Russia/Ukraine

[suzyp]

Mar 16, 2022 14:07:05 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Mar 16, 2022 13:50:04 GMT -5 carmenere said:

To make this war as painful and costly for Putin as possible without getting us into a direct conflict with Russia?

Sorry, I should have clarified that I’m wondering about Putin’s end game.

I think Putin believed that he'd be able to take over Ukraine quickly and easily - he knew that no NATO country would step into fight because of the larger consequences.  I think he completely underestimated the Ukraine people, Zelensky, and the West's reaction and depth of the financial and other sanctions.  The response when he took Crimea was basically nothing.  I don't think there is a good way out for him that does not humiliate him and that's problematic because I think he is backed into a corner. I don't think he has much to lose, which again, is a problem.

[jlt19]

Mar 16, 2022 14:20:50 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Mar 16, 2022 14:07:05 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Sorry, I should have clarified that I’m wondering about Putin’s end game.

I think Putin believed that he'd be able to take over Ukraine quickly and easily - he knew that no NATO country would step into fight because of the larger consequences.  I think he completely underestimated the Ukraine people, Zelensky, and the West's reaction and depth of the financial and other sanctions.  The response when he took Crimea was basically nothing.  I don't think there is a good way out for him that does not humiliate him and that's problematic because I think he is backed into a corner. I don't think he has much to lose, which again, is a problem.

I agree. He’s a textbook narcissist, so no way will he retreat on his own. He’s already shown he couldn’t care less about the Russian people, so most of these sanctions aren’t affecting him. Only way he backs down is if one of the oligarch’s loses a lot and has any pee tapes on him.

[dutchgirl678]

Mar 16, 2022 16:05:29 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Mar 16, 2022 14:20:50 GMT -5 suzyp said:

I think Putin believed that he'd be able to take over Ukraine quickly and easily - he knew that no NATO country would step into fight because of the larger consequences.  I think he completely underestimated the Ukraine people, Zelensky, and the West's reaction and depth of the financial and other sanctions.  The response when he took Crimea was basically nothing.  I don't think there is a good way out for him that does not humiliate him and that's problematic because I think he is backed into a corner. I don't think he has much to lose, which again, is a problem.

I agree. He’s a textbook narcissist, so no way will he retreat on his own. He’s already shown he couldn’t care less about the Russian people, so most of these sanctions aren’t affecting him. Only way he backs down is if one of the oligarch’s loses a lot and has any pee tapes on him.

Putin himself is rumored to be the richest man on earth. He has a lot of wealth hidden away in offshore accounts, properties, etc.

fortune.com/2022/03/02/vladimir-putin-net-worth-2022/

These sanctions hurt his personal wealth and that of the oligarchs around him. According to the article I posted, their wealth is linked as they are forced to give him 50%.

[anodyne]

Here is a list of companies that have stakes in Russia and how they have responded (leaving, suspending or thumbing their nose)

Koch Industries, Subway and Cinnamon are digging in.

m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fyale.box.com%2Fs%2F11lqy1d3yn1kf9xa3r96k9sb6w5m4qea

[bears]

Mar 16, 2022 21:48:53 GMT -5 anodyne said:

Here is a list of companies that have stakes in Russia and how they have responded (leaving, suspending or thumbing their nose)

Koch Industries, Subway and Cinnamon are digging in.

m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fyale.box.com%2Fs%2F11lqy1d3yn1kf9xa3r96k9sb6w5m4qea

I was a bit curious if Koch's justification was due to their agricultural business and potential humanitarian impacts of not supplying fertilizer to farmers...newp, seems to be 100% conservative interests: www.cbsnews.com/news/koch-industries-russia-ukraine-sanctions/

[fluffycookie]

Putin is taking aim at his own people. He is a terrifying man.

"Russian President Vladimir Putin went on television Wednesday to excoriate Russians who don’t back him.

