Georgia is closing one of its mass vaccination sites due to low demand. I would imagine that influenced opening up the eligibility. Anyone who is in a rural area and is willing to be vaccinated should be vaccinated ASAP.
I'm going to push back on the "lying about eligibility" myth we're bandying about. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "There's a lot of people gaming the federal assistance programs". Honestly, has it been verified that people are line jumping, or is it a bunch of, "I know someone whose sister's husband's brother saw there was an appointment and took it. He doesn't have anything [that the poster knows of] wrong with them!"
Anyone I know who is not eligible but vaccinated anyway got it via a leftover doses situation.
Not just singling you out here. I think (as a grey state person) the issue is people here are realizing pharmacy's aren't verifying eligibility so they are jumping ahead.
Yes, to someone else's point, we still have a mask mandate and other precautions in place. But it feels like everyone is heading to the wild Wild West (TX/FL) for spring break and god knows what they are bringing back here!
I know that MN is doing a good job at getting shots in the arms. Just hard to see other states opening up and people lying about eligibility.
This isnāt the main reason Iām frustrated at the lack of an updated timeline, but this is true. I could have gone to any number of outstate Thrifty White pharmacies by now and stated that I have two underlying health conditions, not just the one, and no one would have checked/verified anything because pharmacies arenāt checking here. Iām not doing that, because I donāt want to be unethical and lie on a form, but plenty of people are.
Iām in MN too, am eligible for the shot and canāt find an appt. So while I get that youāre frustrated, I get why they are not opening up to the next round yet. Demand is high. And yes there are a few people gaming the system, most of us are not. Honestly I didnāt think I was eligible until I calculated my bmi since I have another chronic condition. Shots are hard to find (unless you have time to refresh your screen all day long or are willing to drive). There is an equity piece of this too and Iām not going to take from eligible folks at the neighborhood pop up sites.
I'm going to push back on the "lying about eligibility" myth we're bandying about. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "There's a lot of people gaming the federal assistance programs". Honestly, has it been verified that people are line jumping, or is it a bunch of, "I know someone whose sister's husband's brother saw there was an appointment and took it. He doesn't have anything [that the poster knows of] wrong with them!"
I thought the same thing, but in the last week I've heard about a childhood friend and her husband who straight up lied to get the vaccine (said they were teachers when they're not), a friend who isn't eligible but claimed he works in a group home, and a friend who used a low income/marginalized community link to get vaccinated when she's a white millionaire. A bunch of her white millionaire friends all did the same; that's how she got the link. All of these people are healthy, well-off, and in their 30s.
I don't know if there's any systematic data on line jumping, because it's happening behind the scenes. Maybe you could do anonymous polling and line jumpers would confess.
This isnāt the main reason Iām frustrated at the lack of an updated timeline, but this is true. I could have gone to any number of outstate Thrifty White pharmacies by now and stated that I have two underlying health conditions, not just the one, and no one would have checked/verified anything because pharmacies arenāt checking here. Iām not doing that, because I donāt want to be unethical and lie on a form, but plenty of people are.
Iām in MN too, am eligible for the shot and canāt find an appt. So while I get that youāre frustrated, I get why they are not opening up to the next round yet. Demand is high. And yes there are a few people gaming the system, most of us are not. Honestly I didnāt think I was eligible until I calculated my bmi since I have another chronic condition. Shots are hard to find (unless you have time to refresh your screen all day long or are willing to drive). There is an equity piece of this too and Iām not going to take from eligible folks at the neighborhood pop up sites.
Yeah. I have a kind of squick in my gut when I know people who are driving several hours to get vaccinated at a county that opened eligibility to everyone. Technically, they're doing nothing wrong, but also that takes a shitton of privilege to 1) know that event is happening, and 2) be able to take the time and resources to take advantage of it.
I'm going to push back on the "lying about eligibility" myth we're bandying about. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "There's a lot of people gaming the federal assistance programs". Honestly, has it been verified that people are line jumping, or is it a bunch of, "I know someone whose sister's husband's brother saw there was an appointment and took it. He doesn't have anything [that the poster knows of] wrong with them!"
I thought the same thing, but in the last week I've heard about a childhood friend and her husband who straight up lied to get the vaccine (said they were teachers when they're not), a friend who isn't eligible but claimed he works in a group home, and a friend who used a low income/marginalized community link to get vaccinated when she's a white millionaire. A bunch of her white millionaire friends all did the same; that's how she got the link. All of these people are healthy, well-off, and in their 30s.
