Reducing Car Dependence (@ content in posts)

[seeyalater52]

I don't drive, at all, so I win this game! (AND have no children, is there some sort of gold star environmental booby prize I can win for this combo?)

My family has one car, a honda fit, and even though I reference my long commute here (1 hour 10 mins) frequently, it's by commuter train. We could never get by living in another state from where I work if we didn't have access to this public transit option, so yay for that. My wife carpools me the 5 mins to the train station on her way to work and picks me up on her way home. It works well for us and really minimizes our use of the car. After living in Boston for 10 years we were used to not driving so it's a natural fit. We do live in a suburb so while there are many things within walking distance a car is necessary for some evening and weekend errands and things, but we typically only make one or two trips out per weekend, and if we are going out to eat or shopping or something we frequently walk when the weather is nice.

There is absolutely no way we could afford to live, even rent, if we still lived in the city where I work. We just don't make enough and have too much debt for that to be sustainable.

@
If we ever do have a child we won't make many adjustments, although my wife will do the majority of pickups and dropoffs as the driving parent and also the one who works much closer to our home.

[joy]

We live in the city and walk everywhere. Baby is walked to daycare and back every day. Husband walks to work. On rain or very cold days, we take the bus. Three lines drive by our house all day long.

@@

I also walked or bused to work until two years ago. Now I have to drive because I’m 25 miles outside the city, it’s a 45 min ride, it’s not close enough to walk from the train to station to my office and I need to be able to ger back in the city within an hour in case of daycare calling.

It is my hope and dream to get a job back in the city again because I’m desperate to walk again and have a calmer life not involving a car.

[aurora]

Apr 23, 2019 13:05:17 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Apr 23, 2019 12:51:50 GMT -5 wawa said:

Thanks for that contribution. I'll see what the CarMax down the street will give me for the kids.

Right?!

I understand that having kids has an environmental impact, but that’s a weird place to go. If we don’t have children to propagate the species, then why bother fighting climate change? We could sterilize everyone and go out in a blaze of glory!

OK, I’m exaggerating, and sure it’s worth considering the environmental impact of having a large number of children. But if we all stop having children, then in 25 years, we will have no taxpayers to fund necessary climate change efforts. Oh and also who the hell is going to provide us medical care when we’re 85?

Don't we also care about preserving a livable Earth for all of the other species here?

I do agree that the spiders are unlikely to provide our medical care when we are 85, though.

[aurora]

On the overall topic, thanks for challenging us to think about this again! I do commute by bus to my primary job location, but now that summer is here need to get back in the habit of riding my bike to the other (closer) one. I did it last week and realized I am out of biking shape.

[msmerymac]

I sometimes bike to the Farmer's Market, even though it's only 6 months a year. I need to not drive, but picking up the CSA box is more convenient with a car. However, I have a panier basket that works great for smaller grocery trips. The grocery co-op is also only .75 miles away, so I really SHOULD bike there. They even have bike racks. Church is another issue, but at least I usually car pool? Otherwise, most errands really could be accomplished on the way home from work.

My company, before I worked here, used to be located about 3-4 blocks from a commuter train. It's a reverse commute, so the schedule would be pretty crappy, but it was something. Now we're in a kind of rural location surrounded by hills. BUT working from home is an option! There have been times I've driven the 4 miles from my office to the train to take it into the city after work, then taken the train back to my car in the morning.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2019 15:34:46 GMT -5 aurora said:

Apr 23, 2019 13:05:17 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Right?!

I understand that having kids has an environmental impact, but that’s a weird place to go. If we don’t have children to propagate the species, then why bother fighting climate change? We could sterilize everyone and go out in a blaze of glory!

OK, I’m exaggerating, and sure it’s worth considering the environmental impact of having a large number of children. But if we all stop having children, then in 25 years, we will have no taxpayers to fund necessary climate change efforts. Oh and also who the hell is going to provide us medical care when we’re 85?

Don't we also care about preserving a livable Earth for all of the other species here?

I do agree that the spiders are unlikely to provide our medical care when we are 85, though.

Sure. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. It’s just a really fucking weird thing to be smug about.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 23, 2019 14:50:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

So now that everyone has said why they CAN'T do it, flip the script. What could you do to not commute by car. No negativity. Because I swear, I can't stand these posts because no one comes up with any solutions, just "blah blah blah can't."

