You can't shield them from everything forever, they have to learn about these things eventually.
I agree with this but why does anyone have to rush it? I have a 10yo and he is NOT mature enough to handle abortion. Hell, he is still on the fence about Santa-lol. I think if the OP daughter is mature enough - that's up to her parents to decide. I can't see any of DS's friends mature enough to handle this topic.
That said, I would never call and complain about another child's reports as long as it wasn't exposing the whole class.
ETA: I also think 10yo girls ARE more mature than 10yo boys!
Mine is almost 10 and while I feel he is still SO young, the reality is that we have to talk about uncomfortable topics before it's an emergency. I have talked to him about racial slurs, how he should and should not treat women (and people in general), and inappropriate remarks as they come up. But I don't want him to come to me with misinformation later that I have to correct. I don't think he will get any sex Ed until next year but I have already told him small things, like periods, to lay the groundwork
You can't shield them from everything forever, they have to learn about these things eventually.
I agree with this but why does anyone have to rush it? I have a 10yo and he is NOT mature enough to handle abortion. Hell, he is still on the fence about Santa-lol. I think if the OP daughter is mature enough - that's up to her parents to decide. I can't see any of DS's friends mature enough to handle this topic.
That said, I would never call and complain about another child's reports as long as it wasn't exposing the whole class.
ETA: I also think 10yo girls ARE more mature than 10yo boys!
So much this. I think my 5 year old daughter is more mature than my 10 year old boy, lol!
I agree with this but why does anyone have to rush it? I have a 10yo and he is NOT mature enough to handle abortion. Hell, he is still on the fence about Santa-lol. I think if the OP daughter is mature enough - that's up to her parents to decide. I can't see any of DS's friends mature enough to handle this topic.
That said, I would never call and complain about another child's reports as long as it wasn't exposing the whole class.
ETA: I also think 10yo girls ARE more mature than 10yo boys!
Mine is almost 10 and while I feel he is still SO young, the reality is that we have to talk about uncomfortable topics before it's an emergency. I have talked to him about racial slurs, how he should and should not treat women (and people in general), and inappropriate remarks as they come up. But I don't want him to come to me with misinformation later that I have to correct. I don't think he will get any sex Ed until next year but I have already told him small things, like periods, to lay the groundwork
Yes, I feel I do a good job at keeping everything age appropriate. Talked about inappropriate touching once they were potty trained. I have talked with my oldest about his bodily changes that are coming, what to expect, where he will see hair and the sensations he will start to feel and possibly having wet dreams, etc. Many boys think they wet the bed the first time because it often sneaks up on people. They actually start around now. But the sex-ed has not been touched on yet. I will get there but it's not necessary right now. I can't even imagine an abortion discussion let alone doing a proper research paper. JMO - others may disagree.
A random parent's discomfort with the topic has no bearing. Your (generic you) discomfort shouldn't stifle someone else's education and interests. It probably means that you need to learn more about the topic, actually.
Some things are easier talked about when kids are young. They're much more matter of fact about "taboo" topics and introducing those things earlier helps them understand that they're a normal part of society and shouldn't be stigmatized.
What about the discomfort of the other children in the class, do they not get that respect?
Nope, sometimes you have to talk about things that make you uncomfortable.
chchchia, It isn't being presented to the class. It's only between the student and the teacher.
But FWIW, how do you know the children would be uncomfortable? I wouldn't presume that, it seems like the parent would be projecting their own feelings and thinking that the children will feel the same way as them.
I'm only going to speak for my 10 year old here: she can't handle talking about sex without being uncomfortable. We have been talking about her body and what to expect out of puberty since she was in 3rd grade. Our district has sex Ed/puberty Ed in 4th grade. We've also talked it at home. At this point, I don't think we could have a discussion with her about abortion where she wouldn't completely shut down.
And clearly, the kids ARE talking about this and it's not just between the ops daughter and the teacher, if other parents are calling to complain.
Would I personally call and complain? No. Would I side eye it? Absolutely.
I am also pro choice and when I feel she's ready for that discussion I will have it with her.
But to think that all 10 year olds are magically mature enough to handle this topic of conversation on the playground and that these parents are just bunch of ninnies projecting their Puritan beliefs on everyone else is a stretch, IMO.
chchchia , It isn't being presented to the class. It's only between the student and the teacher.
But FWIW, how do you know the children would be uncomfortable? I wouldn't presume that, it seems like the parent would be projecting their own feelings and thinking that the children will feel the same way as them.
I'm only going to speak for my 10 year old here: she can't handle talking about sex without being uncomfortable. We have been talking about her body and what to expect out of puberty since she was in 3rd grade. Our district has sex Ed/puberty Ed in 4th grade. We've also talked it at home. At this point, I don't think we could have a discussion with her about abortion where she wouldn't completely shut down.
