Russia/Ukraine

[foundmylazybum]

Feb 28, 2022 12:51:28 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

wanderingback The racism in the press is in full flow currently. 'Civilised' country; people 'like us'; seeing a war in our lifetime; all the rest of it.

There was a group of about 40 Jamaican young people studying medicine in carious cities in Ukraine. Fees are about US$3,500 per year so a lot more affordable than other places. These kids are clearly bright kids, who are super motivated; and come from very poor families. Some got out just before things got bad; and the main group of 24 made it to Poland last night. The group met up in L'viv (some were there already and waited for the others to come before tryign to leave). They had to walk a lot of the journey to the border, with 2 of them getting ill on the way. They never left anyone behind and always took the pace of the weakest. It is a great example of looking after each other. I really hope they are able to get scholarships to other medical schools now after all they have been through.

My heart goes out to these young people. I read an article from 5 days ago where some of them were interviewed and they spoke about how they didn't want to leave bc schooling in Jamaica is so much more expensive and they thought things wouldn't escalate in Ukraine 😶😐. I hope they all find safety.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Feb 28, 2022 15:25:56 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I am dying to know if Putin expected alllllllll of this to happen. The dominos just keep falling for him. FFS, even Switzerland isn't acting neutral.

I would bet significant dollars he expected none of this.

[lilac05]

Feb 28, 2022 17:17:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Feb 28, 2022 15:25:56 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I am dying to know if Putin expected alllllllll of this to happen. The dominos just keep falling for him. FFS, even Switzerland isn't acting neutral.

I would bet significant dollars he expected none of this.

I honestly don’t think many people expected this! The strength and bravery of the Ukrainian people has been inspirational and far beyond what I ever would have imagined. Other countries standing up and not mincing words and tip-toeing around the situation has also been stronger than I think most people anticipated. And even Switzerland taking a side so early…or at all…was unexpected by many/most.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I just got back from the grocery store and they had a big display of paska at the front.

So it appears my suburban grocery store stands with Ukraine.

[cous0226]

Feb 28, 2022 17:17:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Feb 28, 2022 15:25:56 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I am dying to know if Putin expected alllllllll of this to happen. The dominos just keep falling for him. FFS, even Switzerland isn't acting neutral.

I would bet significant dollars he expected none of this.

It’s just not clear how Putin gets his news. From what I’ve heard, he has yes people around him only. I don’t know if he is sitting there watching CNN

[gault]

Feb 28, 2022 19:16:15 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

Feb 28, 2022 17:17:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I would bet significant dollars he expected none of this.

It’s just not clear how Putin gets his news. From what I’ve heard, he has yes people around him only. I don’t know if he is sitting there watching CNN

Sounds like someone else we know.

[pixy0stix]

Shell and BP pulled out of Russian oil - www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/shell-to-exit-joint-ventures-with-gazprom-and-pull-out-of-nord-stream-2

www.reuters.com/business/energy/britains-bp-says-exit-stake-russian-oil-giant-rosneft-2022-02-27/

[neverfstop]

The war itself is horrible, but I am feeling some tiny bit of hope about humanity seeing all these amazing stories. From citizens in Ukraine stepping up, from US servicemembers telling Ukraine's how to attack Russian tanks, from many of the European countries finally doing something, to the big companies jumping into support Ukraine (Microsoft, Elon/Starlink, BP & SHell). It's the only thing keeping me from really losing it....


www.nytimes.com/2022/02/28/us/politics/ukraine-russia-microsoft.html

WASHINGTON — Last Wednesday, a few hours before Russian tanks began rolling into Ukraine, alarms went off inside Microsoft’s Threat Intelligence Center, warning of a never-before-seen piece of “wiper” malware that appeared aimed at the country’s government ministries and financial institutions.

Within three hours, Microsoft threw itself into the middle of a ground war in Europe — from 5,500 miles away. The threat center, north of Seattle, had been on high alert, and it quickly picked apart the malware, named it “FoxBlade” and notified Ukraine’s top cyberdefense authority. Within three hours, Microsoft’s virus detection systems had been updated to block the code, which erases — “wipes” — data on computers in a network.

Then Tom Burt, the senior Microsoft executive who oversees the company’s effort to counter major cyberattacks, contacted Anne Neuberger, the White House’s deputy national security adviser for cyber- and emerging technologies. Ms. Neuberger asked if Microsoft would consider sharing details of the code with the Baltics, Poland and other European nations, out of fear that the malware would spread beyond Ukraine’s borders, crippling the military alliance or hitting West European banks.

