There is a difference though, between confronting the death of a parent (a certain and inevitable part of life), and a super-charged polarizing topic like abortion. It's not even about comfort. I can get past that. I am a parent for God's sake. A rational, fair discussion about abortion can and should involve: 1. rape 2. incest 3. premarital sex 4. poverty 5. domestic abuse 6. fetal health 7. maternal health 8. religious beliefs
Just to name a few. Can an 8th grader handle that? Probably yes. A 5th grader? That's highly dependent on the child. A lot of these topics could be too much to handle at that age. Again, as a parent, I have to be willing to wade through that, but I do not think 5th grade is the appropriate place for this discussion to begin.
Also can I say I feel bad for this teacher? There is no answer here and she's going to end up ruffling feathers no matter what. LittleSpeedy has made shit get real.
I just got here so I haven't quite made it through all the replies since last night but here is some additional info that people have asked about.
First of all, my DD goes to an all girls school with an advanced curriculum. So these girls have been together for a while, they are all very bright although they do have varying degrees of maturity. It's not unusual for serious topics to come up in class because they are a bunch of smart girls in an environment where they feel free to discuss nearly anything. Also, they have one of the best teachers I could ever imagine.
On Tuesday, when the assignment was announced, the teacher asked the girls to brainstorm possible topics to list on the board. My daughter suggested abortion. The girls immediately started to debate amongst themselves. The teacher told them that abortion was a very "big" topic with many angles to consider and that it would be best to have that conversation under the guidance of their parents. She also told the girls "your parents might not quite be ready to discuss this topic with you. If they aren't, please remember how much they love you and want the best for you. Please respect their wishes and don't look for information elsewhere. Your parents will be ready soon enough."
So the abortion topic was left off the board. After brainstorming, the girls were asked to write a position statement on an index card and turn it in. My daughter asked to speak to the teacher in the hallway. DD explained the she still really wanted to write the paper on abortion and would it be ok if her mom said she could? So her teacher agreed to send an email to DH and me.
DH and I did not get a chance to talk about it Tuesday night so DD went to school on Wednesday not knowing if she would be able to write on this topic. DH and I finally talked around noon and although we still hadn't made up our minds, started discussing under what circumstances DD would be allowed to complete the process, how we would monitor the research, etc. The teacher and I talked during one of her planning periods and I let her know we were willing to let DD go forward. I actually saw this as an opportunity to open up a dialogue with DD (we've already had the sex talk. That has been a progression over the last year, just giving her a few pieces of the puzzle at a time as she was ready for them.)
So during writing class, the teacher pulled DD into the hall to tell her I had approved her topic but that I had some ground rules that I would go over with her at home and the teacher had additional ground rules, such as DD was not to discuss her opinions or research with anyone at school. The teacher said DD was very gracious, repectful and agreeable and the teacher had confidence that DD would abide by the rules. The teacher also told DD she could change her mind at any time if the topic proved to be too much for her and that she would be given a suitable amount of time to complete a different topic without penalty.
So even though nothing more had been said in class other than the initial brainstorming idea, the story still spread that Miss C. pulled DD out of class twice to talk about abortion. The girls clearly did not know what was actually discussed, it was more speculation based on the previous day.
15 minutes after pick up, the principal started receiving phone calls. The teacher, curriculum director and principal had a meeting to discuss DD's paper. The teacher laid out a very thoughtful plan about the steps she would take to monitor DD, how research would be conducted, how DD's paper would be turned in, etc. It actually added quite a bit of work for the teacher but she was willing to do it. The principal and dean decided that there were just too many ways for the project to go sideways and that they could not allow it. The teacher then sent out a very thoughtful email to all the parents detailing what the girls had actually been exposed to during the brainstorm session, her response, etc.
I can't say this ended up any way other than how I expected it would all along. I am not unhappy with what the school felt they had to do and I am extremely pleased with the professional and thoughtful way the teacher handled all of it. She put so much effort into trying to come up with a solution that would work for all kids in the class and I am very happy that DD has her as a teacher.
I think it was handled very well and I have to admit I have a little soft spot in my heart for the all-girls advanced curriculum. I went to an all-girls high school and there were often times we discussed very intimate and controversial topics that would probably horrify people, esp. considering it was a Catholic school. That was the beauty and comfort of it being all female and I am very thankful for it.
I didn't have all the details when I wrote the first post. At that point, I only had the first email. The teacher and I had spoken at length 2 times by the time I wrote the update.
I still don't get it. Parents may not be ready for the topic, so don't look for information elsewhere? Bullshit
Some parents are never ready to discuss sex. Some parents are abusive/incestuous. Doesn't mean a child/teen shouldn't look for scientifically accurate information from a confidential reliable source.
But, what do I know? I've just been a PP volunteer since about 2004.
Post by irishbride2 on Oct 27, 2016 20:50:16 GMT -5
Oh my. I feel like most religious kids I know are taught to be pro life at a very young age. So I don't think a abortion discussion is off limits for kids.