I don't know if there's any systematic data on line jumping, because it's happening behind the scenes. Maybe you could do anonymous polling and line jumpers would confess.
And that begs the question of why these people are your friends?
My husband had his first dose of moderna on Friday and was in bad shape all weekend. Iāve never heard of someone having a reaction like that for the first dose. We just recovered from covid within the last 8 weeks so maybe that has Something to do with it? Heās scared for his second dose.
Have you joined the MN vaccine finder Facebook group? Itās really helpful if youāre eligible. Most people I know have had to drive 1-2 hours outside the twin cities though, since there always seem to be appointments in Greater MN - donāt know if thatās an option for you. Iāve helped a ton of eligible friends/family get appointments at Thrifty Whites. [/quote]
Thanks! Iāll look into that group. If I canāt get an appt soon, Iāll join the group for sure. Iām grateful people like you are willing to help others find appts. The distribution of vaccines across the state does seem to be an issue. I really wish the system and process were better. How are people who work in jobs where they canāt be online all day supposed to do this? Or who canāt drive an hour or three (one friend of mine drove tonred lake from the cities and another to Grand Rapidsāboth were eligible, but thatās a long way).
My husband had his first dose of moderna on Friday and was in bad shape all weekend. Iāve never heard of someone having a reaction like that for the first dose. We just recovered from covid within the last 8 weeks so maybe that has Something to do with it? Heās scared for his second dose.
I donāt know if my friend had Moderna or Pfizer, but she had a really bad reaction to her first shot. She got it on Friday. It triggered a several day long migraine for her that she finally went to the ER for. She had moderate Covid (no hospitalization because our hospitals were overwhelmed and basically not admitting anyone who could still breathe on their own when she was sick) within 90 days of her vaccine. Her (normally very proactive) doctor approved for her to delay getting her second shot a little while they look at some of the data floating around about whether a second shot is truly necessary for those who have had it.
I had another friend who had Covid and had a worse reaction to the first shot than the second.
I thought the same thing, but in the last week I've heard about a childhood friend and her husband who straight up lied to get the vaccine (said they were teachers when they're not), a friend who isn't eligible but claimed he works in a group home, and a friend who used a low income/marginalized community link to get vaccinated when she's a white millionaire. A bunch of her white millionaire friends all did the same; that's how she got the link. All of these people are healthy, well-off, and in their 30s.
I don't know if there's any systematic data on line jumping, because it's happening behind the scenes. Maybe you could do anonymous polling and line jumpers would confess.
And that begs the question of why these people are your friends?
Absolutely--everyone thinks they have a "good" reason to bend the rules, which is frankly bullshit. This whole year has been a friend/family reassessment experiment.
My husband had his first dose of moderna on Friday and was in bad shape all weekend. Iāve never heard of someone having a reaction like that for the first dose. We just recovered from covid within the last 8 weeks so maybe that has Something to do with it? Heās scared for his second dose.
My sister was basically knocked out for a week after her first Moderna shot and she had covid in November. Her second shot is today and she is dreading it, but is just focused on getting it over with. Her doctor feels pretty confident that if she skipped the second dose she'd still be well-protected, but the science isn't confirmed and wanted my sister to get the second shot since that's what's still recommended.
Post by georgeglass on Mar 24, 2021 5:53:48 GMT -5
pixy0stix, Our local vaccine finder fb group is having similar discussions about the rural vaccine clinics. There is one about 1.5 hours from me (but in another state) that regularly posts that they'll vaccinate anyone who can get there as long as they're over 18. People hem and haw about whether they should go - jumping the line, others need it first - and then the others in the group scream about wasted shots and just go get one. It's such a mess. The right answer - to me - is for them to reroute those doses to a facility that needs them for the current phases, but as you said, it's complicated.
āBut other people are cheating!ā Is not a convincing argument to me. That could apply to so much in life.
If you live somewhere they are having trouble filling their appointments, then the solution is that either there needs to be a campaign to reach out to the eligible who arenāt vaccinated to increase their access to those appointments, or if the qualified groups are fully vaccinated, open the next group. Cattle call free for alls arenāt a good solution. if your next tier really is free for all, then perhaps vaccines need to be allocated to other places where cancer survivors and other high risk groups are still waiting to become eligible.
