Thank you all for the reality check. I really struggle with ds because I do not have ADHD myself and I struggle to find the balance between pushing him to achieve to his intelligent ability and accommodating his struggles, and he definitely will indulge ANY slack that I cut him due to having ADHD because he doesn't seem to care at all about his grades even though he claims to want to go to college (he's almost 13 and going into 8th grade). I also struggle because I don't feel like I have a quite realistic grasp on IF his grades at this point actually matter, because I KNOW the grade themselves don't, but tracking due to the grades has started already and he has already lost opportunities for some classes etc. because of the track he's on due to his grades. But yeah, getting him to put effort into his school work is a big source of frustration for me, so my first instinct was not to celebrate that, but obviously that was off the mark. We will go out and celebrate the end of school.
I could have written every word of this. My son closed doors he didn’t even know existed by failing to give a single shit about classes that didn’t interest him. He went to an alternative high school designed for kids of differing learning styles, challenges, etc. It is almost impossible to fail at that school and my son failed a class nearly every semester, but he graduated, with us pulling him across the finish line. FRUSTRATING. AS. HELL.
But there are so many alternatives to college and so many alternative ways to college that he WILL find his way. Grades too shitty for University? Tech colleges accept almost everyone on an associates degree track; those credits transfer to a four-year college. It’s how I did it when my own grades in high school were crap: tech college for two years, transfer to uni, BA degree, law school.
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but even if he only wants to go to uni, there are so many ways to get him there. When he’s ready.
We generally celebrate making it to the end of the year with something like ice cream. We also recognize report cards equally. My SS has adhd and an iep. He has to work harder to get the same grades as his sister. We celebrate his hard work. If he is struggling (meaning D or F), we ask what’s going on, tweak his accommodations with his team, and I may have to remind him more about homework, but if he pulls off that C - that’s 100% celebration worthy.
SD has an easier time with school, but doesn’t particularly like it. But she gets praise as well as long as she’s passing. They both got around a 3.2 for the 2nd semester. We acknowledge both equally.
Post by sofamonkey on Jun 27, 2022 17:57:25 GMT -5
Is your son getting therapy for coping skills or on medication at all? If not, our pedi recommended therapy for skills as a great first step, even if they go on meds. If your son is on meds, it sounds like it’s time for a dosage check.
I know it is hard to understand something you don’t have. When you say he’ll take any out you give him, it’s probably because he’s really fucking overwhelmed. It’s not that he’s taking advantage of you, he needs the break.
Perhaps you all could benefit from a better understanding of his condition, and ways to navigate his life.
Damn. Telling your neurodivergent kid whose report card has mostly As but two Cs that his report card isn't worth celebrating is certainly a choice.
I am not a parent, but I also have ADHD and I am with your husband on this. Your daughter has all As but it seems like that comes pretty effortlessly for her. Your son has mostly As, but has to work probably twice as hard. They need different standards of measurement, because they are not the same. It is fine to celebrate your daughter's accomplishments - you should! She deserves that! But it definitely could have been handled with more grace and thoughtfulness, IMO.
My problem is that while there are times that ds does have to work harder than dd, he often isn't willing to. If he had shown any effort towards the end of the year to redo any of the assignments that were incomplete in social studies (that I reminded him about daily, offered to help with, offered to take him in early to get help from his teacher with, etc.) he would have easily brought his C in social studies up to a B and I would have celebrated that B just as loudly (if not more so) than all of dd's A's. I guess it all comes back down to my issue with not knowing how to deal with lack of motivation. I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who just didn't care and didn't want to put in any effort at all, and now I've got one of those kids. So rewarding one kid for having the motivation to put in the effort (because she really does) when the other doesn't was a misguided attempt to motivate him because I am still clueless on how to make him care.
Thank you all for the reality check. I really struggle with ds because I do not have ADHD myself and I struggle to find the balance between pushing him to achieve to his intelligent ability and accommodating his struggles, and he definitely will indulge ANY slack that I cut him due to having ADHD because he doesn't seem to care at all about his grades even though he claims to want to go to college (he's almost 13 and going into 8th grade). I also struggle because I don't feel like I have a quite realistic grasp on IF his grades at this point actually matter, because I KNOW the grade themselves don't, but tracking due to the grades has started already and he has already lost opportunities for some classes etc. because of the track he's on due to his grades. But yeah, getting him to put effort into his school work is a big source of frustration for me, so my first instinct was not to celebrate that, but obviously that was off the mark. We will go out and celebrate the end of school.