Russians “will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and will simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths,” he said. “I am convinced that such a natural and necessary self-purification of society will only strengthen our country.”

www.reuters.com/world/putin-warns-russia-against-pro-western-traitors-scum-2022-03-16/

[shauni27]

Mar 17, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5 fluffycookie said:

Putin is taking aim at his own people. He is a terrifying man.

"Russian President Vladimir Putin went on television Wednesday to excoriate Russians who don’t back him.

Russians “will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and will simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths,” he said. “I am convinced that such a natural and necessary self-purification of society will only strengthen our country.”

www.reuters.com/world/putin-warns-russia-against-pro-western-traitors-scum-2022-03-16/

he and trump are the exact same. Fucking hell, such an egomaniacal sociopath.

[basilosaurus]

Sociopaths can't be stopped. My bed partner is invinced it will go to nuclear. I cannot brain let me go there. But it still go there. What would happen. I hate my brain right now

[Birdie]

Mar 18, 2022 13:20:16 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sociopaths can't be stopped. My bed partner is invinced it will go to nuclear. I cannot brain let me go there. But it still go there. What would happen. I hate my brain right now

I'm envisioning an East Ukraine / West Ukraine situation ala Cold War Berlin. I don't know if Zelenskyy would let that happen though.

[waverly]

Mar 18, 2022 13:20:16 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sociopaths can't be stopped. My bed partner is invinced it will go to nuclear. I cannot brain let me go there. But it still go there. What would happen. I hate my brain right now

I know. I’m planning my nuclear escape routes away from large cities but the truth is there is no escape. Or planning to go to Canada but Putin will strike Canada too because they are our allies . So yeah this scenario sucks. And he’s totally nuts so….

[basilosaurus]

Hes convinced that there will be no consequences if nuclear. And I kind of agree. I cannot believe it will ever get that, but if it did, is there a single thing the world can do? How do we handle a sociopathic bad actor?

[underwaterrhymes]

I read that - much like here in the United States - there are several people involved in making the decision to launch nuclear weapons.

With nearly every single country against Russia (and China looking like it’s not going to ally themselves with them after all), I am holding onto hope that this is not the route they will go.

Also, I don’t think Putin is crazy. I think he’s narcissistic and evil and has a strong sense of self-preservation.

I think the bigger fear is increasing food scarcity since 30% of the world’s grains come from Russia and Ukraine.

[basilosaurus]

Candace Owens' "pure ignorance" (quote by a pulitzer journalist) is nothing new. But now, like fucker carlson, the Kremlin is airing her dangerous utter stupidity in furtherance of their own propaganda. She, while insulting people who live in reality based world, saying "Ukraine wasn't a thing until 1989."

www.unilad.co.uk/news/candace-owens-mocked-saying-ukraine-wasnt-thing-until-1989-20220319

[Bernadine]

Pod Save the World interviewed a 26 year old Ukrainian politician last week, and it was so moving. These Ukrainians are so passionate, so eloquent, even in English. It’s all just so heartbreaking.

[icedcoffee]

North Korea launched a long range middle into the sea. 😬

[TR]

Mar 24, 2022 8:31:47 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

North Korea launched a long range middle into the sea. 😬

Someone's jealous of all the attention Putin's getting.

[Bernadine]

There are reports that Russia is deporting people from Mariupol.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/us-decries-disturbing-accounts-of-ukrainians-deported-to-russia

[basilosaurus]

Mar 25, 2022 9:19:16 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

There are reports that Russia is deporting people from Mariupol.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/us-decries-disturbing-accounts-of-ukrainians-deported-to-russia

That's almost a week old. There is satellite imagery now that supports these chilling claims. 

inews.co.uk/news/ukraine-russia-war-putin-mauripol-deportations-filtration-camps-1539050-1539050

[Vespasia]

A Ukrainian airstrike has hit an oil depot inside Russia:

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/01/world/ukraine-russia-war/ukrainian-helicopters-strike-an-oil-depot-in-russia-an-official-there-says

[basilosaurus]

Apr 1, 2022 8:02:31 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

A Ukrainian airstrike has hit an oil depot inside Russia:

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/01/world/ukraine-russia-war/ukrainian-helicopters-strike-an-oil-depot-in-russia-an-official-there-says

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60952125

Ukraine hasn't claimed responsibility yet.

