This just occurred to me as well...I feel like this election is all about "liking" the candidate, especially in regard to Clinton. Why this rise in "likability"? I can despise someone but still know they're the best person for the job - I mean, it's not like I have to have chemistry for a working relationship with the President, ya know? Maybe this has always been a thing.
True, but it's hard for me to vote for someone I don't like. This has probably increased, subconsciously for me, because of how much I love Obama. I usually like the person or I'm indifferent. I can't recall voting for someone I actively dislike. I am there/getting there with HRC, depending on the day, which is unfortunate, because pre-2007, I was a big fan, and even this time last year, I was trying to work myself to get excited about her again. Nevertheless, I voted for her in the primary and will do so in the general, because I think she is the best person for the job in either party. So I guess I agree with you.
For all you who think that writing in a candidate "sends a message," as an election judge, I can tell you that it does not. We can only tally and report the names of people who have followed the proper procedure to become a viable candidate. The others names don't get reported. If they did, every election we'd be reporting votes for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck.
Not to you, but GOP strategist will know, and have been following, the decline or plateau of both registered D & R party preference voters. By not voting for candidates slated, they will be taking another note to the trend, as the allocate focus to their regrouping strategy efforts. At the lower local levels, Republican candidates are gaining ground (at least in CA, I can't remember if it's as a whole.).
There's an issue with voter registration on both sides, because the current voting pool is not as extreme as the candidates put forward. Hence the rise of Is/ Decline to States, and the potential for a 3rd party candidate to make a stronger showing this year.
So, if the GOP has to lose this year, to finally rid itself from Fundie minded aims, then, I'm not shedding any tears.
But they won't know if you voted write in versus just not voting for either candidate. You could just not choose either and it would count exactly the same way. We have a few people who come in and cast a ballot with no votes--often it's someone who can then tell their union boss that they voted, even though they made no choice.
I think people really underestimate the amount of hate people have for HRC. I mean, I am not a fan of her at all, BUT, I can look pragmatically at how she'd likely govern, and find scenarios where I could vote for her. I have been shocked by the level of vitriol for her by people I consider to be realistic, intelligent cons. Her policies, her relatively hawkish approach to foreign affairs matter not at all to them, because they think she is so flawed and corrupt. They can't see the forest for the tree.
Also has he spent any money on ads? Because it seems like all he does is go on TV shows and then dominate the news cycle for 24 hours. Rinse. Repeat.
Yes. I posted one here last week. The one with the black man who said he was voting for Trump because his son was killed by an illegal immigrant and Trump was going to get rid of them.
Also, I see several posters saying that the Trump supporters they know plan to vote for him because of his business acumen. Won't you all please share with them this article which outlines his many failings and discusses how he'd have roughly 2-3 times the net worth he has today if he'd let his inheritance ride in the stock market? I know it is unlikely to help, but worth a shot, nonetheless.
I think people really underestimate the amount of hate people have for HRC. I mean, I am not a fan of her at all, BUT, I can look pragmatically at how she'd likely govern, and find scenarios where I could vote for her. I have been shocked by the level of vitriol for her by people I consider to be realistic, intelligent cons. Her policies, her relatively hawkish approach to foreign affairs matter not at all to them, because they think she is so flawed and corrupt. They can't see the forest for the tree.
I agree with you on this. In response to the FB post I mentioned earlier, I keep seeing people say that between HRC and Trump, Trump is the "lesser of two evils". And I've been over here pounding my head against the wall trying to figure out WHY he is the lesser of two evils, but I think it may just come down to such deep hatred that they're unable to see facts. Which is really sad.
It's kind of telling how socioeconomically separated our country is that so many people don't know anyone IRL who supports Trump.
What's weird for me is that my extended family includes the types of people we are saying support Trump (white, poor, uneducated) and who generally are very conservative (hidden from FB feed due to the number of Fox "news" stories I was seeing). My sister had an anti-Trump rant the other day (she's supporting Bernie for now, would vote for HRC in the general) and these families members liked her post. I went to their pages, and they're all supporting Cruz or Rubio.
I was 100% sure several of them would be on the "Trump train," as they have said things like "The North Koreans shoot illegal immigrants on sight, why shouldn't we?" or "If white people can be called crackers, why can't I use the n word (and various other slurs)?" I've only seen one real Trump supporter on FB, a friend of a friend. (He offers no insight into why he's on the "Trump train" other than "Trump's a winner").
So where the hell are these people? Who are they talking to?
I have a coworker who I was sure would be the only Trump supporter I actually knew. I'm 98% sure she was a birther, so it seemed like a forgone conclusion. Anyway, a week or so ago, she went on a major anti-Trump tirade. I was blown away. I was dying to ask who she was voting for, but I don't ask any of my coworkers personal questions lest they believe it could be reciprocal. I'm thinking it has to be Cruz, but who knows. Either way, I am now sure I don't know a single one, personally. I'm black, so seems legit.
It's kind of telling how socioeconomically separated our country is that so many people don't know anyone IRL who supports Trump.