I could have written every word of this. My son closed doors he didn’t even know existed by failing to give a single shit about classes that didn’t interest him. He went to an alternative high school designed for kids of differing learning styles, challenges, etc. It is almost impossible to fail at that school and my son failed a class nearly every semester, but he graduated, with us pulling him across the finish line. FRUSTRATING. AS. HELL.
But there are so many alternatives to college and so many alternative ways to college that he WILL find his way. Grades too shitty for University? Tech colleges accept almost everyone on an associates degree track; those credits transfer to a four-year college. It’s how I did it when my own grades in high school were crap: tech college for two years, transfer to uni, BA degree, law school.
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but even if he only wants to go to uni, there are so many ways to get him there. When he’s ready.
No, I appreciate it. Dh and I have already had talks about how we've had to sort of temper our expectations for his future. He tells us he wants to go to college, but he doesn't seem to have any idea what that actually means and totally tunes us out when we try to talk to him about it, so we just try to take it one year at a time and see where he ends up.
Oh I should also say that my son did the tech college to uni route, too. He was taken aback by how much was expected from him at the college level but decided he really wanted it. He’s doing great, except that he just failed a class because he accidentally skipped the final. 🤦♀️
Damn. Telling your neurodivergent kid whose report card has mostly As but two Cs that his report card isn't worth celebrating is certainly a choice.
I am not a parent, but I also have ADHD and I am with your husband on this. Your daughter has all As but it seems like that comes pretty effortlessly for her. Your son has mostly As, but has to work probably twice as hard. They need different standards of measurement, because they are not the same. It is fine to celebrate your daughter's accomplishments - you should! She deserves that! But it definitely could have been handled with more grace and thoughtfulness, IMO.
My problem is that I don’t really understand my child’s condition, and I keep perpetuating ableism when I talk about his efforts and achievements.
I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who’s condition I didn’t understand was difficult for those kids then, just as it is for my son now.
You do not have to "temper expectations" for his future. Good lord.
I have ADHD and two learning abilities.
I don't think I ever got an A in junior high or high school, in ANYTHING. I got As in undergrad in my program of choice but also some Ds in math and foreign language; my undergraduate GPA netted out around a 2.8. Literally, no one in my life ever asked about it. I now have a 4.0 in grad school at a very rigorous university and have been a top performer in two very competitive professional careers.
My husband got into 8 Ivy League schools. His dad and sister went to Harvard. He went to Columbia. He also burned out his junior year, had a nervous breakdown and tried to ride his bike from New York to California. Let your kid find who he is. Nothing is set in stone at 13.
Damn. Telling your neurodivergent kid whose report card has mostly As but two Cs that his report card isn't worth celebrating is certainly a choice.
I am not a parent, but I also have ADHD and I am with your husband on this. Your daughter has all As but it seems like that comes pretty effortlessly for her. Your son has mostly As, but has to work probably twice as hard. They need different standards of measurement, because they are not the same. It is fine to celebrate your daughter's accomplishments - you should! She deserves that! But it definitely could have been handled with more grace and thoughtfulness, IMO.
My problem is that while there are times that ds does have to work harder than dd, he often isn't willing to. If he had shown any effort towards the end of the year to redo any of the assignments that were incomplete in social studies (that I reminded him about daily, offered to help with, offered to take him in early to get help from his teacher with, etc.) he would have easily brought his C in social studies up to a B and I would have celebrated that B just as loudly (if not more so) than all of dd's A's. I guess it all comes back down to my issue with not knowing how to deal with lack of motivation. I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who just didn't care and didn't want to put in any effort at all, and now I've got one of those kids. So rewarding one kid for having the motivation to put in the effort (because she really does) when the other doesn't was a misguided attempt to motivate him because I am still clueless on how to make him care.
is he receiving help (therapy, medication etc) for his ADHD? It may not be a lack of motivation - if he’s feeling he can’t do it maybe he’s pretending he doesn’t care. DS1 doesn’t have ADHD but he got some extra help/tutoring specifically for executive functioning issues when he was younger and it helped so much.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jun 27, 2022 18:20:13 GMT -5
Your son will be fine with his Cs. He will probably go to college with Cs. He may not go to an elite school, but so what? All this pressure on grades is unnecessary.
But if he doesn’t want it, so be it. He’s a teenager who is also neurodivergent, it may take him a while to figure it out.
Lead him there without judgement and you will be pleasantly surprised at how amazing he will be.
I'm also really sad for the relationship of resentment you're going to create between your kids if you continue this way. It goes beyond ruining your own relationship with your son. I hope you'll reconsider how you're approaching this. There is so much more to life than good grades in school.