I have thought a lot about the travel to other communities part. It is absolutely a sign of privilege. But also there are pockets in my state where it is very obvious shots are just sitting according to our vaccine hunter sites. Perhaps it is partially a access issue since you need the internet to access an appointment. But these are also deeply repub places so I think there is low acceptance rates.
After awhile I would rather see those shots get used. At some point my guess is the state will stop sending allocations. š¤·š»āāļø
I'm seeing mostly Moderna here. Who has had Pfizer? Just curious what your second shot experience was. I'm scheduled for my second during a busy week at work and getting nervous
I had my second dose of Pfizer this past Friday. I was a little worried because I had signed up for a Pound instructor training way before I got my shot, so I had no idea it was going to line up this way, but basically I did Day 1 of training, got my shot and then did Day 2!
I did take a Panadol just in case I had side effects but for the most part I felt fine and was able to get through the training (which was pretty physical!) without any issues. I did take a nap afterwards to let my body rest!
I did get a swollen lymph node so my arm pit was sore for more than a few days! I'm also oddly less hungry than usual (but not nauseous), but not sure if that's vaccine related or otherwise!
Good luck - I agree with the others who say to make sure you're hydrated! I think that helped me a lot :-)
The number of people I know who have ācheatedā had made me realize Iām friends with mostly assholes. Itās getting to the point where they are begging me to go get my shot, but....Iām not eligible yet. LOL. Itās insane and sad. Iāll be eligible 4/13 and I wish I could just schedule it now even if itās not until May.
I'm going to push back on the "lying about eligibility" myth we're bandying about. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "There's a lot of people gaming the federal assistance programs". Honestly, has it been verified that people are line jumping, or is it a bunch of, "I know someone whose sister's husband's brother saw there was an appointment and took it. He doesn't have anything [that the poster knows of] wrong with them!"
There was a recent news story here in Pasadena where they actually closed the site for the day because too many of the people showing up with appointments has lied about eligibility and werenāt actually eligible. There were also several news reports about the private links created to help get shots in arms of underserved groups were then forwarded to people who didnāt qualify and being used to make appointments. So itās not really a he said she said thing here.
Post by wanderingback on Mar 24, 2021 7:09:25 GMT -5
This is just speculation, but I'll be surprised if we actually get to 70% of our population vaccinated. I think it'll be around 50%. I think as of now 65% of people based on polls say they plan to or will get vaccinated, but that doesn't mean all of those people will make it a priority. Hopefully by next year between natural infections and vaccines the morbidity and mortality of covid-19 will just continue to go down. I looked at Alaska since pixy0stix mentioned it and it looks like they have appointments available everyday in Anchorage for example, so they might not be getting a ton of supply since supply is based on population, but there are appointments available. I don't know what is happening in rural Alaska as I'm sure that can be a logistical difficulty as well.
As far as equity goes, I was wondering why single dose pre-filled syringes weren't happening yet and I assumed it was because those are more expensive/take longer to manufacture. This article briefly discusses it: www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n263
It would go a long way if we were able to move away from multi-dose vials. I know the J&J vaccine there are 5 doses per vial, and the vial has to be used within 6 hours. My office is interested in vaccinating for our patients and their families, and we've signed up to do so, but the logistics of not wanting to waste doses and the requirements that they have in place for those administering are really difficult for small offices like mine. But people trust us and we'd likely get more uptick and most of my patients are front line workers so would benefit from being vaccinated. Otherwise most of my patients aren't hunting down appointments on their own in general.
I'm actually on a panel tonight for a local community re: covid vaccine and people have submitted questions and it's interesting to see people's thought processes. Hopefully I can help answer questions, so that people will have more accurate information before deciding whether or not to get vaccinated. Just as people are worried about the unknown effects of covid itself, people are worried about the unknown effects of the covid vaccines, so I think both viewpoints are valid and shouldn't be dismissed.
This is just speculation, but I'll be surprised if we actually get to 70% of our population vaccinated. I think it'll be around 50%. I think as of now 65% of people based on polls say they plan to or will get vaccinated, but that doesn't mean all of those people will make it a priority. Hopefully by next year between natural infections and vaccines the morbidity and mortality of covid-19 will just continue to go down.
This is really depressing to me...but it would be similar to the % of the population that chooses to get a flu shot each year, so maybe not surprising.