What's weird for me is that my extended family includes the types of people we are saying support Trump (white, poor, uneducated) and who generally are very conservative (hidden from FB feed due to the number of Fox "news" stories I was seeing). My sister had an anti-Trump rant the other day (she's supporting Bernie for now, would vote for HRC in the general) and these families members liked her post. I went to their pages, and they're all supporting Cruz or Rubio.
I was 100% sure several of them would be on the "Trump train," as they have said things like "The North Koreans shoot illegal immigrants on sight, why shouldn't we?" or "If white people can be called crackers, why can't I use the n word (and various other slurs)?" I've only seen one real Trump supporter on FB, a friend of a friend. (He offers no insight into why he's on the "Trump train" other than "Trump's a winner").
So where the hell are these people? Who are they talking to?
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
The only Trump supporters I know are my BFF's brother (whom she has since cut off when he mentioned he uses the N word all the time, even around his DAUGHTER and LAUGHED about how he is surprised his daughter hasn't started using the N word). And my BIL (my sister's husband's brother) who told his mom she is a failure as a woman because she isn't completely submissive to her husband. So, THAT is what I think of when I think Trump supporter: ignorant, racist, misogynists.
Post by downtoearth on Mar 2, 2016 16:36:46 GMT -5
I have quite a few extended family supporters on one side of the family, plus at least 1 or 2 coworkers, and then maybe one friend (which shocked me and he got an earful from me about it). But I'm in a red state for presidential elections. I'm guessing it's more common in rural areas to know some Trump people. Nobody has hats, T-shirts or signs up yet, but our primary is in June.
Oh and I'm sure the protestors at the rally for Human Rights and refugees last night were all Trump supporters, but there were 300+ of us standing up for human rights and refugees coming into the US and 4 of them.
I think people really underestimate the amount of hate people have for HRC. I mean, I am not a fan of her at all, BUT, I can look pragmatically at how she'd likely govern, and find scenarios where I could vote for her. I have been shocked by the level of vitriol for her by people I consider to be realistic, intelligent cons. Her policies, her relatively hawkish approach to foreign affairs matter not at all to them, because they think she is so flawed and corrupt. They can't see the forest for the tree.
I posted an anti-Trump article on FB, and my (wackjob) cousin only responded with, "Hillary is a criminal!"
The point wasn't to vote for Hillary. I've never even mentioned Hillary on FB at any point in time. The point is that Trump is scum.
I don't care if people don't want to vote for Hillary. Vote third party or do a write-in candidate if you can't bear to hold your nose and vote for her. But don't vote for Trump JUST because you don't like Hillary. Their vehement hatred of Hillary (and, really, I don't find her any worse than your run-of-the-mill politician) is blinding them to how awful Trump is.
Also has he spent any money on ads? Because it seems like all he does is go on TV shows and then dominate the news cycle for 24 hours. Rinse. Repeat.
Yes. I posted one here last week. The one with the black man who said he was voting for Trump because his son was killed by an illegal immigrant and Trump was going to get rid of them.
Also, I see several posters saying that the Trump supporters they know plan to vote for him because of his business acumen. Won't you all please share with them this article which outlines his many failings and discusses how he'd have roughly 2-3 times the net worth he has today if he'd let his inheritance ride in the stock market? I know it is unlikely to help, but worth a shot, nonetheless.
This is what kills me about the "businessman" argument. He's not a good businessman! He actually kind of sucks! You don't qualify as a good businessman if you start with $500 million and end up with $300 million! And he's well known not for being a good negotiator, but for getting his way by bullying and throwing his money around. That's not really something you can do with the North Koreans.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
Not all of his support, but a very large chunk of it.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
How does it break down? In Virgina he didn't win any of the areas in the urban corridor (so all dc metro). He won all the areas where the economy is in the toilet and jobs are minimal. So that speaks to lower education and income. Not sure how it breaks down elsewhere. I would be interested to see.
I do think he us speaking to blue collar workers that have likely suffered a lot job wise.
Yes. I posted one here last week. The one with the black man who said he was voting for Trump because his son was killed by an illegal immigrant and Trump was going to get rid of them.
Also, I see several posters saying that the Trump supporters they know plan to vote for him because of his business acumen. Won't you all please share with them this article which outlines his many failings and discusses how he'd have roughly 2-3 times the net worth he has today if he'd let his inheritance ride in the stock market? I know it is unlikely to help, but worth a shot, nonetheless.
This is what kills me about the "businessman" argument. He's not a good businessman! He actually kind of sucks! You don't qualify as a good businessman if you start with $500 million and end up with $300 million! And he's well known not for being a good negotiator, but for getting his way by bullying and throwing his money around. That's not really something you can do with the North Koreans.
I think Trump speaks to people solely concerned about money. They think that because Trump is rich, he will make them rich. He will build a wall to keep illegals from taling their money and jobs. He will cut all the taxes and make America great and rich. And I don't think it's just poor, dumb people buying into this bull. My parents are wealthy and college educated and are planning to vote for this clown, no matter how I try to change their minds. I believe that they think he will protect their money because he is a businessman. They would never admit it, but I see through it.
