@ Roe fallout thread (July?)

[NewOrleans]

Felt like at this juncture with the new battles unfolding, I’d start a new thread. Feel free to take any new developments from the other thread and put them in here.  

TW rape case 

Columbus man has been charged with impregnating a 10-year-old Ohio girl, whose travel to Indiana to seek an abortion led to international attention following the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v Wade and activation of Ohio's abortion law.

Gerson Fuentes, 27, whose last known address was an apartment on Columbus' Northwest Side, was arrested Tuesday after police say he confessed to raping the child on at least two occasions. He's since been charged with rape, a felony of the first degree in Ohio.  

Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost questioned the validity of the account during an appearance on Fox News this week.

Yost, a Republican, told Fox News host Jesse Watters that his office had not heard "a whisper" of a report being filed for the 10-year-old victim.

Yost doubled down on that in an interview with the USA TODAY Network Ohio bureau on Tuesday, saying that the more time passed before confirmation made it "more likely that this is a fabrication."  🤮

www.dispatch.com/story/news/2022/07/13/columbus-man-charged-rape-10-year-old-led-abortion-in-indiana/10046625002/

[NewOrleans]

Senior Biden administration officials announced Wednesday that they are reminding tens of thousands of pharmacies around the country that they risk violating civil rights laws if they refuse to fill orders for contraception or abortion medication or discriminate based on a person’s pregnancy status.

“Under federal civil rights law, pregnancy discrimination includes discrimination based on current pregnancy, past pregnancy, potential or intended pregnancy, and medical conditions related to pregnancy or childbirth,” reads new guidance, which the Department of Health and Human Services is sending to more than 60,000 retail pharmacies this week.


www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/biden-pharmacies-contraception-abortion-pill-00045582

[NewOrleans]

TW back to rape case

First, this article is full of all the conservative shitpigs having to walk back their filthy claims it’s not true. Including the fkn WSJ! However, let’s see if they will continue to say it’s false, as the rapist appears to be undocumented (per first article I posted above).  Which will weigh out— their misogyny or their racism? 

Next, Indiana’s Republican attorney general said on Wednesday that his office planned to investigate the Indiana doctor who helped a 10-year-old rape victim who crossed state lines to have an abortion.

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her licensure if she failed to report. And in Indiana it’s a crime … to intentionally not report,” state Attorney General Todd Rokita said on Fox News on Wednesday night. “This is a child, and there’s a strong public interest in understanding if someone under the age of 16 or under the age of 18 or really any woman is having abortion in our state. And then if a child is being sexually abused, of course parents need to know. Authorities need to know. Public policy experts need to know.”

www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/07/13/republican-ag-says-hell-investigate-indiana-doctor-who-provided-care-to-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764

Rokita said his office would look at her medical license and whether any procedure was properly reported. Abortion itself remains legal in Indiana until around 20 weeks under state law.

On Fox, Rokita attacked Bernard as an "abortion activist acting as a doctor" who he suspected of having failed to report the child's abuse to authorities.

sports.yahoo.com/indiana-ag-says-investigating-doctor-112152250.html

Fox even aired her photo because they are trying to get her killed.

[fernweh]

If abortion is legal in Indiana what is the Attorney General investigating? The fact that she may or may not have reported the sexual abuse of a child? Considering this story has made (inter)national headlines and someone has been charged with the crime… it’s obvious it was reported by someone, I assuming a parent.
Would the doctor have an obligation to report beyond that?

[NewOrleans]

Jul 14, 2022 9:50:58 GMT -5 fernweh said:

If abortion is legal in Indiana what is the Attorney General investigating? The fact that she may or may not have reported the sexual abuse of a child? Considering this story has made (inter)national headlines and someone has been charged with the crime… it’s obvious it was reported by someone, I assuming a parent.
Would the doctor have an obligation to report beyond that?

Yes they are mandated reporters.

Beyond that, I am not sure… as I recall, a doctor in OH called her about the case in need of her services.  So I’m not sure if only the doctor in OHis the mandated reporter or both.

[5kcandlesinthewind]

The whole situation makes me so angry. A pregnant 10 year old is all the evidence you need of rape, but apparently, we also need to retraumatize her and her family just for clickbait. And now they're trying to get this doctor killed on top of it all. There is no bottom for these people.

