Please note that we aren't hearing about white folks calling the po po on janitors, landscapers, the ups man, black folks in uniforms, or any other sort of workers.
It's the perception of where black folks belong and how they belong there.
Nothing but a modern day pass system.
Very true. I also wonder if people were surrounded by more minorities than they realize growing up but they were invisible to them, precisely because they were doing the “acceptable” things. It would shatter the notion that there were just no available minorities to cultivate a relationship.
Please note that we aren't hearing about white folks calling the po po on janitors, landscapers, the ups man, black folks in uniforms, or any other sort of workers.
It's the perception of where black folks belong and how they belong there.
Nothing but a modern day pass system.
you are absolutely right.
It seems fairly obvious that white people are reacting to a fear of a power shift when a Black man became president.
Observed comments that support this: Since Obama was elected, Black people are walking around like they own the place
Obama is not the first Black President. He is half white. Why doesn’t he ever claim his whiteness since he is just as white as he is Black?
Race relations were fine until Obama started stirring things up with his rhetoric about continued injustices. He never should have injected himself in the Trayvon Martin and Ferguson issues.
White people feel threatened. We may not be in charge of manifesting our own destiny for much longer. What the fuck will we do when we are the minority?
I have no idea. I feel like white supremacy is up there with climate change in that while individual people are making changes and doing better, it's such a drop in the bucket in terms of overall impact that I do not see anything actually changing because the vast majority can't or won't even see how they contribute, let alone make changes.
Eta also add in the structural/policy/government side of things, where we'd need really sweeping change and instead we get lip service.
You are probably right. I went back to the Duke Ellington discussion on DCUM and now it has taken a turn that the kids were also at fault, they had to know what their parents were up to and how no college will touch them for being cheaters and the whole lot of them are “crooks” and they hope the feds look into the boundary scandal. This is just...illogical. People want the feds to look into whether parents paid tuition at one performing arts high school? Like who types that and thinks “omg I am so right”. Except people are agreeing.
I need to remember to stay away from there.
These made me think. I agree that you can’t easily change racism directly because it’s either a strongly held conviction or a strongly denied conviction (I.e. “I’m not racist) part of being white.
It reminds me of an interview I heard with Malcolm Gladwell on a podcast (not about race, but about strong convictions/ideals/knowns) where he said you can’t just change someone’s strongly held convictions/beliefs directly with facts, you have to challenge other lesser beliefs around that conviction until they have enough self-realizations to examine the stronger convictions themselves. That is a lot of work for anyone, let alone unrealistic to put back on black and brown people, to keep helping change little things and not even directly address racism.
It seems fairly obvious that white people are reacting to a fear of a power shift when a Black man became president.
Observed comments that support this: Since Obama was elected, Black people are walking around like they own the place
Obama is not the first Black President. He is half white. Why doesn’t he ever claim his whiteness since he is just as white as he is Black?
Race relations were fine until Obama started stirring things up with his rhetoric about continued injustices. He never should have injected himself in the Trayvon Martin and Ferguson issues.
White people feel threatened. We may not be in charge of manifesting our own destiny for much longer. What the fuck will we do when we are the minority?
Apartheid
F*** I meant that question to be rhetorical but my God it looks like certain people are headed that way. (White supremacists).
It is fucking Maslow’s hierarchy where white people dont get their (our) basic survival needs met unless they (we) are the oppressors. It is shameful and disgusting.
I'm going to start by saying I have always lived in a rural white bubble. Growing up as a little kid I did have one very good black girl friend until around middle school when she switched schools. But I really haven't had any other POC friends as a result of environment.
Where I grew up, our rival school was from a town that has a relatively large black population (maybe 25% of the students?), though I honestly wasn't aware of that until I was an adult because I never went there for sports or what have you. So even not knowing what I was doing I'd bad mouth the town just because that's what everyone did. So I perpetuated the stereotype of the black neighbourhood and school being "bad" out of pure regional habit.
I remember debating affirmative action in high school and coming away from the class with the understanding that reverse racism is a thing. Can't remember exactly how the conversation went though.
I was 30 before I learned anything about cultural genocide of First Nations people. That's quite a failure.