[pixy0stix]

I didn't realize that part of the sanctions could be seizing property from the oligarchs. www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/russian-oligarchs-move-yachts-as-us-moves-to-hunt-down-and-freeze-assets.html

[fryjack2]

Feb 27, 2022 14:35:20 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Not surprising, but the media coverage is super racist (insert angry emoji here). More than one journalist has talked about Ukrainians being civilized and Christian unlike Syrians and Afghans.

Yeah, I've been struck by the difference in coverage of this and the conflict in Israel/Palestine. And Syria.  And Afghanistan.  And and and and anywhere that is not white.  Perpetuating that Arab Muslims or non-white people are bad, even when they are doing the same thing in their own countries-fighting for freedom and their country not to be taken over by another one.

And while its amazing to see so many places open their doors to expedite refugees visas, it doesn't happen for other nationalities.  I also worry about more tension in the Middle East as people relocate to Israel and Palestinian land continues to be taken to house Israelis.  

This situation in Ukraine is horrible and I find myself angry not just at Putin but almost more so at the world for ignoring the atrocities that happen on a daily basis elsewhere because of racism. 

[fryjack2]

Feb 28, 2022 12:51:28 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

wanderingback The racism in the press is in full flow currently. 'Civilised' country; people 'like us'; seeing a war in our lifetime; all the rest of it.

There was a group of about 40 Jamaican young people studying medicine in carious cities in Ukraine. Fees are about US$3,500 per year so a lot more affordable than other places. These kids are clearly bright kids, who are super motivated; and come from very poor families. Some got out just before things got bad; and the main group of 24 made it to Poland last night. The group met up in L'viv (some were there already and waited for the others to come before tryign to leave). They had to walk a lot of the journey to the border, with 2 of them getting ill on the way. They never left anyone behind and always took the pace of the weakest. It is a great example of looking after each other. I really hope they are able to get scholarships to other medical schools now after all they have been through.

If you hear of any of them relocating to the city I am in, please let me know. We would be happy to help with whatever they need- a place to stay, help navigating a new place, etc. 

[jamaicam]

Feb 28, 2022 22:13:46 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Feb 28, 2022 12:51:28 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

wanderingback The racism in the press is in full flow currently. 'Civilised' country; people 'like us'; seeing a war in our lifetime; all the rest of it.

There was a group of about 40 Jamaican young people studying medicine in carious cities in Ukraine. Fees are about US$3,500 per year so a lot more affordable than other places. These kids are clearly bright kids, who are super motivated; and come from very poor families. Some got out just before things got bad; and the main group of 24 made it to Poland last night. The group met up in L'viv (some were there already and waited for the others to come before tryign to leave). They had to walk a lot of the journey to the border, with 2 of them getting ill on the way. They never left anyone behind and always took the pace of the weakest. It is a great example of looking after each other. I really hope they are able to get scholarships to other medical schools now after all they have been through.

If you hear of any of them relocating to the city I am in, please let me know. We would be happy to help with whatever they need- a place to stay, help navigating a new place, etc. 

Thanks will do. They are alk smart and hard working (they were all bright enough to get into med school here) ps the government is working with private sector to see where they can get into now and what scholarships they can help them find.

[aurora]

This piece talks about Putin's miscalculation and how so many are stepping up for Ukraine.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/02/vladimir-putin-ukraine-invasion-liberal-order/622950/

[hermione]

Is there someplace (or several places) we should be sending money?

Sorry if this info is upthread and I missed it.

[bears]

Mar 1, 2022 10:49:31 GMT -5 hermione said:

Is there someplace (or several places) we should be sending money?

Sorry if this info is upthread and I missed it.

www.hias.org/ to support refugees.

[icedcoffee]

Mar 1, 2022 10:49:31 GMT -5 hermione said:

Is there someplace (or several places) we should be sending money?

Sorry if this info is upthread and I missed it.

Razom for Ukraine is one of the best:  razomforukraine.org/

This is for Ukrainian independent media (a friend of a friend):  www.gofundme.com/f/keep-ukraines-media-going

And here's a list provided by a friend who is on the ground in Ukraine:  neweasterneurope.eu/2022/02/24/ukraine-under-attack-how-to-help/?fbclid=IwAR0HtkzMdKGD9Hvs2FmM-B7FrZha65OqNI5JvWi9DQtWH4noUYYYcGbv3wI

[jinkies]

Mar 1, 2022 10:49:31 GMT -5 hermione said:

Is there someplace (or several places) we should be sending money?

