And all this from hearsay because she got the details from her goddaughter that of course doesn’t have a vested interest in making herself look good. So yes. This is the epitome of white woman tears. Stripping the accomplishments of a black woman to make the poor pitiful white girl look better.
Could you lick any harder? The only justifiable response to this is that you are clueless.
Several posters have commented that your posts - did actually do what I asked. What's happening now - if you don't take your ball and go home - is that people are asking you to peel back what you've said here and are asking the hardest question of all - what is it about this black student getting a different scholarship that has you so upset?
feva2030 I frankly hope you don't haul up and leave. Or keep dropping that this is all liberal speak - again, I'm not a liberal, I don't vote liberal. In fact, I come from conservative bootstraps roots and have fought with people on this board through (good LORD, y'all) over a decade.
And NitaX gets right to the crux of what the point of this thread is: even if we're mad or challenged - or maybe especially because we are - that's the very best time to pause, breathe, and ask why we're so mad and challenged.
I guarantee you it isn't because of liberal vs. conservative. That's too simplistic for the discussion taking place here. I invite you to dig deeper. I've been kept up at night sometimes because of discussions on here, but good Lord if that isn't the very best thing for me to really suss out my beliefs and what leads to them.
I'm sorry- I honestly don't have it in me for this bullshit right now. About 1/4 of these women are capable of actual conversation and the rest are just stupid assholes. Thank you for your insight and I apologize but I just can't with the prevalent stupid.
And all this from hearsay because she got the details from her goddaughter that of course doesn’t have a vested interest in making herself look good. So yes. This is the epitome of white woman tears. Stripping the accomplishments of a black woman to make the poor pitiful white girl look better.
Could you lick any harder? The only justifiable response to this is that you are clueless.
About ... ?
I still don't get why you're so personally offended by the roommate winning a scholarship that wasn't exactly the same package as what your goddaughter was offered. Do you feel that every single scholarship out there should be exactly the same? That all schools should charge the same exact tuition? That there should be universal criteria for college acceptance and scholarships?
And all this from hearsay because she got the details from her goddaughter that of course doesn’t have a vested interest in making herself look good. So yes. This is the epitome of white woman tears. Stripping the accomplishments of a black woman to make the poor pitiful white girl look better.
Could you lick any harder? The only justifiable response to this is that you are clueless.
But it's true. What was the purpose of your goddaughter telling you the situation of her roommate? That's the real question here.
feva2030 I frankly hope you don't haul up and leave. Or keep dropping that this is all liberal speak - again, I'm not a liberal, I don't vote liberal. In fact, I come from conservative bootstraps roots and have fought with people on this board through (good LORD, y'all) over a decade.
And NitaX gets right to the crux of what the point of this thread is: even if we're mad or challenged - or maybe especially because we are - that's the very best time to pause, breathe, and ask why we're so mad and challenged.
I guarantee you it isn't because of liberal vs. conservative. That's too simplistic for the discussion taking place here. I invite you to dig deeper. I've been kept up at night sometimes because of discussions on here, but good Lord if that isn't the very best thing for me to really suss out my beliefs and what leads to them.
I'm sorry- I honestly don't have it in me for this bullshit right now. About 1/4 of these women are capable of actual conversation and the rest are just stupid assholes. Thank you for your insight and I apologize but I just can't with the prevalent stupid.
What conversation are you hoping to have, exactly? Seems like there's plenty of conversation going on and now you're upset that it's not going your way.
- Your goddaughter could have made use of a scholarship. - Roommate got a scholarship specifically allotted to a non-white recipient. - Roommate, by your estimation, didn't "need" the scholarship because her dad is an engineer and she spent the money shopping. (more on that below) - You're salty because your goddaughter needed a scholarship and you think a black student squandered money your daughter would have put good use to.
Does that sum it up? What are we missing? And would you be willing to pause a moment to imagine how black godparents, parents, and sundry have felt through the years at seeing their daughters and goddaughters miss out on opportunities not because they didn't deserve them but because only white kids could get them?
Empathy much?
Also, for scholarship experts: is it routine for a college to cut a check directly to a student so they have cash, or does the money not to directly to the school? This lower-to-middle-class white girl never got a scholarship either, so I'm curious.