Well, we actually bought walking distance to the train specifically so H would have a car-less commute. We only owned one car at the time. But his company moved him out of his city office and into another office. He has applied for other jobs in a more easily commutable part of the city, but hasn’t had luck yet.

I go days at a time without driving at all during the week, which is pretty nice. I’m able to get the kids to school, get to my gym and a nice grocery store all on foot or bike.

[audette]

Apr 23, 2019 13:34:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

Apr 23, 2019 10:30:55 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Well, we live in a rural area with no bike lanes and no mass transit. It would take me over 2 hours to get to work on a bike, if I wasn’t killed first.

We have instead been focusing on vehicles with better fuel economy, and limiting or combining trips as much as possible (I do errands on my way back from work instead of making a separate trip on the weekend). Next year C will be attending the school that H works at, so that will be one very short trip in the least fuel-efficient vehicle, and I make the longer drive in the more economical vehicle. For now I think that’s the best we can do.

So not calling you out specifically, but you were first so Im quoting you.

Curious what drew you (and everyone else in a similar situation) to that location specifically and if you have considered or would consider moving to somewhere that allows for a less car dependent lifestyle. Like what were the factors you weighed and do you see that changing for you in the future?

For myself, I've worked in four locations, three employers since we bought our house. We knew I was going to be job hunting when we were looking so we strategically located ourselves as central as possible in the metro area, along a transit corridor (crappy as it is...MARC Camden line for the locals), with at least SOME amenities within walking distance. (A park, some small retail, a coffee shop)

In retrospect I think it was the best choice we could have made given that my career has bounced between our two cities. This job is the first one I've had where my office is transit accessible. If I leave here, that aspect of the job hunt will be a Much bigger deal than it was previously, when I admit I only thought about what my drive would be like and not IF I had other options. Now that I have them I'd be loath to give that up. And knowing how the industry is moving, I don't think I'd have to. Employers in this field are starting to walk the walk not just talk the talk and locate themselves in multi-modal areas as an employee benefit.

We moved to this area (mid-sized mid-west town) because DH was active duty military, and was assigned to the base here.  We chose the specific house we live in based on the available rentals at the time we moved.  The rental market was crap.  Utter crap.  We could get a nasty-ass dive, and be marginally closer (but not walkable) to where DH works.  (he's now a civilian employee at the same base)  The base is not walkable - all access points to it are restricted from pedestrian access.  There is no safe bicycle access, either.


We looked at over 20 rentals when we were looking.  Some were farther from base than where we live.  Some closer, but frankly, of the places we looked at, only 2 were even acceptable, and we chose the one closer to base.  A few reeked of smoke.  Some were filthy.  Some were _really_ beat up frankenhouses - as in, the floors/walls were so off-square and there was so much poorly done "updating" that I wondered if the whole place was going to fall down around us during the walk-thru.  Even if we lived somewhere else in town, the transit options suck here.


Anyways, we stay here because, well, DH has a job.  We can't move to somewhere walkable for him, because it doesn't exist for non-active duty personnel.  Unless we choose to buy a house, we are stuck with crappy rental options.  We continue to rent because DH wants the ability to apply for other GS jobs as his civilian career progresses, and that might mean moving to another place, where, likely, we will again have poor rental options.


Being able to buy/rent a place that has good transit access and is walkable is a privilege.  It's not available to _many_ people in the US - either due to cost, access, lack of availability (outside of a handful of major metro areas, transit is spotty, at best in the US).  I mean, it's a bit laughable to hear about employers locating themselves in multi-modal areas as a perk - sure, that can exist in DC, or Chicago, or NYC, but they rarely do in places like Des Moines, or St. Louis, or Austin, etc...

[juliachild]

We bought our house about halfway between our offices. It ended up being 30-40 min for my husband and 25 for me. We took into consideration the walkability in the neighborhood. We have restaurants and local shops within a couple blocks of our house. Then this year I got a job that is within two blocks of our house. I walk everyday. Rain, ice, snow, or shine. So now there is just one of us commuting. H looked at taking the bus, but no routes connected. We live in the suburbs in the midwest. He is looking at jobs closer to home though. I love driving in general, but I feel great going without using my car the whole week.

We do all of our errands in one trip, but I really wish we had things like a grocery store and hardware store much closer.

