@ Roe fallout thread (July?)

[Jalapeñomel]

Jul 18, 2022 11:21:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 18, 2022 10:24:02 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Someone I used to really respect shared that she was ok with the overturning because of women who use abortion as birth control. I was/am aghast and trying to figure out how to move forward.

Ugh, that’s so maddening. Abortion is birth control, and that’s ok!

Louder for the cheap seats

[wanderingback]

Jul 18, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -5 sent said:

Jul 18, 2022 10:24:02 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Someone I used to really respect shared that she was ok with the overturning because of women who use abortion as birth control. I was/am aghast and trying to figure out how to move forward.

I'm truly convinced as an adult that even God doesn't care as long as you (as in your friend) aren't the one using abortion as birth control. 

.

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

[TR]

Jul 18, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -5 sent said:

Jul 18, 2022 10:24:02 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Someone I used to really respect shared that she was ok with the overturning because of women who use abortion as birth control. I was/am aghast and trying to figure out how to move forward.

I took a class in college called "Reproductive Biopsychology." It was so interesting. I remember learning this fact. I also remember thinking "ok, moving on." Like why spend so much energy caring? I'm truly convinced as an adult that even God doesn't care as long as you (as in your friend) aren't the one using abortion as birth control. 

I also think if we don't get the racists to shut up and sit down, then we are headed to a civil war in my lifetime so I might be wrong about everything. Who knows.

What fact?

[sent]

Jul 18, 2022 11:40:40 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -5 sent said:

I'm truly convinced as an adult that even God doesn't care as long as you (as in your friend) aren't the one using abortion as birth control. 

.

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

I read gretchenindiguise's post and felt this person she respected is trying to impose the view that abortion should not be used as birth control on others. She didn't mention religion, those are my internal views in my post. I'm not out there trying to impose them on anyone else. It's the sense of hopelessness that I feel from many angles (religion, society, as an American) when I read about this subject and all the mixing of religion and word mincing and what I feel should be a medical procedure between the patient and the doctor.

[sent]

Jul 18, 2022 11:51:40 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -5 sent said:

I took a class in college called "Reproductive Biopsychology." It was so interesting. I remember learning this fact. I also remember thinking "ok, moving on." Like why spend so much energy caring? I'm truly convinced as an adult that even God doesn't care as long as you (as in your friend) aren't the one using abortion as birth control. 

I also think if we don't get the racists to shut up and sit down, then we are headed to a civil war in my lifetime so I might be wrong about everything. Who knows.

What fact?

That women use abortion as a form of birth control. 

[TR]

Jul 18, 2022 11:57:11 GMT -5 sent said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:51:40 GMT -5 TR said:

What fact?

That women use abortion as a form of birth control. 

That's not a fact. That's a GOP talking point.

ETA: I mean, yes, abortion is birth control, but the trope of a loose woman who just runs around willy nilly having unprotected sex and just jaunts off to PP to get an abortion every time she gets pregnant is just...well, it's a trope.

[wanderingback]

Jul 18, 2022 11:59:53 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:57:11 GMT -5 sent said:

That women use abortion as a form of birth control. 

That's not a fact. That's a GOP talking point.

ETA: I mean, yes, abortion is birth control, but the trope of a loose woman who just runs around willy nilly having unprotected sex and just jaunts off to PP to get an abortion every time she gets pregnant is just...well, it's a trope.

Ok I think people need to take a step back and stop using stigmatizing language.
People have sex "willy nilly" and people have multiple abortions and that is OK. There is nothing wrong with multiple abortions, it doesn’t affect your health.
What’s harmful is when people read these things and then feel shame for their decisions when they didn’t do anything wrong.

I remember a few years ago someone also said "no one decides willy nilly to have an abortion at 20 weeks." I had to correct that stigmatizing language as well.

ETA: people should check out the website 2plusabortions.com it has wonderful stories and discusses why we should destigmatize people having multiple abortions.

[TR]

Jul 18, 2022 12:09:25 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:59:53 GMT -5 TR said:

That's not a fact. That's a GOP talking point.

