What White Posters Can Do

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 2, 2016 17:17:33 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

As the collective GBCN group, most people had agreed that banning is not what we are about, I thought.

I agree that we are pretty good about running people off in cases where it is called for and I don't think we should be making rules about who to ban, since we have handled case by case.

It is an open community and that's how it was planned.


Banning has been used in particularly heinous harassment.

Yet, Booby's and V's harassment of @kirkette wasn't banned. But Celiacmom who had lied (grossly) but had not currently done anything to posters here was IP banned with in a few hours. Do see the message that sends to WOC here?

[aspentosh]

Sept 2, 2016 16:29:44 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Sept 2, 2016 15:26:38 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

See E below in the ProBoards terms of service.  WE just need to act on it. 

18. OBJECTIONABLE CONTENT

You represent and warrant that you shall not use the Website or Services to upload, post, transmit, display, perform or distribute any content, information or materials that: (a) are libelous, defamatory, abusive, or threatening, excessively violent, harassing, obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, or pornographic; (b) constitute child pornography; (c) solicit personal information from or exploit in a sexual or violent manner anyone under the age of 18; (d) incite, encourage or threaten physical harm against another; (e) promote or glorify racial intolerance, use hate and/or racist terms, or signify hate towards any person or group of people; (f) glamorize the use of hard core illegal substances and drugs; (g) violate any provision of this Agreement or any other ProBoards agreement or policy, including without limitation ProBoards' Community Guidelines; or (h) is generally offensive or in bad taste, as determined by ProBoards (collectively, "Objectionable Content"). PROBOARDS DISCLAIMS ANY PERCEIVED, IMPLIED OR ACTUAL DUTY TO MONITOR THE CONTENTS OF THE WEBSITE AND SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR INFORMATION PROVIDED HEREON. Without limiting any of its other remedies, ProBoards reserves the right to terminate Your use of the Website and Services or Your uploading, posting, transmission, display, performance or distribution of Objectionable Content. ProBoards, in its sole discretion, may delete any Objectionable Content from its servers. ProBoards intends to cooperate fully with any law enforcement officials or agencies in the investigation of any violation of this Agreement or of any applicable laws.

Allow me to butt in here as someone who did 1st Amendment work in the past (but I am not a lawyer). The issue with guidelines like these is that they are subject to interpretation. Note that it does not specify what constitutes promoting or glorifying racial intolerance. In America, you can sell Nazi memorabilia on the internet. In Europe, you can't. The KKK can march in U.S. cities, as hateful as they are. I don't think a similar group would be able to march publicly in Europe. Etc., etc., etc.

I'm just giving these examples to say that Proboards listing "objectionable content" is pretty broad and it's up to the board, IMO, to be more specific if that's what we choose to do. I, personally, would feel like my neighbor was a racist asshole if he/she posted a Trump sign in the front yard, but that kind of activity is actually protected in the real world. But, for example, if someone waltzes in here and says, "I actually agree with most of what Trump has to say. That wall, especially, is a brilliant idea!" and I have my own private aneurysm, is that enough to get someone banned? Do I want that person banned? 

This was a thought I had after really thinking about banning as the course of action. I am not a WOC, so I realize my thoughts on this may mean absolutely nothing, but I agree that it is so subjective. 

Again, my opinion may mean nothing because I am not the target in these attacks.

[preppy]

Can we make our own rules in addition to the proboards ones? I agree that the method for who is and is not ip banned doesn't line up. Racism should be an ip ban, it should be no tolerance as so many pp are saying in this thread.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 2, 2016 17:26:13 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:19:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Yet, Booby's and V's harassment of @kirkette wasn't banned. But Celiacmom who had lied (grossly) but had not currently done anything to posters here was IP banned with in a few hours. Do see the message that sends to WOC here?

You bring this up OVER AND OVER. the ship has sailed and there isn't anything we can do about that now.

Nata was harassed too and it sucks that people jumped to ban CM and not these other cases. I am not a quick to ban person and did not want to ban CM.