Thanks to this election, I've had to talk to dD about multiple things I wasn't ready to talk to her about....and I had to scale down the conversations to make them age appropriate, such is life. I doubt it will be the last time that will happen.
I would not be upset if dd came home, even at age 6, and asked about abortion. I would just have to really think about what was the appropriate way to address is at this age. Would I chose to bring it up now? No. but if it gets brought up, it gets brought up.
I still don't get it. Parents may not be ready for the topic, so don't look for information elsewhere? Bullshit
Some parents are never ready to discuss sex. Some parents are abusive/incestuous. Doesn't mean a child/teen shouldn't look for scientifically accurate information from a confidential reliable source.
But, what do I know? I've just been a PP volunteer since about 2004.
I think context matters here. DD's teacher is fairly young (27). She is also the 7th-8th grade volleyball coach. And she spends her weekends mentoring at risk young teenagers through a program with Michigan State University. I can tell you with 100% certainty that she does not speak the same way to her 10 year old students as she does her 12-14 year old athletes as she does her 15-18 year old protégés because I have seen her in action. She would not tell a 14 year old to 'just keep waiting for your parents to talk to you" and she most certainly would not say that to an at risk 17 year old. But it is not unreasonable to say to a 10 year old.
I've gotta say, while I think she should be allowed to pursue the topic, I am very impressed with how her teacher handled things and would not be displeased with the school's response. Thumbs up to your daughter's learning environment.
You have a future leader with your curious daughter. She sounds like she really wanted to do the work on this and I think that is commendable. I think the teacher is also excellent here. I don't care for the decision that was made but at least it was discussed. One day she can do this paper she wants.
Oh my. I feel like most religious kids I know are taught to be pro life at a very young age. So I don't think a abortion discussion is off limits for kids.
Thanks to this election, I've had to talk to dD about multiple things I wasn't ready to talk to her about....and I had to scale down the conversations to make them age appropriate, such is life. I doubt it will be the last time that will happen.
I would not be upset if dd came home, even at age 6, and asked about abortion. I would just have to really think about what was the appropriate way to address is at this age. Would I chose to bring it up now? No. but if it gets brought up, it gets brought up.
I teach Humanities (7th and 8th) at a Catholic school and we discuss same-sex marriage and reproductive rights pretty regularly. These topics aren't off limits here and I don't assume that our families feel a certain way because it's a religious school.
4speedy, it sounds like your DD's teacher handled it really well. When my students plan their projects / topics (for the whole year) we require parental approval because some of them are controversial. Students present, in both grades, to the student-body (sometimes just the middle school and sometimes K-8) and we discuss the audience throughout the whole process. It can get uncomfortable, certainly.
4speedy- since your DD is still interested, do you think you'll let her research on her own with your guidance?
Yes, I really did mean it when I said I look at this as an opportunity to start a dialogue with DD. I don't think we'll sit down and discuss every nuance of the topic in one sitting. I'm pretty sure it will be an ongoing topic, as she's had time to digest information and think of new questions. I also really don't expect her to have an opinion that "sticks" until she is much older. I know that my opinion on abortion flip flopped several times as I matured. And now, even though my opinion has stayed the same over my adult life, the reasons I feel the way I do has changed as my life circumstances have changed.
I don't know if she is interested enough right now to do actual research, per se, but she will be looking for a balanced discussion with me. I'll do my best to give her unbiased and age appropriate info from both sides.
It sounds like I'll be doing my own researching in the near future.
I think it was handled very well and I have to admit I have a little soft spot in my heart for the all-girls advanced curriculum. I went to an all-girls high school and there were often times we discussed very intimate and controversial topics that would probably horrify people, esp. considering it was a Catholic school. That was the beauty and comfort of it being all female and I am very thankful for it.
I went to an all-girls Catholic school too and I guess that is why I was surprised that so many people were opposed to this being a topic covered.
Well it could have gone that way. Or, knowing my daughter and her friends, continued on
"What's abortion?" "When a lady is pregnant and has an operation and she's not pregnant anymore" or any variation of that
Kid comes home, "how does that operation work?" "why would a lady not want to be pregnant?" "what happens to the baby after?"
Again, I don't know whether or not I'd call, but I would certainly be anxious over the discussion forced upon me.
But but... that's what parenting is! I didn't want to have a discussion with my kid when he was 2 about what happens to us after we die, but my grandfather died and so I had to. If you don't think your kid is mature enough for that discussion you can tell them so. Answer the basic question with basic information and move on. But how uncomfortable you are with talking to your kid about a certain subject (whether it be death, abortion, sex, politics, whatever) couldn't be any less of my problem. It's your kid, you figure it out.
*not you, like you specifically, you more so the parents in the room who are calling
Agreed. And the cat's kinda out of the bag with this one. Regardless of whether she does the report on abortion or not, this girl knows what it is and there is nothing to prevent her discussing it with other kids. The topic is out there, research paper or not. Parents can't control everything that their child is exposed to. If the paper is for the teacher only, that is all that can be controlled. The girl won't give her opinion piece in a presentation. There's nothing stopping her from giving her opinion outside of the paper.