I’m assuming he did it. Nothing changes my vote. The clean up from Trump will be a mess, starting with our nominee. It’s not going to be pretty and everyone needs to tamper expectations. If we can just get to clean up phase, someday we can get someone better in office. But if we can’t even get to clean up phase because we let the perfect be the enemy of the good well then we are all just really fucked. For a long time. Completely fucked for generations going forward vs led by a flawed human who made terrible mistakes in the past but who will right this ship. It’s again a no brainer. Would people have tossed Sully Sullenberger off the plane before he could land if they found out he sexually assaulted someone? Probably not.
Did I say that they were more unethical in their lives overall? No. I said that debt and financial issues increases the likelihood of committing unethical acts. When applying for my security clearance one of the things they check everyone on and it's the top thing people are denied for is financial issues including debt and credit issues because as you said a lot of people in the US have debt and credit issues and I'm not saying it's some sort of moral failing but what debt and credit issues have been shown to do is put added pressure on people to modify their behavior and ethics. I'm sorry I can't show you statistics on this because there really isn't a set number of events or moments when or if this would happen and I'm not saying this DID happen, I'm simply responding to that it can.
Even credit reporting agencies have testified that there is no credible evidence to back up this claim. If credit issues have been shown to do this, it logically follows that there is some data to, you know, show that.
But, but that would mean that credit scores are arbitrary predictors of how much money you have to begin with, not an indicator of your worthiness as an employee, or in this case, human being.
I guess I still don't understand why it is taken as final that the race is between Biden and Trump. I mean, we know how everyone here will vote if that becomes the choice.
Biden is the presumptive nominee, not the nominee. There are processes in place to nominate someone else if he were to become incapacitated. It is not October. He can and should respond to this, and if he did it he should then fight like hell to get someone who doesn't rape women the nomination, then the presidency.
It will be interesting hear what he says tomorrow. I still don't know what I believe.
I guess I still don't understand why it is taken as final that the race is between Biden and Trump. I mean, we know how everyone here will vote if that becomes the choice.
Biden is the presumptive nominee, not the nominee. There are processes in place to nominate someone else if he were to become incapacitated. It is not October. He can and should respond to this, and if he did it he should then fight like hell to get someone who doesn't rape women the nomination, then the presidency.
It will be interesting hear what he says tomorrow. I still don't know what I believe.
I'm not sure I agree. I feel like that tells everyone that voted for him that their vote doesn't count.
I guess I still don't understand why it is taken as final that the race is between Biden and Trump. I mean, we know how everyone here will vote if that becomes the choice.
Biden is the presumptive nominee, not the nominee. There are processes in place to nominate someone else if he were to become incapacitated. It is not October. He can and should respond to this, and if he did it he should then fight like hell to get someone who doesn't rape women the nomination, then the presidency.
It will be interesting hear what he says tomorrow. I still don't know what I believe.
He’s not incapacitated though. What process are you aware of that would allow the Democratic Party a do over?
(I can’t think of a bigger shit show that would be BTW)
I guess I still don't understand why it is taken as final that the race is between Biden and Trump. I mean, we know how everyone here will vote if that becomes the choice.
Biden is the presumptive nominee, not the nominee. There are processes in place to nominate someone else if he were to become incapacitated. It is not October. He can and should respond to this, and if he did it he should then fight like hell to get someone who doesn't rape women the nomination, then the presidency.
It will be interesting hear what he says tomorrow. I still don't know what I believe.
I'm not sure I agree. I feel like that tells everyone that voted for him that their vote doesn't count.
Well, it would only work coming from him. He'd have to convince his voters that he lied to them and they'd be better with someone else; basically "incapacitate" himself by withdrawing. Otherwise it would be an even bigger disaster.
Here's a piece from a couple of weeks ago about how it would work procedurally:
As I said, Im not sure what I believe, so I'm not saying he should do this. I'm saying is he did do it, there's an alternative *he could provide* besides about all of us to for a rapist.
I'm not sure I agree. I feel like that tells everyone that voted for him that their vote doesn't count.
Well, it would only work coming from him. He'd have to convince his voters that he lied to them and they'd be better with someone else; basically "incapacitate" himself by withdrawing. Otherwise it would be an even bigger disaster.
Here's a piece from a couple of weeks ago about how it would work procedurally:
As I said, Im not sure what I believe, so I'm not saying he should do this. I'm saying is he did do it, there's an alternative *he could provide* besides about all of us to for a rapist.