Don't know if this was answered, but it depends on how the financial aid office works and how the private scholarship is set up. I've written scholarship agreements that allow for this and agreements that don't allow for it. Usually, all scholarship money that does not allow for expenses such as "room and board or supplies" is credited to the student's account first to be credited against tuition. Then any other scholarship that does allow for those other expenses is credited to the account. After all that is reconciled, a student may receive a check that is to be used for housing costs, food, books and supplies. The reason this is done is because many students live in apartments, for example, and the student needs the actual money to pay the landlord. Some schools have the student buy their books and supplies at the student store first and charge them to a special account and that is taken from their refund amount before the check is cut.
You know, there is a daughters of the confederate scholarship. I am really pissed I can't qualify for that because I am black. GTFO with this nonsense. Why aren't you mad about the athlete (of all races) with a 1.5 GPA who got a full ride because they can throw a ball?
I'm way late to this thread but wanted to answer anyway. My maternal grandparents were white savior types. Much of their work was in public service (my grandfather was a minister and my grandmother worked with low-income women's groups), but they were both terrible people in their personal lives. My grandfather, the minister? He abused the children he was working with. My grandmother, the champion of women's rights? She would intentionally starve me when I visited her so that I didn't end up "fat like all the women [she] works with." They are the very embodiment of WASPs.
My paternal grandparents were straight-up racists and never tried to hide it, though they didn't acknowledge it either. They were born and raised in the mid west with silver spoons in their mouths. While they weren't members of the Klan, no one ever hesitated to use nasty words to describe a race (I do not recall ever hearing the N-word, but I know that my dad has used it. He knows better than to do it in my presence, but I've heard stories... all of them decades old, so maybe he's learned? Learned not to say it, that is. I doubt he'll ever learn not to think it.). I have lots of stories from my childhood that I can look back on now as a moment in which I remember thinking, something about this is not ok. Like when I asked my grandmother about the names of the nannies my dad and his sisters had growing up. Punkin. And I said, ok, what were the others? And she said, no, that's what we called all of them because it was too hard for the kids to learn their names. Or the time my brother made a joke about me dating a black dude and they protested about how "hard" my life would be. Or when my aunt and uncle adopted 5 children, two of whom are not white, and I heard about it for years. They would shake their heads and say, what were they thinking, inviting them into our family?!? And they never treated my cousins like they treated me (though apparently in my family, that's MY fault because I'm the favorite kid).
I mean, I was raised in it. Subtle, at times, and overt at others. And it wasn't just my family. It was my community, too. I went to elementary school with one POC. One. And later in middle and high school, there were more but we didn't mix. I was taught -- again, both subtly and consciously, depending on the "teacher," that black men were a danger to me. I honestly don't even know how to answer this question because it wasn't until I was in graduate school that I even realized how racist my family-- and I, by extension-- was.
Keep going. I feel like there has to be more to it.
Why aren't you having more authentic relationships with POC? Why haven't you benefited/stop caring the fears of your parents more fully? Why are you still saying a school is good because it has a population oh 98%white? Why are you settling in communities that lack diversity? I need more.
I know this thread has gone off track, but I didn't see anyone mention a fear of gentrifying. I would say I live in a diverse neighborhood and I do send my kids to the neighborhood public school (60% white)- but the diversity is offset by a large immigrant population who are highly educated and skilled due to an increase in tech jobs in the area. The number of black students in the school is decreasing slightly every year while other minorities are on the increase. So when you say "communities that lack diversity" I think it can be somewhat misleading because diverse =/= black, and as a white family in the city, I see moving to a black neighborhood as adding to the huge problem of gentrification that is ongoing in the city.
ETA: I know you're not saying it's as simple as moving to a black neighborhood, or that you'd even want us to move there. Just trying to add in some more thoughts to the discussion.
That's the type of avoidance of discomfort that I'm struggling to articulate, conveniently played out in this thread. I'm uncomfortable --> I believe that I deserve not to be uncomfortable --> I interpret this as anger or fear --> I lash out irrationally and double down on my pre-existing beliefs because clearly the issue must be outside myself. Rinse and repeat.
Post by miniroller on May 15, 2018 16:17:58 GMT -5
Liked as a left-handed scholarship recipient WOT?* 😜
Right. Sorry for the belated likes; I’ve obviously not been on too much, or should I say not as regularly, (& ashamedly only checked out the 45- thread). A large majority of the people who use the color of their white skin to feel superior are those who feel less superior in other ways- whether it be wealth, intelligence, looks, or talent. (Hence the gush of racism since Obama) I also know that this is more common sense (probably extremely obvious to some ((most?)) women on here). I certainly hope I’m not repeating or saying a very “Yeah. Duh.” contribution but felt like I needed to flipping say it upon reading previous, less informed posts & realizing not everyone here is as informed as we’d like to hope. Heck, I’M not as informed as I’d like to be, and super appreciate interactions/ information from the wise WOC on this board! But honestly- tearing down affirmative action as undeserved is so ignorantly uninformed, I have second (third?) hand embarrassment. Ugh.