[aurora]

Apr 23, 2019 14:50:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

So now that everyone has said why they CAN'T do it, flip the script. What could you do to not commute by car. No negativity. Because I swear, I can't stand these posts because no one comes up with any solutions, just "blah blah blah can't."

I always want to point out someone who has made it work despite the "can't" reasons in almost every case but figure it would come across as smug, make people more defensive, and lead to more "can't".

To your point, I should get some bike panniers to use for grocery store runs on all but the biggest days. I hate carrying groceries in a backpack, but my store is less than a mile away so there's really no reason to drive.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2019 13:34:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

Apr 23, 2019 10:30:55 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Well, we live in a rural area with no bike lanes and no mass transit. It would take me over 2 hours to get to work on a bike, if I wasn’t killed first.

We have instead been focusing on vehicles with better fuel economy, and limiting or combining trips as much as possible (I do errands on my way back from work instead of making a separate trip on the weekend). Next year C will be attending the school that H works at, so that will be one very short trip in the least fuel-efficient vehicle, and I make the longer drive in the more economical vehicle. For now I think that’s the best we can do.

So not calling you out specifically, but you were first so Im quoting you.

Curious what drew you (and everyone else in a similar situation) to that location specifically and if you have considered or would consider moving to somewhere that allows for a less car dependent lifestyle. Like what were the factors you weighed and do you see that changing for you in the future?

For myself, I've worked in four locations, three employers since we bought our house. We knew I was going to be job hunting when we were looking so we strategically located ourselves as central as possible in the metro area, along a transit corridor (crappy as it is...MARC Camden line for the locals), with at least SOME amenities within walking distance. (A park, some small retail, a coffee shop)

In retrospect I think it was the best choice we could have made given that my career has bounced between our two cities. This job is the first one I've had where my office is transit accessible. If I leave here, that aspect of the job hunt will be a Much bigger deal than it was previously, when I admit I only thought about what my drive would be like and not IF I had other options. Now that I have them I'd be loath to give that up. And knowing how the industry is moving, I don't think I'd have to. Employers in this field are starting to walk the walk not just talk the talk and locate themselves in multi-modal areas as an employee benefit.

The military assigns me to a new base every few years. Even if we chose to live on base, I still wouldn’t be able to bike to work (no bike lane, not safe, a little far). And it would be miserable (google military base housing issues). And then we would still need to drive pretty far to get to the grocery store, shops, school for H and C, child care, etc. We chose to live very close to everything else, but much further from my work. H’s school is close enough to theoretically ride a bike (it’s about 1.5 miles) but he has bad knees and it’s a busy two-lane rural road and not safe to bike on, but at least it’s very close.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2019 14:05:32 GMT -5 wawa said:

Apr 23, 2019 13:39:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

She’s active duty, so I’m pretty sure the military chose her location, not her.

Ok. Well like I said I was asking a general question to all posters just using @villianv and her situation as an example. I get the feeling you think she needed to be defended here, but I'm truly not calling her out. This is a huge factor in what I do for a living and I am genuinely curious about people's decision making process on where they live and where they work and their transportation decision making process.

I didn’t feel called out at all! Basically the city we live in wasn’t planned for shit. Everything is spread out. There is no reliable mass transit. No bike lanes. People need cars to get by here. It’s just not possible to live close to everything, so people generally have to pick work vs. school vs. whatever else (kids activities, grocery shopping, etc). I think urban and suburban planning is vital to reducing people’s reliance on vehicles, and unfortunate I have never lived in a place that was adequately planned enough that we could get by on even one car for our family. Maybe someday.

[seeyalater52]

Employers being located in a multi modal area is only helpful if the housing in proximity to that area is affordable to that workforce. The reality is that many people can not afford to live close to where they work, especially in urban areas with a ton of wealth stratification. There is a ton of housing located fairly close to my office if you can afford a 2.5k/month renter studio apartment or to purchase a 1 million dollar condo. Everyone else commutes. And how far they commute is directly correlated to the price they can afford to pay for housing.

I know Boston is a fairly HCOL city but it would surprise me if things were incredibly different in other major cities. In many cities public transit infrastructure helps to offset the car-dependence of those moves to the suburbs in terms of commute but obviously that is hit or miss.

[dexteroni]

Apr 23, 2019 13:34:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

Curious what drew you (and everyone else in a similar situation) to that location specifically and if you have considered or would consider moving to somewhere that allows for a less car dependent lifestyle. Like what were the factors you weighed and do you see that changing for you in the future?

