Post by karinothing on Feb 12, 2020 10:54:31 GMT -5
While I 100% believe Mayor Pete is riding on the coattails of mail privilege, I don't necessarily think comparing him to Warne Messam, who actually suspended his campaign in November, is fair.
Pete is also a veteran, has a history of working on the hill and in politics in general, is a fellow for the Truman National Security Project providing expertise on Afghanistan and Iraq since 2005. He was also consultant for a variety of industries and the federal government. Pete has likely been grooming himself as long as he could remember to be president, which is 100% white privilege and I agree that has major issues. And while I take issue with comparing him to Messam, it is absolutely ridiculous that he is doing better than Kamala, Warren, Castro, and well pretty much all the big name candidates.
This is why having these states go first sucks. Everyone is strategizing based off of where some white people decided to stand in a school gym. Bernie was always going to do well here.
I think Biden gets a huge jump in the next states, particularly the southern states. I know people don’t like him, but he’s still polling well above anyone else with the black vote. Pete and Amy have a huge hill to climb to get any numbers close to what Biden has.
Warren will do way better from now on, I think. Her ground game is crazy big and I think it will fight back in time.
Bernie may get Nevada and California. But he ain’t getting the south. Florida is a hard no for him. Period.
Imagine a black female mayor of a small city saying the exact things he does. Is she the front runner of the Democratic nomination?
Doubtful, which is where I do think Pete does benefit. Elizabeth and Amy both benefit from their whiteness too, even though being a woman puts them at a disadvantage. It's not coincidence that everyone left in the race is white. I just think Pete is not exactly the same as all the other white men who have run before. He's breaking a glass ceiling that previously existed for an LGBTQ person. I guess it is frustrating that the first LGBTQ person to do that is a white male and I imagine it would still be hard for a woman, POC of either gender, or trans person to get this far... but I do think it's significant nonetheless.
It is significant. I love the visibility for LGBTQ people.
But I don't think he has the experience to lead or the ability to win. And, perhaps it's my (former?) love of politics or experience or whatever in my background that leads me to say this, but let me tell you Ivy league + military service + stable marriage + full head of hair + local government service is DIME A DOZEN. He's not unique. I am personal friends--not through politics--with no fewer than 5 white men who fit this description.
So I'm not impressed by it. I'd be impressed by a track record successful policies, a history of groundwork and coalition building, a victory in a statewide election even. He doesn't have that.
Eta: and if he got that experience and track record, I'd be happy to vote for him. His ideas are good. But right now he's the young version of Bernie--ideas only.
Doubtful, which is where I do think Pete does benefit. Elizabeth and Amy both benefit from their whiteness too, even though being a woman puts them at a disadvantage. It's not coincidence that everyone left in the race is white. I just think Pete is not exactly the same as all the other white men who have run before. He's breaking a glass ceiling that previously existed for an LGBTQ person. I guess it is frustrating that the first LGBTQ person to do that is a white male and I imagine it would still be hard for a woman, POC of either gender, or trans person to get this far... but I do think it's significant nonetheless.
It is significant. I love the visibility for LGBTQ people.
But I don't think he has the experience to lead or the ability to win. And, perhaps it's my (former?) love of politics or experience or whatever in my background that leads me to say this, but let me tell you Ivy league + military service + stable marriage + full head of hair + local government service is DIME A DOZEN. He's not unique. I am personal friends--not through politics--with no fewer than 5 white men who fit this description.
So I'm not impressed by it. I'd be impressed by a track record successful policies, a history of groundwork and coalition building, a victory in a statewide election even. He doesn't have that.
Eta: and if he got that experience and track record, I'd be happy to vote for him. His ideas are good. But right now he's the young version of Bernie--ideas only.
Agreed. If the Democratic nominee wins, they're going to have a mess of epic proportions to try to clean up, and we're going to need competent and experienced leadership more than ever.
I think Pete has a future in politics if he sticks around and gains some more experience, but I don't think he's the best choice for this election.
Post by miniroller on Feb 12, 2020 11:08:42 GMT -5
This is what completely pisses me off, definitely recommend the read: Sanders has a bizarre radical past that Trump and Republicans would use to destroy him www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/10/bernie-sanders-radical-past-donald-trump-attack-fodder-column/4706779002/ ...There is a reason South Carolina Republicans and conservatives are trying to help Sanders, and GOP ad makers are drooling at the prospect of running their man against him. With skeletons like these dangling in closets without doors, Sanders is destined to fail as a general election candidate, perhaps in a 49-state rout. (He might carry Vermont.)