I would also request that this be a discussion of the why, or what you learned from growing up or talking with friends or whatever that brings this out. This is a board primarily comprised of white women, so I don’t want it to be a discussion of “other white people”.
I’ve had this saved in drafts because I wanted to come back an answer when I wasn’t trying to get family out the door in the morning. So I know the discussion has moved on, and I’m going to go back and read, but I did want to provide my experience.
Your question has really led me to think back, because I do like to point to “other white people,” but in my heart I know that’s not true because I’ve consciously untrained myself from a lot of these thoughts (and if I’m being brutally honest with myself, I’m still doing the untraining sometimes, where I stop myself and say “no. That’s wrong and either based on a racist assumption or is just straight up racist. Rethink.”)
I didn’t grow up with overt racism and my parents are “liberal.” Like others have said though, I grew up surrounded by other white people and so black people were the “other.” And the other is inherently frightening. But more than that, it was smaller, but significant things.
I grew up right outside of NYC. And what was I told was the “dangerous” part of the city? Harlem. The unspoken thing that follows: Who lives in Harlem? Black people (historically. Gentrification by white people is another discussion for another day).
And in the town I grew up in, there was a “bad” side of town. It’s not actually a bad side, surprise surprise. It’s just poorer and has POC. And the public high school is “dangerous” so no one sends their kids there. No, the school is failing because all the upper middle class white people send their kids to private school (many because we’re Jewish and we went to Jewish schools but most because they didn’t want to send their kids to the public schools). But the school isn’t dangerous. There’s no violence there.
So there are a lot of coded words that were used to describe areas that are predominantly minority - the bad side of town, the school is dangerous, Harlem is “sketchy.” And all of it, now looking at it as an adult whose eyes are a little more open, is bullshit. The bad side of town isn’t bad, is working class and mainly minority. Same with the “dangerous” high school. And Harlem is one of the most dynamic and interesting parts of New York City and white people need to stop gentrifying it (and Washington Heights).
Post by cheesepizza on May 15, 2018 16:40:11 GMT -5
Haven't read since yesterday so many pages behind and don't know if this is repeat info.
I was raised and still live in the South by parents who are racists, who of course don't see themselves that way. So here's what I remember being discussed and taught growing up and have had to since unlearn. By no means do I agree with any of the bullsbit below...
Black people aren't like us and pretty much anything they do that isn't like us is wrong in some way. Their behavior is largely inappropriate (loud in public, dress inappropriately-i.e. sagging, rap music being loud and offensive). Because of this behavior they really don't deserve respect, at least the ones who act that way.
Other than locking our car doors when driving through "the bad side of town," I really don't remember being taught to specifically fear black people. I think a lot of that comes from what we see on the news or the fact that black people are overrepresented in prison. Nevermind the fact that white people have created laws to ensure that. It was because on a biological level black people had to be less than (less intelligent, less moral, less desirable) than white people. What else could explain why they didn't do well in school generally, needed government assistance, and lived in crime-ridden areas?
Also, I grew up with black people in the sense that there were black kids with me in school and played on sports teams with them, though I didn't live in a neighborhood or have other interactions outside of school. So for me, it wasn't fear of the "unknown" or only what we saw on t.v.
Basically I don't know that it's some fear we are specifically taught. Just run of the mill racism that allows us to continue to be assholes under the guise of fear.
I would also request that this be a discussion of the why, or what you learned from growing up or talking with friends or whatever that brings this out. This is a board primarily comprised of white women, so I don’t want it to be a discussion of “other white people”.
I’ve had this saved in drafts because I wanted to come back an answer when I wasn’t trying to get family out the door in the morning. So I know the discussion has moved on, and I’m going to go back and read, but I did want to provide my experience.
Your question has really led me to think back, because I do like to point to “other white people,” but in my heart I know that’s not true because I’ve consciously untrained myself from a lot of these thoughts (and if I’m being brutally honest with myself, I’m still doing the untraining sometimes, where I stop myself and say “no. That’s wrong and either based on a racist assumption or is just straight up racist. Rethink.”)