Yep. I was the one who did well in school and my younger sister reacted to comparisons by almost completely checking out. Our relationship will forever be tainted by this dynamic. My sister is a very intelligent person but her strengths are not necessarily the kind that are celebrated in school and at the end of they day we are just different people. I don’t even think my parents highlighted the differences that much but she still got the message that she wasn’t as “smart” or “good” as me and it really affected her life trajectory. She is a fully functional, successful adult but I can still see how this perception of being “not smart” affects her choices.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Jun 27, 2022 18:21:23 GMT -5
Celebrating straight A's is questionable even if that's the only kind of student you have. I get that you are happy about it, as well you should be, but it creates a lot of pressure on the kid to keep achieving... pressure that they obviously don't need and can actually be harmful in the long run, as honestly nobody who challenges themselves to reach their full potential gets straight A's forever. Pretty not cool for the other student who isn't getting celebrated too, but I think you already understand that part.
It actually doesn't even matter what kind of achievers you have, you still want celebrate hard work and effort, not achievement. It's actually been shown to be a more effective motivator regardless of the level of achievement. Look up growth mindset if you don't believe me. Celebrate that they've come this far through the term, and find something positive to say to each of them about the *effort* you've seen them put forth recently. And make sure it's a real compliment, not a backhanded one.
I'm not trying to pile on but here is something else that might surprise you as your kids age that I've picked up from working in higher ed for more than a decade. Your kid who gets straight As might really struggle in college or afterward and your other child might shine.
Your younger child, hopefully, is building resiliency. When good grades and success come easily early on, you often find kids struggling to find themselves freshman or sophomore year when they built their personas and parent approval on "being smart" yet still start to fail in a more academically challenging environment. Don't do that to your "good kid."
Damn. Telling your neurodivergent kid whose report card has mostly As but two Cs that his report card isn't worth celebrating is certainly a choice.
I am not a parent, but I also have ADHD and I am with your husband on this. Your daughter has all As but it seems like that comes pretty effortlessly for her. Your son has mostly As, but has to work probably twice as hard. They need different standards of measurement, because they are not the same. It is fine to celebrate your daughter's accomplishments - you should! She deserves that! But it definitely could have been handled with more grace and thoughtfulness, IMO.
My problem is that while there are times that ds does have to work harder than dd, he often isn't willing to. If he had shown any effort towards the end of the year to redo any of the assignments that were incomplete in social studies (that I reminded him about daily, offered to help with, offered to take him in early to get help from his teacher with, etc.) he would have easily brought his C in social studies up to a B and I would have celebrated that B just as loudly (if not more so) than all of dd's A's. I guess it all comes back down to my issue with not knowing how to deal with lack of motivation. I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who just didn't care and didn't want to put in any effort at all, and now I've got one of those kids. So rewarding one kid for having the motivation to put in the effort (because she really does) when the other doesn't was a misguided attempt to motivate him because I am still clueless on how to make him care.
So I think this is the part of ADHD you aren't understanding. Literally every time your son does a school assignment, he has to work harder than your daughter. His "willingness" aside, it takes him significantly more energy to complete the same tasks as her. I can sit down at my computer to do my school work or work-work, and stare at it for hours. Hours. Because sometimes I absolutely cannot just... start doing my work and sit there and do it. Even as an adult, if I had to redo every single thing that I did, I think I would absolutely melt down. It is not a lack of motivation. As a teenager, I graduated high school with like a 2.2 GPA. I have a bachelors degree with a 3.8, a professional certification, and am working on a masters. I am a manager and I make what most would consider a lot of money. I promise your kid is going to be okay as long as you don't keep shitting on his efforts, which are going to look different than your daughters efforts. Occasionally getting a couple of Cs is not going to keep him from a bright future, or even from college.
My problem is that I don’t really understand my child’s condition, and I keep perpetuating ableism when I talk about his efforts and achievements.
I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who’s condition I didn’t understand was difficult for those kids then, just as it is for my son now.
There. I fixed that for you. :/
While I do appreciate this because it does hit home, most of the kids that I taught were (to my knowledge) neurotypical, so I'm not sure what condition I might not have understood if they just didn't care about failing English class.
My problem is that while there are times that ds does have to work harder than dd, he often isn't willing to. If he had shown any effort towards the end of the year to redo any of the assignments that were incomplete in social studies (that I reminded him about daily, offered to help with, offered to take him in early to get help from his teacher with, etc.) he would have easily brought his C in social studies up to a B and I would have celebrated that B just as loudly (if not more so) than all of dd's A's. I guess it all comes back down to my issue with not knowing how to deal with lack of motivation. I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who just didn't care and didn't want to put in any effort at all, and now I've got one of those kids. So rewarding one kid for having the motivation to put in the effort (because she really does) when the other doesn't was a misguided attempt to motivate him because I am still clueless on how to make him care.
is he receiving help (therapy, medication etc) for his ADHD? It may not be a lack of motivation - if he’s feeling he can’t do it maybe he’s pretending he doesn’t care. DS1 doesn’t have ADHD but he got some extra help/tutoring specifically for executive functioning issues when he was younger and it helped so much.
