What White Posters Can Do

[face]

If we are exercising zero tolerance, is @merida added to the ban list?

We will find the 40 before we know it. Keep opening your mouths! Show us who you are so we can ban all of you!

[cjeanette]

On my phone so limited here. An ip ban can only be done by the admins so calling for more globals won't help. We can only ban usernames. We don't see ip

[satsuma]

Sept 2, 2016 18:40:38 GMT -5 Susie said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:35:15 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

I want to see change too but from my perspective most people on GBCN are in agreement that racism is called out and shunned. Beyond that I don't know what more we can do besides consider bans on a case by case basis.

No, we're not, and no, it isn't.  This is one of the prime areas where MMM in particular needs to do better, and needs to own that the board collectively needs to do better.  Not recognizing that is very central to the problem.

For sure. If this were true, we wouldn't be hemorrhaging members. Smo was also harassed because of a thread on here. I get that Booby wasn't a board regular, but it took waaaaaaay too long to shut that down. 

[hopecounts]

Sept 2, 2016 18:47:28 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

On my phone so limited here. An ip ban can only be done by the admins so calling for more globals won't help. We can only ban usernames. We don't see ip

So can a WOC who posts here be made another admin?
Or some how brought in to the moderating group to get the admins attention quickly?
I just think it might be helpful to the boards as a whole to have someone/more representation at the mod table.

[satsuma]

So maybe board mods can make a decision to ban and then bring it to the attention of an admin?

[hopecounts]

Sept 2, 2016 19:01:14 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:42:30 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Could a POC who is willing and posts here be made a global mod?

Isn't this the same as telling a WOC to lead/educate us? Puts the work on them. The point is that we all need to shut it down.

No, my thought was t so much so they can ban but so that they are part of the overall mod team.

[noodleskooze]

Again. Ironic.

[face]

Sept 2, 2016 18:57:07 GMT -5 @callmefia said:

Sept 2, 2016 18:46:44 GMT -5 face said:

If we are exercising zero tolerance, is @merida added to the ban list?

We will find the 40 before we know it. Keep opening your mouths! Show us who you are so we can ban all of you!

You missed the tag but I saw it anyway. What basis? What was my racist remark? I was not agreeable to wise owl. I am not one of the 40.

Honestly, it's hard to keep track because you are flipping and flopping all over the place. I may be mistaken and it wasn't racist, but it certainly wasn't...appropriate....to imply that @kirkette should basically get over what happened to her and that ship has sailed on it.

[noodleskooze]

FWIW As a longtime, active poster who stayed quiet far too long, I realize that I have already hurt and betrayed the WOC here by not stepping up previously. I am sad and disgusted by my own silence, and I realize that I have alienated women I admire and respect. That's the way the cookie crumbles when you choose to ignore and choose to be silent. For that I'm sorry and I hope to show how much I love them and want them here, but I am also fully aware that I don't deserve any chances to make amends. I will try, that's all I can do. I can speak up, not just read and listen. And I commit to doing that, even though I realize it's too little too late.

[bex]

I think part of the problem is that MMM has a very black-and-white view of what constitutes racism and as a whole, the board has not moved beyond that.

So if someone were to say "I don't like black people," that would be met with disgust and a very strong negative response.

If someone were to say, "I don't like Scandal because Olivia Pope seems too scary"* that would be met with some strong side eyes but not the same level of disgust as the first.

If someone were to say "I am scared of @kirkette" that would be met with fewer side eyes - still some, but fewer.

If someone were to say "pierced ears on a baby is trashy" most here would not bat an eye.

But all the statements are racist/discriminatory. MMM would defend at least two of those statements, maybe three of them. We, collectively, think racism is only the first example. And because we (again collectively) don't dislike black people, we can't be racist NOR can we engage in racist comments or behavior.

But that is false and we need to get over that and move beyond that simple understanding of racism in order to get why those other comments are so offensive.

(Sorry @kirkette I'm using you since you are still being active in these threads).

*i just started watching scandal last night. I'm so behind.

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 19:45:46 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

Sept 2, 2016 17:19:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Yet, Booby's and V's harassment of @kirkette wasn't banned. But Celiacmom who had lied (grossly) but had not currently done anything to posters here was IP banned with in a few hours. Do see the message that sends to WOC here?

