That was my first thought. He was a heart attack away from being POTUS for 8 years. But I could also see how she might have not wanted to rock the boat during the Obama years and that since Obama was young and seemed healthy, the risk wasn't high of him becoming POTUS. And we all know how women are hesitant to come forward about public figures anyway. So I wouldn't dismiss her allegations because he was VP.
Beyond that though? Her claims should be fully investigated and not outright dismissed. There are things that make me skeptical about her claims and I know "believe women" doesn't mean "believe women at all costs even if there is evidence that the allegations are untrue," but the way the Ds get around this is by taking the claims seriously and supporting the investigation.
See, to me, priority #1 shouldn’t be how “the Ds get around this.”
Look, I hate Trump as much, if not more, than most, but this is why some people are rightfully calling out the hypocrites right now.
I am not sure what to believe with respect to her story. I don't believe that basically all media is holding off on major stories about her claims because they want to cover for Biden. I think it's far more likely that they haven't (yet?) been able to confirm substantial pieces of her story.
All of that said, I'm feeling some kind of way about suggestions (if her claims are true) that I should vote for the lesser of two rapists. The Convention is still months away! If the allegations are true, we have got to find a way to nominate one of the many other excellent choices we have who haven't raped women.
If they are not true, we need to find some kind of way to demonstrate that.
Can the DNC ask one of the drop outs to come back? I honestly have no idea what could be done to resolve this should her accusations be true.
There's a medium article circulating (which i'm not going to repost because its just a medium article) that claims that in 2017, she was retweeting positive tweets about Joe Biden, that in 2009 she wrote an article about domestic violence that praised Biden for his efforts, that mentions the way that she teased releasing these allegations on twitter (with a tweet that said "tic toc" in response to a tweet from Ryan Grim on 3/3/20), that she did not disclose the sexual assault in 4/3/19 when she dislosed that Biden touched her inappropriately. There is also a lot of weird shit about Russia and praising Assange that i don't think is relevant to this allegation but still really odd. Anyway, i'm trying to be open minded about this but i don't think that any of this is straightforward.
Taken in conjunction with the intel report on Russian InfoOps taking advantage of the MeToo movement, I’m also reserving judgment. We live in a time of Believe Women and we live in a time of Diamond and Silk (for those who don’t know, they tried to become famous off of BLM but switched gears to the Trump cult). The allegations are serious and should be treated as plausible but I’m not ready to jump to “Biden should quit” yet.
I don't know one way or another what I believe, but I know this should be investigated thoroughly.
I am just so demoralized by this entire campaign cycle.
I tend to feel like I am resigned that Trump will win because I am not expecting assault victims or super socialists to vote for Biden. I understand if you have a boundary, even if it means no win for D’s. I just can’t imagine how this gets accurately vetted - it was decades ago when it is completely feasible that this was reported and not recorded/investigated and it wouldn’t be odd at all for a victim to give up after reporting and no action by a committee. Plus it might just be something that can’t be fixed. Why do we expect GOP women to vote their consciences if we won’t or can’t do it ourselves?
Post by claudiajean on Apr 13, 2020 17:21:22 GMT -5
I think the Democrats should as a party try to choose a replacement they can nominate at convention. They can’t effectively call Trump voters out as being willing to vote for a rapist if the party leaders are willing to nominate someone with these allegations unaddressed (not to mention previous allegations of making other women uncomfortable even if not crossing to legal harassment/assault).
I am not sure what to believe with respect to her story. I don't believe that basically all media is holding off on major stories about her claims because they want to cover for Biden. I think it's far more likely that they haven't (yet?) been able to confirm substantial pieces of her story.
All of that said, I'm feeling some kind of way about suggestions (if her claims are true) that I should vote for the lesser of two rapists. The Convention is still months away! If the allegations are true, we have got to find a way to nominate one of the many other excellent choices we have who haven't raped women.
If they are not true, we need to find some kind of way to demonstrate that.
Can the DNC ask one of the drop outs to come back? I honestly have no idea what could be done to resolve this should her accusations be true.
1, there's a lot - A LOT - that has to be investigated in complete fairness to both Biden and Reade. 2, "believe women" doesn't mean to believe anything a woman says because she is a woman, it's really about taking a woman's allegations and statements seriously. And then investigating.
As far as #2, I never implied anyone should believe everything someone says. I was simply curious as to why people find these allegations hard to believe.
I have read that she tried to take this story to notable Me Too journalists like Ronan, and they declined to run with the story. That says to me that they have reason to doubt, which gives me reason to doubt.
I don't know one way or another what I believe, but I know this should be investigated thoroughly.
I am just so demoralized by this entire campaign cycle.
I tend to feel like I am resigned that Trump will win because I am not expecting assault victims or super socialists to vote for Biden. I understand if you have a boundary, even if it means no win for D’s. I just can’t imagine how this gets accurately vetted - it was decades ago when it is completely feasible that this was reported and not recorded/investigated and it wouldn’t be odd at all for a victim to give up after reporting and no action by a committee. Plus it might just be something that can’t be fixed. Why do we expect GOP women to vote their consciences if we won’t or can’t do it ourselves?
