This is no longer about post about cute kids

[bunnymendelbaum]

I wasn't going to comment because I haven't read the whole thread, but I've read enough and I'm teaching my girls to speak up when they see/hear bullshit like this, so I need to do the same. That was seriously some bullshit. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean it/didn't think it through. That's the f'king point. I'm challenging myself to do better. To be better. To think about my words and actions. This bullshit and some of the insane comments in the news this week are making me crazy. Because you know what is more important than a pledge or flag or anthem?! PEOPLE. JUSTICE. EQUALITY.

[bowies]

Aug 31, 2016 7:07:01 GMT -5 vtdiamond said:

Jesus christ, I didn't come into this post because I figured it was a bunch of my kid is cute bs. But holy crap, I am appalled by the offensive things that were said here.

Same. I'll be taking the time today to see who said what. Same shit, different day.

[pinotgrig]

Aug 31, 2016 6:47:38 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

Sorry to see @natariru and @wandering go.

Me, too.

This is my first time setting foot in this thread since it was posted since I figured 90% of the responses would be yeses, 10% would be self (kid?) deprecating, and then a slew of pips. I guess I forgot to account for the racist responses.

Also, can we get the hot topic notification back? When these things blow up I never see them since I only gbcn from my phone on the mobile site.

[Deleted]

I hadn't come in here because I thought it was just a generic post about how naturally, we all find our kids to be adorable.

I'm so disappointed, angry, and sad to see a comment like that.

Eta: wait, what? Posters have left now too. I haven't read through this entire post. Looks like I need to go read through it all.

Eta again: I'm sorry to see @natariru and @wandering go, but I understand why they have left. It now feels like the same shit, different day around here. Which was fine when it was about uncrustables or some shit, but it's not okay when it's about the cycle of racism, microaggressions, followed by a call out, fake apology and deactivation. No one on this board can claim they don't know better by now so all that is left is to actually DO better people!!!

[anna7602]

Aug 31, 2016 7:43:34 GMT -5 bowies said:

Aug 31, 2016 7:07:01 GMT -5 vtdiamond said:

Jesus christ, I didn't come into this post because I figured it was a bunch of my kid is cute bs. But holy crap, I am appalled by the offensive things that were said here.

Same. I'll be taking the time today to see who said what. Same shit, different day.

This. But I feel like I have to note that I was here or I'll get added to TamiTaylor's call out list, despite the fact that I am just so fucking sick of reading the asshattery that I have my aneurysm  via private conversation with other MMMers v. writing some BS here that never changes anything anyway. Nihilistic? Defeated? Yes, I'm feeling those things right now. 

[genet313]

I agree whole heartedly that it's no ones job to educate anybody else on the board about their own racism, prejudices, aggressions, inappropriate behavior, etc. And I'm sorry it often falls to the WOC on the board to do that. And I agree whole heartedly that, if they choose to take the time to do it, it shouldn't have to be with kid gloves.

But i wish we (the collective we) could find a way to educate that didn't end up in the offending posters getting defensive, throwing out half hearted apologies, learning nothing and GBCNing. And then we also lose WOC because they're sick of being the educators and sick of confronting this over and over again. I will admit that sometimes, as a white woman, I am afraid to speak up or educate someone else because I don't actually have WOC perspective or experience. Sure I can call someone out for saying something egregious but is my call out meaningful? Is it enough? I don't know. I also don't know if I could even formulate an appropriate response to educate. So WOC, please know that I value your responses and I appreciate your efforts. It's helped educate me personally and I think made the board a better place. Personal stories of racist behaviors directed towel are you and your children are heartbreaking but also enlightening. And educating, which is the most important thing because education is the only way to meaningfully change behavior and understanding.

@natariru you will be missed. PM me if you ever want to inhale a CF bread basket and I will be there. With extra butter.

[ssmjlm]

I apologize for not posting until now. I saw the page count, but didn't click when I checked in yesterday after lunch because I figured it was a ton of kid photos.

The women on this board have taught myself and I know others so much about race and racism. I'm saddened to lose some valuable members of this community.

[shelbyann]

JFC. Again?

I saw the length of this and feared it would be something like this.

The only constructive thing I can think of to add is that we white people (especially me) have got to be quicker, firmer, whatever about calling this crap out. Like we need a zero tolerance policy for such remarks.

Sorry I missed all of this. I will miss you @natariru.

[miamigirl]

I posted yesterday and didn't come back to the thread until now.

I'm really sorry that this keeps happening. It's so disappointing.