Again, I was 30 before I learned any more about black history than that we didn't have slavery and we (white saviour) saved all the American slaves (underground railroad). I had no idea black communities of were often burned, bulldozed and otherwise harassed by nearby whites who didn't exactly like competing for work or generally having non-whites around. I was taught to be proud of Canada's non-racism and diversity.
So I do feel like a lot of my personal racism is and has been due to a lack of education (whitewashed history of course) and just plain habit (among other things). If I don't learn how repressive my ancestors were/are or *actively* look at events from a different perspective how can I possibly understand the POV of black people and first nations?
I know that it's when I actually learned about these things—or had them shoved down my throat—that I realized how whitewashed my view of history and present day society is and I wouldn't otherwise believe in anything I was hearing (privilege, microaggressions, etc.) without understanding the broader context. I can easily understand why POC are portrayed as "angry" by white people willfully not seeing the daily abuse. I am sure I have many views still that I'm not woke to simply through pure ignorance. It's really easy to just stay in your bubble surrounded by people who all look and think the same way and were socialized the same way.
ETA: There were 95 posts when I started writing this so I have missed some conversation since then
Post by Jalapeñomel on May 15, 2018 8:10:31 GMT -5
I was raised in a household where Regan was god. His war on drugs, the welfare queen, etc. Somehow my dad managed to be successful despite being raised by a single mom and working in the steel mills of Pennsylvania, why can't everyone else?
Please note that we aren't hearing about white folks calling the po po on janitors, landscapers, the ups man, black folks in uniforms, or any other sort of workers.
It's the perception of where black folks belong and how they belong there.
Nothing but a modern day pass system.
you are absolutely right.
It seems fairly obvious that white people are reacting to a fear of a power shift when a Black man became president.
Observed comments that support this: Since Obama was elected, Black people are walking around like they own the place
Obama is not the first Black President. He is half white. Why doesn’t he ever claim his whiteness since he is just as white as he is Black?
Race relations were fine until Obama started stirring things up with his rhetoric about continued injustices. He never should have injected himself in the Trayvon Martin and Ferguson issues.
White people feel threatened. We may not be in charge of manifesting our own destiny for much longer. What the fuck will we do when we are the minority?
Also a lie. This is and always has been standard behavior for white folks.
You were programmed not to say it for about 20 years but Trump is in office so you guys are opening your mouth again.
But you sure as hell didn't stop thinking it or acting on it.
Nothing good ever comes out of DCUM. I also need to remind myself to stay out of there. The school boards are exhausting.
No the good thing that comes out of there is it reveals how racist and bigoted many of the professed liberals in this area are.
One woman just boasted with pride that she and some other parents are going to set up a meeting with the local FBI field office to look into the residency fraud at Ellington. The FBI. You know the same people who look into terrorism.
Please note that we aren't hearing about white folks calling the po po on janitors, landscapers, the ups man, black folks in uniforms, or any other sort of workers.
It's the perception of where black folks belong and how they belong there.
Nothing but a modern day pass system.
Very true. I also wonder if people were surrounded by more minorities than they realize growing up but they were invisible to them, precisely because they were doing the “acceptable” things. It would shatter the notion that there were just no available minorities to cultivate a relationship.
This makes sense to me. A good chunk of my formative years were with black kids and adults side by side with me and my family every day.
But I also acknowledge that not every family moves every few years. My dad is a white dude who worked for the same employer from college to retirement and that job forced our moves. At the time I hated it, but man I now see it played a huge role in how I see people around me.
Nothing good ever comes out of DCUM. I also need to remind myself to stay out of there. The school boards are exhausting.
No the good thing that comes out of there is it reveals how racist and bigoted many of the professed liberals in this area are.
Truth. I still rage at some bleeding heart liberals I worked with who would fight to the death for poor people from the safety of an office in Greenwood Village (it's exactly as it sounds), but scurried away from a friendly homeless guy trying to strike up a conversation downtown.
“Another issue is the working definition of racism most people hold. I think most white people view racism as active hatred of POC. In truth, I believe that most people who are racist do not actively hate them. They thus think they are not racists because they don't realize they are participating in a system that is racist in and of itself. People don't know that racism is a system and not just a feeling. Like, school funding-- comes from property taxes-- but home ownership is racist because of lending and laws... and high property taxes in some places that preclude non white people from living there, and so the system goes and goes.”