[wanderingback]

Ugh, this is all so sad and a mess.
These kind of cases have unfortunately been happening for a very long time and it’s tragic that now this family and medical doctors are now in the spotlight. Abortion care needs to be accessible for everyone and we don’t need to show these "extreme" cases that re-traumatize those involved.

[NewOrleans]

Texas is literally suing to let pregnant people die. They are suing to to make sure EMTALA can’t include abortion, or argue that EMTALA must consider the fetus, or both.


Texas is suing the Biden administration over its recent guidance reminding hospitals and physicians that federal law requires them to provide abortions if there is a medical emergency and the health or life of the patient is at risk.

The lawsuit was filed just days after the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued guidance reaffirming that the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) protects providers when offering legally mandated, life- or health-saving abortion services in emergency situations.

Under the EMTALA law, if an emergency medical condition is found to exist, the hospital must provide available stabilizing treatment or an appropriate transfer to another hospital that has the capabilities to provide stabilizing treatment. HHS said abortion care qualifies as stabilizing care.

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3559610-texas-sues-biden-administration-over-hospital-abortion-guidance/amp/

[ECB]

Jul 14, 2022 13:16:46 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Texas is literally suing to let pregnant people die. They are suing to to make sure EMTALA can’t include abortion, or argue that EMTALA must consider the fetus, or both.


Texas is suing the Biden administration over its recent guidance reminding hospitals and physicians that federal law requires them to provide abortions if there is a medical emergency and the health or life of the patient is at risk.

The lawsuit was filed just days after the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued guidance reaffirming that the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) protects providers when offering legally mandated, life- or health-saving abortion services in emergency situations.

Under the EMTALA law, if an emergency medical condition is found to exist, the hospital must provide available stabilizing treatment or an appropriate transfer to another hospital that has the capabilities to provide stabilizing treatment. HHS said abortion care qualifies as stabilizing care.

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3559610-texas-sues-biden-administration-over-hospital-abortion-guidance/amp/

this just popped up on my feed too. They say that this “turns emergency rooms into abortion clinics”. These assholes.

[fortnightlily]

Meanwhile now these evil clowns are trying to redefine what does or doesn't constitute an 'abortion' to make their laws look not so blatantly cruel.

"Americans United for Life CEO Catherine Foster says 10-year-old Ohio rape victim ending her pregnancy is “not an abortion.” "

Video of the exchange with Rep. Eric Swalwell:

[fernweh]

Jim Bopp the Right to Life general council about the 10 year old who crossed state lines to have an abortion


“She would have had the baby, and as many women who have had babies as a result of rape, we would hope that she would understand the reason and ultimately the benefit of having the child,” Bopp said in a phone interview on Thursday.


1. She’s 10 - no she isn’t going to understand “the reason and benefits” of her having a baby. She is a baby and is already traumatized

2. She’s 10 - could she even give birth without it killing her? It doesn’t seem like 10 year old bodies would be able to handle that.

Republicans are such shit pigs. Every article I read makes me angrier and angrier.

[wawa]

Jul 14, 2022 13:37:51 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Meanwhile now these evil clowns are trying to redefine what does or doesn't constitute an 'abortion' to make their laws look not so blatantly cruel.
....

I see this a lot.  And not just now, it's been a tactic for a looooooong time that works really really well to frame this conversation around this mythical woman who runs around slutting it up, gets pregnant, probably sits around drinking  while deciding she doesn't want a stinky ole baby and trots off for her abortion three times a year. 

And people who aren't like...actively, consciously, cruel evil assholes EAT.IT.UP.  They picture this "immoral" person "killing her unborn babies", and then when prochoice advocates bring up all the other real life people who are losing legal control over their own bodies they can't get past that picture and lie to themselves about whether the picture in their head is the relevant one*.  It's the same mental bullshit trick that allows pro-life people to support getting abortions for THEMSELVES.  "but I'm not one of THOSE people, this is a special case."  

And they actually believe it I think.  Not most of the politicians.  But like, my friend Sue's aunt Bitsy** who wants to argue with me on Facebook after I comment on Sue's pro-choice post.  And no matter what you say, or how many examples you provide, she always wants to bring the conversation back to the scenario of healthy accidental pregnancies from consensual sex as if that's the only relevant one.  I think she actually believes it in the unexamined way she believes a lot of shit that makes zero sense.  