We don't live in a rural area, but we did buy a house that wasn't near convenient transit.

The factors we weighed were (a) affordability and (b) being in a "cool" area - i.e. old houses with quality materials and interesting architecture, proximity to good cultural areas, dining, and shopping. i.e. not a sea of strip malls and chain restaurants. In my city, areas like that that are also walkable and close to transit were too expensive for us at the time we bought our current house. So we had to sacrifice something, and walkability and transit were it.

Pretty much everything we need on a regular basis is within a ~20 minute drive, and we thought that would be an ok trade off. And for many people it is - our area is frequently cited as a convenient and centrally located place to live. But we misjudged our preferences, and we definitely want to get back to an area with walkability and transit when we can. But financially, moving isn't in the cards anytime soon. The expensive areas are still expensive. Our financial situation has improved, but of course prices have risen. So here we are.

[audette]

Apr 23, 2019 18:25:15 GMT -5 aurora said:

Apr 23, 2019 14:50:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

So now that everyone has said why they CAN'T do it, flip the script. What could you do to not commute by car. No negativity. Because I swear, I can't stand these posts because no one comes up with any solutions, just "blah blah blah can't."

I always want to point out someone who has made it work despite the "can't" reasons in almost every case but figure it would come across as smug, make people more defensive, and lead to more "can't".

To your point, I should get some bike panniers to use for grocery store runs on all but the biggest days. I hate carrying groceries in a backpack, but my store is less than a mile away so there's really no reason to drive.

Because it is smug as fuck.

It is incredibly privileged to be able to live walkable/bikeable to work/school/daily errands.  For vast numbers of people in the US.  _Huge_ numbers of people.  To act like it's just a "oh, golly gosh, I didn't think about living close to work" sort of thing is ludicrous.


Come on.



I mean, if you want to focus on the positive, sure, I telecommuted for over a decade.  We were a single car household for a couple years.  When we lived walkable to the grocery store, I walked there with a backpack to carry home my groceries a couple times a week.  I've done transit when it was an option, and enjoyed the fact I could knit while getting where I needed to go.  I group errands, and try to minimize the number of trips I take.

But, let's at least attempt to realize these options are not viable for many people for a whole lot of reasons that are usually beyond their own choices.

[waverly]

I can’t really do much about the fact that my commute has to be done by car. But we live in a downtown area, so we can walk to restaurants etc when the weather is nice. I could work from home more than I do. It’s better for work to just be there, but my boss is very accommodating so I can work from home when I have appointments etc.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2019 14:50:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

So now that everyone has said why they CAN'T do it, flip the script. What could you do to not commute by car. No negativity. Because I swear, I can't stand these posts because no one comes up with any solutions, just "blah blah blah can't."

1. When I eventually get more say in my location, we can prioritize not commuting by car.

2. Telecommuting

3. Realistically we can do a much better job minimizing the impact of our vehicle choices — go for an electric car or hybrid (though an electric car would assume we lived somewhere with clean electricity).

4. Lobby for community planning to make biking safer and more feasible

5. Stay in the military long enough for H to get his second knee replaced so he can bike or walk distances again

[aurora]

Apr 23, 2019 20:39:03 GMT -5 audette said:

Apr 23, 2019 18:25:15 GMT -5 aurora said:

I always want to point out someone who has made it work despite the "can't" reasons in almost every case but figure it would come across as smug, make people more defensive, and lead to more "can't".

To your point, I should get some bike panniers to use for grocery store runs on all but the biggest days. I hate carrying groceries in a backpack, but my store is less than a mile away so there's really no reason to drive.

Because it is smug as fuck.

It is incredibly privileged to be able to live walkable/bikeable to work/school/daily errands.  For vast numbers of people in the US.  _Huge_ numbers of people.  To act like it's just a "oh, golly gosh, I didn't think about living close to work" sort of thing is ludicrous.


Come on.



I mean, if you want to focus on the positive, sure, I telecommuted for over a decade.  We were a single car household for a couple years.  When we lived walkable to the grocery store, I walked there with a backpack to carry home my groceries a couple times a week.  I've done transit when it was an option, and enjoyed the fact I could knit while getting where I needed to go.  I group errands, and try to minimize the number of trips I take.

