Also, at least two of the Trump supporters I know IRL attended Bob Jones University, so there's that. They're surprisingly open minded (ish) for people who went to Bob Jones, but they still "think Trump makes a lot of sense." :?
Post by jeaniebueller on Mar 2, 2016 11:44:48 GMT -5
lurkingaw, thanks for chiming in, even though you knew your opinions would not be well received. And your post is exactly what the problem with Trump is. At least with Cruz or even Rubio, we would be having substantive policy discussions. With Trump, we are talking about Rubio sweating and drinking water, David Duke and whatever twitter post the Donald has issued that day. He has no position on any issue.
lurkingaw , thanks so much for sharing. What is it about HRC that bothers you? I see her as a pretty strong moderate. She's even picked up pretty wide support here from people who don't typically vote D. Is it the social stuff?
One explanation I read last night reminded me of unikitty in the Lego movie. Where she's like "business business business...numbers...{is this working?}"
Apparently some people think trump is a good businessman. That and no career politicians. Probably also fear and unacknowledged racism.
One explanation I read last night reminded me of unikitty in the Lego movie. Where she's like "business business business...numbers...{is this working?}"
Apparently some people think trump is a good businessman. That and no career politicians. Probably also fear and unacknowledged racism.
One of the two Trump supporters I've met IRL was all about the business shit. He recommended that H and I to read The Art of the Deal. He said that's what convinced him that Trump would be amazing as president.
It seems crazy to me people will not vote for Hillary Clinton because they don't "trust" her, but will vote for Trump, when basically everything that comes out of his mouth is either a lie, or meant to be a soundbite.
In any case, I'm not interested in hearing from Trump supporters either. I know where they stand.
All I know is my new favorite way to pass the time is to watch trump rallies and press conferences. I just have to pretend that it's not real to fully enjoy it.
Guys he actually said that no Mexicans would be allowed to carry air conditioners across the wall from the new carrier plant. There was more in that ten minute tangent, but he actually said THAT. It was probably a joke and sarcasm but he basically talks non stop completely out of his ass.
I can't look away. I'm mesmerized by it.
Also has he spent any money on ads? Because it seems like all he does is go on TV shows and then dominate the news cycle for 24 hours. Rinse. Repeat.
All I know is my new favorite way to pass the time is to watch trump rallies and press conferences. I just have to pretend that it's not real to fully enjoy it.
Guys he actually said that no Mexicans would be allowed to carry air conditioners across the wall from the new carrier plant. There was more in that ten minute tangent, but he actually said THAT. It was probably a joke and sarcasm but he basically talks non stop completely out of his ass.
I can't look away. I'm mesmerized by it.
Also has he spent any money on ads? Because it seems like all he does is go on TV shows and then dominate the news cycle for 24 hours. Rinse. Repeat.
He's got a winning formula to guarantee coverage and voters. Say something outrageous to appeal to the bigots, dominate the news cycle until he issues a quasi retraction or "clarification" to appeal to the less bigoted people, allowing them to say "media gotcha, he's a victim, he clarified! See not racist/sexist/etc!" Then dominate the news cycle while they dissect his explanation. The process allows both avowed racists and dumb people who think they aren't racist to like him. While keeping himself in the news. And he does this over and over and over again.
OK, I saw a really interesting convo about Trump on a friend's facebook page (read "friend" loosely, it's a guy I went to high school with, a local politico in Mass, who just changed from D to R; so, yeah)
Politico Guy Ok, Trump vs. Clinton it is. Feels like Sophie's Choice.
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25 people like this.
Comments
[not all, mind you]
TK: A choice between Hillary and Trump is a choice between socialism and fascism. God help us all.
KK: Yeah, TK.. But no ones sure which is which.
I wish we could vote to start over, with current presidential pundits ineligible to participate..
BC: Anybody who would chose Hillary over Trump should agree to replace our service members in harms way. To pick a career politician already bought and paid for is beyond stupid to me. Our country needs change not more of the same unaccounted nonsense
DM: She has blatantly said she intends to continue Obamas policies..
Umm.. No thanks!!!
JM So let's put someone in that has no idea of world policies because he runs a bisiness and if it fails hell just go bankrupt or maybe we should take old lady's homes away in public domain to replace with a parking lot for my casino
DM What???
BC 1 the government's already bankrupt.
2 the government has been practicing eminent domain for a long time. That's how my grandparents lost thier house.
3 politics is buisness
4 what embassy do want to guard ??