*I do want to note, that I fully support the right of an heavy drinker with a very active sex life to also get an abortion as she sees fit. But I wouldn't expect Aunt Bitsy not to judge her for it.  Aunt Bitsy is gonna judge even if she stops being wrong about abortions generally.

**fake names, real events

[rubytue]

A different fallout, but one I’ve been thinking about.
There is a women on my cancer relapse board who got pregnant in between induction chemo and her stem cell transplant. She has posted several times about how she would like to not be pregnant but doesn’t have a choice (in a red state with a trigger law) and her only option is to have the kid and hope the cancer doesn’t come back. Statistically, it has a real good chance at coming back given the induction chemo she had. From what I gather, either this doesn’t qualify as a “life of the mother” situation, or no one is willing to try it, in case it doesn’t.

[Patsy Baloney]

Jul 14, 2022 13:59:43 GMT -5 fernweh said:

Jim Bopp the Right to Life general council about the 10 year old who crossed state lines to have an abortion


“She would have had the baby, and as many women who have had babies as a result of rape, we would hope that she would understand the reason and ultimately the benefit of having the child,” Bopp said in a phone interview on Thursday.


1. She’s 10 - no she isn’t going to understand “the reason and benefits” of her having a baby. She is a baby and is already traumatized

2. She’s 10 - could she even give birth without it killing her? It doesn’t seem like 10 year old bodies would be able to handle that.

Republicans are such shit pigs. Every article I read makes me angrier and angrier.

RTL is a terrorist group and I won’t be convinced otherwise.

[bears]

Jul 14, 2022 14:12:28 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jul 14, 2022 13:37:51 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Meanwhile now these evil clowns are trying to redefine what does or doesn't constitute an 'abortion' to make their laws look not so blatantly cruel.
....

I see this a lot.  And not just now, it's been a tactic for a looooooong time that works really really well to frame this conversation around this mythical woman who runs around slutting it up, gets pregnant, probably sits around drinking  while deciding she doesn't want a stinky ole baby and trots off for her abortion three times a year. 

And people who aren't like...actively, consciously, cruel evil assholes EAT.IT.UP.  They picture this "immoral" person "killing her unborn babies", and then when prochoice advocates bring up all the other real life people who are losing legal control over their own bodies they can't get past that picture and lie to themselves about whether the picture in their head is the relevant one*.  It's the same mental bullshit trick that allows pro-life people to support getting abortions for THEMSELVES.  "but I'm not one of THOSE people, this is a special case."  

And they actually believe it I think.  Not most of the politicians.  But like, my friend Sue's aunt Bitsy** who wants to argue with me on Facebook after I comment on Sue's pro-choice post.  And no matter what you say, or how many examples you provide, she always wants to bring the conversation back to the scenario of healthy accidental pregnancies from consensual sex as if that's the only relevant one.  I think she actually believes it in the unexamined way she believes a lot of shit that makes zero sense.  

*I do want to note, that I fully support the right of an heavy drinker with a very active sex life to also get an abortion as she sees fit. But I wouldn't expect Aunt Bitsy not to judge her for it.  Aunt Bitsy is gonna judge even if she stops being wrong about abortions generally.

**fake names, real events

These sorts of straw men arguments were the mainstain of my father-in-law's conservative beliefs. It is what they teach on Fox News.

[TR]

Jul 14, 2022 14:17:57 GMT -5 rubytue said:

A different fallout, but one I’ve been thinking about.
There is a women on my cancer relapse board who got pregnant in between induction chemo and her stem cell transplant. She has posted several times about how she would like to not be pregnant but doesn’t have a choice (in a red state with a trigger law) and her only option is to have the kid and hope the cancer doesn’t come back. Statistically, it has a real good chance at coming back given the induction chemo she had. From what I gather, either this doesn’t qualify as a “life of the mother” situation, or no one is willing to try it, in case it doesn’t.

I hope people are sharing resources to help her like abortion funds and organizations that will plan, pay for, and assist with travel for abortions.