I was definitely taught the colorblind method as well at home that cville spoke on. I thought that was truly best. I grew up in Dallas and went to a fairly diverse large high school, where people of all races interacted with each other openly and easily. However, you always heard to not go passed Downtown or even some areas of Downtown. Looking back, it It wasn’t until I was out of the home that I realized that truly doesn’t help with regard to systematic racism. I didn’t see that simply being born white came with a large amount of privilege. I never viewed myself as that as since my mom was a single mom and my dad who was abusive.
Regarding what we are doing to change this: As a teacher I realize that I am working within a rigged racist system. This is something I struggle with. Education funding is unequal and racist as are standardized testing. School administrators need to be more diverse. I have only worked for 2 WOC in my years of teaching. Those two were my favorite principal and assistant principal I have ever worked for. I feel like it my job to help breakdown barriers for my students. Every school I have worked at as been a Title 1 school. Every school I have worked has had large minority populations, usually Hispanic. I received a message this year asking how I was able to get my Hispanic males to score just as high or higher than my white male students. That was concerning to me for 2 reasons: 1) how the educational and testing system separates our students out into subpopulation groups 2) the fact that this teacher does not know how to reach and educate minority students.
I know I want to make an impact on my students lives. I try to break down and teach the fact of privilege to my white students. I try to breakdown barriers and provide access to equal educational opportunities for my minority students.
On a personal life level- I try not to be an asshole, I recognize my privilege and that that in itself fuels the system. I try to be an upstander and not a bystander. I also realize that this may never be enough.
Are we going to be in our daily life and, as we spy a person of another race in our spectrum, use some critical thinking instead of a knee-jerk emotional reaction?
Are we going to stop getting a check in our spirit when we see a black man or woman in our environment who isn't service staff?
Are we going to stop asking "do they belong here?" instead of "why the fuck am I gripping because they're here?"
I just need white women to get their shot together because as a white woman, and mother of a child who is black, I will duck you up if you try it. I don't give no damns. none. I will blast you all over so people know who you are. It took time for me to do it with family but I've dropped people who are friends, or less, in a heartbeat.
Are we going to be in our daily life and, as we spy a person of another race in our spectrum, use some critical thinking instead of a knee-jerk emotional reaction?
Are we going to stop getting a check in our spirit when we see a black man or woman in our environment who isn't service staff?
Are we going to stop asking "do they belong here?" instead of "why the fuck am I gripping because they're here?"
These aren't rhetorical.
I don't see us changing. Specifically because as soon as something threatens our children, we're going to go right back to the hierarchy that places our children above all else. All you have to do is read the threads on MMM to figure that out. Threaten a white woman with an average child, or her child not getting special services because there are others with a greater need in the dwindling school resources... and all hell breaks out. Mommy wars are a thin veneer on a boiling pot of deep racism.
I think there is a strong correlation between Christianity and Racism- especially fundamentalists. I grew up with both and it gives me a insight into the psyche of “ accidental racists”. My father is feeling the hate, as a WASP baby boomer who has never had to curb his thoughts. It honestly *shocks* him when people react passionately to what he says, nonchalantly. He once accused my cousin of riling up his girlfriend,warning her that my dad was ultra conservative. I am sure my ( philosophy professor) cousin let her know how conservative he was, but my dad really doesn’t accept that his views are offensive.
My dad isn’t dumb. He’s honestly a smart man, he just chooses to ignore the gray, and sees the world as black and white. He has been conditioned his whole life, to lead an unexamined life. A six hundred year old man was able to build a boat that saved the world from an apocalyptic flood? The world is only 6,000 years old? Sure! If you can’t shake *those* beliefs despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary- how are we supposed to shake the deep-seated racism fallacies?
I think as our world gets smaller, people like the above will have no choice but to examine their views. I have seen how strictly religious people change when their friend’s kids are gay. I have seen how Conservatives change their notions on marijuana when a friend goes through chemo and uses the drug so they will eat. I have even seen how a whole family changes their tune on casual racism after a son married a black woman. The more human the victim, the more people’s beliefs are shaken.
Post by CheeringCharm on May 15, 2018 9:09:22 GMT -5
I think making a conscious effort not to live in all white communities would be key to breaking the cycle. Some people might not have a choice based on demographics but if you do have a choice, I think it's something you should seriously consider when weighing where to buy. And don't use Great Schools scores to tell you where to buy a house.
