Who are you voting for? Poll

[jamich]

Jul 22, 2016 9:18:28 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

HRC, but I'm convinced Trump is going to win this election.

I am too. 
I wish I could be more optimistic, but there are just too many awful people out there who now have an unapologetic racist, misogynistic, xenophobic asshole representing them.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 10:23:51 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

Jul 22, 2016 9:59:56 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Thank you for answering.

As to the bolded, if you think Trump will actually surround himself with smart people, please read this article: www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

And if you think Clinton's moral compass is non-existent, is there such a thing as a negative moral compass? Because that appears to be what Trump has. He is threatening anyone who speaks out against him: www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-threatens-the-ghostwriter-of-the-art-of-the-deal

That is some totalitarian government shit right there.

Thank you. I almost get the staying home on election day if you really can't stomach HRC. But to claim that Donald Trump has more of a moral compass than she does is absolutely baffling. The man basically threw a Nazi rally for three days. 

He said "As president, I will do everything in my power to protect LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology,” but, you know, nothing about protecting the LGBTQ community from violence and oppression of the domestic variety.  He said he would protect us from all the MEXICAN MURDERERS wreaking havoc on our nation but then said he supports private gun ownership.  Can I get a fact check about how many illegal immigrants have killed people without guns?

[TamiTaylor]

I know my state will go Trump which is sickening. I hate the number of people that I have heard say that will vote for Trump because they don't want HRC to win. NOTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY LIKE/AGREE WITH/SUPPORT/ETC ABOUT TRUMP HIMSELF OR HIS POLICIES. Just that their vote is to keep the other candidate from winning. THAT IS NOT A REASON TO VOTE FOR HIM. It's sad that this is what our election process has come to in our country.

[CrazyLucky]

I'm voting for Hillary. Not holding my nose, voting for the lesser of two evils, or voting against Trump. I am voting FOR HILLARY. I think she will do an excellent job and she is by far the most qualified candidate.

[hopecounts]

Jul 22, 2016 10:23:36 GMT -5 cubed said:

Jul 22, 2016 9:53:27 GMT -5 ae82 said:

I’ll bite with an AE—but I will not get into an all-day debate over it.
I’m voting for Trump because it’s a vote against HRC. I would LOVE to see a woman become president, however, the thought of HRC as the first female president makes me sick. I want the first female president to be someone that my daughters can look up to and I just don’t feel that HRC is worthy of that sort of respect and admiration.
Her moral compass is non-existent and she’s untrustworthy. I don’t feel that the best interest of the country is her agenda. Despite the results of the investigations and the rulings with regard to HRC’s indiscretions I personally feel her actions were wrong.
Secondly, the political climate of the US is in shambles. The divides that have been placed between the two parties makes it impossible for any sort of forward progress. My hope with such a radical candidate like Trump is that it would make both sides see that extremism either left or right, is not the right answer for our country.
The ability to make sustainable progress in our country is dependent on re-establishing some semblance of equilibrium and that can’t be done without a catalyst to swing the pendulum in the other direction.

I also think that Trump's business sense makes him a lesser of the two evils candidate. Despite his lack of experience, I think he's smart enough to surround himself with support staff that are subject matter experts and capable of running their areas--which I think would also be a positive change for our government. From an economic perspective, I think he will be least damaging.

With all of that said, I can understand all of the Trump hate. Some of the shit that comes out of his mouth is downright embarrassing. So, I guess I'm voting for Trump because with these two candidates the next 4 years will be shit either way and I'm voting for the one that I think will (indirectly) spur change within our systems.

He has flat out said he used his corporate bankruptcies as a tool and a business strategy. How can this business sense translate into anything outside of bankruptcy for our country (and worldwide financial failure)? His daddy bailed him out of TWO bankruptcies and he still owes money to a Prince in Saudi Arabia. YES, that Saudi Arabia. He will bankrupt this country in his first 100 days. 

fund. 

He as much as admitted that he planned to use bankruptcy to 'rescue' the country until he was told that the constitution prohibits that.

And how the fuck is that not a conflict of interest?
I don't see how people miss how potentially dangerous he is.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 9:42:05 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jul 22, 2016 9:26:33 GMT -5 geek96 said:

DH came home last night and told me the lone woman on his job of 60 guys said if it's between shit and diarrhea she's going to pick shit. He said most of the ones he's friendly with agreed. They don't really like her but they really don't like trump more.

Can I say how much it pisses me off that people continue to act like Hillary is just barely less terrible than Trump? AGH!!!

I get that people may not like her. They may disagree with some of her policies. They may find certain things about her personality off-putting. Whatever.