BC Thats right hipsters don't provide the blanket, just lay under it
DM Damn right B.....
KK We need to add a ballot spot for "Disqualify everyone and start over with ACTUAL intelligent people.."
Or as a prominent certified nerd says:
PG Ugh...Feels like no choice. God help us!
MH Christi looked like a hostage at Trumps White House speech last night
BS If you have been frustrated with welfare abuse you voted Trump. If you have lost your job to a company moving overseas you voted Trump. To add a 35% tariff to companies who move overseas to third world countries with no environmental or labor restrictions is something the working class has been begging for. He won the union vote and got way more votes than Romney got in either primary in MA.
MR I am more concerned with corporate America welfare abuse.
Personally, I'm really... interested... in that final commentary from "BS"... has Trump said that he'll add large tariffs to companies who move jobs overseas?
FWIW, my super conservative BIL and his wife who posts about Benghazi all the time both told me that they're just sitting this election out because they can't stand Trump and don't like anyone else running.
I have been seeing a lot of that in regards to the Bernie Bros on my wall--if Hillary is the D nom, they will just not vote. So frustrating.
I know 4 IRL people who voted for trump, and did so proudly: police officer, teacher, recent MBA grad, stay at home 1%er. Their logic is just what wawa said--people are sick of the current institution and establishment. That means you are either Bernie or Trump. It just so happens that these are all conservative individuals so they went with Trump.
Is this a board cliche I've missed out on? I'm actually seriously asking. I've seen her appeal to a lot of people I wouldn't have expected her to appeal to.
It's sort of like when my Fiorina/Trump loving cousin asked me this on Facebook when I had posted something about Hillary: "I am sick of both sides, frankly. We need someone who isn't a politician in there. I wish we could toss the whole lot of them out of office. If you are set on a woman president, have you looked at Carly Fiorina?"
I mean, me, abortion loving, hippie, liberal woman's rights, equality loving, BLM posting me be a Fiorina supporter? She knew I would never support PP-hate-perpetuating Fiorina, but wanted to distill me down to just wanting a woman president.
It's admirable that you would presume that we can change someone's mind after lurkingaw has said why she is a Cruz supporter. She is ideologically so far from HRC with the "social stuff" that it's pretty obvious that HRC is not going to be her candidate.
Post by cookiemdough on Mar 2, 2016 12:55:28 GMT -5
I think Trump going this far in the race is proof to his supporters that he is a WINNER. No matter how unlikely a candidate he is, no matter how many mistakes he has made, he still managed to come out as a front runner. If you just want America to be great again his unexpected success in this political race helps shows he can make it happen.
I think Trump going this far in the race is proof to his supporters that he is a WINNER. No matter how unlikely a candidate he is, no matter how many mistakes he has made, he still managed to come out as a front runner. If you just want America to be great again his unexpected success in this political race helps shows he can make it happen.
We are fucked.
I really think the winning narrative is swaying a lot of people who have felt like the last 8-10 years has been a barrage of how wrong and stupid they are. I also think they listen less to criticism each year to the point that it is noise they just tune out.
lurkingaw, thanks so much for sharing. What is it about HRC that bothers you? I see her as a pretty strong moderate. She's even picked up pretty wide support here from people who don't typically vote D. Is it the social stuff?
It isn't just social stuff. I think downtoearth hits the nail on the head though. To me HRC only seems moderate in a world in which Bernie Sanders could be Pres. I mean, I'm all in for Cruz, who is pretty far on the other end of the spectrum. Putting aside social issues, I disagree with a lot of HRC's positions on size and scope of government. She doesn't seem like a viable alternative to Trump to me, just another option I dislike. I'll either vote third party or just abstain for the election. But I'll still show up to vote for the other down ballot candidates. I just pray conservatives don't stay home altogether.
It isn't just social stuff. I think downtoearth hits the nail on the head though. To me HRC only seems moderate in a world in which Bernie Sanders could be Pres. I mean, I'm all in for Cruz, who is pretty far on the other end of the spectrum. Putting aside social issues, I disagree with a lot of HRC's positions on size and scope of government. She doesn't seem like a viable alternative to Trump to me, just another option I dislike. I'll either vote third party or just abstain for the election. But I'll still show up to vote for the other down ballot candidates. I just pray conservatives don't stay home altogether.