I’m pretty positive Sanders would attempt to pick AOC.
This morning I’m back to being undecided, erring on the side of wanting to just consolidate. I just have to see what SC and NV do.
ETA: I’m enthused by the takes this morning that Bernie seems to be underperforming and things are likely to change. He can sell a 2% win, but that should have been much higher.
My local indivisible group leans towards Bernie it seems more recently. But many who don’t, but also agree to vote blue, would like him to pick Amy as VP if he gets the nom to draw in the more moderate crowd. I am still very much undecided on my choice and guess I’m glad that PA’s primary is not until the end of April so I have more time.
Post by turnipthebeet on Feb 12, 2020 11:28:52 GMT -5
I skipped a couple of pages. I have noticed Warren talking more and more about "my friend Amy" and congratulating other candidates. I think that this will be noticed as the campaigns move forward. Amy and Pete will have to work swiftly to set up campaigns in other states, and I don't know that the funding is there. Liz extending that olive branch is a good look now - she knows that IA and NH aren't the be-all, end-all.
Also, this is a good pick-up for Buttigieg:
State Rep. @jamooreforsc15 picks @petebuttigieg. Moore is a first-term lawmaker who initially backed California Sen. @kamalaharris last year, frequently appearing on cable networks to advocate for her candidacy.
Not that it matters, but I would be curious to know how Harris would be doing if she was still in it. If I remember correctly, she was polling ahead of Amy when she dropped out. I wonder if there would have been a similar surge had she stuck around.
I think what is happening with Bernie is exactly why we ended up with Trump. There were a lot of republicans that hated him, but they were splitting the vote between the more "normal" candidates. (In quotes, because as normal as a Republican can be in my book). It allowed Trump to end up at the top of the pack, just like Bernie. I guess the optimistic point of view is that we never thought Trump could win in the general and he did. So, maybe there is hope for Bernie. Since I'm a pessimist, I don't actually believe this is the case.
Still, it is early so I'm not going to write off anything yet.
I was thinking about this too re: Harris. She was already being attacked by Bernie supporters for being a "cop" so I would expect more of that if she were still on the race, but she still could have seen a surge anyway. We will never know.
While Bernie picking Harris as his running mate would salvage this ticket monumentally for me since I'd expect her to become the first female president during his term if they won, I can only imagine the vitriol from Bernie supporters. ESF is right, if he picks an eligible AOC-type they will alienate so many people, but if he picks someone like Harris, they will also alienate some people, but they'd be alienating BernieorBust people who may not have otherwise voted for anyone else anyway soooooo...let's hope Bernie does the smart thing here if he wins the nomination.
I disagree that Bernie picking a moderate as his running mate would keep the Bros home. It all seems a bit cult-ish to me and I think they will still rally behind him. I just can't see them turning on him.
I’m pretty positive Sanders would attempt to pick AOC.
He can't. The age limit is 35. She is 30.
Of all the *things* this election this one irrationally annoys me the most. My husband who is very smart and plugged in to politics said this yesterday and I gave him a death stare and said HE LITERALLY CAN NOT.
Of all the *things* this election this one irrationally annoys me the most. My husband who is very smart and plugged in to politics said this yesterday and I gave him a death stare and said HE LITERALLY CAN NOT.
I said it here before I remembered how old she was. *shrugs*
Of all the *things* this election this one irrationally annoys me the most. My husband who is very smart and plugged in to politics said this yesterday and I gave him a death stare and said HE LITERALLY CAN NOT.
I said it here before I remembered how old she was. *shrugs*
Like I said, I’m being irrational about it. I mostly just don’t want to think about Bernie making it far enough to pick a running mate.
I disagree that Bernie picking a moderate as his running mate would keep the Bros home. It all seems a bit cult-ish to me and I think they will still rally behind him. I just can't see them turning on him.
Yeah, any choice Bernie makes is perfect according to them.
But OMG, it would be so tone deaf to nominate someone in the same vein as AOC as running mate.
Harris wasn’t running a great campaign. Agreed. Bernie Bros didn’t help though. I think they were mostly afraid of her because she could have been fire.
I do think Harris could have successfully bridged all the factions in the party in a way no other candidate right now can.
I don’t disagree. There just wasn’t a way to rebuild her team and set up the infrastructure in time. Maybe if the moderate field had been less crowded from the start.