I didn’t grow up with overt racism and my parents are “liberal.” Like others have said though, I grew up surrounded by other white people and so black people were the “other.” And the other is inherently frightening. But more than that, it was smaller, but significant things.
I grew up right outside of NYC. And what was I told was the “dangerous” part of the city? Harlem. The unspoken thing that follows: Who lives in Harlem? Black people (historically. Gentrification by white people is another discussion for another day).
And in the town I grew up in, there was a “bad” side of town. It’s not actually a bad side, surprise surprise. It’s just poorer and has POC. And the public high school is “dangerous” so no one sends their kids there. No, the school is failing because all the upper middle class white people send their kids to private school (many because we’re Jewish and we went to Jewish schools but most because they didn’t want to send their kids to the public schools). But the school isn’t dangerous. There’s no violence there.
So there are a lot of coded words that were used to describe areas that are predominantly minority - the bad side of town, the school is dangerous, Harlem is “sketchy.” And all of it, now looking at it as an adult whose eyes are a little more open, is bullshit. The bad side of town isn’t bad, is working class and mainly minority. Same with the “dangerous” high school. And Harlem is one of the most dynamic and interesting parts of New York City and white people need to stop gentrifying it (and Washington Heights).
My grad school was (well is, but I graduated) in East Harlem.
I kid you not, we had an assembly the first semester it was open to address student concerns about "safety" and some (white girl, obviously) asked if the on campus security guards could walk people to the subway after dark. One girl asked me to walk with her (so my 4'11" self could defend her?! Like strength in numbers does not compute when you are the size of a 5th grader) after class. A girl I'd never met before. I admittedly failed in my reaction because I just put my headphones on and walked kind of with her, but I definitely should have spoken up.
Oh, this was a school for public health and social work. Things where racial biases are studied thoroughly. And we're supposed to learn how to combat them.
Seriously, please stop saying you are scared just because you don't like something or someone won't do what you want. My 4 year old does that. I don't accept it from her, so I am sure not going to accept it from grown women. If you really are that scared of every damn thing, you honestly need to seek help for that level of anxiety. And to be clear, I am not talking about people who have experienced actual trauma. I am talking about all the perceived nonsense. Find another word. Prejudiced is a good starting point.
I’m just amused that the obvious requires this level of navel gazing and reflection. I’d expect this from teenagers. Not women of 40 years old or damn near.
Seriously, please stop saying you are scared just because you don't like something or someone won't do what you want. My 4 year old does that. I don't accept it from her, so I am sure not going to accept it from grown women. If you really are that scared of every damn thing, you honestly need to seek help for that level of anxiety. And to be clear, I am not talking about people who have experienced actual trauma. I am talking about all the perceived nonsense. Find another word. Prejudiced is a good starting point.
I read most people's comments about fear being more along the lines of this line of social psychology theory about prejudice:
But man if it took THIS thread to start some self-reflection for anyone who has been on this board longer than a month, I don't know that there will ever be any hope.
No- absolutely no animosity to you or my goddaughter's friend. I do admittedly have animosity to idiots who think too highly of themselves and overestimate their intelligence and experience. I offered an explanation to your question that was unpopular on this board and the insults, accusations, completely made up rhetoric, and outright lies started swinging. Typical liberals, I should not have engaged. I'm really going to try an not read anymore responses. I'm really pissed and the more I read of this nonsense it just gets worse. I don't know you but you seem honest, intelligent, and straight forward - you have probably already realized that you won't get an answer of substance from this airhead, white liberal think tank. I'm sorry if I derailed your thread but hopefully I added some insight. Best wishes OP.
Despite the claims, this place can definitely be an echo chamber. This isn’t one of those cases. I don’t know if you are still reading but I have to respond.
You sound really angry. I’m not sure if you are anger with the system or this girl or this board but everyone is assuming your anger is directed at this girl which I why you are getting the responses you are. She did nothing wrong. You can argue that scholarships shouldn’t have race as a requirement. I have a long list of things I would like to see changed in admissions. I don’t think anyone should get in just because their parents went to that college (legacy), I don’t think athletes should get full rides, I got a $3,000 scholarship each year because I went to same school as my mom (I’m sure plenty of people don’t find that fair).
This has been said but there are A LOT of scholarships. I encourage you to google “college scholarships” and see how many pop up. If your goddaughter is still in college I would help her apply for some if she still needs money. Did she have helped in the application process? You said she didn’t go to a great high school, did she have support. I was awarded 5 scholarships after the admissions staff helped me find them and apply. Sometimes you just don’t know what you know. I’m guessing her roommate had someone in her corner guiding her on how to make it through this process. Don’t begrudge the girl, learn from it.