He has said he didn’t do it, though, so why would he change his tune? I don’t know if he did or not, because it truly doesn’t matter to me. And frankly I think he’s our best shot at the moment to win because whatever fallout from him removing himself would be a complete shit show.
Well, it would only work coming from him. He'd have to convince his voters that he lied to them and they'd be better with someone else; basically "incapacitate" himself by withdrawing. Otherwise it would be an even bigger disaster.
Here's a piece from a couple of weeks ago about how it would work procedurally:
As I said, Im not sure what I believe, so I'm not saying he should do this. I'm saying is he did do it, there's an alternative *he could provide* besides about all of us to for a rapist.
He has said he didn’t do it, though, so why would he change his tune? I don’t know if he did or not, because it truly doesn’t matter to me. And frankly I think he’s our best shot at the moment to win because whatever fallout from him removing himself would be a complete shit show.
He probably won't say it. He might be our best shot to make Trump lose. He might be a lot less of a good shot if further allegations come out and/or this one is proved credible and disgusted people sit the election out.
He has said he didn’t do it, though, so why would he change his tune? I don’t know if he did or not, because it truly doesn’t matter to me. And frankly I think he’s our best shot at the moment to win because whatever fallout from him removing himself would be a complete shit show.
He probably won't say it. He might be our best shot to make Trump lose. He might be a lot less of a good shot if further allegations come out and/or this one is proved credible and dUisgusted people sit the election out.
I don’t necessarily disagree about the if more comes out but I honestly don’t think it will. He’s a former VP who served for 8y under Obama who made the Republicans absolutely insane and would have loved nothing more than to brand Biden as a sexual predator and harm Obama politically. They play for keeps as we’ve seen.
Idk. I just think none of this is reality. He’s not going to admit to this and step aside. I think it’s almost as unlikely that there are 20 other women waiting in the wings to say he raped them, too.
Post by One Girl In All The World on Apr 30, 2020 23:22:39 GMT -5
At this point, I don't think he did it. I think the claim is BS, honestly. And I think for many (maybe not all) of the people pushing this issue he could say he didn't do it and provide "receipts" and it wouldn't be enough simply because an accusation is out there. My position hasn't changed in that I'm voting for him regardless but I agree that I don't think he gets through 8 years as VP without this becoming a thing. I just don't.
WHY is he the nominee? We knew he was messy and would get covered in shit. And now this is where we are left.
And it isn't going to matter.
Because this election is going to rest on whether those old white fucks who voted for their good old boy who "told it like it is" still love him or whether they decide that Trump's "hurting the wrong people" and doesn't give a shit about them and now Biden is their new good old boy who will take care of them.
Another interesting point I read: in 1993 pantyhose were MANDATORY for women on Capitol Hill. That also doesn’t match Reade’s story of digital penetration under her skirt. (Don’t eff this up, Joe; don’t eff this up; don’t eff this up...)
WHY is he the nominee? We knew he was messy and would get covered in shit. And now this is where we are left.
And it isn't going to matter.
Because this election is going to rest on whether those old white fucks who voted for their good old boy who "told it like it is" still love him or whether they decide that Trump's "hurting the wrong people" and doesn't give a shit about them and now Biden is their new good old boy who will take care of them.
Fuck it all.
There’s gonna be a lot of progressives/Bernie Bros who will be writing in votes and/or not voting. Convincing them to vote democrat is gonna be hard. And many of them don’t care if we have Trump, because “democrats deserve it”.
Another interesting point I read: in 1993 pantyhose were MANDATORY for women on Capitol Hill. That also doesn’t match Reade’s story of digital penetration under her skirt. (Don’t eff this up, Joe; don’t eff this up; don’t eff this up...)
Another interesting point I read: in 1993 pantyhose were MANDATORY for women on Capitol Hill. That also doesn’t match Reade’s story of digital penetration under her skirt. (Don’t eff this up, Joe; don’t eff this up; don’t eff this up...)
I don't know if this is true (wouldn't be surprised though) but it doesn't matter. For one, different offices enforce different dress codes. If the rule applied to everyone Biden's office just might not have cared. If it only applied in the chamber then it is irrelevant because there is a 0% chance a staff assistant was on the floor with any regularity.