The Trump voters are no different than the Bernie voters voting based on money and what will get them the most free stuff - free college, free healthcare, free puppies and unicorns! Deep down they all are just serving their own greed and disguising it as wanting an outsider (because the insiders are careless with their money).
The Trump supporters don't care about anything else. If they did, they would realize he has no plan. If they were at all concerned about things like national security, education, or other social issues - especially from a conservative POV, they would be running from him.
This election has really just shown the greed of our citizens - rich, poor, educated or not. Being greedy and gullible crosses all socioeconomic barriers.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
Yeah, the exit polls do show that there's an education divide among the GOP and that's what is driving a large part of Trump's appeal, but I have had two IRL discussions with Trump supporters, and neither fit that demographic.
One holds two advanced degrees from prestigious universities, speaks a foreign language, lives in a major metropolitan area, and is well-travelled. He thinks Trump is what is needed to restore order to the GOP. He had a very long winded explanation for this that involved comparing him to Roman emperors and citing to political scientists.
After his soliloquy, I was like, "I think his appeal is just that he's just a racist." His response was that Hillary was a criminal, and that's when my friend decided her husband ought to busy himself putting the kids to bed, so I did not get to further probe his fucked up head.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
I have to agree. He can't pull in those kinds of numbers from one demographic alone. It may not be the case in every state, but I'm betting that's the case in several states.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
How does it break down? In Virgina he didn't win any of the areas in the urban corridor (so all dc metro). He won all the areas where the economy is in the toilet and jobs are minimal. So that speaks to lower education and income. Not sure how it breaks down elsewhere. I would be interested to see.
I do think he us speaking to blue collar workers that have likely suffered a lot job wise.
I lurk on a local politics board -- and maybe it's the same five people all posting the same thing over and over again, because it is anonymous -- but these don't seem like uneducated, poor white folks. Now, I know that is anecdata, but just reading the comments and support definitely opened my eyes to the possibility that there are people of means who like his message and support his bid for presidency.
Yeah the one person I know who is vocal supporter is well off. I am not sure about her education but her H is well educated. She stays home and her education has never come up. I'd guess she has at least an undergrad degree.
Post by sparrowsong on Mar 2, 2016 17:48:21 GMT -5
I'm afraid there are a lot of people for whom trump is a guilty pleasure. They are smart enough to keep their racist thoughts to themselves. They know liking trump and the stuff he says is not right in a polite "post racial" society. But secretly they agree with him and will vote for him as long as they are doing it privately and they themselves don't have to say out loud they want the same thing he does.
How does it break down? In Virgina he didn't win any of the areas in the urban corridor (so all dc metro). He won all the areas where the economy is in the toilet and jobs are minimal. So that speaks to lower education and income. Not sure how it breaks down elsewhere. I would be interested to see.
I do think he us speaking to blue collar workers that have likely suffered a lot job wise.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
Exactly. The Trump supporters I know are all upper-middle-class, college-educated.
I think people need to be realistic and admit that all of Trump's support isn't coming from poor uneducated white folks. That's what people want to believe, but the numbers he is getting say otherwise, IMO.
Exactly. The Trump supporters I know are all upper-middle-class, college-educated.
Here too, for the most part. One is Canadian. Go figure.
Every trump supporter I know are Christian Iraqi's they absolutely loathe Muslims, passionately hate them and everything they have done to their people. They want them gone done and out. That's why they all want trump, because they hate the same people and love Jesus.
My FIL loves trump he's like "he's going to stand up to China and show them who is boss!"
Post by imobviouslystaying on Mar 2, 2016 18:26:33 GMT -5
Ever last Trump supporter I know is a , middle class, nominally Christian, mid tier educated white person.
All of them.
They are part of the "make America great" brigade who talk like they've lost something vital in the last fifty years. Every one of them would say they grew up in a better world than their kids and grandchildren live in and don't even know or care how racist and fucking insulting that is.
Exactly. The Trump supporters I know are all upper-middle-class, college-educated.
Here too, for the most part. One is Canadian. Go figure.
sitting next to two right now at the bar. Well, one is Trump (upper middle class small business owners) and one is Cruz(lower middle class), but will vote Trump if he's the nominee. They hate HRC.
Post by penguingrrl on Mar 2, 2016 18:35:43 GMT -5
I know a Trump supporter. She lives across the street from me. Her husband works on Wall Street, they both have degrees, they make decent money, she's a SAHM. She told me that the world is just overly PC and it's refreshing to hear someone say what everyone is thinking. They call themselves Catholic and she claims to be a conservative Catholic but can't be bothered with regular church attendance and in her life doesn't show that she actually understands Jesus' teachings.
I'm certain my town is full of supporters. It has always skewed Republican and the people are nominally well educated but not terribly deep thinkers. And very privileged.
How does it break down? In Virgina he didn't win any of the areas in the urban corridor (so all dc metro). He won all the areas where the economy is in the toilet and jobs are minimal. So that speaks to lower education and income. Not sure how it breaks down elsewhere. I would be interested to see.
I do think he us speaking to blue collar workers that have likely suffered a lot job wise.