Thanks for answering. I promise it was neither a trap nor a means to entice you into voting for her! I didn't vote for her yesterday, but I will vote for her if she's the Democratic nominee. She leaves me cold on several issues, mostly her ties to corporations and Wall Street, as well as her support for TPP.
She's probably to you what Rubio or Kasich are for me. Like, I could get behind them if I HAD to, but my feelings are lukewarm at best.
ETA: Sorry I'm not getting more specific on my reasons for disliking HRC. I'm too tired and pregnant to go fifty rounds today with the HRC cheerleaders here. I hope you understand why I don't support her due to general differences in ideology.
From the bump spin-off post: "I don't pick my candidates based on abortion rights because I don't think ANY president will change that. And I don't think Trump is a woman hater. He says some really stupid stuff, but who doesn't?"
And from the same poster: "I don't see the Muslim thing as being racist as more of a poorly thought out plan to stop terrorism, as many see it impossible to separate peaceful Muslims and radicals, so they group them in one as he has."
That pretty much sums it up for me.
Well, she is right, it's not racist. Muslim isn't a race. It's xenophobic.
I do think Trump is fucking with people a bit in his campaign. Like, he came to Tulsa and OKC-and spelled the names of BOTH CITIES WRONG. Like, once, error, shit happens. BOTH cities? You are fucking with us a bit, aren't you? Or someone on his campaign is fucking with Trump. That's actually more plausible.
I really try not to post politics on Facebook--H and I are both the heads of different ministry boards of our church, and I feel like sometimes what the ministry leaders say on their personal FB pages is construed as the church's opinion rather than our *personal* opinions, which is not something that I'm usually comfortable with. But, as someone who leans pretty moderate but is surrounded geographically by a lot of people who tend a lot more conservative (and mostly Tea Party, I suspect) I couldn't help but reposting Max Lucado's article about Trump not passing the "decency test" recently.
A small number of Trump supporters chimed in in the comments, and they said things like:
"I want a bulldog in the oval office, not a poodle. I want someone to come in swinging a hammer." "With Trump, at least you know what you're getting. He says what he thinks even if it isn't politically correct." "Decency is irrelevant in the oval office." "He's the lesser of the two evils between Trump and HRC." "He knows how to get stuff done and doesn't take any crap."
One of them incredulously asked if I'd really stay home or vote independent if Trump received the nomination. I said yes, that I will not vote against my conscience for someone who is openly racist, sexist, and intentionally unkind just to put a Republican in office. They lamented that we are a two-party system and that a vote for an independent is a vote for HRC.
Actually, if Trump gets the nomination, I'd probably vote for HRC, and I don't think it would be a difficult decision for me. I had two other moms come up to me at the grocery store after school drop-off and say the same.
Given what we know about Trump - and thanks to his bottomless narcissism we have endless actual footage of him - I'd rather he be elected than Cruz. Because at the end of the day Trump will do or say whatever he needs to do stay in a (perceived) position of power. He can be bought. He can be molded. he'll be come a puppet of the republican establishment and while that's scary in and of itself, at least there is an element of the devil you know.
Cruz on the other hand is an ideological purist, and while for those who agree with him that's great, I think he's absolutely terrifying. His ability to accomplish his goals will be greatly limited by the fact that congress hates him, but that's not enough to comfort me.
ETA: I meant to preface this as a counter to all of those "you know where he stands" comments. Just because someone uses coarse language, or third-grade level language targeted at people who don't think that hard, doesn't mean he's honest. I don't understand how people think that.
She's probably to you what Rubio or Kasich are for me. Like, I could get behind them if I HAD to, but my feelings are lukewarm at best.
ETA: Sorry I'm not getting more specific on my reasons for disliking HRC. I'm too tired and pregnant to go fifty rounds today with the HRC cheerleaders here. I hope you understand why I don't support her due to general differences in ideology.
That's an apt comparison probably.
And I understand! How many weeks are you? What number baby is this? Congrats!
33w3d today, but my body feels done. It's tired! This is baby #5. Thanks!!
Is this a board cliche I've missed out on? I'm actually seriously asking. I've seen her appeal to a lot of people I wouldn't have expected her to appeal to.