That's were you and I have a major difference of opinion. I'm not going to sit on my hands and say what done is done.

It isn't done because shit keeps happening.

I want to be a voice for a push for change about the dynamics here. I know I'm one person but it's a motherfucking start.

[bcarp30]

Sept 2, 2016 17:25:12 GMT -5 preppy said:

Can we make our own rules in addition to the proboards ones? I agree that the method for who is and is not ip banned doesn't line up. Racism should be an ip ban, it should be no tolerance as so many pp are saying in this thread.

I agree.  Wise/Kama is a great example, is she at the point where we would IP ban someone? 

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 2, 2016 17:36:39 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:31:19 GMT -5 @natariru said:

I'm so glad you feel like that ship has sailed. Except the only person who's feelings matter in that situation is @kirkette. You know, bc the traumatic experience HAPPENED TO HER. Saying the "ship has sailed" is SO DISMISSIVE.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be dismissive. But booby and V have been banned? What more can be done on THAT matter?

Except they haven't.

[sugarbear]

Other than formally banning, what is there?
I mean, we could freeze posters out, or run them out, or whatever, but without an IP ban, they'll come back with another name.

[greycat]

Sept 2, 2016 17:35:15 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

We talked about banning people when CM was banned too and people were pretty strong on not wanting to creat separate rules from my memory.

Booby has since been banned, right? So what now? And I don't know about V? Both of them were not even MMM regs.

I want to see change too but from my perspective most people on GBCN are in agreement that racism is called out and shunned. Beyond that I don't know what more we can do besides consider bans on a case by case basis.

I've been trying to educate out on my FB because the area where I live has a lot of racial tensions and I want to share the information and open up the conversation in my community.

You aren't getting it at all. Most of the time racist comments are passed over without a callout. Have you read any of the threads over the past year?!?!?

[emoflamingo]

CM was banned because someone with inside info told the mods about the criminal record right?

By all means, ban Booby and V's accounts too. Hopefully they haven't come back under new names but an IP ban would fix that.

I only came to this board more after the Booby/V incident but I try to call out and respond when I catch things in a timely manner. My desk job isn't a solely at my desk job so I'm not always quick but I've realized even my delayed silence is a detriment. Do better, be better right?

[preppy]

Those posters should be banned. And I think the point is that they should have been swiftly banned in the same manner as CM and not a year later after repeated micro aggressions and racism discussions. This should have been the action then and the action for people moving forward. Zero tolerance.

[pugz]

I want this to be a safe place for WOC and so far we have failed to make it that. More moderation and banning are the next steps from what I can see, as we've seen no improvement from the repeated incidents and discussions over the last year.

Did we get new moderators in place a couple of weeks ago after the CM thing?

[preppy]

Sept 2, 2016 17:53:27 GMT -5 pugz said:

I want this to be a safe place for WOC and so far we have failed to make it that. More moderation and banning are the next steps from what I can see, as we've seen no improvement from the repeated incidents and discussions over the last year.

Did we get new moderators in place a couple of weeks ago after the CM thing?

I think we did since the previous mod wasn't active.

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 17:33:08 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:25:12 GMT -5 preppy said:

Can we make our own rules in addition to the proboards ones? I agree that the method for who is and is not ip banned doesn't line up. Racism should be an ip ban, it should be no tolerance as so many pp are saying in this thread.

I agree.  Wise/Kama is a great example, is she at the point where we would IP ban someone? 

So I tried a misguided attempt at this here.  It can't be up to the mods to do this stuff.  We really need to do better all of us.  We just keep on letting stuff like this go on.


pandce.proboards.com/thread/547642/gbcn-mmm-code-conduct

[bcarp30]

Sept 2, 2016 17:56:57 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:33:08 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

I agree.  Wise/Kama is a great example, is she at the point where we would IP ban someone? 