But she is an accomplished lawyer. She was a pro-active First Lady who attempted to get healthcare reform passed and succeeded in getting a children's health insurance program passed. She served in the United States Senate for eight years. She served as Secretary of State for four years. Her knowledge of policy, both foreign and domestic, outstrips Trump's in ways too great for words.

They're not even in the same galaxy of bad. Clinton has normal politician flaws but is supremely qualified for the job. Heck, former RNC chairman Michael Steele said as much on Tuesday. Trump, however, is utterly unqualified. He doesn't know anything about governing, and the worst part is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

And with maybe the exception of Huckabee and Ben Carson, I'd say the same thing about any of the failed Republican candidates. Rubio, Bush, Kasich, even Ted "most punchable face" Cruz. They understand governing, and they understand the issues. That doesn't mean I'd want to vote for them, just as I can understand why someone wouldn't vote for HRC. But NONE of them are in the same league of terrible as Trump.

This line of argument just drives me bonkers because we are talking about one of the most qualified women ever and one of the least qualified men ever. Even if one despises everything Clinton stands for, talking about them like they're equal is some sexist fucking bullshit.

This. This has been driving me insane IRL. I would be proud to have HRC has a president, but even if she's not your top choice, I just don't see how a sane person can compare her to Trump.  I think it's a line that people are feeding themselves to justify voting for Trump and make themselves feel better. That's the only think I can think of.

She was the Secretary of State for crying out loud, and a good one at that.  People so desperately want to malign her, and the best anyone has come up with is a) having a private email server; 2) Benghazi (omg, enough already); and 3) her husband's infidelity from 20-30 years ago.  When otherwise reasonably intelligent people draw a false equivalence between her and Trump, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. There was an excellent article circulating that meticulously dismantled the "liar" label, but I can't remember who wrote it or where it was published.

My personal political views are a little left of HRC, and I voted for Obama in 2008.  However, I have always respected her.  Like someone else said, no politician is perfect (because they're human, too). It actually makes me a little emotional to think of her being the first woman president, and my daughter growing up only knowing a world where a woman has been the president of the US.

[bunnymendelbaum]

Jul 22, 2016 10:16:29 GMT -5 yellowbrkrd said:

HRC

Also, for those that think a "business man" would make a good president, take a look at what Governor Snyder did for Michigan *cough* Flint *cough*

Don't forget that BS bill for Detroit Public Schools he signed too!

[redheadbaker]

ae82, if you're so confident in your vote for Trump, why did you need to make an AE to admit it?

[ECB]

I really REALLY want to know the thought process behind Trump. As many of you have already mentioned - I want an argument that doesn't mention Benghazi or e-mails. And if you're going to say she lies and has no moral compass, PLEASE explain to me how Trump is ANY different.

Especially when you mix in his temperament, volatility, and racisim, misogyny, etc.

[kaycee]

Jul 22, 2016 10:32:27 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

I'm voting for Hillary. Not holding my nose, voting for the lesser of two evils, or voting against Trump. I am voting FOR HILLARY. I think she will do an excellent job and she is by far the most qualified candidate.

I feel this way. I am also proud to take my DD with me to vote for her.

Confession: I will also add that I feel this way and it is the first time I've voted for a democrat for president. (I grew up with a 24/7 Fox News family that will disown you if you aren't republican, so it took awhile to realize I didn't actually agree with them).

[TamiTaylor]

Jul 22, 2016 10:41:20 GMT -5 cubed said:

Jul 22, 2016 10:29:46 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

I know my state will go Trump which is sickening. I hate the number of people that I have heard say that will vote for Trump because they don't want HRC to win. NOTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY LIKE/AGREE WITH/SUPPORT/ETC ABOUT TRUMP HIMSELF OR HIS POLICIES. Just that their vote is to keep the other candidate from winning. THAT IS NOT A REASON TO VOTE FOR HIM. It's sad that this is what our election process has come to in our country.

This is exactly why I feel like people need to go and vote. There's enough of this type of support for Trump that we really cannot afford to have people feeling like they can stay at home and not vote for someone else. It's an awful dual party system, but right now that is what we are facing and people can't ignore it. 

I completely agree. And over the course of American history, other political parties have disappeared. Look at the Whigs, The Know Nothings, Progressives, etc.
eta: I am hoping for a shake up in the 2 party system or at the very least a revaluation or exodus of the GOP. I'm saying that as a (former) Republican.

[karinothing]

Yeah, I don't get how Trump is suddenly this moral ideal. He is untrustworthy (he lies constantly). He also is under investigation for defrauding a ton of people (so again not trust worthy). And I don't get how one would think he is moral at all, pretty much every thing that comes out of his mouth is immoral.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 10:47:32 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Yeah, I don't get how Trump is suddenly this moral ideal. He is untrustworthy (he lies constantly). He also is under investigation for defrauding a ton of people (so again not trust worthy). And I don't get how one would think he is moral at all, pretty much every thing that comes out of his mouth is immoral.