But this is why I'm not as exasperated by Biden as others and why I find him to be one of the more appealing candidates remaining (Warren is still at the top for me though). Where exactly are all of his POC supporters going to go? I don't think Buttigieg or Klobuchar will be beneficiaries despite being moderates like Biden. Warren is a strong possibility for some, but I suspect Sanders will actually grab a few votes too believe it or not. This could be why Bloomberg's numbers among POC have gone up. And then we get to the point where we're relying on POC to save the country when they've been trying to save the country for yeeeeeears now and I don't like that and they damn shouldn't either. So if they're still on Biden's side, I will be too.
Post by Velar Fricative on Feb 12, 2020 12:32:41 GMT -5
I know in hindsight we feel that there were too many damn people in this race, but OTOH we got here because there didn't seem to be *enough* people in 2016 because HRC was the chosen one from the start. So how about we stick to like, 5 or 6 in the future, with no Tom Steyers or John Delaneys please.
I skipped a couple of pages. I have noticed Warren talking more and more about "my friend Amy" and congratulating other candidates. I think that this will be noticed as the campaigns move forward. Amy and Pete will have to work swiftly to set up campaigns in other states, and I don't know that the funding is there. Liz extending that olive branch is a good look now - she knows that IA and NH aren't the be-all, end-all.
All of the women have been doing that since the beginning, especially the senators. Except for the weird thing btw Harris and Warren over banning Trump from Twitter, which whatever, they have not gone after each other and have actively lifted each other up multiple times. All the way back to when Gillibrand was still in it. It has been noticeable and while I think there is certainly some strategy to it, I also think it is a genuine and automatic response to knowing you're fighting privilege much more than you're fighting each other. Booker and Harris had the same dynamic as the two black candidates, and Booker also supported the women as well.
I heard on MSNBC that the turnout in NH yesterday was higher than 2008. If that is accurate, Bernie winning by a small percentage point while #2 and 3 are moderates tells me that the revolution is dying.
ETA: see pixy’s correction below. Turnout was higher than 2016.
I heard on MSNBC that the turnout in NH yesterday was higher than 2008. If that is accurate, Bernie winning by a small percentage point while #2 and 3 are moderates tells me that the revolution is dying.
I saw that, and it was lower (or steady?) in Iowa so I don't know what to think.
ETA: Shit never mind, I didn't even bother to read the actual year and assumed it was 2016. Carry on.
I heard on MSNBC that the turnout in NH yesterday was higher than 2008. If that is accurate, Bernie winning by a small percentage point while #2 and 3 are moderates tells me that the revolution is dying.
I think it’s the opposite. It was way higher in 2008.
So, Pete is not my first choice but I am a little curious why he is always glossed over as being nothing more than white male privilege. He has that, yes, but he's also gay, which means he hasn't benefited from being white and male the same way as most. I think having a gay man doing this well is actually pretty amazing. He is the same age as me, and we both are from the midwest, and I know he grew up in a world very different from what it is today where he probably was not loved and accepted by his peers and probably struggled a lot to find his place in the world (not that kids today necessarily have it easy, but 20+ years ago I witnessed first hand just how hard it was and I'm glad we've had a lot of progress there). To have a kid like that grow up to run for President and actually have a true shot at becoming the nominee - that's big, even if we aren't in love with him otherwise.
He's young and his only elected experience is being the mayor of a tiny town. Only a white guy could possibly have gotten the attention he's gotten. Case in point - ever heard of Wayne Messam? He's a black man who is the mayor of a city in Florida that is bigger than South Bend, who was also running for the Dem nomination. He dropped out today. And then there's Castro and Booker, who served as mayors of much larger cities, have comparable if not more impressive academic credentials, and had additional experience on the national stage, both of whom were dismissed by the media.
I don't want to make light of his experiences and struggles as a gay man. Yes, he's had his challenges and I think it's really incredible to see a gay person winning states and commanding respect. It makes me proud to be part of this party,but I can feel that and feel deeply saddened by what his victory says about everyone else in the race.
Can you honestly say that you don't see how he can be the beneficiary of privilege if he were to win? Are you not bothered by the idea of a small town mayor on the helm, with someone like Harris, a prosecutor, head of one of the largest state agencies in the country, and a sitting senator, to be his sidekick, promoting his experience and readiness for office?
For what it's worth as Resident Gay I agree with you completely here. Pete reminds me of many, many shitty cis gay guys who have immense white male privilege and are racist and generally clueless about people who have experiences who differ from theirs.
You can recognize that his run and the traction he is getting is historic without overblowing how disadvantaged he is for being gay. He's precisely the type of "safe" gay person that old white moderates love and he's leaning into that hard.