I can answer this for my mom (she's a Bernie supporter - tried and true Democrat and detests Trump - but I know what she doesn't like about HRC). She doesn't trust her or Bill further than she can throw them. Mom is one of the original femisnists, and before Bill even entered the presidential race - the Clintons (both of them) made my parents really angry with how they painted the women whom Bill slept with. They were painted as whores, sluts and obviously hitting on him and they both found that gross. They don't believe she's changed those views, she's just keeping them better under wraps. She's not impressed with the work that Hillary did in the Senate - only passing 3 laws - one of which was naming a Post Office. She thinks she bought the election in NY for that Senate seat given that they had no real connections to NY prior to that. She doesn't like how they claimed to be poor and destitute after leaving the white house and their complete lack of acknowledgement of power. She doesn't trust her on race relations, and I have to say - Clinton's recent off the cuff reactions with race are kind of proving my mom's point.
I'm not a Trump supporter, and never will be but I do know a lot of friends that would vote for trump over HRC.
The reasoning is usually, (Not mine, theirs, although I do agree on one point.)
1. HRC is anti-military and has sacrificed lives of american service members, and in Benghazi gone against the mission that service members hold so dear.
2. HRC is Pro-choice, pro equal social rights. (Majority of people in my social circle are VERY conservative and believe that abortion is murder and should be treated as such, under any circumstances, they also believe that gay people should be able to have civil unions, but not marriage because God created that for a man and woman. )
3. HRC is pro gun control.
4. The emails, oh man the emails. Major nail in the coffin for her in my friends eyes. Personally, I agree that she handled the emails wrongly and that it should not be ignored or swept under the rug.
I will vote the democratic nominee over Trump, even though I have serious concerns about how HRC will effect the military budgets, and foreign wars. I do strongly feel that my husband is safer with her as president than he would be with Trump. And I thought I loved Bernie, but then I looked at his actual policies and I cant get behind that, I think I just liked the idea of a candidate like Bernie, who has had a consistent position for such a long time and was independent.
I'm not a Trump supporter, and never will be but I do know a lot of friends that would vote for trump over HRC.
The reasoning is usually, (Not mine, theirs, although I do agree on one point.)
1. HRC is anti-military and has sacrificed lives of american service members, and in Benghazi gone against the mission that service members hold so dear.
2. HRC is Pro-choice, pro equal social rights. (Majority of people in my social circle are VERY conservative and believe that abortion is murder and should be treated as such, under any circumstances, they also believe that gay people should be able to have civil unions, but not marriage because God created that for a man and woman. )
3. HRC is pro gun control.
4. The emails, oh man the emails. Major nail in the coffin for her in my friends eyes. Personally, I agree that she handled the emails wrongly and that it should not be ignored or swept under the rug.
I will vote the democratic nominee over Trump, even though I have serious concerns about how HRC will effect the military budgets, and foreign wars. I do strongly feel that my husband is safer with her as president than he would be with Trump. And I thought I loved Bernie, but then I looked at his actual policies and I cant get behind that, I think I just liked the idea of a candidate like Bernie, who has had a consistent position for such a long time and was independent.
I think this is interesting b/c one of our closest friends is currently a higher-ranked Army Colonel and pro-HRC even to the point of bugging his pro Bernie wife about her donations to Bernie. He and the other, usually higher ranking, Democrats working directly with him in the Army have a favorable view of Hillary (at least according to him), but most of the younger enlisted Army members and reserves are more Republican and more Trump fans. I wonder if this divide is again the education divide we are seeing outside of the military, but maybe not with the reserves included.
However, my just-retired higher-ranked Air Force cousin is, I think, Rubio leaning, but I wouldn't doubt that he would vote Trump over Hillary based on his wife's FB posts to me about HRC. And another Army cousin is conservative and from ROTC, so educated. He hasn't said who he is voting for, from his FB likes I think he's probably a Rubio/Trump fan who isn't impressed with HRC and doesn't like Cruz.
It's kind of telling how socioeconomically separated our country is that so many people don't know anyone IRL who supports Trump.
What's weird for me is that my extended family includes the types of people we are saying support Trump (white, poor, uneducated) and who generally are very conservative (hidden from FB feed due to the number of Fox "news" stories I was seeing). My sister had an anti-Trump rant the other day (she's supporting Bernie for now, would vote for HRC in the general) and these families members liked her post. I went to their pages, and they're all supporting Cruz or Rubio.
I was 100% sure several of them would be on the "Trump train," as they have said things like "The North Koreans shoot illegal immigrants on sight, why shouldn't we?" or "If white people can be called crackers, why can't I use the n word (and various other slurs)?" I've only seen one real Trump supporter on FB, a friend of a friend. (He offers no insight into why he's on the "Trump train" other than "Trump's a winner").
So where the hell are these people? Who are they talking to?