The Vow - HBO

[just]

I know we're maxxed out on cult docs these days, but this is both bonkers and really well done. 

Did I miss the thread? (I searched, I swear)

[waverly]

I’ve been watching this. I hadn’t watched the other cult docs, so I am good there. I thought it was really good. I kept thinking how did they go from a pseudo life coach pyramid scheme to sex trafficking because the documentary present the positives first. Then in the next episode I was like OK that’s how.

[idahome]

I am watching this (though I’ve only seen the first episode so far) and thought it was pretty good. It seems like they jumped the shark when they started expanding into other offerings. Had they just stayed with the ESP program maybe they wouldn’t have become the sex ring?

Also, the interviews with Keith and Nancy (the 2 higher ups) are they current? Sometimes it seemed like those were current interviews.

[waverly]

idahome , I kind of think that is the whole purpose of cults. The charismatic, manipulative, too intelligent leader who says it's all your fault because you are not integrated is creating this pyramid for the end purpose of being "worshipped" or to have power/money and that will ultimately involve these sex rings. He has to make it seem like it was their idea (or Allison's). I think that is what differentiates cults from pyramid schemes. I guess I am saying this was probably always Keith's intent.  The more groups he creates, the more control that he has over the people because they are working harder/ feel more like they belong because there is a group for them.  

I can't tell what is going on with the timeline of the interviews. Sometimes they label it as to the year, but I am still not sure on all of them.

[StrawberryBlondie]

This is the one about NXIVM, right?

[waverly]

Sept 1, 2020 12:32:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

This is the one about NXIVM, right?

Yup

[basilosaurus]

Sept 1, 2020 12:32:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

This is the one about NXIVM, right?

I'd never even heard of them. And I read a lot about cults. 

[loira]

Is there anything new in this doc that wasn't in the CBC Uncover podcast? I do love a good cult documentary but I feel like the podcast was really thorough so I don't know what else can be learned about them...

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2020 16:20:32 GMT -5 loira said:

Is there anything new in this doc that wasn't in the CBC Uncover podcast? I do love a good cult documentary but I feel like the podcast was really thorough so I don't know what else can be learned about them...

I listened to that too and I am enjoying this. The podcast really focused so much on Sarah and her journey whereas so far she hasn’t had as big of a role. They have a lot of video and audio of Keith and Nancy Salzman so it’s interesting seeing him in action.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2020 20:17:53 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

Sept 2, 2020 16:20:32 GMT -5 loira said:

Is there anything new in this doc that wasn't in the CBC Uncover podcast? I do love a good cult documentary but I feel like the podcast was really thorough so I don't know what else can be learned about them...

I listened to that too and I am enjoying this. The podcast really focused so much on Sarah and her journey whereas so far she hasn’t had as big of a role. They have a lot of video and audio of Keith and Nancy Salzman so it’s interesting seeing him in action.

Looks like Sarah's story will play a bigger role next week as they get into what happened with her and the secret women's group. I wrote the above when I was about half-way through episode 2.

[loira]

Sept 3, 2020 9:57:00 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

Sept 2, 2020 20:17:53 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

I listened to that too and I am enjoying this. The podcast really focused so much on Sarah and her journey whereas so far she hasn’t had as big of a role. They have a lot of video and audio of Keith and Nancy Salzman so it’s interesting seeing him in action.

Looks like Sarah's story will play a bigger role next week as they get into what happened with her and the secret women's group. I wrote the above when I was about half-way through episode 2.

Don't worry, I started watching and am definitely enjoying, even if the Sarah episode might be a bit of a recap for me. It's weird seeing footage of Keith. He's so... icky!

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2020 15:27:53 GMT -5 loira said:

Sept 3, 2020 9:57:00 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

Looks like Sarah's story will play a bigger role next week as they get into what happened with her and the secret women's group. I wrote the above when I was about half-way through episode 2.

Don't worry, I started watching and am definitely enjoying, even if the Sarah episode might be a bit of a recap for me. It's weird seeing footage of Keith. He's so... icky!

Icky is the perfect word. I was so grossed out by all of it - him in his short shorts playing volleyball, though was peak nastiness. 

[wambam]

I think it’s interesting how therapy-esque their original program sounds. I’ve been doing a DBT workbook and I hear a lot of overlap.

Volleyball is a strange choice for cult activities lol.

[bronxgirl]

Sept 5, 2020 12:32:44 GMT -5 wambam said:

I think it’s interesting how therapy-esque their original program sounds. I’ve been doing a DBT workbook and I hear a lot of overlap.

Volleyball is a strange choice for cult activities lol.

Nancy Salzman was a psych nurse, so she used some of her background in the workshops.  That's also how they suck you in. It seems reasonable at first, and by the time you realize  how off it is, you're already invested.

[waverly]

Sept 5, 2020 18:48:56 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Sept 5, 2020 12:32:44 GMT -5 wambam said:

I think it’s interesting how therapy-esque their original program sounds. I’ve been doing a DBT workbook and I hear a lot of overlap.

Volleyball is a strange choice for cult activities lol.

Nancy Salzman was a psych nurse, so she used some of her background in the workshops.  That's also how they suck you in. It seems reasonable at first, and by the time you realize  how off it is, you're already invested.

Yup. Some of it sounded like very legit group therapy at first.

I definitely got the pyramid scheme vibe though when they have to teach all these classes and go up the ranks. I was assuming they weren’t getting paid for this and were actually spending their own money for the privilege of working from them. Which was confirmed by Bonnie later on.

[Deleted]

Ok so Keith is obviously disgusting but seeing the text messages from Lauren and being reminded of the actual brand and Alison's involvement, the two of them are just as vile.

