Reviving the thread, as this was posted (yes, on Tw, sorry) by a trusted source, & was pretty enlightening. Like many on here, I was giving Reade the benefit of the doubt, until I read this, posted yesterday. It certainly helps me wholeheartedly support Biden again, & I hope it might help others: Tara Reade: Legacy of Lies (Part One: Background) ascammersnightmareisjustice.blogspot.com/2020/04/tara-reade-legacy-of-lies-part-one.html?m=1 (& I can post addtl parts when added if wanted)
What’s the trusted source here?
Hedgehog and friends.
Sarcasm aside, when did we start posting blog rants as verified sources?
Right. Sorry. I shouldn’t have posted when I have a couple Zooms this am. I meant it’s someone I’ve followed for years on Tw; trusted because the blog post contains factual information re: dates, court rulings, etc: Actual receipts IYW. I certainly wasn’t aiming to spread disinformation; on the contrary, thought it was enlightening information on Reade’s character. Not at all victim blaming, but because that’s basically all we have to go on when considering decades-old private allegations. It helped me feel better about things & I was hoping to possibly share that; now I see I probably shouldn’t have.
What does any of that have to do with whether she was assaulted? Even if it was all true, even if she was a shitty person, how does that make you feel *better* about this?
What does any of that have to do with whether she was assaulted? Even if it was all true, even if she was a shitty person, how does that make you feel *better* about this?
I assume she meant that it makes her feel more secure in believing it's not a credible assault claim, not that she felt better about the assault actually occurring.
*Not saying I agree one way or the other, I'm largely staying out of this because it fucking sucks and in the end, unfortunately, I have to choose between these two people and there's no real way out of it. Just thought I understood what she was trying to say.
What does any of that have to do with whether she was assaulted? Even if it was all true, even if she was a shitty person, how does that make you feel *better* about this?
I assume she meant that it makes her feel more secure in believing it's not a credible assault claim, not that she felt better about the assault actually occurring.
*Not saying I agree one way or the other, I'm largely staying out of this because it fucking sucks and in the end, unfortunately, I have to choose between these two people and there's no real way out of it. Just thought I understood what she was trying to say.
I assume that too. But I guess I'm asking why a person having debt/financial problems and living close to her abuser have anything to do with her credibility.
I assume she meant that it makes her feel more secure in believing it's not a credible assault claim, not that she felt better about the assault actually occurring.
*Not saying I agree one way or the other, I'm largely staying out of this because it fucking sucks and in the end, unfortunately, I have to choose between these two people and there's no real way out of it. Just thought I understood what she was trying to say.
I assume that too. But I guess I'm asking why a person having debt/financial problems and living close to her abuser have anything to do with her credibility.
I don't think whether or not he did exactly what Reade is claiming is even the point anymore. Rebecca Traister obviously believes Reade. Several other journalists are more skeptical. But Traister's point is that this is going to be An Issue, whether or not it's true. At this point, finding out the truth isn't going to change anything - Dems need to figure out WELL AND FAST what the response is going to be to this, because the GOP is going to bring it up full force, because they have no shame and no sense of their own hypocrisy.
I don't think whether or not he did exactly what Reade is claiming is even the point anymore. Rebecca Traister obviously believes Reade. Several other journalists are more skeptical. But Traister's point is that this is going to be An Issue, whether or not it's true. At this point, finding out the truth isn't going to change anything - Dems need to figure out WELL AND FAST what the response is going to be to this, because the GOP is going to bring it up full force, because they have no shame and no sense of their own hypocrisy.
You say this like there is/was a whole Dem response to the Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton issue or a whole GOP response to the Trump "grab pussy" and pay off escorts/affair partner responses. There were pretty much non-responses from most people in power for those. Even with Al Franken and Anthoney Weiner, which were very clear-cut on what they did wrong, I think it was individuals who spoke up, and mostly women. I don't think I've seen a unified Dem response on this.