ETA: I mean, yes, abortion is birth control, but the trope of a loose woman who just runs around willy nilly having unprotected sex and just jaunts off to PP to get an abortion every time she gets pregnant is just...well, it's a trope.

Ok I think people need to take a step back and stop using stigmatizing language.
People have sex "willy nilly" and people have multiple abortions and that is OK. There is nothing wrong with multiple abortions, it doesn’t affect your health.
What’s harmful is when people read these things and then feel shame for their decisions when they didn’t do anything wrong.

I remember a few years ago someone also said "no one decides willy nilly to have an abortion at 20 weeks." I had to correct that stigmatizing language as well.

Sorry, yes, I was trying to say that's what they think, but it's not a thing, like, it's not bad even if it were, but I'm not expressing myself well and I'm sorry. I think abortions should be available whenever, wherever, for any reason.

[sent]

Jul 18, 2022 11:59:53 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:57:11 GMT -5 sent said:

That women use abortion as a form of birth control. 

That's not a fact. That's a GOP talking point.

ETA: I mean, yes, abortion is birth control, but the trope of a loose woman who just runs around willy nilly having unprotected sex and just jaunts off to PP to get an abortion every time she gets pregnant is just...well, it's a trope.

That's why I loved that class, it was all facts.
The topic was birth control. Here is a list of 7 kinds of birth control - pills, condoms, tracking temperatures, etc. Abortion was one of the things on the list.
We didn't go into the politics of why someone would have chosen to select abortion as birth control, just that when it was selected and the procedure resulted in the woman no longer being pregnant, it fell under the category of a form of birth control. 

I don't remember if there were exactly 7 things on the list, it's been 20 something years since college. I just remember very clearly having an a-ha moment that a woman could choose to utilize abortion as birth control.

ETA - I went to a Jesuit college so the professor could have chosen to make it political but he didn't. He and his wife, also a professor, were super cool and forward thinking and the kind of people we wanted to educate our future leaders. And the department didn't give him crap for teaching this kind of stuff because he was a very popular professor and taught many classes with wait lists. 

[dirtyred]

Jul 18, 2022 11:40:40 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -5 sent said:

I'm truly convinced as an adult that even God doesn't care as long as you (as in your friend) aren't the one using abortion as birth control. 

.

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

When these people talk about using abortion as birth control, they think there are women that have 7, 8, 9 abortions because abortion *is* their method of birth control. Because it's so easy and cheap to get an abortion.

[TR]

Jul 18, 2022 12:17:34 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:40:40 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

When these people talk about using abortion as birth control, they think there are women that have 7, 8, 9 abortions because abortion *is* their method of birth control. Because it's so easy and cheap to get an abortion.

But the point is that's ok.

[wanderingback]

Jul 18, 2022 12:17:34 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:40:40 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

When these people talk about using abortion as birth control, they think there are women that have 7, 8, 9 abortions because abortion *is* their method of birth control. Because it's so easy and cheap to get an abortion.

Yes I understand.
And what I’m saying is that yes some people have that many abortions.
Life is complicated. Where I live it is somewhat "easy" to get an abortion and insurance covers it.
Maybe people don’t like hearing the truth? But it does nothing to help with the stigmatization of abortion by saying no one uses abortion as birth control because that is false.
Then, people who share stories with me about those multiple abortions internalize all this negativity.

When I talk to people about if they’re interested in pregnancy or being a parent I always include that I’m here and available to support them if they get pregnant and no longer want to be. Many of my colleagues do the same. So we do indeed include abortion as an option for birth control and some people choose that option, more than once.

[sent]

Jul 18, 2022 12:17:34 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Jul 18, 2022 11:40:40 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yikes.
I admit I’m not religious.
But I don’t think we should be using such stigmatizing language such as god doesn’t care as long as one isn’t using abortion as birth control.
A lot of religious people get abortions and use abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control.

When these people talk about using abortion as birth control, they think there are women that have 7, 8, 9 abortions because abortion *is* their method of birth control. Because it's so easy and cheap to get an abortion.

Maybe it is. So what? That's between the woman and her doctor.

I feel hopeless that politicians think this choice needs to be policed. 