Russia, if you're gonna start a war, you probably should expect some losses. Also, if you're gonna do a war, this is how you do it without striking apartment buildings, schools, hospitals.

[cattledogkisses]

Russia is trying to demand that Wikipedia remove information about the war. 

www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-belgorod-mariupol-04-01-2022#russia-threatens-wikipedia-with-a-fine-if-it-doesnt-remove-its-page-about-the-war

[basilosaurus]

Apr 1, 2022 11:19:38 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Russia is trying to demand that Wikipedia remove information about the war. 

www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-belgorod-mariupol-04-01-2022#russia-threatens-wikipedia-with-a-fine-if-it-doesnt-remove-its-page-about-the-war

Someone needs to add an entry in Wikipedia that Putin's oppression of information leads to him not knowing the Barbra Streisand effect. LOFL that he thinks he can control internet content.

[icedcoffee]

Apr 1, 2022 11:19:38 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Russia is trying to demand that Wikipedia remove information about the war. 

www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-belgorod-mariupol-04-01-2022#russia-threatens-wikipedia-with-a-fine-if-it-doesnt-remove-its-page-about-the-war

Hey Russia---Remember when your mom warned you that anything you do might end up on the internet so watch your behavior?  Yeah.

[mbcdefg]

Ukraine says withdrawing Russian forces have killed hundreds of civilians

Warning, many of these reports contain very Graphic descriptions and images:

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-europe-evacuations-665fd06b92852547d7b27627b99509a6

[mrsukyankee]

If you want to feel real horror, google translate THIS ARTICLE which is in Russian state run news.

Here's a flavour:

Back in April last year, we wrote on the inevitability of denazification of Ukraine. We do not need a Nazi, Bandera-based Ukraine, an enemy of Russia and an instrument of the West to destroy Russia. Today, the issue of denazification has moved to the practical plane.

Denazification is necessary when a significant part of the people — most likely the majority — has been absorbed and drawn into politics by the Nazi regime. That is, when the hypothesis "the people are good – the government is bad" does not work. Recognition of this fact is the basis of the policy of denazification, all its activities, and the fact itself is its subject.
...Denazification is a set of measures against the Naziified mass of the population, which technically cannot be directly punished as war criminals.
...However, in addition to the top, a significant part of the popular mass, which are passive Nazis, accomplices of Nazism, is also guilty. They supported and indulged the Nazi government. A just punishment of this part of the population is possible only as a bearing the inevitable burdens of a just war against the Nazi system, conducted as carefully and cautiously as possible in relation to civilians. Further denazification of this mass of the population consists in re-education, which is achieved by ideological repression (suppression) of Nazi attitudes and strict censorship: not only in the political sphere, but necessarily also in the sphere of culture and education.

[underwaterrhymes]

What is happening is genocide. We need to be doing more.

[Bad Dingo]

I was listening to the CSpan call-in show last week and a lady called in (on the R line) and was spouting Russian propaganda about how they were only killing Nazis and were there to help Ukraine. It was very disturbing.

[underwaterrhymes]

Apr 4, 2022 10:26:54 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I was listening to the CSpan call-in show last week and a lady called in (on the R line) and was spouting Russian propaganda about how they were only killing Nazis and were there to help Ukraine. It was very disturbing.

Did they correct her?

[Bad Dingo]

Apr 4, 2022 10:36:11 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Apr 4, 2022 10:26:54 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I was listening to the CSpan call-in show last week and a lady called in (on the R line) and was spouting Russian propaganda about how they were only killing Nazis and were there to help Ukraine. It was very disturbing.

Did they correct her?

No, the style of the show is for the host to basically listen. It's infuriating.

[underwaterrhymes]

Apr 4, 2022 11:10:38 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Apr 4, 2022 10:36:11 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Did they correct her?

No, the style of the show is for the host to basically listen. It's infuriating.

That’s so irresponsible. These are people’s lives.