What is the response that shuts down the irony of the situation and doesn't discount that Reade coming forward isn't really going to change our minds? My personal one is "Fuck, why do we have to vote for these sexual predator leaders. We had some great women candidates who were there and because of Bernie and Biden quests for notoriety over the good of the country, we end up with this situation. Fine, I'll vote for Biden, but I'm not stoked." or if you're my GOP aunt and I love you, but I hate Trump and also don't love voting for Biden I say, "Well, we both have terrible choices, but the one I get to make will do everything in his power to get amazing women and minorities into positions of power to make up for his shame and the one you have has no shame or checks/balances. And a reasonable, understanding, very intelligent Supreme Court is far more important to me than who is president for 4-8 years."
TL/DR - We all have to come up with our own response to this. We are the Dem party and we are the one getting Biden (with his handsy-ness and sexual assault/rape/abuse of power for sex included) elected (hopefully).
I think almost all of us wanted someone other than Biden as the nominee, and I'm pretty upset that we have to chose between two (alleged) rapists as our vote for the next President. But no information about Biden can change the fact that he'd be miles better in the job than Trump. And he will surround himself with good people, and he might pick Obama as the next Supreme Court justice.
I just wish this crappy choice wouldn't depress voter turnout, but it might, and we need progressives voting in those key Senate races. Winning the Senate is actually more important, I think, than winning the presidency.
I assume she meant that it makes her feel more secure in believing it's not a credible assault claim, not that she felt better about the assault actually occurring.
*Not saying I agree one way or the other, I'm largely staying out of this because it fucking sucks and in the end, unfortunately, I have to choose between these two people and there's no real way out of it. Just thought I understood what she was trying to say.
I assume that too. But I guess I'm asking why a person having debt/financial problems and living close to her abuser have anything to do with her credibility.
Excessive debt and financial issues increase the likelihood of committing unethical acts. This is known. It shouldn't be assumed Reade's claim is false because she was experiencing financial issues, but it increases pressure to do something unethical. Like create a false story.
I assume that too. But I guess I'm asking why a person having debt/financial problems and living close to her abuser have anything to do with her credibility.
Excessive debt and financial issues increase the likelihood of committing unethical acts. This is known. It shouldn't be assumed Reade's claim is false because she was experiencing financial issues, but it increases pressure to do something unethical. Like create a false story.
It is known that people with debt are more unethical? I'm curious how this is measured or by what metric.
I mean, sure, it comes up in real crime stories I listen to as one part of a motive or an issue in predatory crimes, but generally most of America carries a heavy debt load and I don't think most Americans are unethical. I'm not sure putting yourself through national press and known as the rape/sexual assault victim of a Senator/Vice President/Presidential Candidate is going to end up making her rich.
I think almost all of us wanted someone other than Biden as the nominee, and I'm pretty upset that we have to chose between two (alleged) rapists as our vote for the next President. But no information about Biden can change the fact that he'd be miles better in the job than Trump. And he will surround himself with good people, and he might pick Obama as the next Supreme Court justice.
I just wish this crappy choice wouldn't depress voter turnout, but it might, and we need progressives voting in those key Senate races. Winning the Senate is actually more important, I think, than winning the presidency.
Shhhhhhh! GOP, Tea Party, and any other white racists not in either of those camps will come out full force if this idea gets out there. Most people worry that Biden would pick Obama as vice president. Let them focus on that concern for now!
Excessive debt and financial issues increase the likelihood of committing unethical acts. This is known. It shouldn't be assumed Reade's claim is false because she was experiencing financial issues, but it increases pressure to do something unethical. Like create a false story.
It is known that people with debt are more unethical? I'm curious how this is measured or by what metric.
I mean, sure, it comes up in real crime stories I listen to as one part of a motive or an issue in predatory crimes, but generally most of America carries a heavy debt load and I don't think most Americans are unethical. I'm not sure putting yourself through national press and known as the rape/sexual assault victim of a Senator/Vice President/Presidential Candidate is going to end up making her rich.
Did I say that they were more unethical in their lives overall? No. I said that debt and financial issues increases the likelihood of committing unethical acts. When applying for my security clearance one of the things they check everyone on and it's the top thing people are denied for is financial issues including debt and credit issues because as you said a lot of people in the US have debt and credit issues and I'm not saying it's some sort of moral failing but what debt and credit issues have been shown to do is put added pressure on people to modify their behavior and ethics. I'm sorry I can't show you statistics on this because there really isn't a set number of events or moments when or if this would happen and I'm not saying this DID happen, I'm simply responding to that it can.