FWIW, I am an assault survivor and also a socialist and I will be voting for him.
ETA - I think this should absolutely be investigated, but between Biden and Trump, I’m Biden all the damn way.
Post by turnipthebeet on Apr 13, 2020 18:29:21 GMT -5
If Biden isn’t the nominee, because he’s found guilty of this or drops out or whatever, wouldn’t Bernie, the next delegate leader, be the obvious choice to replace him? I’m not a bro in any way, shape or form. But I can’t imagine it going any other way. Honestly, if it is anyone else I will start to buy in to some of the bro conspiracy theories. More votes have been cast for Bernie this primary than any other candidate save for Biden.
There's a medium article circulating (which i'm not going to repost because its just a medium article) that claims that in 2017, she was retweeting positive tweets about Joe Biden, that in 2009 she wrote an article about domestic violence that praised Biden for his efforts, that mentions the way that she teased releasing these allegations on twitter (with a tweet that said "tic toc" in response to a tweet from Ryan Grim on 3/3/20), that she did not disclose the sexual assault in 4/3/19 when she dislosed that Biden touched her inappropriately. There is also a lot of weird shit about Russia and praising Assange that i don't think is relevant to this allegation but still really odd. Anyway, i'm trying to be open minded about this but i don't think that any of this is straightforward.
And Anita Hill got in the car with hers after, didn't mean it didn't happen
I find it highly laughable that a bunch of women who claim to always believe women now don't because it sits better with them
I still don't care. In a different time I would, but now is not that time.
I don’t understand this mindset. You don’t care that the dem nominee possibly assaulted women?
Im not the one quoted but I’ve already said I don’t care about this before. So I’ll answer that for me that’s still the case? I really don’t right now. This claim seems sketchy as hell at best to me anyway, but I’m still firmly on the side of we need to get trump out. Period.
I don't know what to think about whether this is true or not. I hope it's not but I don't think we should just dismiss it either. I would like it investigated, though I do have doubts that a conclusive investigation can even be conducted this long after the fact.
I am curious why this is only coming up NOW. Why not when he was VP? Why not when he was just a candidate for the nomination and there were a ton of other good candidates who could have risen instead of him? Why now, when he's made it past all the other good options and is the presumptive nominee? I think a rape victim has a right to tell her story whenever she wants to, but I do question what the motive is behind choosing now, of all times, to come forward. I can 1000% see why she wouldn't want her rapist to be president. I just don't know why she had to wait until the entire democratic nomination process would be completely fucked to draw that line. I don't know that it means she isn't telling the truth, but I do kind of feel like this is being used strategically to hurt the democratic chances of winning in November.
I still don't care. In a different time I would, but now is not that time.
I don’t understand this mindset. You don’t care that the dem nominee possibly assaulted women?
Because at this point, it's going to be Biden vs. Trump in November. Biden isn't going to drop out, one of the candidates who dropped out aren't going to get back in, there's not going to be some other candidate nominated. He's going to be our nominee. I'm not going to sit out in protest because in that very binary choice of Trump vs. Biden, Biden wins at literally every level, even with this allegation.
I still don't care. In a different time I would, but now is not that time.
I’m going to jump into the fire with you.
My choices are: a possible sex offender, a rapist that brags about it, writing in another option, staying home. 3/4 of those options guarantees that life will be worse for black and brown people, immigrants, poor people, women. 3/4 of those choices means we will lose the Supreme Court for decades. I’m voting for Biden. I’ll even stand in a line to do so.
I think the Democrats should as a party try to choose a replacement they can nominate at convention. They can’t effectively call Trump voters out as being willing to vote for a rapist if the party leaders are willing to nominate someone with these allegations unaddressed (not to mention previous allegations of making other women uncomfortable even if not crossing to legal harassment/assault).
How do they do this? Redo the primary? I guess this is where things like superdelegates come in, but I am not personally comfortable with the idea of nullifying the nominee who won the popular vote. Ugh. I do think this is disqualifying but I don’t like the idea of just ignoring the primaries, even with some of the issues in them.
I think the Democrats should as a party try to choose a replacement they can nominate at convention.).
Can you elaborate on this?
I don’t know how the process could work exactly, but much like if no candidate had enough delegates to secure the nomination before convention and it would get worked out at convention by second or third balloting- I’d like to see him step aside at this point and let either state or national delegates decide who to pledge their votes to- I think a candidate (for example) like Warren would be so much stronger in so many ways, especially with this type of allegation coming out.
I’d rather rehash the nomination process now while he’s not officially the nominee than have a slow drip of Biden assaults/harassments/making women uncomfortable between now and November. If it were just this allegation, it would be one thing, but he’s had a problematic history with women (including Anita Hill) for too long.