[sofamonkey]

It looks like the house passed the Women’s Health Protection Act, the first steps to codify abortion. Yay!!

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Jul 18, 2022 12:23:03 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 18, 2022 12:17:34 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

When these people talk about using abortion as birth control, they think there are women that have 7, 8, 9 abortions because abortion *is* their method of birth control. Because it's so easy and cheap to get an abortion.

Yes I understand.
And what I’m saying is that yes some people have that many abortions.
Life is complicated. Where I live it is somewhat "easy" to get an abortion and insurance covers it.
Maybe people don’t like hearing the truth? But it does nothing to help with the stigmatization of abortion by saying no one uses abortion as birth control because that is false.
Then, people who share stories with me about those multiple abortions internalize all this negativity.

When I talk to people about if they’re interested in pregnancy or being a parent I always include that I’m here and available to support them if they get pregnant and no longer want to be. Many of my colleagues do the same. So we do indeed include abortion as an option for birth control and some people choose that option, more than once.

I swear, shitty messaging from the Democrats may very well give me the rage stroke that kills me one of these days, but the "safe, legal, and rare" talking point really did a number on people.  It's no one's business how a person with the ability to become pregnant chooses to prevent pregnancy, whether it's someone's 7th abortion or someone's 1 millionth condom. All "rare" does is set up some arbitrary system with good abortions and bad abortions, and we're back to abortions for me but not for thee again. Fuck. that.  Abortion is healthcare, and it should be accessible to anyone who needs or wants one.

[sent]

Jul 18, 2022 20:11:21 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

It looks like the house passed the Women’s Health Protection Act, the first steps to codify abortion. Yay!!

Can someone please explain to me how this helps fix this mess created by the Supreme Court?

[TR]

Jul 19, 2022 13:31:40 GMT -5 sent said:

Jul 18, 2022 20:11:21 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

It looks like the house passed the Women’s Health Protection Act, the first steps to codify abortion. Yay!!

Can someone please explain to me how this helps fix this mess created by the Supreme Court?

The most important reason it doesn't is because it won't pass the Senate.

[sequins]

Jul 19, 2022 13:41:21 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 19, 2022 13:31:40 GMT -5 sent said:

Can someone please explain to me how this helps fix this mess created by the Supreme Court?

The most important reason it doesn't is because it won't pass the Senate.

*unless we gain some senate seats in November.

[wanderingback]

Jul 19, 2022 9:01:56 GMT -5 5kcandlesinthewind said:

Jul 18, 2022 12:23:03 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I understand.
And what I’m saying is that yes some people have that many abortions.
Life is complicated. Where I live it is somewhat "easy" to get an abortion and insurance covers it.
Maybe people don’t like hearing the truth? But it does nothing to help with the stigmatization of abortion by saying no one uses abortion as birth control because that is false.
Then, people who share stories with me about those multiple abortions internalize all this negativity.

When I talk to people about if they’re interested in pregnancy or being a parent I always include that I’m here and available to support them if they get pregnant and no longer want to be. Many of my colleagues do the same. So we do indeed include abortion as an option for birth control and some people choose that option, more than once.

I swear, shitty messaging from the Democrats may very well give me the rage stroke that kills me one of these days, but the "safe, legal, and rare" talking point really did a number on people.  It's no one's business how a person with the ability to become pregnant chooses to prevent pregnancy, whether it's someone's 7th abortion or someone's 1 millionth condom. All "rare" does is set up some arbitrary system with good abortions and bad abortions, and we're back to abortions for me but not for thee again. Fuck. that.  Abortion is healthcare, and it should be accessible to anyone who needs or wants one.

Yes that slogan was horrible. So cringe worthy and problematic. Grassroots organizations gave their opinions about it, but they didn't take their advice :/ 

[biscoffcookies]

Jul 18, 2022 8:14:29 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

Jul 17, 2022 14:37:48 GMT -5 TR said:

They don’t actually care about the fetuses/babies/unborn. It’s about punishing women. Full stop.