So I tried a misguided attempt at this here.  It can't be up to the mods to do this stuff.  We really need to do better all of us.  We just keep on letting stuff like this go on.


pandce.proboards.com/thread/547642/gbcn-mmm-code-conduct

So based on the responses to her ridiculous poll, we should be allowed to ban her, correct? As a MMM whole it seems quite unified in the responses.

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 18:01:02 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:56:57 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

So I tried a misguided attempt at this here.  It can't be up to the mods to do this stuff.  We really need to do better all of us.  We just keep on letting stuff like this go on.


pandce.proboards.com/thread/547642/gbcn-mmm-code-conduct

So based on the responses to her ridiculous poll, we should be allowed to ban her, correct? As a MMM whole it seems quite unified in the responses.

I agree. She made racist remarks in the original post, double downed then awed and made it about herself.  So let's ban her.  Edited to add - and the board does not want her back based on her poll.

[brandienee]

I keep feeling like saying, this is why everyone hates america.

I don't see how hard it is. Telling someone to take their ball and go home for being a horrible racist human being is not out of line. We don't tolerate hate language from our kids, why in the hell do we have to wait for it to be shown to us by the people who are being hurt over and over by it? We need to wake the fuck up. I don't care if someone is banned and comes back, I don't care if they take time off to evaluate and earn trust again. We need to re-earn the trust of our WOC. They're stronger and smarter than we are, and the fact that this keeps happening is just unacceptable. And I take my responsibility for staying silent.

1.) Zero tolerance for racist language.
2.) Show up to the battle. Fight for your friends.
3.) Stop hiding.

I am a non-comfortationist by nature, but I am really tired of this idea that we "don't know what to do". We know, we're just looking for an easier option, but we sure as hell know. I don't care if it pulls me out my comfort zone, the POC here are worth it. Always. Every. Single. Time.

[pugz]

My vote would be for a small group of moderators to make the decision (which should be, I think, obvious) when someone is up for banning. None of this "everyone vote in a poll" about whether or not to ban someone. That kind of thing just invites more ignorant posts, as we have seen this week!

if people find those rules are too strict or aren't in agreement with us coming down hard on racism, there are approximately a billion other message boards out there.

[bcarp30]

Sept 2, 2016 18:03:49 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:01:02 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

So based on the responses to her ridiculous poll, we should be allowed to ban her, correct? As a MMM whole it seems quite unified in the responses.

I agree. She made racist remarks in the original post, double downed then awed and made it about herself.  So let's ban her.  Edited to add - and the board does not want her back based on her poll.

Fully support that. And if we are going to be swift with this stuff we need to do it when it happens.
And the fact that @natariru had to point out that narockshard was back and posting all la di da is inappropriate and embarrassing for all of us as well. Her husband harassed @natariru so clearly an IP ban is needed to cover both of them.

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 18:07:45 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:03:49 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

I agree. She made racist remarks in the original post, double downed then awed and made it about herself.  So let's ban her.  Edited to add - and the board does not want her back based on her poll.

Fully support that. And if we are going to be swift with this stuff we need to do it when it happens.
And the fact that @natariru had to point out that narockshard was back and posting all la di da is inappropriate and embarrassing for all of us as well. Her husband harassed @natariru so clearly an IP ban is needed to cover both of them.

Yes so who are the mods right now.  Sorry my brain is crap.  Let's tag them and get this done.

[redheadk]

Sept 2, 2016 18:11:55 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:07:45 GMT -5 bcarp30 said:

Fully support that. And if we are going to be swift with this stuff we need to do it when it happens.
And the fact that @natariru had to point out that narockshard was back and posting all la di da is inappropriate and embarrassing for all of us as well. Her husband harassed @natariru so clearly an IP ban is needed to cover both of them.

Yes so who are the mods right now.  Sorry my brain is crap.  Let's tag them and get this done.

suzubell redheadbaker

[PatBenatar]

Yes this should be a safe place for WOC, not racists. GBCN as a whole has lost way too many awesome posters due to microaggressions, racism, assholes, and hurt white feelings.