TamiTaylor , I applaud you for fighting the good fight.

I have been trying to articulate this for way too long (while a pile of laundry sits on the sofa behind me). There has always been a naivete to this board as a whole that has allowed people to dismiss others' experiences as invalid or to bond people over what seems like very flimsy pretense. The "post something nice about someone!" has always made me roll my eyes, because this place's version of nice takes zero effort. Post a smiley and one line in response to someone's post! Like photos of their kids! Or their new outfit! Or their LLR! This is not a place that was created to have the difficult discussions. So I guess I'm not sure why everyone is clucking to themselves, saying "I expect better from white MMM!" Because I'm not sure I do (save for my crossover CEP girls, and a few others. You know who you are.)

I was not around when this board was created, but if we don't expect better then how will we ever do better?   Raising kids is the hardest and most rewarding job of my life.  Why can't we discuss that without being racist assholes.  And trust I know I have a lot to learn. I lurk on CEP and have gained so much knowledge from there.  But do these things have to be mutually exclusive?  Because I sure as hell don't think so.  



 

[pizzapizza]

Sept 2, 2016 20:14:02 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

Sept 2, 2016 20:06:14 GMT -5 pizzapizza said:

I was not around when this board was created, but if we don't expect better then how will we ever do better?   Raising kids is the hardest and most rewarding job of my life.  Why can't we discuss that without being racist assholes.  And trust I know I have a lot to learn. I lurk on CEP and have gained so much knowledge from there.  But do these things have to be mutually exclusive?  Because I sure as hell don't think so.  



 

Because this board is huge and is drawing people who want to talk about the small stuff that most white people think is untouched by any matter of race--bedtimes, carseats, kids' clothes. And while there are topics that can truly be universal, very often, our biases show through even unconsciously. And white people aren't paying attention, because we're talking about "the small stuff" or Pokemon or first day of school pics and we didn't come here today for anything serious! So, not saying we can't--in fact, that would be awesome! I'm saying it likely won't, given we have been on this EXACT merry-go-round twice before on this board and not much has changed. 

I totally get what you are saying but now we need to  continue to make people uncomfortable (we should have all along). Look at TamiTaylor she is fucking amazing.  I was reading the other post linked back to CEP about white people getting their cousins.  So let's go get them. Maybe some of us will learn, and I am sure some will not.  But hopefully we can make some progress. And if we do better then maybe our kids will do better.  Donald Trump is a fucking presidential candidate.  It is so depressing.

[aspentosh]

Oh man. The ship never sails on racist attacks. That's not something you can just forget.

@kirkette you are so strong when you shouldn't have to be.

[redheadk]

And there are still some people posting in that damn Pokemon thread that haven't said a single damn word about any of this...

[water*drop]

Okay, so sure, we're a board about parenting. But the thread about talking to kids about race got fewer views than today's randoms despite being posted for twice as long. It's relevant to the topic of the board, and it's relevant to the problems the board is having. If everybody is "listening and learning," why doesn't that post have a higher view count?

ETA: And I feel weird saying this because it's my post, and I don't want to be all patting myself on the back for posting something relevant...but the lack of views does seem incongruent with the claim that we all want to do better.

[bex]

This is a random but I'm going to share it here.

H went to the Springsteen concert last night in DC. Bruce played "American skin," also known as 41 shots. It's about the shooting of Amadou Diallo.

Lyrics include:
41 shots, Lena gets her son ready for school
She says, "On these streets, Charles
You've got to understand the rules
If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite
And that you'll never ever run away
Promise Mama you'll keep your hands in sight"

Seems pretty relevant today, right, as sad as that may be. (This song is from 2001 or 2002, Diallo was shot in 1999).

H said more than half the audience sat down as soon as Bruce started playing it. Like immediately. He took pictures of it. Everyone sitting, then standing up 6 minutes later when it ended. He was on the field where most people stand for most songs. But was obvious.

If white people cant stand for a song like that.....what WILL we stand for?

Besides the national anthem, obviously.

[pugz]

@dontcallmeshirley1 I was definitely thinking of it like a ferris wheel this week too.


Since we don't have some kind of "board of directors" for lack of better term, how do we go about putting a new zero-tolerance policy in place? Just get the mods to agree to it?