Sorry if this info is upthread and I missed it.

A Ukrainian friend has posted these recommendations: 


United Ukrainian American Relief Committee, Inc. (ЗУАДК) www.uuarc.org/ 
Razom for Ukraine: razomforukraine.org/
United Help Ukraine (medical aid and humanitarian relief): unitedhelpukraine.org/
UNHCR (refugee help): www.unrefugees.org/
Ukrainian American Coordinating Council (providing helmets/armory vests): uaccusa.org/
Sunflower of Peace (medical/humanitarian aid): www.sunflowerofpeace.com/ 

[Velar Fricative]

The Pentagon shared that Russian troops are surrendering or sabotaging vehicles rather than fight.

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/01/world/ukraine-russia-war

No idea how prevalent this is, but they have received reports confirming these situations and may explain why this has not been as easy for Russia as the world expected. But it shouldn't be taken as a hint that Russia will retreat. I've wondered about how Russian troops have been feeling. I know they're not a monolith but there have to be some (many?) who are at least internally thinking "WTF are we doing here?"

[icedcoffee]

Mar 1, 2022 12:49:59 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

The Pentagon shared that Russian troops are surrendering or sabotaging vehicles rather than fight.

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/01/world/ukraine-russia-war

No idea how prevalent this is, but they have received reports confirming these situations and may explain why this has not been as easy for Russia as the world expected. But it shouldn't be taken as a hint that Russia will retreat. I've wondered about how Russian troops have been feeling. I know they're not a monolith but there have to be some (many?) who are at least internally thinking "WTF are we doing here?"

@@@@ Adding a self harm trigger warning.

Have you seen this? It’s heartbreaking.

[Velar Fricative]

OMG icedcoffee. Devastating. I can still read some Russian and that translation checks out. My goodness.

[icedcoffee]

Mar 1, 2022 13:30:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

OMG icedcoffee . Devastating. I can still read some Russian and that translation checks out. My goodness.

It's heartbreaking.  I believe Ukraine has confirmed he has passed.  That's his phone they found. 

[lilac05]

I feel like I’m hearing two completely different stories about what is happening in Ukraine.

Looking only at some sources, Russia is making progress, picking up speed, things are about to get really, really bad.

Yet other sources suggest that while things ARE bad, Russia is surprisingly ineffective and the Ukrainians are putting up a hell of a fight, Russian tanks are breaking down, and things are going much better than anticipated, stories like the farmer towing the tank away, etc.

I’m sure there’s truth in both parts…but I don’t feel like I have a good grasp of what is actually happening.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 1, 2022 13:47:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I feel like I’m hearing two completely different stories about what is happening in Ukraine.

Looking only at some sources, Russia is making progress, picking up speed, things are about to get really, really bad.

Yet other sources suggest that while things ARE bad, Russia is surprisingly ineffective and the Ukrainians are putting up a hell of a fight, Russian tanks are breaking down, and things are going much better than anticipated, stories like the farmer towing the tank away, etc.

I’m sure there’s truth in both parts…but I don’t feel like I have a good grasp of what is actually happening.

These seem to be both correct. While Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight and everyone expected Russia to have overtaken the majority cities and likely Kyiv by now, Russia is clearly moving onto more severe actions and it's anticipated things will get worse. Mostly because Putin is so unpredictable. But predictable enough that experts know he won't surrender easily, if at all.

And Putin knows for Russia to surrender, he'd need to be dead. Which is why his meetings with his own close advisors are taking place at tables where he's on one end and the rest are on the other end, but the table is as long as the Nile. The guy knows how to poison people, he knows he needs to take social distancing reallllllly seriously.

[Vespasia]

Mar 1, 2022 12:49:59 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

The Pentagon shared that Russian troops are surrendering or sabotaging vehicles rather than fight.

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/01/world/ukraine-russia-war

No idea how prevalent this is, but they have received reports confirming these situations and may explain why this has not been as easy for Russia as the world expected. But it shouldn't be taken as a hint that Russia will retreat. I've wondered about how Russian troops have been feeling. I know they're not a monolith but there have to be some (many?) who are at least internally thinking "WTF are we doing here?"

Most of my knowledge on this subject dates back to the Chechen Wars but the abuse of soldiers within the Russian military is really horrific. There's a system of hazing called dedovshchina that leads to hundreds or more deaths annually. Allegedly there's been a lot of reform over the past 20 years but I don't believe it. 