[TamiTaylor]

Aug 31, 2016 7:59:09 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Aug 31, 2016 7:43:34 GMT -5 bowies said:

Same. I'll be taking the time today to see who said what. Same shit, different day.

This. But I feel like I have to note that I was here or I'll get added to TamiTaylor's call out list, despite the fact that I am just so fucking sick of reading the asshattery that I have my aneurysm  via private conversation with other MMMers v. writing some BS here that never changes anything anyway. Nihilistic? Defeated? Yes, I'm feeling those things right now. 

My intent is not to create a laundry list of names. I would not think to call you out I've seen you in threads.

[cilantro]

I truly thought this was just ten pages or so of showing off kids and didn't open again until now. Ugh, that was gross. Sorry to the WOC who had to read that.

[bcv513]

Holy crap, I thought this was just pages of kid pictures. I am so sorry to the wonderful, smart, thoughtful POC who have to deal with this bullshit every day

[anna7602]

TamiTaylor, I just don't see the point of saying "person x, where are you?" Either someone wants to say something meaningful or they don't, you can't force that.

[timorousbeastie]

Yesterday I came into this thread intending to share a story about this bitch who tried telling me at my brother's funeral of all places that her kid was cuter than mine. Then I read the thread, and just felt so defeated, and left the thread. I can't even imagine how the POC feel, having to deal with this shit both on the board and IRL, who don't have the luxury of ignoring the problem because it is all around them and affects them so personally. I am so sorry.

@natariru, you will be dearly missed. You have always come across as so very witty and smart and just an absolutely wonderful person. I selfishly hope that one day you will come back, but I do not blame you one bit for distancing yourself. No one should have to stay around a group of people who continue to fail so very much.

[longtimenopost]

I do want to say that I am truly sorry for my words. It's never okay to tell people how they are allowed to react after being insulted and I see I did just that. The irony is that originally my comments were directed at the responses of white posters. I'm glad jennyanydots called out cookiemoster so it wasn't left to POC to do, yet again. But so often after an act of stupidity, white posters come in droves not to provide support to POC, but to basically say "xxx was here and I'm not a racist." As if they have never or could never say anything just as stupid. That's where the "stressed out mother" came from. Like, I know I could make a similar mistake (and did) despite trying to be better. You know you could make a similar mistake as well, so let's talk about why this keeps happening? I can't speak for awkwardpenguin, but that was my original point. Then I got defensive and stupid. Again, I apologize.

[Deleted]

WOC - I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed that I'm not better at recognizing these aggressions until someone else points them out. I'm sorry for not doing a better job of having your back. I hate that I can't find the right words when I do see something offensive. Selfishly, I'm terrified that I'm not equipped to both advocate for my bi-racial sons, and simultaneously worried that I'm doing a shitty job preparing them to be good allies, given their relative privilege. And at the end of the day, I know this is nothing compared to the burden carried by POC.

[anna7602]

Aug 31, 2016 9:26:17 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

You know, I was thinking about something else.

When invino made her "ethnic families" comment, it was pointed out nicely (maybe that was because that comment was not on the Aryan baby level this stuff was, but I truly just wanted her to know it was an uncomfortable term for many people). People still answered her questions and gave her advice. She apologized and everyone was fine.

But she still got all white fragility and left the next day, after we all thought it was over. And I don't think cookiemonster is going to leave - I think she is truly going to evaluate herself and do better. Others have been flamed and taken it and moved on.

So clearly, the way it is brought up is not determinative of whether or not people will learn. It's about the person who committed the mistake and whether or not they want to learn. Let's remember that the next time we want to instinctively plead for people to be nice.

I am still ragingly pissed off at myself for "being nice" to invino given her later actions. My first instinct at the time was to say "Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME with this "non-American" bullshit?" But I sat with that thought for a few minutes and decided my message may make it through more effectively if I used a different tone/tactic. And now I feel like a world-class moron for thinking that it matters how you say something. Some people don't want to check themselves or reflect or change and will get defensive and buckle down no matter how you say it. I should know this already from real life.

[bex]

I don't remember the invino stuff at all. I must have completely missed it. But I think she is back, and it appears Cookie has deactivated.

[Deleted]

I didn't post when I saw this last night because my thoughts had been covered, but I want to just add to the chorus of saying that it's not ok and I'm glad jennyanddots called it out. I literally didn't see the comment (reading while on sedating meds makes for poor concentration) until J called it out. Thanks for recognizing and calling out ridiculousness.