But, let's at least attempt to realize these options are not viable for many people for a whole lot of reasons that are usually beyond their own choices.

Right, which is why I'm not refuting anyone here.

My second point was a direct response to pixy's request for more positives. It's what I can and should do better.

[anastasia517]

Outside of moving to the GTA or Ottawa, I can't live somewhere in my province with decent public transit. For two of the three cities I lived in as an adult, a bus coming once an hour was normal. If you were lucky, it would come twice an hour around rush hour. Since Canada has a ton of space and a lot fewer people than the US, things are pretty spread out and it's a vicious cycle of public transit being crap so people don't take it often, so they don't put money into it, so it remains crap, etc. The huge distances between things and the fact that we literally got 13 feet of snow this year (seriously, over 4m!) between October & April makes walking or biking impossible or nearly impossible half the year.

I live as close to my job and H's part-time job and university as I can reasonably afford, but unfortunately all 3 of those places are in the most expensive area of town. And since we are actually lower middle class (we make about 60-65% of the average for our province) rather than GBCN middle class, we cannot afford to be closer. I would love if we could, but that requires money we won't have for at least a couple more years.

[mssaint]

I prioritized proximity to metro and bus routes when I bought my house. I am .7 miles from metro and about 1.5 blocks from a bus stop.

I take metro to work most days. I drive occasionally, like this week I’ve been recovering from flu, and the walk from the metro to my office is too tiring. I am looking forward to getting back to it, although a man attempted suicide at my station this morning.

I can walk to parks, a grocery store, a drugstore, kiddo’s school, and restaurants in under a mile. I don’t always do it becaus I’m ADHD and terrible at time management so I have trouble leaving the house in time to add the walk time, but I’m working on it.

[yentl]

I walk to work 90% of the time. I used to bike, but I had an accident with another cyclist and have been a little anxious ever since. Philly has a really large amount of cyclists relatively speaking but terrible bike infrastructure/know how and it makes cycling a little intense. Sometimes it makes walking a little intense, too, because cyclists will ride on the sidewalk if they don't feel safe on the road... or they just don't care.

My mom once was talking to me about how great it is that I am able to walk to work. At the time, she lived approximately 1 mile from her office. She could easily walk to her office but came up with several reasons why that absolutely wasn't possible. They were completely ridiculous.... like her hair would get flat. Some of this is a state of mind thing because we are conditioned to drive everywhere without a second thought.

Adam Ruins Cars is a great watch regarding this kind of thing. The thing that stuck out to me in the episode was that it doesn't matter how much we increase infrastructure/roads/highways.... that traffic will not get better. As conditions improve, more people shift to driving and fill in the gaps. That's so depressing to me.

I know walking/cycling/public transport doesn't make sense for everyone and sometimes it is what it is. But for me, if it's feasible it is so worth it. The change in my physical well being and mental health when I drive every day vs. don't is pretty significant. I am also hopeful car shares/uber/etc might help transition us away from our dependence on cars at some point.

[Velar Fricative]

I’ve only known how to drive a car for four years and I hate that I feel so dependent on it. I may live in the boonie part of NYC, but it’s still NYC. It suuuucked when my car was in the shop for two weeks recently.

I sat here thinking about pixy’s question thinking I had great answers but...nope. Suddenly an “I can’t” reason pops up that makes a solution seemingly impossible. Sigh. I do miss when I couldn’t drive so I couldn’t make excuses.

[mskitkat]

Because of this conversation, I looked up in google maps how I could take public transit to work. It couldn’t even calculate a bus route for me. When we bought our house, it was 13 minutes from my job. Now I work about 45 min away. My house is very walkable to stores, restaurants, the farmers market though, and we typically walk the mile to get to those places, even though our neighbors think we are nuts.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 23, 2019 20:39:03 GMT -5 audette said:

Apr 23, 2019 18:25:15 GMT -5 aurora said:

I always want to point out someone who has made it work despite the "can't" reasons in almost every case but figure it would come across as smug, make people more defensive, and lead to more "can't".

To your point, I should get some bike panniers to use for grocery store runs on all but the biggest days. I hate carrying groceries in a backpack, but my store is less than a mile away so there's really no reason to drive.

Because it is smug as fuck.