This. Legit full stop. Republicans and their evangelical zealots have this misguided notion that it's the "slutting it up immoral hags" who are/will be in need of abortion services. And if abortion is illegal in all cases in all places, then these "slutting it up immoral hags" will "think twice" about their behavior and somehow find God, purity, the errors of their ways, and/or whatever the fuck else. This is why sooooooo many of these legislatures are pursuing no exceptions (and eventually, will come for all forms of contraception). Because if they allow exceptions, then they have to admit that it isn't just "slutting it up immoral hags" who are in need of abortion services. And that doesn't fit their narrative. 
. 

Along these lines, other pro-life advocates are now out there trying to change the definition of abortion to exclude really sympathetic cases. Specifically, in the context of a raped 10 year old girl, some assert “that’s not an abortion.” What they are really saying of course is “that’s not the TYPE of abortion I think should be regulated because the 10 year old is a victim, not a slutty immoral hag, and/or I recognize that including that in the scope of what should be regulated makes me look bad and could hurt my position against regulating the immoral hags so I better do damage control.”

[jlt19]

Jul 15, 2022 9:20:53 GMT -5 wildrice said:

I just was watching a TikTok that pointed out that in many states (this was about MO specifically), you cannot get divorced when you are pregnant. So we are going to force women to stay pregnant and make it impossible for them to get away from their abusive or otherwise shitty husbands for 9 months too.

As someone who got an abortion while in the process of divorcing an abusive asshole husband, this made my blood run cold. I was pretty set on divorcing him at that point, but if I had been forced to stay with him through the year who knows what would have happened - perhaps he would have convinced me to give it another shot. That would have been 1000% the wrong path for me. And I don't even think my life was in danger. What about women who may not survive staying married?

Something I learned today about this as well, is you cannot get divorced even if you’re pregnant with someone else’s child. Like, I was told this by by someone who was getting divorced, dating, got pregnant, couldn’t get divorced, had the baby and ended up staying with her husband. I guess it’s been 6 years and it’s fine, but still.

I also know first hand that when my BIL was trying to divorce my sister and got another woman pregnant, the only “law” that made him stop the divorce was the child support one. And that’s just because he didn’t want to pay two different women.

To be fair to the conversation, I have no idea if abortion was on the table for either woman, but the glaring punishment of women is pretty obvious in MO.

[erbear]

I attended a fundraiser for Turn PA Blue tonight with a lawyer who argued Casey, a state representative and a woman running for state rep. The woman who hosted it talked about her experience getting an abortion two weeks ago in PA — I had no idea how restrictive even a state where abortion is (for now…) legal is.

What do you all think the best way to get involved is? I don’t have tons of money to donate (all three said direct donations to clinics was the best) but I do have time.

[wanderingback]

Jul 19, 2022 20:14:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

I attended a fundraiser for Turn PA Blue tonight with a lawyer who argued Casey, a state representative and a woman running for state rep. The woman who hosted it talked about her experience getting an abortion two weeks ago in PA — I had no idea how restrictive even a state where abortion is (for now…) legal is.

What do you all think the best way to get involved is? I don’t have tons of money to donate (all three said direct donations to clinics was the best) but I do have time.

Yep PA has a bunch of TRAP laws that make access atrocious.
That’s pretty much why reproductive Justice movement was founded in the 90s because the pro choice movement was failing in saying that just because abortion was legal doesn’t mean it’s accessible. Access has been shitty for a very long time.

Anyway, I made a sticky thread that’s still at the top of this board. It has websites and you can see what different places might need/want and how to get involved. And not just in the original post but if you scroll down I posted again about a few other actionable items. Operation save abortion was this past weekend and it had a lot of good info and the whole thing is available on YouTube now too.
www.aafront.org/operation-save-abortion/

[erbear]

Jul 19, 2022 20:23:37 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jul 19, 2022 20:14:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

I attended a fundraiser for Turn PA Blue tonight with a lawyer who argued Casey, a state representative and a woman running for state rep. The woman who hosted it talked about her experience getting an abortion two weeks ago in PA — I had no idea how restrictive even a state where abortion is (for now…) legal is.

What do you all think the best way to get involved is? I don’t have tons of money to donate (all three said direct donations to clinics was the best) but I do have time.