And clearly, the kids ARE talking about this and it's not just between the ops daughter and the teacher, if other parents are calling to complain.
Would I personally call and complain? No. Would I side eye it? Absolutely.
I am also pro choice and when I feel she's ready for that discussion I will have it with her.
But to think that all 10 year olds are magically mature enough to handle this topic of conversation on the playground and that these parents are just bunch of ninnies projecting their Puritan beliefs on everyone else is a stretch, IMO.
Spot on. Plus I would like to be the one that my son first hears about abortion from.
What about the discomfort of the other children in the class, do they not get that respect?
Nope, sometimes you have to talk about things that make you uncomfortable.
While that is an important lesson, there is a spectrum here.
I think there are two separate conversations happening here; one in the event that the paper would be kept between the student and the teacher (which I understand is the case here), vs. if it were to be a class discussion.
Frankly, what another student writes for the teacher only is none of anyone else's business. I have no right to dictate another kid's interests. More power to her for having curiosity on a heavy topic.
However, if it were to be a class presentation, yeah, I have a problem with it. This is a topic that is important to me, and I want to have some say in how the foundation for it is laid down for MY child. I don't want their first - or early- exposure to it to be from a peer who tells them that they will go to hell if they murder their child (just an example of how it *could* go down). This is an enormously polarizing topic, one that some people base their entire presidential vote for. I don't think it's a good subject to make an example of for kids.
A random parent's discomfort with the topic has no bearing. Your (generic you) discomfort shouldn't stifle someone else's education and interests. It probably means that you need to learn more about the topic, actually.
Some things are easier talked about when kids are young. They're much more matter of fact about "taboo" topics and introducing those things earlier helps them understand that they're a normal part of society and shouldn't be stigmatized.
What about the discomfort of the other children in the class, do they not get that respect?
But it wasn't being presented to the class so.....
Did OP answer how the parents found out? I am interested in that as well. I am certainly not a pearl clutcher but if my daughter came home and said, "What's an abortion? So and so said she wants to do a report on it and the teacher won't let her", I'd pause. Not sure if I'd be calling but I might be a little deer-in-the-headlights.
Did OP answer how the parents found out? I am interested in that as well. I am certainly not a pearl clutcher but if my daughter came home and said, "What's an abortion? So and so said she wants to do a report on it and the teacher won't let her", I'd pause. Not sure if I'd be calling but I might be a little deer-in-the-headlights.
But so what? The paper, itself, was not going to be presented to the class.
You are boiling this down to semantics with me. If it was truly between the teacher and the student, I would be okay with it, that is not what happened.
This topic, in my opinion should not be a discussion for 10 years, paper or not. The whole topic. It was obviously not kept at the teacher/student only level. The class knew about it and relayed it to their parents.
Post by countthestars on Oct 27, 2016 11:56:30 GMT -5
I would imagine the other kids knew about it like this:
little speedy: What are you writing your paper about? Johnny: Video games. You? little speedy: abortion
I'm going to guess that little speedy didn't get into what abortion was. So, you (collective) as Johnny's parents are welcome to say "oh wow, that's an interesting topic. I think it's a little too mature for you right now, but we can talk about it in a couple of years."
But so what? The paper, itself, was not going to be presented to the class.
You are boiling this down to semantics with me. If it was truly between the teacher and the student, I would be okay with it, that is not what happened.
This topic, in my opinion should not be a discussion for 10 years, paper or not. The whole topic. It was obviously not kept at the teacher/student only level. The class knew about it and relayed it to their parents.
This line of thinking just doesn't make sense to me. I think the obvious answer as to how they all knew was that someone said "hey what are you doing your paper on?" and kids shared their topics with each other. If your kid comes home and asks you about it then unfortunately you have to answer them- just like you would if they asked you about anything else. I mean with the election going on if you have the news or radio on at all around your kids chances are they're picking up a lot of information- unless you shelter your kid's from everything I doubt this is the one and only place they'd hear the word abortion.
But you being uncomfortable with having to answer that question for your child doesn't mean someone else's child can't do a paper on it.
I would imagine the other kids knew about it like this:
little speedy: What are you writing your paper about? Johnny: Video games. You? little speedy: abortion
I'm going to guess that little speedy didn't get into what abortion was. So, you (collective) as Johnny's parents are welcome to say "oh wow, that's an interesting topic. I think it's a little too mature for you right now, but we can talk about it in a couple of years."
Well it could have gone that way. Or, knowing my daughter and her friends, continued on
"What's abortion?" "When a lady is pregnant and has an operation and she's not pregnant anymore" or any variation of that
Kid comes home, "how does that operation work?" "why would a lady not want to be pregnant?" "what happens to the baby after?"
Again, I don't know whether or not I'd call, but I would certainly be anxious over the discussion forced upon me.