I think having a sticky for a bit with a "hey these are the new rules" post telling people what the zero tolerance policy entails, who our mods are, etc. could be effective so people aren't all "what I didn't know, who made this decision?!" I just do not want it to devolve into a discussion about whether or not banning is "too harsh" because those people need to move on if they aren't on board.

[pugz]

@dontcallmeshirley1 good point! Most message boards and FB groups have a permanent sticky post with a "read this first" message.

[niq]

Can I ask a question about life outside my MM/MMM/H&F bubble? What happens when this topic comes up on ML or CEP? Those are large boards with posters who must have a wide range of political beliefs. Not everyone is going to score a 0/7 on the bias scale.

[pugz]

Can one of our mods make the sticky? suzubell redheadbaker I guess you can decide if you want to write the content of it or have someone else or group of someones write it up.

[pugz]

niq CEP has been banning people, did it just this week actually. Not sure about ML as I don't spend as much time there.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2016 20:52:53 GMT -5 bex said:

This is a random but I'm going to share it here.

H went to the Springsteen concert last night in DC. Bruce played "American skin," also known as 41 shots. It's about the shooting of Amadou Diallo.

Lyrics include:
41 shots, Lena gets her son ready for school
She says, "On these streets, Charles
You've got to understand the rules
If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite
And that you'll never ever run away
Promise Mama you'll keep your hands in sight"

Seems pretty relevant today, right, as sad as that may be. (This song is from 2001 or 2002, Diallo was shot in 1999).

H said more than half the audience sat down as soon as Bruce started playing it. Like immediately. He took pictures of it. Everyone sitting, then standing up 6 minutes later when it ended. He was on the field where most people stand for most songs. But was obvious.

If white people cant stand for a song like that.....what WILL we stand for?

Besides the national anthem, obviously.

RAGE.

That is such an amazing song. So powerful. I have never seen him play it live, but considering I cried three times at my last Bruce concert, I know I would be in tears.

[noodleskooze]

Not surprised one bit at @supergreen's absence in these conversations.

[TamiTaylor]

She should have been shunned for the Maria comment. I will not forget that shit.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2016 21:47:15 GMT -5 @natariru said:

Sept 2, 2016 20:33:51 GMT -5 redheadk said:

And there are still some people posting in that damn Pokemon thread that haven't said a single damn word about any of this...

Yep. Where the fuck are you now, @supergreen?

SHOULD I FUCKING START CALLING PEOPLE OUT?

Hello. Cursing at me isn't necessary. I've got no idea what's going on.

[redheadk]

Sept 2, 2016 21:13:30 GMT -5 niq said:

Can I ask a question about life outside my MM/MMM/H&F bubble? What happens when this topic comes up on ML or CEP? Those are large boards with posters who must have a wide range of political beliefs. Not everyone is going to score a 0/7 on the bias scale.

Well, ML is pretty much like this, much though it tries to pretend otherwise. 

CEP shuts it down QUICK. Even though it may take a bit to get someone banned, racism is called out pretty fast there, IMO. The board moves fast and the posters are, by and large, intelligent and articulate. 

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2016 21:51:46 GMT -5 noodleskooze said:

Not surprised one bit at @supergreen's absence in these conversations.

c'mon guys. I haven't done anything wrong. I've just been enjoying playing Pokemon this summer. That's all. I haven't been keeping up with the rest of the board at all. There's no need to call me in here and start yelling at me.

[redheadk]

Sept 2, 2016 21:52:44 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

Sept 2, 2016 21:47:15 GMT -5 @natariru said:

Yep. Where the fuck are you now, @supergreen ?

SHOULD I FUCKING START CALLING PEOPLE OUT?

Hello. Cursing at me isn't necessary. I've got no idea what's going on.

The cursing is pretty damn necessary.

You have got to be kidding me. 

[redheadk]

Sept 2, 2016 21:54:49 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

Sept 2, 2016 21:51:46 GMT -5 noodleskooze said:

Not surprised one bit at @supergreen 's absence in these conversations.

c'mon guys. I haven't done anything wrong. I've just been enjoying playing Pokemon this summer. That's all. I haven't been keeping up with the rest of the board at all. There's no need to call me in here and start yelling at me.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring obviously sensitive posts while you keep bumping Pokemon IS doing something wrong. 

[noodleskooze]

Ever think that's the problem people have with you?