There's a big difference between acknowledging that debt can put pressure on someone to commit unethical acts and saying that BECAUSE someone has debt they must be lying about an assault allegation.
That blog post is absolutely victim blaming, boiled down to "she's a LIAR." It's no different, IMO, than the people who said Christine Blasey Ford was lying about everything since she flew to surf competitions. I'm in favor of objectively evaluating assault claims and looking at facts, but the blog post is little more than dragging a woman through the mud. She's a liar because she exaggerated her father's career in his obituary? AYFKM?!
Maybe Tara Reade is lying, maybe she's exaggerating, or maybe it happened exactly like she said. I honestly don't know. But blog posts like that only serve to destroy women's credibility rather than actually evaluate the claim.
Literally 30m people don’t have jobs and more people have died in the past 6w than died during the Vietnam War.
One of these candidates will surround himself with competent experts and the other will continue to be a criminal, endangering us all, surrounded by incompetent grifters and is the king of grift himself.
I’m personally sleeping just fine at night not weighing Reade’s allegation into my calculus. It does not matter to me at all, just like my own pain doesn’t matter to me at all when it comes to this election. I’m not sure it could matter less to me.
THIRTY MILLION PEOPLE DONT HAVE JOBS. TENS OF THOUSANDS ARE DYING. WE STILL DONT HAVE ADEQUATE TESTING AND PPE IS BEING SEIZED FOR KUSHNER’S STOCKPILE. I LEGIT GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT ANYTHING BUT EJECTING DON THE CON, HIS BAND OF GRIFTERS AND FRANKLY EVIL IDIOTS, AND REPUBLICANS FROM THE SENATE. THATS IT. THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
I mean have you seen the food bank lines? The rotting food?
This country is on fire and I’m sorry I can’t prioritize a 25+yo assault claim that has been all over the place.
I just can’t and I’m not sorry. And if it were me and the person who assaulted me I’d say the same, damn thing. I would encourage every one of you to vote for him to get Donald Trump out of office. My pain over my assault is something that has impacted me for a large majority of my life. But it doesn’t matter. People are sick and dying. Food is rotting and people are starving. Do the right thing for your fellow citizens.
Literally 30m people don’t have jobs and more people have died in the past 6w than died during the Vietnam War.
One of these candidates will surround himself with competent experts and the other will continue to be a criminal, endangering us all, surrounded by incompetent grifters and is the king of grift himself.
I’m personally sleeping just fine at night not weighing Reade’s allegation into my calculus. It does not matter to me at all, just like my own pain doesn’t matter to me at all when it comes to this election. I’m not sure it could matter less to me.
THIRTY MILLION PEOPLE DONT HAVE JOBS. TENS OF THOUSANDS ARE DYING. WE STILL DONT HAVE ADEQUATE TESTING AND PPE IS BEING SEIZED FOR KUSHNER’S STOCKPILE. I LEGIT GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT ANYTHING BUT EJECTING DON THE CON, HIS BAND OF GRIFTERS AND FRANKLY EVIL IDIOTS, AND REPUBLICANS FROM THE SENATE. THATS IT. THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
This is where I land. I think assassinating Tara Reade’s character is unnecessary because ultimately to me the important issue isn’t whether she is telling the truth.
I have no faith in Donald Trump listening to logic/surrounding himself with good people. He hasn't in the last four years. He isn't going to start now. It is likely the next president will get to pick a Supreme Court Justice. The next president will have to continue to navigate the pandemic and the economic fallout. This election is life and death.
I have 100 percent faith Biden will be a smarter leader who will listen to smart people.
It is known that people with debt are more unethical? I'm curious how this is measured or by what metric.
I mean, sure, it comes up in real crime stories I listen to as one part of a motive or an issue in predatory crimes, but generally most of America carries a heavy debt load and I don't think most Americans are unethical. I'm not sure putting yourself through national press and known as the rape/sexual assault victim of a Senator/Vice President/Presidential Candidate is going to end up making her rich.