I have been thinking about this all day. I was having trouble articulating my thoughts on it. These white women aren’t calling the police because they are scared, they are calling the police because they think that black people are most likely criminals. They don’t believe that systemic racism exists. They think black people are just more likely to engage in criminal activity. When push comes to shove, though, they blame it on their gut, or suspicious behavior because they can’t admit it has to do with racism, they just *know*
This is shy these white women make a point in calling the police, talk calming to the police and wait around for them to come. They are some vigilante justice crusaders saving their community from black crime.
Yes, but the question here again is WHY? To think that black folks are inherently criminal and then act upon that thought requires you to ask - "what have I been taught, heard, seen etc. to make this my first thought."
That's what I need white folks to confront. Because two men waiting for a business associate is no different and looks no different across all races. So, I need folks to dig and say - where did I first get that message.
Then, you've got to say - ok - how do I make sure I don't unconsciously continue that teaching.
I have been thinking about this all day. I was having trouble articulating my thoughts on it. These white women aren’t calling the police because they are scared, they are calling the police because they think that black people are most likely criminals. They don’t believe that systemic racism exists. They think black people are just more likely to engage in criminal activity. When push comes to shove, though, they blame it on their gut, or suspicious behavior because they can’t admit it has to do with racism, they just *know*
This is shy these white women make a point in calling the police, talk calming to the police and wait around for them to come. They are some vigilante justice crusaders saving their community from black crime.
Yes, but the question here again is WHY? To think that black folks are inherently criminal and then act upon that thought requires you to ask - "what have I been taught, heard, seen etc. to make this my first thought."
That's what I need white folks to confront. Because two men waiting for a business associate is no different and looks no different across all races. So, I need folks to dig and say - where did I first get that message.
Then, you've got to say - ok - how do I make sure I don't unconsciously continue that teaching.
I think part of it has to do with how folks are apparently taught to call police in general. Like it would never occur to me to call the police in any of these situations. I think part of it goes into the neighborhood watch philosophy. Always be on the look out for trouble and the police are our friends they will help.
Please note that we aren't hearing about white folks calling the po po on janitors, landscapers, the ups man, black folks in uniforms, or any other sort of workers.
It's the perception of where black folks belong and how they belong there.
Nothing but a modern day pass system.
100% agree. White people "own" most of the spaces and POC are allowed where white people have let them - in their segregated areas, particular jobs, etc.. I think that's the underlying issue. Seeing black people where they don't belong, i.e. in the white spaces, is the underlying issue. The Yale thing is a perfect example. This was a white space and seeing a black woman where she "didn't belong" led to the fear and the cop calling.
So, if you are sitting in your neighborhood Starbucks in your white neighborhood in your diverse city and some black dude walks in...he doesn't belong so he must be feared. Like others have said, I think having interactions with some actual nonwhite people is where to start. But that's not the end of it. Because there are too many people that think poorly of POC, but not Bob at the office who is a POC, but Bob is not like "them" = he is different.
Are we going to be in our daily life and, as we spy a person of another race in our spectrum, use some critical thinking instead of a knee-jerk emotional reaction?
Are we going to stop getting a check in our spirit when we see a black man or woman in our environment who isn't service staff?
Are we going to stop asking "do they belong here?" instead of "why the fuck am I gripping because they're here?"
These aren't rhetorical.
I don't see us changing. Specifically because as soon as something threatens our children, we're going to go right back to the hierarchy that places our children above all else. All you have to do is read the threads on MMM to figure that out. Threaten a white woman with an average child, or her child not getting special services because there are others with a greater need in the dwindling school resources... and all hell breaks out. Mommy wars are a thin veneer on a boiling pot of deep racism.
It's why money in districts goes to certain schools and not others. white women and their children. blech
Yes, but the question here again is WHY? To think that black folks are inherently criminal and then act upon that thought requires you to ask - "what have I been taught, heard, seen etc. to make this my first thought."
That's what I need white folks to confront. Because two men waiting for a business associate is no different and looks no different across all races. So, I need folks to dig and say - where did I first get that message.
Then, you've got to say - ok - how do I make sure I don't unconsciously continue that teaching.