Also, pantyhose rip easily. That's kind of their thing.
This is Biden’s statement posted on FB this morning:
April was Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Every year, at this time, we talk about awareness, prevention, and the importance of women feeling they can step forward, say something, and be heard. That belief — that women should be heard — was the underpinning of a law I wrote over 25 years ago. To this day, I am most proud of the Violence Against Women Act. So, each April we are reminded not only of how far we have come in dealing with sexual assault in this country — but how far we still have to go.
When I wrote the bill, few wanted to talk about the issue. It was considered a private matter, a personal matter, a family matter. I didn’t see it that way. To me, freedom from fear, harm, and violence for women was a legal right, a civil right, and a human right. And I knew we had to change not only the law, but the culture.
So, we held hours of hearings and heard from the most incredibly brave women — and we opened the eyes of the Senate and the nation — and passed the law.
In the years that followed, I fought to continually strengthen the law. So, when we took office and President Obama asked me what I wanted, I told him I wanted oversight of the critical appointments in the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice and I wanted a senior White House Advisor appointing directly to me on the issue. Both of those things happened.
As Vice President, we started the “It’s on Us” campaign on college campuses to send the message loud and clear that dating violence is violence — and against the law.
We had to get men involved. They had to be part of the solution. That’s why I made a point of telling young men this was their problem too — they couldn’t turn a blind eye to what was happening around them — they had a responsibility to speak out. Silence is complicity.
In the 26 years since the law passed, the culture and perceptions have changed but we’re not done yet.
It’s on us, and it’s on me as someone who wants to lead this country. I recognize my responsibility to be a voice, an advocate, and a leader for the change in culture that has begun but is nowhere near finished. So I want to address allegations by a former staffer that I engaged in misconduct 27 years ago.
They aren’t true. This never happened.
While the details of these allegations of sexual harassment and sexual assault are complicated, two things are not complicated. One is that women deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and when they step forward they should be heard, not silenced. The second is that their stories should be subject to appropriate inquiry and scrutiny.
Responsible news organizations should examine and evaluate the full and growing record of inconsistencies in her story, which has changed repeatedly in both small and big ways.
But this much bears emphasizing.
She has said she raised some of these issues with her supervisor and senior staffers from my office at the time. They — both men and a woman — have said, unequivocally, that she never came to them and complained or raised issues. News organizations that have talked with literally dozens of former staffers have not found one — not one — who corroborated her allegations in any way. Indeed, many of them spoke to the culture of an office that would not have tolerated harassment in any way — as indeed I would not have.
There is a clear, critical part of this story that can be verified. The former staffer has said she filed a complaint back in 1993. But she does not have a record of this alleged complaint. The papers from my Senate years that I donated to the University of Delaware do not contain personnel files. It is the practice of Senators to establish a library of personal papers that document their public record: speeches, policy proposals, positions taken, and the writing of bills.
There is only one place a complaint of this kind could be — the National Archives. The National Archives is where the records are kept at what was then called the Office of Fair Employment Practices. I am requesting that the Secretary of the Senate ask the Archives to identify any record of the complaint she alleges she filed and make available to the press any such document. If there was ever any such complaint, the record will be there. As a Presidential candidate, I’m accountable to the American people. We have lived long enough with a President who doesn’t think he is accountable to anyone, and takes responsibility for nothing. That’s not me. I believe being accountable means having the difficult conversations, even when they are uncomfortable. People need to hear the truth.
I have spent my career learning from women the ways in which we as individuals and as policy makers need to step up to make their hard jobs easier, with equal pay, equal opportunity, and workplaces and homes free from violence and harassment. I know how critical women’s health issues and basic women’s rights are. That has been a constant through my career, and as President, that work will continue. And I will continue to learn from women, to listen to women, to support women, and yes, to make sure women’s voices are heard.
We have a lot of work to do. From confronting online harassment, abuse, and stalking, to ending the rape kit backlog, to addressing the deadly combination of guns and domestic violence.
We need to protect and empower the most marginalized communities, including immigrant and indigenous women, trans women, and women of color.
We need to make putting an end to gender-based violence in both the United States and around the world a top priority.
I started my work over 25 years ago with the passage of the Violence Against Women Act. As president, I’m committed to finishing the job.
WHY is he the nominee? We knew he was messy and would get covered in shit. And now this is where we are left.
And it isn't going to matter.