Did I say that they were more unethical in their lives overall? No. I said that debt and financial issues increases the likelihood of committing unethical acts. When applying for my security clearance one of the things they check everyone on and it's the top thing people are denied for is financial issues including debt and credit issues because as you said a lot of people in the US have debt and credit issues and I'm not saying it's some sort of moral failing but what debt and credit issues have been shown to do is put added pressure on people to modify their behavior and ethics. I'm sorry I can't show you statistics on this because there really isn't a set number of events or moments when or if this would happen and I'm not saying this DID happen, I'm simply responding to that it can.
Even credit reporting agencies have testified that there is no credible evidence to back up this claim. If credit issues have been shown to do this, it logically follows that there is some data to, you know, show that.
Literally 30m people don’t have jobs and more people have died in the past 6w than died during the Vietnam War.
One of these candidates will surround himself with competent experts and the other will continue to be a criminal, endangering us all, surrounded by incompetent grifters and is the king of grift himself.
I’m personally sleeping just fine at night not weighing Reade’s allegation into my calculus. It does not matter to me at all, just like my own pain doesn’t matter to me at all when it comes to this election. I’m not sure it could matter less to me.
THIRTY MILLION PEOPLE DONT HAVE JOBS. TENS OF THOUSANDS ARE DYING. WE STILL DONT HAVE ADEQUATE TESTING AND PPE IS BEING SEIZED FOR KUSHNER’S STOCKPILE. I LEGIT GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT ANYTHING BUT EJECTING DON THE CON, HIS BAND OF GRIFTERS AND FRANKLY EVIL IDIOTS, AND REPUBLICANS FROM THE SENATE. THATS IT. THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
This is where I land. I think assassinating Tara Reade’s character is unnecessary because ultimately to me the important issue isn’t whether she is telling the truth.
I have mostly avoided even reading various articles about it in the past week or two because I know the truth and that is, it won’t change my mind. People are sick and dying, Trump is the worst president ever and this has to end. That’s all.
I really wish the men in the party would stand up and say that this is the last fucking time they are going to drag women through this shit, and that going forward, anyone who wants to run for anything needs to make damn sure they haven't so much as looked a woman crosseyed, because they are just DONE watching the entire feminist and women's rights movement in this country be made a laughingstock because they are constantly forced to vote for the lesser of two evils and disregard victims simply to save their own damn lives.
Same goes for the whole blackface crap and any other past bigoted behavior of any kind.
Biden's touchy feely behavior is what got him in this position. If the men spoke out loudly about this and shamed into not running, we would not be here right now.
But here we are. It's got to stop. This has to be the last time.
This thread by the woman who started the Me Too movement is a good read.
I took a moment away from work and movement-related issues to be present where I was needed as my family was affected with COVID. But, I know many of you are wondering about my “take” on the Tara Reade story.
My stance has never wavered: survivors have a right to speak their truth and to be given the space to heal.
The inconvenient truth is that this story is impacting us differently because it hits at the heart of one of the most important elections of our lifetime. And I hate to disappoint you but I don’t really have easy answers.
There are no perfect survivors. And no one, especially a presidential candidate, is beyond reproach.
So where does that leave us? In a just world, we’d have a transformative approach to dealing with claims of sexual violence where a survivor’s story is given fair consideration and they are made whole by a process that supports both accountability and healing.
This is doubly important when outsized power dynamics are involved. But, we don’t have that right now. What we have now is a zero-sum game where absolutely no one wins, in part because most people weighing in at the moment don’t actually care about transforming a culture of sexual violence.
Many of you are only interested in this story because you are entertained by the trauma of others or because it has the potential to be politically expedient - with no real regard for the survivor.
On the one hand, Tara Reade has been afforded the opportunity to speak her truth through mainstream media reporting on her claims and ongoing investigative journalism.
She should have been able to come forward in a process where she was treated fairly, in a trusted system. Instead, like other public survivors before her, she had to rely on journalists in order to be heard - precisely because the systems for survivors are not in place.
On the other hand, the defense of Joe Biden shouldn’t rest on whether or not he's a “good guy” or “our only hope.” Instead, he could demonstrate what it looks like to be both accountable and electable.