Yep PA has a bunch of TRAP laws that make access atrocious.
That’s pretty much why reproductive Justice movement was founded in the 90s because the pro choice movement was failing in saying that just because abortion was legal doesn’t mean it’s accessible. Access has been shitty for a very long time.

Anyway, I made a sticky thread that’s still at the top of this board. It has websites and you can see what different places might need/want and how to get involved. And not just in the original post but if you scroll down I posted again about a few other actionable items. Operation save abortion was this past weekend and it had a lot of good info and the whole thing is available on YouTube now too.
www.aafront.org/operation-save-abortion/

Not sure how I missed that before. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it all out. I’ll put in some time tomorrow with your links.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jul 19, 2022 19:20:23 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Jul 15, 2022 9:20:53 GMT -5 wildrice said:

I just was watching a TikTok that pointed out that in many states (this was about MO specifically), you cannot get divorced when you are pregnant. So we are going to force women to stay pregnant and make it impossible for them to get away from their abusive or otherwise shitty husbands for 9 months too.

As someone who got an abortion while in the process of divorcing an abusive asshole husband, this made my blood run cold. I was pretty set on divorcing him at that point, but if I had been forced to stay with him through the year who knows what would have happened - perhaps he would have convinced me to give it another shot. That would have been 1000% the wrong path for me. And I don't even think my life was in danger. What about women who may not survive staying married?

Something I learned today about this as well, is you cannot get divorced even if you’re pregnant with someone else’s child. Like, I was told this by by someone who was getting divorced, dating, got pregnant, couldn’t get divorced, had the baby and ended up staying with her husband. I guess it’s been 6 years and it’s fine, but still.

I also know first hand that when my BIL was trying to divorce my sister and got another woman pregnant, the only “law” that made him stop the divorce was the child support one. And that’s just because he didn’t want to pay two different women.

To be fair to the conversation, I have no idea if abortion was on the table for either woman, but the glaring punishment of women is pretty obvious in MO.

This is because in most states, when a married woman (who is married to a man) gives birth, her husband is legally considered the baby's father for purposes of things like rights and responsibilities So, if the husband isn't actually the father, that typically has to be proven (even if both parties agree) and most judges aren't willing to order paternity tests while the kid is in utero. Then once paternity is disproven, then those rights and responsibilities aren't there anymore.

To be clear, I don't agree with state laws that don't allow a pregnant woman to get a divorce but when I was practicing, I handled a couple divorces where the wife was pregnant and even though my state allows divorce during pregnancy, the extra steps required for it were an absolute pain in the ass (for me and probably the court - I doubt it affected the pregnant woman that much).

[pixy0stix]

17 House members were arrested yesterday - www.axios.com/2022/07/19/aoc-democrats-arrested-roe-abortion

[erbear]

Jul 20, 2022 19:33:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

17 House members were arrested yesterday - www.axios.com/2022/07/19/aoc-democrats-arrested-roe-abortion

The Rep who comes and speaks to my class was one of them. Can’t wait to have her this year!

[sonrisa]

Jul 20, 2022 19:33:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

17 House members were arrested yesterday - www.axios.com/2022/07/19/aoc-democrats-arrested-roe-abortion

I write barbara Lee every year to say that even though she isnt technically my representative anymore, She still speaks for me. Time for another one.

[formerlyak]

I was just reading about a protest at a local school board meeting because the board wanted to open a Planned Parenthood Wellness Center on their high school campus. From the article, I learned that there are already many of these in other LA County high schools. It sounds like there are basic sexual health services and wellness counseling, as well as parent education programs. They say their goal is to open at more LA County schools. I think it’s a really cool program. Then I realized how this would never be available to kids in certain states or areas and their options are just become less and less available. And the comments killed me. So many comments on the article about “thank goodness those protesters won’t let teens kill babies and be murderers before they graduate.” The campus wellness centers don’t perform abortions, though they will refer out if needed. People suck.

www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/planned-parenthood-los-angeles-announces-landmark-program-and-partnership-of-high-school-based-wellbeing-centers-across-l-a-county

[mskitkat]

GA’s heartbeat bill went into immediate effect yesterday. Women were turned away in the waiting room. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/20/georgia-abortion-ban-ruling/