Because this election is going to rest on whether those old white fucks who voted for their good old boy who "told it like it is" still love him or whether they decide that Trump's "hurting the wrong people" and doesn't give a shit about them and now Biden is their new good old boy who will take care of them.
Fuck it all.
There’s gonna be a lot of progressives/Bernie Bros who will be writing in votes and/or not voting. Convincing them to vote democrat is gonna be hard. And many of them don’t care if we have Trump, because “democrats deserve it”.
These people were never going to be convinced anyway and were always going to have a reason. No one is relying on their support.
There’s gonna be a lot of progressives/Bernie Bros who will be writing in votes and/or not voting. Convincing them to vote democrat is gonna be hard. And many of them don’t care if we have Trump, because “democrats deserve it”.
These people were never going to be convinced anyway and were always going to have a reason. No one is relying on their support.
These people have been present for every single election. They’re calling themselves democrats (sometimes) now, but they’ve never been reliable.
The things mentioned in this thread would reduce the base voters. Fill stop. And if you think it’s hard to win an election without these fringe, unreliable voters (and let’s be real - not everyone crowing about this on Twitter is a voter, there is still a Russian disinformation campaign churning), consider how hard it would be to win without the base.
I would also add these people are constantly moving the goalposts and trying to appease them would be pure folly because they will just move it again. It’s why they call Warren a snake, why they went after EVERY candidate not named Bernie Sanders with a level of vitriol that was entirely unearned. They never intended to vote for anyone but Bernie and trying to win them over is not worth the effort. Focus on turning out the base.
WHY is he the nominee? We knew he was messy and would get covered in shit. And now this is where we are left.
And it isn't going to matter.
Because this election is going to rest on whether those old white fucks who voted for their good old boy who "told it like it is" still love him or whether they decide that Trump's "hurting the wrong people" and doesn't give a shit about them and now Biden is their new good old boy who will take care of them.
Fuck it all.
There aren't really swing voters. It's about getting out young people and more of those who are liberal-minded, but not politically engaged. So it's not about stopping the Trump voters so much as engaging the ones who are less likely to motivate to vote or have hurdles to getting to the polls. Is Biden engaging? Can we get others to engage with this as Biden denies his sexual assault allegation?
I thought about how to word this but I’ll just say it: I don’t believe her.
Her character witnesses make her out to be a liar/manipulator, and no one can find any evidence or corroboration. I think it’s dirty politics and I think it’s revenge for Kavanaugh. Killing the left with their own sword.
I would also add these people are constantly moving the goalposts and trying to appease them would be pure folly because they will just move it again. It’s why they call Warren a snake, why they went after EVERY candidate not named Bernie Sanders with a level of vitriol that was entirely unearned. They never intended to vote for anyone but Bernie and trying to win them over is not worth the effort. Focus on turning out the base.
I do think that there are more of them voting than are being talked about here. And I don’t think just pandering to the base is gonna be enough.
We need to do something different than we did with HRC. I realize that a lot of the votes last time were geared toward the hatred of HRC, but I think a lot of that has turned into hate for the DNC. And I think ignoring them is gonna hurt us in the long run.
Post by rupertpenny on May 1, 2020 13:42:40 GMT -5
I totally believe that there may have been unwanted touching and comments about how she was going to staff a party because Biden thought she had nice legs, etc. I also 1000% believe that senior staff ignored possible complaints, changed her assignments, etc without alerting Biden or seeking his approval. Besides the general issue of misogyny and staffer loyalty, there is a very strong incentive for Hill staff to protect their Member. If a member resigns in scandal or loses their next election all of the staffers lose their jobs and depending on the circumstances might be potentially tainted for life. There is absolutely zero job security for legislative staff. I'm not making excuses, just explaining my perspective.
On the other hand, this whole story is weird. I have a hard time believing that the assault happened as stated, especially since no one else has come forward with similar assault allegations in the many decades of Biden's high profile career. The Secretary of the Senate should ABSOLUTELY work with NARA to search Reade's complaint and publish it if it is found.* Senate records are kept by the Center for Legislative Archives, which is housed and resourced by NARA, but it is a fairly independent unit. Even thought David Ferriero showed a huge lapse in judgement regarding the Women's March photographs, I believe the CLA has enough independence to not be stopped by him.
For reference, am obviously not 100% sure about anything, but I did work in the personal office of a Senator and interned at the Center for Legislative Archives and my thoughts are informed by my experience at both places.