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:11:55 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Yes so who are the mods right now.  Sorry my brain is crap.  Let's tag them and get this done.

suzubell redheadbaker

suzubell redheadbaker

can you please ip ban @kamehameha and narockshard

[face]

Sept 2, 2016 18:17:31 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

suzubell redheadbaker

suzubell redheadbaker

can you please ip ban @kamehameha and narockshard

This means they cannot create new usernames and come back, yes? But they can still lurk, obviously I guess?

[bex]

Sept 2, 2016 16:53:15 GMT -5 pantsparty said:

Sept 2, 2016 16:36:13 GMT -5 bex said:

I don't necessarily think we need to actually ban posters. We do a good job of excluding people and running them off the board without banning.....when we want to.

The issue is it takes us too long to realize that "hey that was a shitty comment."

Someone makes a comment about poor people, or overweight people (thinking of missussbee) etc and the board gets pretty "wtf" pretty fast.

For some reason the racist comments take us a lot longer to act.

I'm curious to hear if that's really how POC feel. I don't necessarily agree that simply jumping on a poster faster is going to make anyone feel better about a shitty, racist comment. But I guess I shouldn't speak for anyone.

No I don't think it is going to make the POC forget about a racist comment. So if banning is necessary and warranted so that POC feel welcome here I'm okay with that.

My point was more that we just tend to skip over the racist comments. We have a really high threshold apparently for what we (as white women) deem to be racist, which is messed up. When a WOC is offended by a post, there's usually some defense of the offensive post.

"Too ethnic"
"Earrings are trashy"
"Extra points"

And so on.

I don't know. I don't think I'm making sense lol.

[betsyray]

Sept 2, 2016 17:35:15 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

We talked about banning people when CM was banned too and people were pretty strong on not wanting to creat separate rules from my memory.

Booby has since been banned, right? So what now? And I don't know about V? Both of them were not even MMM regs.

I want to see change too but from my perspective most people on GBCN are in agreement that racism is called out and shunned. Beyond that I don't know what more we can do besides consider bans on a case by case basis.

I've been trying to educate out on my FB because the area where I live has a lot of racial tensions and I want to share the information and open up the conversation in my community.

I'm not a reg here but this is some bullshit. Most of GBCN is in agreement that racism is called out and shunned? LOfuckingL. Is that why my home board April 12 lost some amazing WOC posters? Or why natariru and wandering left MMM? Because we are all calling out racism so well?

[redheadbaker]

Sept 2, 2016 18:17:31 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

suzubell redheadbaker

suzubell redheadbaker

can you please ip ban @kamehameha and narockshard

I believe banning can only be done by the global mods 

EllieArroway,y4m,@astrid,cjeanette,esdreturns,flex,vanillacourage,

[Brie]

Sept 2, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:11:55 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

Yes so who are the mods right now.  Sorry my brain is crap.  Let's tag them and get this done.

suzubell redheadbaker

Do we have any mods who are POC? I think that should be addressed.

[pugz]

Sept 2, 2016 18:34:39 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:17:31 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

suzubell redheadbaker

can you please ip ban @kamehameha and narockshard

I believe banning can only be done by the global mods 

EllieArroway ,y4m ,@astrid ,cjeanette ,esdreturns ,flex ,vanillacourage ,

can we make one of ours a global mod?  Alternatively, y4m, cj, and vc all post here too

[Susie]

Sept 2, 2016 17:35:15 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

I want to see change too but from my perspective most people on GBCN are in agreement that racism is called out and shunned. Beyond that I don't know what more we can do besides consider bans on a case by case basis.

No, we're not, and no, it isn't.  This is one of the prime areas where MMM in particular needs to do better, and needs to own that the board collectively needs to do better.  Not recognizing that is very central to the problem.

[hopecounts]

Sept 2, 2016 18:35:45 GMT -5 Brie said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

suzubell redheadbaker

Do we have any mods who are POC? I think that should be addressed.

Could a POC who is willing and posts here be made a global mod?