Yes, therapy and medication, and we often attend therapy together because obviously it is something we need to work on together :/
While I do appreciate this because it does hit home, most of the kids that I taught were (to my knowledge) neurotypical, so I'm not sure what condition I might not have understood if they just didn't care about failing English class.
I was not diagnosed until I was an adult even though I absolutely knew what was wrong with me as a kid because my younger brother also has ADHD and was diagnosed as a kid. Just because you don't know, doesn't mean they are neurotypical. You should step away from this thread, you are not doing yourself any favors the more you post.
Post by rupertpenny on Jun 27, 2022 18:34:49 GMT -5
I also feel compelled to mention I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and have definitely struggled with perfectionism. If I feel like my only choices are to be perfect or to not care it’s easy to pick not caring.
On the other hand I’m also faculty at a top 30 university which is the pinnacle of academic achievement in some ways. Once your S has a chance to really focus on what he loves and is good at he might surprise you.
My problem is that while there are times that ds does have to work harder than dd, he often isn't willing to. If he had shown any effort towards the end of the year to redo any of the assignments that were incomplete in social studies (that I reminded him about daily, offered to help with, offered to take him in early to get help from his teacher with, etc.) he would have easily brought his C in social studies up to a B and I would have celebrated that B just as loudly (if not more so) than all of dd's A's. I guess it all comes back down to my issue with not knowing how to deal with lack of motivation. I struggled with this as a teacher when I taught full time too. I really didn't know how to reach the kids who just didn't care and didn't want to put in any effort at all, and now I've got one of those kids. So rewarding one kid for having the motivation to put in the effort (because she really does) when the other doesn't was a misguided attempt to motivate him because I am still clueless on how to make him care.
So I think this is the part of ADHD you aren't understanding. Literally every time your son does a school assignment, he has to work harder than your daughter. His "willingness" aside, it takes him significantly more energy to complete the same tasks as her. I can sit down at my computer to do my school work or work-work, and stare at it for hours. Hours. Because sometimes I absolutely cannot just... start doing my work and sit there and do it. Even as an adult, if I had to redo every single thing that I did, I think I would absolutely melt down. It is not a lack of motivation. As a teenager, I graduated high school with like a 2.2 GPA. I have a bachelors degree with a 3.8, a professional certification, and am working on a masters. I am a manager and I make what most would consider a lot of money. I promise your kid is going to be okay as long as you don't keep shitting on his efforts, which are going to look different than your daughters efforts. Occasionally getting a couple of Cs is not going to keep him from a bright future, or even from college.
Thank you, this is helpful. This is definitely something I need to do some more reflecting on.
Post by maudefindlay on Jun 27, 2022 18:39:26 GMT -5
I don't think his report card is bad. I mean he is taking a foreign language even. Please take both kids for ice cream and also have a talk with him where you talk up all the ways he kicked ass.
I don’t see how these are bad grades at all. It looks like he’s juggling 10 classes. Is speech considered an academic class? Is it an elective? A C in 7th grade social studies is not that big of a deal.
His math and science grades are great. He can focus on that if he wants to in the future. Social studies can be really writing and reading heavy and especially if that isn’t his strength can be a lot on top of Language Arts.
I would not worry about his future, these are overall great grades. I would be way more worried about him burning out or digging his heels in and not putting any effort in if this is the reaction to him getting six As.
Post by minniemouse on Jun 27, 2022 18:42:00 GMT -5
Wow. Just wow. We celebrate the end of school/report cards for both kids. Older kid had straight As. She is self-motivated snd studied hard for them. We praised her for hard work. The younger one doesn’t get letter grades. she had mostly satisfactory progress or very good progress, but was below grade level for reading. She has worked so hard this year and was very close to getting “at grade level”. We focused on the comments the teacher wrote about her working hard, being a good friend to her classmates, and her positive attitude. They both got the same treatment - congratulations, high fives, and ice cream to celebrate.
While I do appreciate this because it does hit home, most of the kids that I taught were (to my knowledge) neurotypical, so I'm not sure what condition I might not have understood if they just didn't care about failing English class.
I’m saying this with more kindness than I really have to spare, please stop digging in.