It is incredibly privileged to be able to live walkable/bikeable to work/school/daily errands.  For vast numbers of people in the US.  _Huge_ numbers of people.  To act like it's just a "oh, golly gosh, I didn't think about living close to work" sort of thing is ludicrous.


Come on.



I mean, if you want to focus on the positive, sure, I telecommuted for over a decade.  We were a single car household for a couple years.  When we lived walkable to the grocery store, I walked there with a backpack to carry home my groceries a couple times a week.  I've done transit when it was an option, and enjoyed the fact I could knit while getting where I needed to go.  I group errands, and try to minimize the number of trips I take.

But, let's at least attempt to realize these options are not viable for many people for a whole lot of reasons that are usually beyond their own choices.

And still not one positive. Lol! Ok. It’s also smug as fuck to assume everyone has reliable transportation to not have to deal with shitty public transportation, but whatevs. I can play this game all day.

[pixy0stix]

No. No, wait. Now I'm pissed off. You want to know what is smug as fuck? Bringing up "the poors" every fucking time we have a discussion about things like this, and how it doesn't work for people because they can't afford to xyz. To justify why YOU don't do it. Which is fucking LAUGHABLE on this board, of all boards.

[audette]

I suppose for the intent of the thread - how can we reduce the amount we use our cars (which reduces the amount we depend on them). Not all of them are available as options for everyone (or even most), but it does no harm to list them and try to keep them in mind, if possible.

Some potential things to do:
1) Staying up to date on the local travel options, be they rideshare, transit, bike routes, walking paths, etc, and if you have the ability, try to effect change at the local level to make these options more accessible. Even just getting pedestrian lights are major intersections can help improve walkability.
2) If you are moving house, try to consider the walkable/transit/bike paths/etc options. It isn't always possible, but keeping it in mind as one of the selection criteria (among others) is helpful.
3) Keep access and routes in mind when looking for work. (yup, this is easier said than done, I say as a woman who is basically applying to anything within an hour commute of home that I can qualify for)
4) See if having a single vehicle is an option for your family unit. Maybe your area has zipcars, or carshare type things - at least look into them.
5) Next time a vehicle purchase comes up, consider the options and their environmental impact. Perhaps a hybrid or all electric car is possible, budget-wise. (I mean, it might not, but it doesn't hurt to check.) Or look for vehicles that are more fuel efficient - these may be more financially accessible.
6) Try and group errands when you go out, so as to work thru them most efficiently.
7) See if telecommuting (even part-time) is an option with your employer.
8) Look into an electric-assist bicycle, if there are safe routes to use to/from places. These can make farther or hillier trips more accessible.


I am sure there are more. I have done some of these previously, but can't do them all right now. However, knowing about them may help me modify my future behaviour.

[pixy0stix]

No wait, I have more. You had the luxury to not live in the shitty places. The luxury to be able to have transportation to move further out. That is the height of privilege right there.

[pixy0stix]

So to summarize- middle class and upper middle class women are arguing about privilege while most scientists give us about 10 years before we hit the “end of the world” tipping point. And people can’t give up their minivans because they need to carry their kid’s soccer shoes. Full circle to the OP.

[dreamcrisp1]

I live in a country where public transit and biking are prioritized over cars and I love it. I walk or take the tram everywhere and my H bikes to work. The dog goes in the bike, on the tram, or walks with us when we take him. Kids are added to the bike with a bakfiets (bike basket) or can go on the tram with me. My stroller may have cost a fortune but it needs to be city friendly because it will maybe go into a car 2 times. You don’t need a ton of stuff for your kids; all the parents here do just fine with only their bicycle and bike baskets.

When we lived in Toronto, we chose a smaller house so that we could both walk to work or public transit everywhere. If we move back, we plan to live along the Train line so that we don’t have to drive. We both hate cars and hate driving.

I do at least 5 KMs of walking per day and most days it’s more like 8-10 KMs. We have to walk everywhere - to school, to the grocery store (then carry those heavy groceries up 3 flights of stairs), to workout, etc. but I would never drive. I don’t miss having a car 99% of the time.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2019 23:36:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

So to summarize- middle class and upper middle class women are arguing about privilege while most scientists give us about 10 years before we hit the “end of the world” tipping point. And people can’t give up their minivans because they need to carry their kid’s soccer shoes. Full circle to the OP.

In this case, I think our best bet is to leverage our privilege into political capital to fight like hell for those things we can change.