We all have things we need to examine in our lives. Some of the stuff you mentioned first about affirmative action doesn’t ring true with what I’ve seen or researched. Maybe you should look into it again.
I don’t know your life, I’m not going to call you a racist or republican or crazy or anything else. That’s not my call. I just suggest you do as others mentioned and really try to understand what about this situation really pissed you off vs what you wrote here.
For real.
I googled "college scholarships for African American" and this was the first link:
Post by secretlyevil on May 15, 2018 17:43:46 GMT -5
Even though my parents were in the military for awhile, looking back, my childhood was extremely sheltered. It was for a number of reasons, most of which I won’t divulge here. Most of my childhood was spent in a very rural area that lacked diversity. Even living near a reservation, the population in Northern Wisconsin is very white. I had no idea about coded language until this board introduced the topic to me but it was prevalent as I grew up. Big, urban areas were dangerous and I should be suspicious of “different.” Although most of my relatives proudly consider themselves pretty liberal overall, I was ignorant about culture differences, etc. Thankfully I went to college far away and began learning. Again, ignorance was bliss but eventually I became aware of my own subconscious behavior cued by the ingrained different i.e. doesn’t look like me is dangerous. Hopefully that answers the question. I’m uncomfortable with my bubble.
I’m just amused that the obvious requires this level of navel gazing and reflection. I’d expect this from teenagers. Not women of 40 years old or damn near.
Post by underwaterrhymes on May 15, 2018 22:16:48 GMT -5
I didn’t see this post until tonight because work is crazy right now and I’m trying to make an effort with being very present with my kids and my husband every night.
I don’t want to share another anecdote - even though mine is quite different than many posted here - but I’m glad you posted it and I’m grateful for the open discussions we have here even if it does feel like we spin our wheels a lot.
Honestly, I don’t think it’s just fear or ignorance that drives it. I really think calling the police on black people doing every day living is how they - in essence - bring back segregated lunch counters and water fountains. They want to have their own space and if they can’t do it legally, they’re going to take extreme measures to make it happen another way. I also think there is a certain amount of Lone Ranger BS that figures in. This greed, this sense of ownership is also the same thought process that drives people like the troll in this thread. This space, this neighborhood, this school, this scholarship is MINE and if you are also here, it’s because you’re taking it from ME or from someone like ME, so I’m going to do my part to make sure you get the boot so I can reclaim this for MYSELF.
I generally use “we” when I’m referring to white people shenanigans because I am white and because I don’t exempt myself (I’m vocal and will go toe-to-toe with strangers and loved ones alike, but there is more I could be doing) but I want to make it clear this is not an opinion to which I subscribe or behavior in which I participate.
It's taken days but I am finally caught up on the thread. I know the discussion has changed and moved on but I am going to address the original questions anyways.
I think so much of it is the subtle messages we heard growing up. I am a child of the 80's. It was definitely a we are a melting pot and "don't see color" era but also an everyone is out to get you era. Watch out for strange people offering candy on the playground, they may be offering LSD. (Yes, this was a real warning). Watch out for anyone that kidnap you at the park. Don't go with strangers. I mean, obviously you need to be aware of your surroundings and don't go with strangers is sound advice but it was all taken to an extreme. You'd think there were men with vans and candy on every corner trying to lure a child away. Yet, on the other hand, it was also the era of get out of my house, go play, and don't come back until dinner. Real conversations didn't happen, at least not in my house. We (children) had to be protected and sheltered from the "real world". I was left with what I overheard on the news and the subtle things I heard from my parents.
I live in Houston and have since I was 5. It has its problems but is a very diverse city. That diversity did not stop me from falling into the good school trap when buying a house. I mean sure I knew I wanted diversity and found it. Our local elementary school is around 55% white. On the other hand, it's also only 2% free/reduced lunch. Of course it's a highly ranked school...everyone can afford to supplement their child's education if need be and hire private tutors. Clearly I still have a lot more work to do.
What's the answer? I don't know. I do know that growing up in a very sheltered you must be taken care of era has produced a bunch of it's all about me white men and women. There is no critical thinking or common sense. It's all how does this affect me. I am trying to be much more open with my daughter than my parents ever were with me. We discuss the news, we discuss things happening at school, and I try to find out what she is thinking and why. I can only hope that the next generation will not grow up so scared and me-centric.