[phunluvin82]

I could swear there was another documentary series that I had watched a little while back (about NXIVM) but I am googling and can’t find anything now. Anyway, I am about to start this bc I am always game to go down a rabbit hole about bizarre cults.

[AJL]

Sept 8, 2020 17:07:32 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I could swear there was another documentary series that I had watched a little while back (about NXIVM) but I am googling and can’t find anything now. Anyway, I am about to start this bc I am always game to go down a rabbit hole about bizarre cults.

There was a podcast by CBC that focused on Sarah's story with NXIVM.

[wambam]

I am bewildered that Lauren was so upset that Sarah shared the branding ceremony with Nippy. Like, WTF did Lauren expect? That Nippy would see giant ass scar on his wife’s body and be like “totes normal. NBD.” ?!

[Jalapeñomel]

Sept 8, 2020 17:07:32 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I could swear there was another documentary series that I had watched a little while back (about NXIVM) but I am googling and can’t find anything now. Anyway, I am about to start this bc I am always game to go down a rabbit hole about bizarre cults.

Hulu had one, but I don’t remember the name.

[waverly]

I appreciated Nippy. As soon as he saw that branding he flipped out, rightly so.

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2020 19:26:57 GMT -5 wambam said:

I am bewildered that Lauren was so upset that Sarah shared the branding ceremony with Nippy. Like, WTF did Lauren expect? That Nippy would see giant ass scar on his wife’s body and be like “totes normal. NBD.” ?!

OMG right? That was so stupid and all these bitches need to go down. I looked up Alison Mack's sentencing. It was supposed to have started in April but of course didn't happen. Keith's was supposed to happen in March, which didn't happen either.

[basilosaurus]

Sept 8, 2020 19:29:13 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Sept 8, 2020 17:07:32 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I could swear there was another documentary series that I had watched a little while back (about NXIVM) but I am googling and can’t find anything now. Anyway, I am about to start this bc I am always game to go down a rabbit hole about bizarre cults.

Hulu had one, but I don’t remember the name.

Cults and extreme belief. It's next on my quarnbinge list.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 10, 2020 8:01:28 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sept 8, 2020 19:29:13 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Hulu had one, but I don’t remember the name.

Cults and extreme belief. It's next on my quarnbinge list.

It's a solid series. Recommended.

[basilosaurus]

Sept 10, 2020 8:31:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Sept 10, 2020 8:01:28 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Cults and extreme belief. It's next on my quarnbinge list.

It's a solid series. Recommended.

Woah. I thought I knew quite a bit about these groups, but I'm still shocked by a lot. I thought I knew a fair amount about the Moonies, but I guess I haven't paid attention the last few years as the weaponry was incredibly jarring. I wish they'd done an episode in IFB, the cult that Duggars and other quiverfuls belong to. They also have a teen paramilitary training program. The also cover up abuse. Fucking TLC normalizes that shit.

@@@ TW@@@ if anyone is planning to watch either the HBO show or the hulu series there's lots of sexual abuse of children. I'm not easily triggered, but I couldn't help but cry more than once. 

wambam , I know you're my fellow cult follower. Have you seen the hulu series or the new HBO show?

[wambam]

Sept 11, 2020 1:27:46 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sept 10, 2020 8:31:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

It's a solid series. Recommended.

Woah. I thought I knew quite a bit about these groups, but I'm still shocked by a lot. I thought I knew a fair amount about the Moonies, but I guess I haven't paid attention the last few years as the weaponry was incredibly jarring. I wish they'd done an episode in IFB, the cult that Duggars and other quiverfuls belong to. They also have a teen paramilitary training program. The also cover up abuse. Fucking TLC normalizes that shit.

@@@ TW@@@ if anyone is planning to watch either the HBO show or the hulu series there's lots of sexual abuse of children. I'm not easily triggered, but I couldn't help but cry more than once. 

wambam, I know your my fellow cult follower. Have you seen the hulu series or the new HBO show?

Well I mean, I have posted multiple times in this thread lol

[basilosaurus]

wambam, Lol. I was on autopilot. Did you watch the hulu series?

[basilosaurus]

Ep 3 showed Grace Park in the wedding party and in other scenes. I had no idea she was involved. I rarely recognize even quite famous actors and even less frequently can name why I recognize here, but I recognized her and knew why. Not from BSG (which I really do need to binge as I missed all but an occasional episode originally) but from Hawaii 5-0 which I watched briefly while living there and had a huge crush.

I probably need someone to send BP meds b/c I'm so angry at all the abuses. Instead, I'm switching from going down the rabbit hole for a moment and going to something less heavy. I'll still read threads but need to not watch for a bit. Maybe a rewatch of community.

[wambam]

Sept 11, 2020 5:02:22 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

wambam, Lol. I was on autopilot. Did you watch the hulu series?

I haven’t but it’s on the list

[boxertdog]

Sept 11, 2020 6:50:19 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Ep 3 showed Grace Park in the wedding party and in other scenes. I had no idea she was involved. I rarely recognize even quite famous actors and even less frequently can name why I recognize here, but I recognized her and knew why. Not from BSG (which I really do need to binge as I missed all but an occasional episode originally) but from Hawaii 5-0 which I watched briefly while living there and had a huge crush.

I probably need someone to send BP meds b/c I'm so angry at all the abuses. Instead, I'm switching from going down the rabbit hole for a moment and going to something less heavy. I'll still read threads but need to not watch for a bit. Maybe a rewatch of community.

I watch her on A Million Little Things, and was pretty bummed to see her in all these videos. Was the group disbanded? I was wondering if she's still in involved.