DUDE!Rage. I agree. you need to let her know so she can protect herself.
Morally I agree, but in real life, I would not do this. Sharing leadership communications with non-manager directly is a mistake that could make this turn around on you.
Notify HR. Keep the documentation and provide it to her if this isn't immediately and satisfactorily dealt with there (because presumably at that point, this company sucks anyway and risking your position is worth it).
No - there is nothing in this situation that would constitute an acceptable reason to fire someone. It was sent out publicly - and it is illegal. OP is well within her rights to make a fuss about this. And I imagine her HR department will be horrified.
Sorry. I know I would have been fired for sharing manager emails with non-managers, even ones this awful.
Dude. If I was fired for sharing that email with the woman, I'd be simultaneously calling Gloria Allred on speakerphone while triumphantly giving the middle finger on my way out the door and fantasizing about what I'd rename the company once I own it after the lawsuits have been settled.
No - there is nothing in this situation that would constitute an acceptable reason to fire someone. It was sent out publicly - and it is illegal. OP is well within her rights to make a fuss about this. And I imagine her HR department will be horrified.
Sorry. I know I would have been fired for sharing manager emails with non-managers, even ones this awful.
You would have been fired for sharing an e-mail in which a manager discusses plans to do something that will almost certainly lead to legal action against the company with HR?
Unless you, like, need to keep your job. But absolutely involve HR.
What? You think if you gave a hard copy of the email to the woman it would put your job in jeopardy?
At my job, there would absolutely be repercussions for notifying the employee. It is an HR matter and any employee inserting him/herself into the situation like that would not be welcome.
BUT, at my company, HR would handle this appropriately so that the employee would have zero negative impact from this. The manager would be gone. He's not only violating discrimination laws, he's disclosing medical information! (I'm not screaming HIPAA since it doesn't apply, but it's highly inappropriate)
No - there is nothing in this situation that would constitute an acceptable reason to fire someone. It was sent out publicly - and it is illegal. OP is well within her rights to make a fuss about this. And I imagine her HR department will be horrified.
Sorry. I know I would have been fired for sharing manager emails with non-managers, even ones this awful.
For my company, unless it has the confidentiality clause at the bottom we can print 1000 copies and toss to the wind.
confidentiality clause: "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, re-transmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. "
Sorry. I know I would have been fired for sharing manager emails with non-managers, even ones this awful.
You would have been fired for sharing an e-mail in which a manager discusses plans to do something that will almost certainly lead to legal action against the company with HR?
For sure. I'm surprised so many people are surprised here. Now, I would absolutely march into HR and keep tabs on this. I am not saying I'd let it go but there is a process and I've seen people, especially women, fired for less.
Eta: I'm only talking about not sharing with the admin who is the subject of his complaint. I'd be looking to get this asshole fired and sharing with HR immediately.
Sorry. I know I would have been fired for sharing manager emails with non-managers, even ones this awful.
You would have been fired for sharing an e-mail in which a manager discusses plans to do something that will almost certainly lead to legal action against the company with HR?
No not for sharing it with HR. She'd be fired for sharing it with the employee because that opens the company up to a lawsuit. HR should get a crack at handling this appropriately first.
After that, all bets would be off for me, even as a leader.
I'm imagining the joint discrimination against a protected class/wrongful termination lawsuit that would follow if there were repercusssions about this, lol.
Aren't half of those seminars about discrimination, terrorism, etc. summed up by - if you see something, say something? How is HR supposed to find out about something like this if no one forwards the email to them? From OP's initial message, he sent this email to a group of managers for feedback. Someone needed to speak up, and I'm glad OP did.
Ugh, sorry, not sure why I'm so fired up about this. I hate companies acting like big brother, and it sounds like some of you work in that environment.
Post by rageragerage on Jun 7, 2016 10:14:09 GMT -5
Let HR handle it, do not print and give to the admin, that is terrible advice. Now if HR does nothing and the admin does get fired and the jerk manager doesn't, then that is a whole new ballgame.