Meaning, at minimum, acknowledging that his demonstrated learning curve around boundaries with women, at the very least, left him open to the plausibility of these claims.
No matter what you believe, we are allowed to expect more of the person running for U.S. President.
This is where we are. We don’t have a guidebook for this, in part because it would take a willingness from ALL of us to write it.
Survivors deserve more than being used as a political football by disinterested parties. And a culture of acknowledging harm can’t exist if we continue to view sexual violence as a catastrophic outlier rather than an embedded toxic element of our culture.
downtoearth, maybe this is the marketer in me, but they need to coordinate the official messaging and get that out there. They need everyone who officially represents the Biden campaign (including the future VP nominee) and DNC who go on television or radio or podcasts or on the record with journalists to have similar messaging.
Biden should record a video where he says that while he did not assault Reade the way she is saying, he acknowledges that he has crossed the line with women in the past. Say that he knows other women in his life may feel violated as well. And that he has grown and learned since receiving feedback about this, and deeply apologizes for it. He has certainly moved forward since the early 90s - and hopes most people have grown and changed for the better over nearly 30 years - but his commitment to the rights of women, as demonstrated in his passing the VAWA, has not waivered. He will do a, b, c, as well as x, y, and z in order to support women in the US, and here's why Trump hasn't and won't. Here's what Trump will do instead. That Biden cares about the rights of all Americans, including immigrants, non-English-speakers, POC, and members of the LGBT community. Here's why.
They need to outline specific plans that will help marginalized communities, show that Biden is apologetic, even though not a rapist, and that Trump is absolutely poison. The end. But they can't rely on people to just know that or assume it, the way we all do. They need Biden out there talking about it. They need Tom Perez, and Symone Sanders, and Gillibrand, and Warren, and Klobuchar, and Castro out there talking about.
Post by miniroller on Apr 30, 2020 15:42:51 GMT -5
Tomorrow in a @morning_Joe exclusive, former Vice President joebiden joins @joenbc, @morningmika & @williegeist to respond for the first time to the recent allegation of sexual assault. (No comment on the Morning Joe choice, but pleased it will be addressed.)
Tomorrow in a @morning_Joe exclusive, former Vice President joebiden joins @joenbc, @morningmika & @williegeist to respond for the first time to the recent allegation of sexual assault. (No comment on the Morning Joe choice, but pleased it will be addressed.)
I'm 50% sure he's going to say something so breathtakingly stupid and/or tone deaf and/or ignorant that we might as well hand the election over to Trump.
Tomorrow in a @morning_Joe exclusive, former Vice President joebiden joins @joenbc, @morningmika & @williegeist to respond for the first time to the recent allegation of sexual assault. (No comment on the Morning Joe choice, but pleased it will be addressed.)
I'm 50% sure he's going to say something so breathtakingly stupid and/or tone deaf and/or ignorant that we might as well hand the election over to Trump.
Only 50% though.
I wont lie, that was my first thought. He can be SO good or SO bad in interviews like this and I am 95% sure he isn’t going to be apologetic and contrite even though he really should be. I expect to cringe watching it.
I'm 50% sure he's going to say something so breathtakingly stupid and/or tone deaf and/or ignorant that we might as well hand the election over to Trump. Only 50% though.
I wont lie, that was my first thought. He can be SO good or SO bad in interviews like this and I am 95% sure he isn’t going to be apologetic and contrite even though he really should be. I expect to cringe watching it.
I hope ALL he does between now & tmrw am is rehearse, prepare, rehearse (solo, in front of multiple ppl, in front of critical audiences to provide feedback, solo again), eats, rehearse, sleeps, prep, interview.
I don’t have too much faith someone close enough to him has the power to make that happen, but we’ll see. 🤷🏼♀️
downtoearth , maybe this is the marketer in me, but they need to coordinate the official messaging and get that out there. They need everyone who officially represents the Biden campaign (including the future VP nominee) and DNC who go on television or radio or podcasts or on the record with journalists to have similar messaging.