Another thing I was reading about is the āintention action gapā where people intend to do something but just donāt get around to it. Theyāve seen an improved rate of people getting the flu vaccine where the appointments are automatically made and people have to opt out versus taking the time/energy to make the appointments themselves. Maybe when we get to a place of increased supply something like that could be implemented
āBut other people are cheating!ā Is not a convincing argument to me. That could apply to so much in life.
If you live somewhere they are having trouble filling their appointments, then the solution is that either there needs to be a campaign to reach out to the eligible who arenāt vaccinated to increase their access to those appointments, or if the qualified groups are fully vaccinated, open the next group. Cattle call free for alls arenāt a good solution. if your next tier really is free for all, then perhaps vaccines need to be allocated to other places where cancer survivors and other high risk groups are still waiting to become eligible.
Yes. I just read something on Twitter that a very small proportion of 85+ year olds in NY state have been vaccinated, for example.
The eligibility groups have been so unclear and changed so many times in my state- I donāt blame people who are getting the shot if they are confused or trying to get answers. Our county just finally got back to us since we started asking in January- 3 months later. I do blame people if they are straight up lying.
Post by Velar Fricative on Mar 24, 2021 8:13:56 GMT -5
This is a very detailed and informative look at what a group of vaccine registration volunteers have experienced as they've helped people secure vaccinations. There is some NYC-specific details but I imagine the barriers are similar in other major cities as well as anywhere, really. We've talked a lot about parts of this (lack of time to search for vaccines, lack of tech, lack of transportation) but it was interesting reading firsthand details. Probably the most eye-opening part for me (and now I feel dumb for not realizing it earlier because it does make so much sense) is that a big reason many people haven't gone for their vaccine yet despite already being eligible is because they're waiting for other family or household members to be eligible so they can all go together, for a variety of reasons.
This is just speculation, but I'll be surprised if we actually get to 70% of our population vaccinated. I think it'll be around 50%. I think as of now 65% of people based on polls say they plan to or will get vaccinated, but that doesn't mean all of those people will make it a priority. Hopefully by next year between natural infections and vaccines the morbidity and mortality of covid-19 will just continue to go down. I looked at Alaska since pixy0stix mentioned it and it looks like they have appointments available everyday in Anchorage for example, so they might not be getting a ton of supply since supply is based on population, but there are appointments available. I don't know what is happening in rural Alaska as I'm sure that can be a logistical difficulty as well.
As far as equity goes, I was wondering why single dose pre-filled syringes weren't happening yet and I assumed it was because those are more expensive/take longer to manufacture. This article briefly discusses it: www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n263
It would go a long way if we were able to move away from multi-dose vials. I know the J&J vaccine there are 5 doses per vial, and the vial has to be used within 6 hours. My office is interested in vaccinating for our patients and their families, and we've signed up to do so, but the logistics of not wanting to waste doses and the requirements that they have in place for those administering are really difficult for small offices like mine. But people trust us and we'd likely get more uptick and most of my patients are front line workers so would benefit from being vaccinated. Otherwise most of my patients aren't hunting down appointments on their own in general.
I'm actually on a panel tonight for a local community re: covid vaccine and people have submitted questions and it's interesting to see people's thought processes. Hopefully I can help answer questions, so that people will have more accurate information before deciding whether or not to get vaccinated. Just as people are worried about the unknown effects of covid itself, people are worried about the unknown effects of the covid vaccines, so I think both viewpoints are valid and shouldn't be dismissed.
I also think we will see more people seeking out the vaccine in big cities and less so in rural areas. I am pleasantly surprised by how many people I know that have either already gotten the vaccine or want one. Demand here in Houston is still very high. In the smaller towns surrounding us you can find appointments easily and many were opening up to everyone long before Texas opened up availability. This is a problem.
I think we can get to over 50% but it's going to take a lot of effort. We need to find out a way to get the vaccines to people in a way that doesn't involve a computer or effort. Like workplaces will need to offer Covid vaccine clinics like they do for the flu shots and we are going to need a LOT more of the community pop up events that are starting to happen here in hard hit areas. If we could get more of the J&J vaccine that would help, too. Getting the Covid vaccine is straight up privilege. You have to have computer access. You have to be Internet savvy. THEN you have to have a job that is flexible with time off to not just get the vaccine but also to deal with the side effects. We've got to find a better way around that. The one shot with fewer side effects is going to be key I think.