I think part of it has to do with how folks are apparently taught to call police in general. Like it would never occur to me to call the police in any of these situations. I think part of it goes into the neighborhood watch philosophy. Always be on the look out for trouble and the police are our friends they will help.
I also wasn’t taught to call the police unless there was violence. You told an adult if there was something suspicious or you questioned, but only called 911 if it was life threatening. That being said, we learned it somewhere - is it from our parents or communities or the police themselves? I would assume it is all and mprimariky the white police for the latter - the few police I know would think they are better at handling any conflict small or large than anyone else in public. It’s part ego and part what they are indoctrinated with, but their “handling” is not always a solution - often it exacerbated the issues of a small conflict.
Maybe it comes back to conflict resolution styles.
White women think they shouldn't have to commingle with black people. they view them as "the help" and f anyone ventures out of that class, they must be dealt with.
Yes, but the question here again is WHY? To think that black folks are inherently criminal and then act upon that thought requires you to ask - "what have I been taught, heard, seen etc. to make this my first thought."
That's what I need white folks to confront. Because two men waiting for a business associate is no different and looks no different across all races. So, I need folks to dig and say - where did I first get that message.
Then, you've got to say - ok - how do I make sure I don't unconsciously continue that teaching.
I think part of it has to do with how folks are apparently taught to call police in general. Like it would never occur to me to call the police in any of these situations. I think part of it goes into the neighborhood watch philosophy. Always be on the look out for trouble and the police are our friends they will help.
I agree with this. I mean, I joke about calling in noise complaints, but I’m calling the non-emergency line when I’m at the end of my rope at 3AM and have tried other avenues first. Calling 911 is for life and death stuff and that’s how I was raised. I will never forget how mad my parents were when my brother called the police to tattle on me when we were kids and the cops showed up at our house. You just did not call the police unless someone was dying or the house was on fire. There is a real problem with people not being able to just mind their own fucking business and it baffles me.
White women think they shouldn't have to commingle with black people. they view them as "the help" and f anyone ventures out of that class, they must be dealt with.
Is it this? I mean we are getting there with where black people are acceptable, but I didn’t grow up in the east or south and the few black people I knew were professionals or professors, never saw a black person even in service industry, and I still have bias.
I don't see us changing. Specifically because as soon as something threatens our children, we're going to go right back to the hierarchy that places our children above all else. All you have to do is read the threads on MMM to figure that out. Threaten a white woman with an average child, or her child not getting special services because there are others with a greater need in the dwindling school resources... and all hell breaks out. Mommy wars are a thin veneer on a boiling pot of deep racism.
It's why money in districts goes to certain schools and not others. white women and their children. blech
Everyone should be paying attention to Houston Independent School District. It is the largest school district in the state and its superintendent just left to go run NYC Public schools. Yet it is about to have $300,000,000 short fall and massive teacher and funding cuts. They are want to start closing schools. One of its many problems is with how they do educational funding for each school. It is not pooled together an allocated equally among all the schools in the district. Each attendance zone/area keeps what they have in terms of money. So high property value areas that generate more money keep that. Proverty areas generate less money so they are behind from the get go.
HISD has been asked if they will change there finance model for a more centralized equal school funding and they will not do so.
White women think they shouldn't have to commingle with black people. they view them as "the help" and f anyone ventures out of that class, they must be dealt with.
Is it this? I mean we are getting there with where black people are acceptable, but I didn’t grow up in the east or south and the few black people I knew were professionals or professors, never saw a black persons even in service industry, and I still have bias.
I think its racism mixed with classism. See asking anyone, but esp poc in a Target for help, seeing someone in athleisure in Nejman Marcus and assuming they can't afford or ar stealing. Hell, it's why we have Dick in WH
So what will it take for people to break the cycle? How is it that awareness is higher yet actions the same? Justifications are different but outcomes are the same.
I honestly don't think anything will change. It just isn't human nature. People are always going to want more for themselves and their progeny. There are only so many seats at the table. I know they say well then bring another chair, but eventually the space will run out. The only way to raise people up is for white people to actually give up their seat. And who the hell is going to do that? I am also not convinced that if black people or any other group had the power that we wouldn't be doing the same to keep that power. But I am rather pessimistic.