Maybe ask his third wife! She never lies.

[ae82]

Ok--I said I wouldn't be on here all day debating, but I did want to respond to a few things up.


-I don't think Trump is better/more moral/better qualified than Clinton--to me they're neck and neck on the shit-o-meter. :-P In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.

-And I don't want my daughters looking up to Trump (nor do I think they would), but I think the draw of a female president would be tougher to dissuade.

-Typically voting 3rd party is essentially not voting. If I can be convinced that will be different this election I could be swayed.

-Thanks to those who answered respectfully, asked thoughtful questions and provided reading material. To those questioning my decision to use an AE-, if you're entering the lion's den, it's safer to be a cob of corn than a piece of meat.

[Deleted]

Trump accused Ted Cruz's dad of being involved in the JFK assassination.

SO TRUSTWORTHY!

[TamiTaylor]

Jul 22, 2016 10:47:32 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Yeah, I don't get how Trump is suddenly this moral ideal. He is untrustworthy (he lies constantly). He also is under investigation for defrauding a ton of people (so again not trust worthy). And I don't get how one would think he is moral at all, pretty much every thing that comes out of his mouth is immoral.

Don't forget the rape charges, abuse allegations from the 1st wife, and the ties to that billionaire pedophile.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Ok--I said I wouldn't be on here all day debating, but I did want to respond to a few things up.


-I don't think Trump is better/more moral/better qualified than Clinton--to me they're neck and neck on the shit-o-meter. :-P In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.

-And I don't want my daughters looking up to Trump (nor do I think they would), but I think the draw of a female president would be tougher to dissuade.

-Typically voting 3rd party is essentially not voting. If I can be convinced that will be different this election I could be swayed.

-Thanks to those who answered respectfully, asked thoughtful questions and provided reading material. To those questioning my decision to use an AE-, if you're entering the lion's den, it's safer to be a cob of corn than a piece of meat.

Since you're still playing, I would like to know what your response is to the two New Yorker articles that I posted? Are you comfortable with a man with no attention span being in charge of foreign affairs? Are you bothered by the Putin-esque way that Trump tries to go after any and everybody who criticizes him? (I'll pre-emptively say that any response that Tony Schwartz is just speaking out for the money is not compelling to me because he has vowed to donate all 2016 royalties he receives from Art of the Deal to charity.)

Does it bother you that things he said last night - things like law and order will be restored on January 20 and he alone can fix this - sound like the things that totalitarian dictators say?

[hopecounts]

Jul 22, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Ok--I said I wouldn't be on here all day debating, but I did want to respond to a few things up.


-I don't think Trump is better/more moral/better qualified than Clinton--to me they're neck and neck on the shit-o-meter. :-P In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.

-And I don't want my daughters looking up to Trump (nor do I think they would), but I think the draw of a female president would be tougher to dissuade.

-Typically voting 3rd party is essentially not voting. If I can be convinced that will be different this election I could be swayed.

-Thanks to those who answered respectfully, asked thoughtful questions and provided reading material. To those questioning my decision to use an AE-, if you're entering the lion's den, it's safer to be a cob of corn than a piece of meat.

1) it won't, the R's will double down on his crap and that's if he doesn't get us into WW3.
see Hitler and Kaiser Wilhelm for how damaging narcissistic fascist like rulers can be in even a short time span it's not a coincidence that both WWs were caused by men who were narcissists.

3) this year the Libertarian candidate actually has a shot at making an Impact and more importantly getting enough support to make them a serious party in 2020. It may be worth looking at if you are really voting based on wanting to shake up the system
They are on 50 ballots so if they get a large enough percentage of votes it starts to entitle them to certain things next go around.

[ae82]

Jul 22, 2016 10:54:51 GMT -5 @natariru said:

I'm going to need to know if I'm usually pleasant toward ae82 under her regular name. Do we normally interact?

Then I will decide how to respond.

I'm more of a serial lurker/occasional poster. So I'm likely not on your radar.  

[redheadbaker]

Jul 22, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5 ae82 said:

-I don't think Trump is better/more moral/better qualified than Clinton--to me they're neck and neck on the shit-o-meter. :-P In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.

Please explain how things will change when we will be stuck with whomever he nominates to the Supreme Court for a lifetime. 

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5 ae82 said:

 In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.  

Oh sure, I mean what can go wrong in 4 years?

[blueberry10]

I'm voting for HRC. I typically vote D.

I've always tried to respect those who have differing political opinions from mine - particularly some acquaintances and family members on my IL's side who have been strongly R in the past. This year I'm having a much harder time doing that.

[ae82]

Jul 22, 2016 10:52:16 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jul 22, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Ok--I said I wouldn't be on here all day debating, but I did want to respond to a few things up.