*I haven't worked with government records for a while but I believe personnel records should still be closed (regular Senate records open after 20 years) and that the Archives would need Reade's permission to publish her own personnel file.
I would also add these people are constantly moving the goalposts and trying to appease them would be pure folly because they will just move it again. It’s why they call Warren a snake, why they went after EVERY candidate not named Bernie Sanders with a level of vitriol that was entirely unearned. They never intended to vote for anyone but Bernie and trying to win them over is not worth the effort. Focus on turning out the base.
I do think that there are more of them voting than are being talked about here. And I don’t think just pandering to the base is gonna be enough.
We need to do something different than we did with HRC. I realize that a lot of the votes last time were geared toward the hatred of HRC, but I think a lot of that has turned into hate for the DNC. And I think ignoring them is gonna hurt us in the long run.
Well maybe. On the upside compared to 2016 there is a lot more time now and a pandemic so hopefully that helps people. And Bernie definitely and clearly likes Biden more than he did HRC. Also I never said pander to the base. I said focus on turning out the base.
But hey maybe Trump can win and we can all learn the hard way YET AGAIN that Ds and Rs aren’t the same. Can’t wait.
Post by turnipthebeet on May 1, 2020 17:38:15 GMT -5
I’ll tell ya what gives me some hope. I occasionally, when I don’t have enough other shit in the world to stress myself out with, peruse Reddit’s politics board. In ‘16 they were burn it down for Bernie, up until the day after the election. I’ve followed them off-and-on since, and they seemed to come around a bit. During the dem primary they again leaned quite heavily in Bernie’s direction, but with a lot of “I’ll vote for the nominee no matter what”.
The megathread about Biden denying the charges is... reasonable. A lot of - “so biden should have cheated on his pregnant wife with a porn star and then paid her off” type of comments. Which gives me some hope that we all learned the right lessons in ‘16. Aside from Russian bots, of which there are so many on twitter.
I would also add these people are constantly moving the goalposts and trying to appease them would be pure folly because they will just move it again. It’s why they call Warren a snake, why they went after EVERY candidate not named Bernie Sanders with a level of vitriol that was entirely unearned. They never intended to vote for anyone but Bernie and trying to win them over is not worth the effort. Focus on turning out the base.
And especially viewing "the other swing Voter" part of the base.
Trump will turn this into a "both sides are the same, so don't bother" type of campaign, and along with normal GOP voter suppression tactics, turnout will be lower than what we would have anticipated right after the mid-terms.
Trump will turn this into a "both sides are the same, so don't bother" type of campaign, and along with normal GOP voter suppression tactics, turnout will be lower than what we would have anticipated right after the mid-terms.
It is just laughable to me to think that if it were someone else, anyone else, that something similar wouldn’t be concocted. Yes - if it were a woman it probably wouldn’t be sexual assault (although remember katie hill?), but any candidate that goes up against trump was going to have something like this. When he was up against Hillary, trump used her husband’s infidelity against her.
I actually think that he’s weathering this pretty well. He’s open to an investigation, cooperating, not denigrating Reade.
Trump will turn this into a "both sides are the same, so don't bother" type of campaign, and along with normal GOP voter suppression tactics, turnout will be lower than what we would have anticipated right after the mid-terms.
It is just laughable to me to think that if it were someone else, anyone else, that something similar wouldn’t be concocted. Yes - if it were a woman it probably wouldn’t be sexual assault (although remember katie hill?), but any candidate that goes up against trump was going to have something like this. When he was up against Hillary, trump used her husband’s infidelity against her.
I actually think that he’s weathering this pretty well. He’s open to an investigation, cooperating, not denigrating Reade.
I will also give Biden credit for how he has handled being accused of this. I don’t know if it’s true or not, maybe he’d a secret sociopath and it’s never come out. But as much as I hate we are in this position, he has handled it how I would like any man who is accused to handle it. Please contrast this to crying, hysterical I LIKE BEER OKAY Kavanaugh.
Post by mockingbird on May 3, 2020 12:42:02 GMT -5
I really want to see at least one spliced video comparing the responses, Kavanaugh’s crying, Trump’s grab them quote, Biden’s “women deserve to be treated with dignity” offering the records, Trump blocking access to records,
Dems could do so much better at messaging and grabbing the narrative.