But so what? The paper, itself, was not going to be presented to the class.
You are boiling this down to semantics with me. If it was truly between the teacher and the student, I would be okay with it, that is not what happened.
This topic, in my opinion should not be a discussion for 10 years, paper or not. The whole topic. It was obviously not kept at the teacher/student only level. The class knew about it and relayed it to their parents.
Because here, the semantics kind of do matter.
Even if she told her classmates this was what she was researching, the presentation was not for the class. So what her classmates would know she was researching it. Why does that give other parents the right to call and beef? There is not a single thing stopping this child from researching this topic at this point on her own, now without the school providing any sort of meaningful support regarding how to research this issue properly.
What about the discomfort of the other children in the class, do they not get that respect?
But it wasn't being presented to the class so.....
yet, they had a class discussion on the topics of the papers. The ops daughter was able to tell her what the other children are writing and the other children clearly told their parents about her paper subject.
I am trying to balance myself between your point of academic freedom and the power of knowledge and my stance as the parent of a 5th grader who really isn't quite mature enough to discuss not only the direct definition of abortion or the myriad reasons why a woman would chose to have one.
Nope, sometimes you have to talk about things that make you uncomfortable.
While that is an important lesson, there is a spectrum here.
I think there are two separate conversations happening here; one in the event that the paper would be kept between the student and the teacher (which I understand is the case here), vs. if it were to be a class discussion.
Frankly, what another student writes for the teacher only is none of anyone else's business. I have no right to dictate another kid's interests. More power to her for having curiosity on a heavy topic.
However, if it were to be a class presentation, yeah, I have a problem with it. This is a topic that is important to me, and I want to have some say in how the foundation for it is laid down for MY child. I don't want their first - or early- exposure to it to be from a peer who tells them that they will go to hell if they murder their child (just an example of how it *could* go down). This is an enormously polarizing topic, one that some people base their entire presidential vote for. I don't think it's a good subject to make an example of for kids.
At first I thought it was a research piece, but realized it is an opinion piece and I agree. I don't want my child taught abortion is a reason to go to hell.
But it wasn't being presented to the class so.....
yet, they had a class discussion on the topics of the papers. The ops daughter was able to tell her what the other children are writing and the other children clearly told their parents about her paper subject.
I am trying to balance myself between your point of academic freedom and the power of knowledge and my stance as the parent of a 5th grader who really isn't quite mature enough to discuss not only the direct definition of abortion or the myriad reasons why a woman would chose to have one.
I guess my answer then is that if the school wasn't prepared for thorny topics, they should not have had a class discussion on topics and they should have created a list of acceptable choices. Or waited on any topic discussion until ALL topics were approved.
yet, they had a class discussion on the topics of the papers. The ops daughter was able to tell her what the other children are writing and the other children clearly told their parents about her paper subject.
I am trying to balance myself between your point of academic freedom and the power of knowledge and my stance as the parent of a 5th grader who really isn't quite mature enough to discuss not only the direct definition of abortion or the myriad reasons why a woman would chose to have one.
I guess my answer then is that if the school wasn't prepared for thorny topics, they should not have had a class discussion on topics and they should have created a list of acceptable choices. Or waited on any topic discussion until ALL topics were approved.
I agree with this. and clearly the teacher was up for facilitating the discussion with ops daughter, as evidenced by the request for parental permission, before administration got involved.
And I agree with mofongo that they probably weren't anticipating the subject to be chosen.
I guess my answer then is that if the school wasn't prepared for thorny topics, they should not have had a class discussion on topics and they should have created a list of acceptable choices. Or waited on any topic discussion until ALL topics were approved.
I'm guessing they weren't expecting a 10yr old to pick abortion. If they could have predicted that they may have made different ground rules.
You are boiling this down to semantics with me. If it was truly between the teacher and the student, I would be okay with it, that is not what happened.
This topic, in my opinion should not be a discussion for 10 years, paper or not. The whole topic. It was obviously not kept at the teacher/student only level. The class knew about it and relayed it to their parents.
This line of thinking just doesn't make sense to me. I think the obvious answer as to how they all knew was that someone said "hey what are you doing your paper on?" and kids shared their topics with each other. If your kid comes home and asks you about it then unfortunately you have to answer them- just like you would if they asked you about anything else. I mean with the election going on if you have the news or radio on at all around your kids chances are they're picking up a lot of information- unless you shelter your kid's from everything I doubt this is the one and only place they'd hear the word abortion.
But you being uncomfortable with having to answer that question for your child doesn't mean someone else's child can't do a paper on it.
The thing is, it has not been answered as to how the other children found out and I make no apologies for the fact that 10 is too young to learn someone else's opinion on this matter. My children have seen a lot of political ads in my home, when they question it, I explain to them to the degree that I KNOW my child is capable of understanding. I have a chance to offer up both sides of the issues and frankly, I do not want my child to learn about a very sensitive and personal issue from a classmates opinion.