-I don't think Trump is better/more moral/better qualified than Clinton--to me they're neck and neck on the shit-o-meter. :-P In fact, Trump may be worse, but my strategy (which I understand is a unpopular choice) is that hitting rock bottom will spur change.

-And I don't want my daughters looking up to Trump (nor do I think they would), but I think the draw of a female president would be tougher to dissuade.

-Typically voting 3rd party is essentially not voting. If I can be convinced that will be different this election I could be swayed.

-Thanks to those who answered respectfully, asked thoughtful questions and provided reading material. To those questioning my decision to use an AE-, if you're entering the lion's den, it's safer to be a cob of corn than a piece of meat.

Since you're still playing, I would like to know what your response is to the two New Yorker articles that I posted? Are you comfortable with a man with no attention span being in charge of foreign affairs? Are you bothered by the Putin-esque way that Trump tries to go after any and everybody who criticizes him? (I'll pre-emptively say that any response that Tony Schwartz is just speaking out for the money is not compelling to me because he has vowed to donate all 2016 royalties he receives from Art of the Deal to charity.)

Does it bother you that things he said last night - things like law and order will be restored on January 20 and he alone can fix this - sound like the things that totalitarian dictators say?

Saving the reading material for later as I'm working:-)  

I actually took that quote to mean that "I'm the person for the job" --but I can certainly see your take on it.

[redheadbaker]

ae82, if you're only an occasional poster, why hide behind an AE?

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 11:02:02 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Jul 22, 2016 10:52:16 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Since you're still playing, I would like to know what your response is to the two New Yorker articles that I posted? Are you comfortable with a man with no attention span being in charge of foreign affairs? Are you bothered by the Putin-esque way that Trump tries to go after any and everybody who criticizes him? (I'll pre-emptively say that any response that Tony Schwartz is just speaking out for the money is not compelling to me because he has vowed to donate all 2016 royalties he receives from Art of the Deal to charity.)

Does it bother you that things he said last night - things like law and order will be restored on January 20 and he alone can fix this - sound like the things that totalitarian dictators say?

Saving the reading material for later as I'm working:-)  

I actually took that quote to mean that "I'm the person for the job" --but I can certainly see your take on it.

While I'm badgering you, I want to know how you can support a candidate who is talking about not honoring our NATO obligations.

I mean...that's kind of unfathomable to me.

[CheeringCharm]

You know what scares me about Trump? Is that his supporters persist even after you point out the many inconsistencies in his policies and even his own story. He's not a good businessman. He's filed for bankruptcy how many times? He's not a real Republican with conservative "family values." He has never shown evidence of caring about the working class in his life. His entire career has been about enriching himself. But I don't think they really care about any of that stuff. I think they see a vote for Trump as a big fuck you to the "elites" who they hate: the political elites, the "liberal media" elites, the 1%, the highly educated professional class etc. etc. It's very much a way for them to say "I know you look down on me and you can't tell me what to do." There is no reasoning with that kind of emotion. When you get that angry about something, you will cut your nose off to spite your face. They will vote for Trump even when it is not in their own interest to do so.

[ae82]

Jul 22, 2016 11:02:54 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

ae82 , if you're only an occasional poster, why hide behind an AE?

I enjoy most on this board and feel I can interact respectfully despite having opposing views--but others on this board can be brutal.  


If I come in here 2 months from now needing to know if I should be concerned why my kid's poop is blue, I'll be told it's because I voted for Trump and won't get legit advice.

[lauren170]

ae82 - rock bottom would be nuclear war. Trump has an ego and need for constant validation. The guy is impulsive and jumps to conclusions. If challenged by North Korea or Russia, I would be very, very scared of his reaction. Rock bottom is not a place you want to vote to go.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 11:11:19 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Jul 22, 2016 11:02:54 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

ae82 , if you're only an occasional poster, why hide behind an AE?

I enjoy most on this board and feel I can interact respectfully despite having opposing views--but others on this board can be brutal.  


If I come in here 2 months from now needing to know if I should be concerned why my kid's poop is blue, I'll be told it's because I voted for Trump and won't get legit advice.

It's blueberries. Always blueberries.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2016 11:11:19 GMT -5 ae82 said:

Jul 22, 2016 11:02:54 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

ae82 , if you're only an occasional poster, why hide behind an AE?

I enjoy most on this board and feel I can interact respectfully despite having opposing views--but others on this board can be brutal.  


If I come in here 2 months from now needing to know if I should be concerned why my kid's poop is blue, I'll be told it's because I voted for Trump and won't get legit advice.

To be fair, it might be because you voted for Trump after Trump appoints one of his cronies to head up the EPA and we are all drinking poisoned water.

Only kinda half kidding.