And respectfully, I don’t think it is fair to his accuser to say “why now” when we are living in a different time when there is more attention on these things now where before the “me too” movement, women were more or less expected to indulge the behavior. It’s never a good time for someone to come forward with these allegations - I think all of us were disgusted by conservatives who said that about Blasey Ford “why wait until he’s up for a Supreme Court seat time speak up?”
I think the Democrats should as a party try to choose a replacement they can nominate at convention. They can’t effectively call Trump voters out as being willing to vote for a rapist if the party leaders are willing to nominate someone with these allegations unaddressed (not to mention previous allegations of making other women uncomfortable even if not crossing to legal harassment/assault).
How do they do this? Redo the primary? I guess this is where things like superdelegates come in, but I am not personally comfortable with the idea of nullifying the nominee who won the popular vote. Ugh. I do think this is disqualifying but I don’t like the idea of just ignoring the primaries, even with some of the issues in them.
That’s also a good point- I don’t think overriding the votes is really a great option. But I do wonder if it is the least bad of several bad options.
I’m so disillusioned over everything at the moment so I probably shouldn’t be making suggestions.
As I said before, it is Biden plus a sexual assault allegation but experts and SCOTUS not lost for a GENERATION vs Trump, a serial rapist and a criminal, incompetent band of grifters and more Kavanaugh and Gorsuch.
In this situation, I will crawl across glass, in a cloud of pandemic germs, through a pit of snakes (I am super phobic of snakes and can’t even look at them without panicking) to vote for a livable future in a state Biden has zero chance of winning just so I can vote for Joe Biden against Donald Trump.
I would also literally vote for my dog if she had a D behind her name in the same conditions.
Maybe that’s offensive, I don’t know. What I do know is which of these people is a giant risk to me and to @ my kids. It’s not Joe Biden. I know which of these people is a giant risk to anyone vulnerable and this country’s future. It’s not Joe Biden.
I would like for all the rapey old white men to excuse themselves from running for president.
In an ideal world, Biden wouldn't have run. In a less ideal, but still pretty good world, this information would have come out early in the race while there were still viable alternative candidates left in the race. Right now? There are not. In a best case scenario we get rid of Biden and Bernie, with all of his problems, becomes the Democratic nominee. Personally, no thanks.
I think the idea that someone who is not Bernie or Biden gets the nominee so incredibly unlikely. The idea that someone who is not Bernie or Biden beats Trump is even less likely, not because they are not capable candidates, but the political gymnastics that it would take to get them there would turn off parts of the Democratic base and inspire the Republican base to come out.
Having said that, Biden should be investigated the same as anyone else. If he withdraws/is forced to withdraw/is in jail/whatever I will happily crawl over the glass to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is.
And after you’ve answered that question, how comfortable are you overturning the votes of the black party base to make that person our nominee?
I agree in theory that if the allegation seems to have legs, the party should urge him to step aside and put someone else there.
In practice though, I just don’t get how people here can be so damn certain that that throwing out the votes and telling Tom Perez to just figure it out is the only acceptable answer. I don’t know if this allegation has legs but I’m leaning towards no. Even if it is credible, it’s really fucking hard to know what to do at this point in time when the lives of millions, arguably billions, or people around the planet hinge on us getting Trump out of the WH.
Post by turnipthebeet on Apr 13, 2020 21:15:32 GMT -5
Here’s the other thing that just doesn’t sit right with me.
Bernie’s more extreme supporters are the ones propping this woman up. And before Bernie endorsed today, his less fervent supporters, who were really feeling the acute sting of him dropping out, were also promoting it. But now that he’s endorsed, and people are going to become more accepting of a Biden nomination, and everyone moves on, she’s going to be dropped like a bad habit. It just smacks of men using a woman for their own means.
I’m not saying that she doesn’t have autonomy, and if this really happened I hope that it is investigated. But it seems like once people stop clicking on articles and lose interest, I can just see her getting left in the dust. It won’t be cheap to go after a former VP.
Also I’m an assault survivor. I would legit vote for the person who assaulted me over Donald Trump. Would I feel sick doing it? Probably. But I would do it because Trump and Republicans are THAT dangerous IMO.
Maybe I am internalizing patriarchy and misogyny but if this is my chance to break free of this current hell, I will do whatever.it.takes. Whatever. It. Takes. I will fight dirty, I will sacrifice principles. I will be as ruthless as I need to be and use whatever I’ve got to end this.
Also 2016 crushed my soul and I’ll never be the same. I was never invested in this race because I learned a lesson in 2016. I will tamp down whatever pain I may feel about this election if it means the end of R power in the White House and Senate. Period, the end. It is literally all that matters to me.
I think the Democrats should as a party try to choose a replacement they can nominate at convention. They can’t effectively call Trump voters out as being willing to vote for a rapist if the party leaders are willing to nominate someone with these allegations unaddressed (not to mention previous allegations of making other women uncomfortable even if not crossing to legal harassment/assault).