I also hate the fact that some kids find out at 5 there is no Santa and feel the need to tell everyone in school (b/c there are a lot of parents out there who do not believe in Santa and feel the need to tell their kids about everything w/o telling them how someone else might feel) when I love for my children to believe in him for as long as they want to. If I feel that way about Santa, you can imagine why I feel this way about this topic.
I would imagine the other kids knew about it like this:
little speedy: What are you writing your paper about? Johnny: Video games. You? little speedy: abortion
I'm going to guess that little speedy didn't get into what abortion was. So, you (collective) as Johnny's parents are welcome to say "oh wow, that's an interesting topic. I think it's a little too mature for you right now, but we can talk about it in a couple of years."
Well it could have gone that way. Or, knowing my daughter and her friends, continued on
"What's abortion?" "When a lady is pregnant and has an operation and she's not pregnant anymore" or any variation of that
Kid comes home, "how does that operation work?" "why would a lady not want to be pregnant?" "what happens to the baby after?"
Again, I don't know whether or not I'd call, but I would certainly be anxious over the discussion forced upon me.
But but... that's what parenting is! I didn't want to have a discussion with my kid when he was 2 about what happens to us after we die, but my grandfather died and so I had to. If you don't think your kid is mature enough for that discussion you can tell them so. Answer the basic question with basic information and move on. But how uncomfortable you are with talking to your kid about a certain subject (whether it be death, abortion, sex, politics, whatever) couldn't be any less of my problem. It's your kid, you figure it out.
*not you, like you specifically, you more so the parents in the room who are calling
yet, they had a class discussion on the topics of the papers. The ops daughter was able to tell her what the other children are writing and the other children clearly told their parents about her paper subject.
I am trying to balance myself between your point of academic freedom and the power of knowledge and my stance as the parent of a 5th grader who really isn't quite mature enough to discuss not only the direct definition of abortion or the myriad reasons why a woman would chose to have one.
I guess my answer then is that if the school wasn't prepared for thorny topics, they should not have had a class discussion on topics and they should have created a list of acceptable choices. Or waited on any topic discussion until ALL topics were approved.
I am guessing the school wasn't counting on a 10 year old discussing abortion.
I agree with you that any topic should not have been discussed without approval.
This line of thinking just doesn't make sense to me. I think the obvious answer as to how they all knew was that someone said "hey what are you doing your paper on?" and kids shared their topics with each other. If your kid comes home and asks you about it then unfortunately you have to answer them- just like you would if they asked you about anything else. I mean with the election going on if you have the news or radio on at all around your kids chances are they're picking up a lot of information- unless you shelter your kid's from everything I doubt this is the one and only place they'd hear the word abortion.
But you being uncomfortable with having to answer that question for your child doesn't mean someone else's child can't do a paper on it.
The thing is, it has not been answered as to how the other children found out and I make no apologies for the fact that 10 is too young to learn someone else's opinion on this matter. My children have seen a lot of political ads in my home, when they question it, I explain to them to the degree that I KNOW my child is capable of understanding. I have a chance to offer up both sides of the issues and frankly, I do not want my child to learn about a very sensitive and personal issue from a classmates opinion.
I also hate the fact that some kids find out at 5 there is no Santa and feel the need to tell everyone in school (b/c there are a lot of parents out there who do not believe in Santa and feel the need to tell their kids about everything w/o telling them how someone else might feel) when I love for my children to believe in him for as long as they want to. If I feel that way about Santa, you can imagine why I feel this way about this topic.
I mean, kids are going to discuss a lot of stuff whether you like it or not. If you want them to hear it from you first you better get talking.
Well it could have gone that way. Or, knowing my daughter and her friends, continued on
"What's abortion?" "When a lady is pregnant and has an operation and she's not pregnant anymore" or any variation of that
Kid comes home, "how does that operation work?" "why would a lady not want to be pregnant?" "what happens to the baby after?"
Again, I don't know whether or not I'd call, but I would certainly be anxious over the discussion forced upon me.
But but... that's what parenting is! I didn't want to have a discussion with my kid when he was 2 about what happens to us after we die, but my grandfather died and so I had to. If you don't think your kid is mature enough for that discussion you can tell them so. Answer the basic question with basic information and move on. But how uncomfortable you are with talking to your kid about a certain subject (whether it be death, abortion, sex, politics, whatever) couldn't be any less of my problem. It's your kid, you figure it out.
*not you, like you specifically, you more so the parents in the room who are calling
You must have a savant for a 2 year old. I do not know or have ever known a 2 year who needs to know or understand death and the hereafter. Most two years I know or have known understand trucks, toys, eating and sleeping and getting more toys.