Let HR handle it, do not print and give to the admin, that is terrible advice. Now if HR does nothing and the admin does get fired and the jerk manager doesn't, then that is a whole new ballgame.
And fuck this guy. What an idiot.
This. There's no need to give it to the employee yet.
You would have been fired for sharing an e-mail in which a manager discusses plans to do something that will almost certainly lead to legal action against the company with HR?
No not for sharing it with HR. She'd be fired for sharing it with the employee because that opens the company up to a lawsuit. HR should get a crack at handling this appropriately first.
After that, all bets would be off for me, even as a leader.
No, the douche waffle opened the company up to a lawsuit.
But I agree with allowing HR to handle it first. IF HR does not do the right thing THEN I would totally hand the email over to the woman. Job be damned because I don't want to work for a company who allows discrimination against women.
We have two HR people in the office. One of them is supposed to be off today. She just walked in. Her office is 4 doors down from mine. My boss (and douche canoes boss) followed her in.
I think Shit's about to get real.
Clearly you weren't the only person upset by the communication.
I would still speak with HR, on the off-chance that this isn't what they are discussing, but if your HR person is in on her day off? Yeah, I suspect they have this covered. Save
I would not expect a reply until this is handled. Sounds like HR who was in the office got it and was appropriately concerned and called in other HR person and they are dealing with it. Cleanest way to deal with this is take the e-mail talk to the bosses and then call in dude and fire him. Involving OP any further at this point just makes it messier better to deal with the situation and then confirm that the problem was handled and he is no longer working there.
I'm imagining the joint discrimination against a protected class/wrongful termination lawsuit that would follow if there were repercusssions about this, lol.
Aren't half of those seminars about discrimination, terrorism, etc. summed up by - if you see something, say something? How is HR supposed to find out about something like this if no one forwards the email to them? From OP's initial message, he sent this email to a group of managers for feedback. Someone needed to speak up, and I'm glad OP did.
Ugh, sorry, not sure why I'm so fired up about this. I hate companies acting like big brother, and it sounds like some of you work in that environment.
But I don't think a single person is saying OP should not have told HR, right? Or that they would get in trouble for telling HR?
They're saying that telling the woman about the email before HR has a chance to address it can cause a bigger mess and potentially get her in trouble for breaking protocols so better to just let HR handle it.
An acquaintance was pissed when she found out I was pregnant with #2 and she was like, "I CAN'T believe you lied to me about having more kids!". She asked us a while ago before I was even pregnant if we wanted more kids and we said something like "not now".
I'm imagining the joint discrimination against a protected class/wrongful termination lawsuit that would follow if there were repercusssions about this, lol.
Aren't half of those seminars about discrimination, terrorism, etc. summed up by - if you see something, say something? How is HR supposed to find out about something like this if no one forwards the email to them? From OP's initial message, he sent this email to a group of managers for feedback. Someone needed to speak up, and I'm glad OP did.
Ugh, sorry, not sure why I'm so fired up about this. I hate companies acting like big brother, and it sounds like some of you work in that environment.
But I don't think a single person is saying OP shouldn't tell HR, right? Or that they would get in trouble for telling HR?
They're saying that telling the woman about the email before HR has a chance to address it can cause a bigger mess and potentially get her in trouble for breaking protocols so better to just let HR handle it.
Yes, what you're saying makes sense. I amend my answer.
BUT if HR didn't handle it properly, then I'd make so many, many copies of that email and be all Regina George:
The way women support other women in the workforce is through mentoring and sponsorship. (Since notifying HR has been covered and handled). So the only other thing I would do is get to know her a bit, find out about her career aspirations, make sure she's not a flake and offer to mentor her if she's interested. Or at least be available if she wants to talk/career advice etc.
I wouldn't share the email with the admin now, but I would be somewhat tempted to try to get her personal contact info in the event HR doesn't do anything and suddenly the admin is no longer working for your company.