[jeaniebueller]

I seriously thought this post was 14 pages of kid pics and just opened it about a half hour ago. Sorry to see that a few favorite people have left the boards (meaning @wandering and @natariu), but I totally understand

[AmyRI]

I was wondering how a "my kid is the cutest" thread got to 14 pages... and I feel sick that this is how it got here.

I don't often chime in on race-related posts, but I do my best to learn from each and every one of them since I'm a privileged white woman married to a privileged white guy raising our biological children who are all privileged and white. To the WOC, spouses of POC, and parents of children of color, please know that I appreciate your presence and I'm sorry you have to put up with shit like this. I hope that all of these discussions, as awful as they are, do result in meaningful change... although only time will tell, I suppose.

[countthestars]

Aug 31, 2016 9:26:17 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

You know, I was thinking about something else.

When invino made her "ethnic families" comment, it was pointed out nicely (maybe that was because that comment was not on the Aryan baby level this stuff was, but I truly just wanted her to know it was an uncomfortable term for many people). People still answered her questions and gave her advice. She apologized and everyone was fine.

But she still got all white fragility and left the next day, after we all thought it was over. And I don't think cookiemonster is going to leave - I think she is truly going to evaluate herself and do better. Others have been flamed and taken it and moved on.

So clearly, the way it is brought up is not determinative of whether or not people will learn. It's about the person who committed the mistake and whether or not they want to learn. Let's remember that the next time we want to instinctively plead for people to be nice.

She's gone.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHH  &*)$#^*(&^@#&*(@^

[rugbywife]

You know, as much as I regret it when people deactivate rather than re-evaluating themselves, I regret it more when POC no longer feel welcome here.

[anna7602]

@kirkette, bat signal is a different thing and is appreciated.

"Nice people, why don't you sayyyyyyy something" with specific tags seems counterproductive.

[lo]

Wow, just wow...

My jaw was seriously hanging open as I read this thread! I am white, my kid is white but I sure felt offended about the BHBE crap, so I can't imagine how the WOC felt. So hurtful! I think it sucks that a least 3 awesome women left this board because I love reading their posts! Sucks.

[water*drop]

Aug 31, 2016 8:54:29 GMT -5 longtimenopost said:

You know you could make a similar mistake as well, so let's talk about why this keeps happening?

I get this, but I feel like this is where we have to make a conscious effort to constantly check ourselves until checking ourselves becomes so ingrained that it's automatic.If we truly want to do better, we can't get lazy about checking ourselves when we get busy or whatever. I feel like falling back on that as a reason is disrespectful to POC. 

That's not to say I'm perfect. I'm far, far, far from it, and I don't handle every situation in the correct way. But we're always going to be busy and stressed, and using that as a reason to put off doing the work on ourselves - to reflect and be self-aware - just doesn't sit well with me. 

[dancetheblues]

I don't "go here", but I opened this thread to see pictures of cute kids. I quickly progressed from embarrassment (for white idiots in general) to disbelief and then to rage. FUCK these idiots who think they should get some kind of "adjustment period" or "free pass" before they're called out on their racism. If you need that, then you simply ARE a racist and what you are looking to learn is how to hide it. I apologize to all WOC here on behalf of (too many) of my race. 

[kangaroo11]

WTF is this shit? I skip a couple days and everything goes to crap. Why must it always come to this? Sigh.

[awkwardpenguin]

Part of my point, which was not well conveyed, is that it is very easy to overlook how many people read that comment and didn't immediately realize there was something off about it. Or automatically assigned a "she must not have meant it that way" meaning to it and moved on, because that is easier. I know I did the latter, and I'm sure I'm not alone. The fact that I initially brushed off an offensive comment is deeply troubling to me, and I want to be able to explore that, examine myself, and do better. But it's also really hard to do, and I'm not sure how to do it in a way that doesn't cause people hurt. I want to be able to talk about that, but maybe it is work I need to be doing on my own.

I never said people should get a free pass on racism. I don't believe that, and on further reflection I would not want to be told how to feel or react to something hurtful. It is very important to me that racism within our community is addressed and I've stayed engaged in race discussions even when it's been difficult.

[osulori]

I didn't open this post beyond the first few replies because I figured it was just a regular "look how cute my kid is!" post, then got busy at work and at home last night and...yeah. Having caught up somewhat, my jaw is on the proverbial floor reading the offensive crap posted. Bonus points for certain hair/eye color? Are you kidding me right now?

@natariru, I wish you wouldn't go but understand why. You'll be missed