While my main sympathies are with the Ukrainian people, I also feel for the Russian soldiers who are there against their will fighting a war masterminded by an evil asshole heading a corrupt government that cares little for it's people. I'm sure that isn't all of them, but I imagine it's a pretty significant number. 

[icedcoffee]

A friend of a friend was born in Ukraine, but has lived most of his life in the US. He's flying to Poland later this week, delivering as much gear and supplies as he can fly with and then crossing the border into Ukraine and enlisting. The bravery just leaves me totally speechless.

[karinothing]

Mar 1, 2022 13:53:29 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Mar 1, 2022 13:47:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I feel like I’m hearing two completely different stories about what is happening in Ukraine.

Looking only at some sources, Russia is making progress, picking up speed, things are about to get really, really bad.

Yet other sources suggest that while things ARE bad, Russia is surprisingly ineffective and the Ukrainians are putting up a hell of a fight, Russian tanks are breaking down, and things are going much better than anticipated, stories like the farmer towing the tank away, etc.

I’m sure there’s truth in both parts…but I don’t feel like I have a good grasp of what is actually happening.

These seem to be both correct. While Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight and everyone expected Russia to have overtaken the majority cities and likely Kyiv by now, Russia is clearly moving onto more severe actions and it's anticipated things will get worse. Mostly because Putin is so unpredictable. But predictable enough that experts know he won't surrender easily, if at all.

And Putin knows for Russia to surrender, he'd need to be dead. Which is why his meetings with his own close advisors are taking place at tables where he's on one end and the rest are on the other end, but the table is as long as the Nile. The guy knows how to poison people, he knows he needs to take social distancing reallllllly seriously.

blow darts

[cattledogkisses]

This was a long but informative read. 

www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

Hill spent many years studying history, and in our conversation, she repeatedly traced how long arcs and trends of European history are converging on Ukraine right now. We are already, she said, in the middle of a third World War, whether we’ve fully grasped it or not.

“Sadly, we are treading back through old historical patterns that we said that we would never permit to happen again,” Hill told me.

Those old historical patterns include Western businesses who fail to see how they help build a tyrant’s war chest, admirers enamored of an autocrat’s “strength” and politicians’ tendency to point fingers inward for political gain instead of working together for their nation’s security.

But at the same time, Hill says it’s not too late to turn Putin back, and it’s a job not just for the Ukrainians or for NATO — it’s a job that ordinary Westerners and companies can assist in important ways once they grasp what’s at stake.

“Ukraine has become the front line in a struggle, not just between democracies and autocracies but in a struggle for maintaining a rules-based system in which the things that countries want are not taken by force,” Hill said. “Every country in the world should be paying close attention to this.”

There’s lots of danger ahead, she warned. Putin is increasingly operating emotionally and likely to use all the weapons at his disposal, including nuclear ones. It’s important not to have any illusions — but equally important not to lose hope.
“Every time you think, ’No, he wouldn’t, would he?’ Well, yes, he would,” Hill said. “And he wants us to know that, of course. It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared…. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.”

[kath16]

Mar 1, 2022 14:36:41 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Mar 1, 2022 13:53:29 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

These seem to be both correct. While Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight and everyone expected Russia to have overtaken the majority cities and likely Kyiv by now, Russia is clearly moving onto more severe actions and it's anticipated things will get worse. Mostly because Putin is so unpredictable. But predictable enough that experts know he won't surrender easily, if at all.

And Putin knows for Russia to surrender, he'd need to be dead. Which is why his meetings with his own close advisors are taking place at tables where he's on one end and the rest are on the other end, but the table is as long as the Nile. The guy knows how to poison people, he knows he needs to take social distancing reallllllly seriously.

blow darts

I mean… guns? Snipers?

I’m hoping that’s how this ends bc I don’t know what else will end it.

[karinothing]

Mar 1, 2022 14:59:35 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Mar 1, 2022 14:36:41 GMT -5 karinothing said:

blow darts

I mean… guns? Snipers?

I’m hoping that’s how this ends bc I don’t know what else will end it.

Ha, just figured it be easier to sneak a blow dart through security

[kath16]

Mar 1, 2022 15:09:14 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Mar 1, 2022 14:59:35 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I mean… guns? Snipers?

I’m hoping that’s how this ends bc I don’t know what else will end it.

Ha, just figured it be easier to sneak a blow dart through security

I like the way you think.