeration of Booby's attitude/comments, or did she literally say that??

[BaliHai]

Jan 26, 2016 12:37:59 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jan 26, 2016 12:29:03 GMT -5 LLL said:

I need help understanding what the topic is. I'm both saddened and confused, what the hell is going on in here?

The original topic way back when that started on MMM was micro aggressions. 

There is a handy dandy pdf chart of micro aggressions that was posted on MMM that I think is enlightening for some. But clearly that message got lost long ago. 

So for anyway who cares for some reading material:
www.ucop.edu/academic-personnel-programs/_files/seminars/Tool_Recognizing_Microaggressions.pdf

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this. I learn so much from these boards, but I still have a long way to go, and this chart in particular brought that home for me.

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 19:18:31 GMT -5 mishy said:

For everyone defending booby, how would you react if your behavior was seen as racially insensitive, and it was pointed out by multiple POC, many of whom are long-time, well-respected posters?

(hint: your answer should be some version of "the exact opposite of how bobby reacted")

Who cares if she's racist or not if this is how she behaves? IT'S NOT GOOD. Is she physically or mentally unable to apologize? IT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE WHEN YOU SPEAK OF HOW GREAT A PERSON SHE IS. IF SHE'S SO GREAT, WHY THE FUCK CAN'T SHE OWN UP TO SHITTY BEHAVIOR AND FUCKING APOLOGIZE? How fragile is her ego that she can't take some responsibility and say, whoa, I'm really sorry?

Seriously.

This happened with me.  I thought Giuliana Rancic might not be racist for making a weed/patchouli oil comment about Zendaya Coleman's dredlocks.  I thought she was commenting on her dreds as though she looked like a hippie.  I genuinely thought they were innocent remarks and people were mad, I argued, as a dumb white woman from a hick town, and I felt horrible, angry, defensive, because I mean well, and was genuinely confused, so I GBCN'ed.  I didn't apologize when I returned, but I made the choice to listen, instead of assume that I know.  I didn't stay and accept criticisms, the talk was too charged with emotion and people were f*cking pissed.  I understand why, now, I didn't then.  My point, I think it's sort of natural for people to run away or not want to apologize, especially if they don't understand.  I'm not saying it's okay to be racist.