You just don’t understand, and that’s ok. But continuing to talk about this issue or kids in general, it’s really hurtful and damaging. Also, I’d encourage you to speak with the counselor for some resources so you can better understand your son. The way you’re going, i.e. how you handle things and talk about them, is unideal at best, but likely hurtful and damaging to your son (as well as other people that hear you speak).
Motivation is a really hard thing when you have ADHD. I would say I am motivated to do a lot of things, but when it comes down to actually doing them, that motivation often does not actually drive my actions. It's not that I don't care, it's that I literally cannot get started on things or sustain focus long enough to complete them. If I spent a fraction of the time doing things that I spend thinking about doing them or feeling guilty for not doing them, I would be the most productive person ever!
I don't really have advice on what to do about that (I've never solved the problem for myself!) but hope that helps you understand what might be going on here.
Oof. From a parent perspective, my son just finished 3rd grade and has ADHD and it's hard for him. Not sure if its relevant but he does really well in most subjects but they had one social studies test all year, the only thing they got a number grade at the top and he got a 63. Halfway through the test he crumpled it up and put it on the teachers desk. She said they had reviewed the material for days, he should have been able to answer the questions but I think he finds it boring and tedious where as math he is solving a problem and getting it right at the end is like a little reward.
From a kid perspective I got straight As without having to work very hard and was always on honor roll. My brother and I were in the same grade, he was held back in kindergarten. He struggled and got Bs and Cs, I often helped him with his homework and he needed help from my mom too whereas I never did. I don't remember any kind of celebrations about report cards, it was fine. I don't remember it being a big deal at all, I got those As for myself because that's just how I am. I never resented him or got mad at my parents for not making a fuss it was just a normal day when report cards came out.
Is your son getting therapy for coping skills or on medication at all? If not, our pedi recommended therapy for skills as a great first step, even if they go on meds. If your son is on meds, it sounds like it’s time for a dosage check.
I know it is hard to understand something you don’t have. When you say he’ll take any out you give him, it’s probably because he’s really fucking overwhelmed. It’s not that he’s taking advantage of you, he needs the break.
Perhaps you all could benefit from a better understanding of his condition, and ways to navigate his life.
100%. This poor kid was probably extremely overwhelmed with school end activities and added pressure to measure up to your standards. I highly doubt it’s that he doesn’t care about his grades and more than him mental and emotional bandwidth was being spent to its limit elsewhere. It’s hard work just getting through the day doing life maintenance tasks having ADHD let alone trying to live up to other people’s uneducated expectations. Damn.
While I do appreciate this because it does hit home, most of the kids that I taught were (to my knowledge) neurotypical, so I'm not sure what condition I might not have understood if they just didn't care about failing English class.
ML lurker, but I couldn't sit this one out.
First, you might find this video helpful when it comes to ADHD and motivation. This video was a big lightbulb moment for me: youtu.be/OM0Xv0eVGtY
While you're at it, I highly recommend spending some time going though her other videos. They are excellent.
Regarding the comment above - just because your former students (including those with straight As) appear neurotypical, that doesn't mean they are. Adding to the anecdotes - I was my high school valedictorian and a straight A student all through high school, college, two masters, and a PhD. I have a PhD in planetary geology and work on NASA stuff. I have ADHD and wasn't diagnosed until AFTER all of that. And I was only diagnosed because my H has ADHD and I was trying to learn more about it. It was actually that motivation video (link above) that made me realize I had all the typical signs of inattentive ADHD. And no one had ever even considered it.
Please never assume someone's neurotypical/neurodivergent status.
Also, there's no need to "temper your expectations" for your ds because of ADHD. It's about finding systems that work well for him so he can use his strengths and figure out ways to get over his walls (another great How to ADHD video: youtu.be/Uo08uS904Rg, and part 2: youtu.be/hlObsAeFNVk). ADHD brains are capable of AMAZING things. But we have the added challenge of figuring out how to work with our brains as they are, instead of trying to force them to fit into a world that unfortunately is made for neurotypical brains. But that doesn't mean we can't do it. However, it takes a LOT of self awareness. (Medication and a good therapist can do wonders too!)
I really encourage you to spend some time learning more about ADHD and working on finding language that you can use when talking with your ds that will actually be constructive. What you said was flat out hurtful and it absolutely will stick with him.
I had a long response and I deleted, so. I don't have ADHD (that I know of, I tick a lot of the boxes but have never been diagnosed). I was your son. I didn't like school and homework and I wasn't "motivated". My brother did every assignment the day it was assigned and got straight As. I don't think he ever got a B. I felt like "less than" just from that, no input or favoritism from our parents needed. I have complex feelings about this and will probably circle back to this thread when I can articulate them.