I'm going to guess we start seeing rates rise when appointments become as easy as walking into a facility. I have several bright, computer savy individuals in my work group that just didn't want to bother refreshing 600 sites, joining a FB group, and calling several places a day. It was to the point, as I said upthread, that they didn't even want to fill out a simple 2 field work survey. They want to get vaxxed, they just don't want to have to work for it.
I'm seeing mostly Moderna here. Who has had Pfizer? Just curious what your second shot experience was. I'm scheduled for my second during a busy week at work and getting nervous
I had my 2nd shot 23 hours ago. So far I feel totally fine. My arm doesn't hurt as much as the first shot, either. I did go to bed early last night because I was tired, but I'm often tired so I don't know if it was really because of that. I figured it was better to just listen to my body and sleep than to push it and potentially make myself feel bad, but I probably *could have* stayed up later if I ignored it.
I blocked off my work calendar today just in case I felt crappy, but at this rate I figure I'll work the full day.
The number of people I know who have ācheatedā had made me realize Iām friends with mostly assholes. Itās getting to the point where they are begging me to go get my shot, but....Iām not eligible yet. LOL. Itās insane and sad. Iāll be eligible 4/13 and I wish I could just schedule it now even if itās not until May.
I know one person who has "cheated". She is young, works retail, so deals with the public daily. And our county got a national guard supported vaccine clinic a while ago that _really_ increased our area's vaccination rate.
Said friend waited until it was becoming apparent that local demand for the shot was low enough that vaccine appointments released midday on Sunday were still not all booked a couple days later... our local news agencies are all talking about vaccine availability, and there are multiple avenues for folks to sign up if they have internet issues. And still open appointments.
At that point, I don't really blame said buddy for booking an appointment. She waited until it was obvious that, at least here, we should open up to the next group, and she decided to jump the line a bit once that was obvious. Another buddy drive her to the appointment, and noted that it was quite apparent that many younger folks had come to the same conclusion.
The number of people I know who have ācheatedā had made me realize Iām friends with mostly assholes. Itās getting to the point where they are begging me to go get my shot, but....Iām not eligible yet. LOL. Itās insane and sad. Iāll be eligible 4/13 and I wish I could just schedule it now even if itās not until May.
I know one person who has "cheated". She is young, works retail, so deals with the public daily. And our county got a national guard supported vaccine clinic a while ago that _really_ increased our area's vaccination rate.
Said friend waited until it was becoming apparent that local demand for the shot was low enough that vaccine appointments released midday on Sunday were still not all booked a couple days later... our local news agencies are all talking about vaccine availability, and there are multiple avenues for folks to sign up if they have internet issues. And still open appointments.
At that point, I don't really blame said buddy for booking an appointment. She waited until it was obvious that, at least here, we should open up to the next group, and she decided to jump the line a bit once that was obvious. Another buddy drive her to the appointment, and noted that it was quite apparent that many younger folks had come to the same conclusion.
Yeah--I wouldn't really consider that cheating. I have a few friends who's routes to a vaccine are especially egregious. And truly are cheating.
I'm going to push back on the "lying about eligibility" myth we're bandying about. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "There's a lot of people gaming the federal assistance programs". Honestly, has it been verified that people are line jumping, or is it a bunch of, "I know someone whose sister's husband's brother saw there was an appointment and took it. He doesn't have anything [that the poster knows of] wrong with them!"
There was a recent news story here in Pasadena where they actually closed the site for the day because too many of the people showing up with appointments has lied about eligibility and werenāt actually eligible. There were also several news reports about the private links created to help get shots in arms of underserved groups were then forwarded to people who didnāt qualify and being used to make appointments. So itās not really a he said she said thing here.
I just got done reading a news story that details how the US is focusing more on the bad news than the good news, and based on the number of articles I've read about line jumpers (where there isn't a whole lot of substantiated data within the news story) I think that's going on a lot. (article: www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/briefing/boulder-shooting-george-segal-astrazeneca.html)
In your instance, how many people used the link in bad faith vs those that were eligible? Did they receive the link and think it was legitimately for them? What were the other mitigating factors? I'm a pretty doom and gloom person, but I just can't think that out of the 44 million people vaccinated so far (source), more than 5% have gotten it by lying.
The eligibility groups have been so unclear and changed so many times in my state- I donāt blame people who are getting the shot if they are confused or trying to get answers. Our county just finally got back to us since we started asking in January- 3 months later. I do blame people if they are straight up lying.
A neighboring county opened up all phases last week so I got an appointment, but then they backtracked and closed it to my tier so I donāt know what to do