Biden should record a video where he says that while he did not assault Reade the way she is saying, he acknowledges that he has crossed the line with women in the past. Say that he knows other women in his life may feel violated as well. And that he has grown and learned since receiving feedback about this, and deeply apologizes for it. He has certainly moved forward since the early 90s - and hopes most people have grown and changed for the better over nearly 30 years - but his commitment to the rights of women, as demonstrated in his passing the VAWA, has not waivered. He will do a, b, c, as well as x, y, and z in order to support women in the US, and here's why Trump hasn't and won't. Here's what Trump will do instead. That Biden cares about the rights of all Americans, including immigrants, non-English-speakers, POC, and members of the LGBT community. Here's why.
They need to outline specific plans that will help marginalized communities, show that Biden is apologetic, even though not a rapist, and that Trump is absolutely poison. The end. But they can't rely on people to just know that or assume it, the way we all do. They need Biden out there talking about it. They need Tom Perez, and Symone Sanders, and Gillibrand, and Warren, and Klobuchar, and Castro out there talking about.
I think there are several reasons they are slow to this. And why it might not work. It's not going to work on me... would it work on you? Would it work on a Bernie bro who hates senile Biden? A suburban mom who doesn't love Trump, but also likes her taxes lower and voted for him for "telling it like it is" last time? Long time Dems who were going to show up anyway? Millenials and early iGen who can vote and are young? Who is this marketing campaign for?
Here are the things that I see as hurdles to a simple video to address.
1. Biden's been quiet on this, but his campaign has denied that it happened. His campaign (and a lot of his staffers from the time) do not believe this claim. They either don't remember or it was swept under the rug and they know there is no official traction. So they already came out and said, "It didn't happen, but women matter." It's already a mixed message. Biden has also come out in the past saying, "Hey I learned and am not handsy as much now. The world is changing and I'm able to change." That was before the Reade accusation and it didn't stop this older accusation from coming out. So does it really help for him to keep saying this? Sure he can come out and address this directly, but he's in a spot where he even if he says, "I didn't sexually assault Reade, but women's voices matter." it seem callous. Not sure it's a good line. I'm sure they are stuck on this not fixing it, but look at #3. Nancy is doing something... her saying basically the same thing that Biden might say sounds more authentic.
2. Dem leaders like Perez, Sanders, Warren, Klobucher, and Harris have endorsed him. But too aren't going to address this sexual assault charge directly if Biden hasn't. Nobody wants to be labeled as someone who excuses any sexual assault or rape. They too are trying to stay in politics and make changes. If it's not Biden, they will work with who runs next. They also all know that the Senate matters as much as the presidency. So they probably are trying to figure out both Senate wins and the presidency win. And what if some of them endorse Biden, but also believe Reade. I bet some of them do. The ones that don't will come out and say so.
But - you got it from Pelosi today... the face of the reaction:
Her comments matched those she had made a couple of hours earlier during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” when she said she has “great sympathy” for women who bring forward sexual assault claims and considers herself a “big, strong supporter of the #MeToo movement.”
“And I do support Joe Biden,” she added. “I’m satisfied with how he has responded. I know him. I was proud to endorse him on Monday, very proud to endorse him. And so I’m satisfied with that.”
I wont lie, that was my first thought. He can be SO good or SO bad in interviews like this and I am 95% sure he isn’t going to be apologetic and contrite even though he really should be. I expect to cringe watching it.
I hope ALL he does between now & tmrw am is rehearse, prepare, rehearse (solo, in front of multiple ppl, in front of critical audiences to provide feedback, solo again), eats, rehearse, sleeps, prep, interview.
I don’t have too much faith someone close enough to him has the power to make that happen, but we’ll see. 🤷🏼♀️
That’s what he should do but he is notoriously undisciplined so I highly doubt it! He also goes off script even when well-rehearsed sooooo I’m pretty doubtful but this is one of those times where I’d love to be wrong.
I hope ALL he does between now & tmrw am is rehearse, prepare, rehearse (solo, in front of multiple ppl, in front of critical audiences to provide feedback, solo again), eats, rehearse, sleeps, prep, interview.
I don’t have too much faith someone close enough to him has the power to make that happen, but we’ll see. 🤷🏼♀️
That’s what he should do but he is notoriously undisciplined so I highly doubt it! He also goes off script even when well-rehearsed sooooo I’m pretty doubtful but this is one of those times where I’d love to be wrong.