[NewOrleans]

Please watch for when she says the pregnancy “would probably impact her[the 10 year old’s] life” and therefore would not actually be an abortion

[rubytue]

Jul 14, 2022 15:28:02 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Please watch for when she says the pregnancy “would probably impact her[the 10 year old’s] life” and therefore would not actually be an abortion

🤬 They are trying to redefine “abortion.” I saw something a couple weeks ago about how ending an ectopic pregnancy is not abortion. It was probably discussed in the other thread. 

edit, adding example I found trying to look for the article 

[NewOrleans]

Jul 14, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Jul 14, 2022 15:28:02 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Please watch for when she says the pregnancy “would probably impact her[the 10 year old’s] life” and therefore would not actually be an abortion

🤬 They are trying to redefine “abortion.” I saw something a couple weeks ago about how ending an ectopic pregnancy is not abortion. It was probably discussed in the other thread. 

edit, adding example I found trying to look for the article 

Well, they have to because otherwise they’d be admitting that abortion is valid medical care!

 Like in this clip on ectopics , which may be the one you’re thinking of, when Ayanna Pressley gathers Josh Hawley’s wife.

[suburbanzookeeper]

PDQ fully, will delete later.

I was 13 and "very mature for my age" and cannot comprehend being three years younger in the same position, let alone in a state that would have forced me to carry it to term. I miscarried while waiting for my termination appointment and required a D&C since I was 13+ weeks along. I have had to disclose that pregnancy my entire life through all of my medical treatment, through my wanted pregnancies, etc. I haven't been able to get away from that trauma because when you list dates, it's very easy to do math - and having to explain that no, I wasn't sexually active, I was sexually assaulted at that age is a fucking trip. I would have a 24 year old today.

[NewOrleans]

suburbanzookeeper, damn. I’m sorry.

[NewOrleans]

Republicans block taking up Senate bill to guarantee freedom to travel across states for abortions

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/14/politics/republicans-block-senate-bill-abortion-travel-states/index.html

[winecat]

Jul 14, 2022 14:58:58 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 14, 2022 14:17:57 GMT -5 rubytue said:

A different fallout, but one I’ve been thinking about.
There is a women on my cancer relapse board who got pregnant in between induction chemo and her stem cell transplant. She has posted several times about how she would like to not be pregnant but doesn’t have a choice (in a red state with a trigger law) and her only option is to have the kid and hope the cancer doesn’t come back. Statistically, it has a real good chance at coming back given the induction chemo she had. From what I gather, either this doesn’t qualify as a “life of the mother” situation, or no one is willing to try it, in case it doesn’t.

I hope people are sharing resources to help her like abortion funds and organizations that will plan, pay for, and assist with travel for abortions.

rubytue- Do you know this person well?  If you do and she/they want to travel, I'm in Denver and can help however is needed.  

[taratru]

A 10 year old is not a "woman." Jesus christ, how anyone can defend this.

[rubytue]

TR, winecat, and others curious. I have been supportive, but I don’t know her that well. I mean, and there are a bazillion other dynamics things I don’t want to get into. I kinda feel like even saying what I did here was cringy. But, I just want to wrap her in a blanket and bring her to MD for a week (and have said as much). It just bothers me so much we are here 😭

[maudefindlay]

Jul 14, 2022 9:50:58 GMT -5 fernweh said:

If abortion is legal in Indiana what is the Attorney General investigating? The fact that she may or may not have reported the sexual abuse of a child? Considering this story has made (inter)national headlines and someone has been charged with the crime… it’s obvious it was reported by someone, I assuming a parent.
Would the doctor have an obligation to report beyond that?

He is looking for anything he can find. He even mentions a possible HIPPA violation and references "the horrors of illegal immigration". The doctor's lawyer released a statement and they may sue Rokita for slander.

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Jul 14, 2022 15:56:47 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Jul 14, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -5 rubytue said:

🤬 They are trying to redefine “abortion.” I saw something a couple weeks ago about how ending an ectopic pregnancy is not abortion. It was probably discussed in the other thread. 

edit, adding example I found trying to look for the article 

Well, they have to because otherwise they’d be admitting that abortion is valid medical care!

 Like in this clip on ectopics , which may be the one you’re thinking of, when Ayanna Pressley gathers Josh Hawley’s wife.

They have to parse the language just enough to leave themselves the option. A friend of mine worked for a reproductive health clinic that performed abortions, and she has countless stories about the number of good Christian republican women who came in for an abortion but swore up and down that their circumstances were different than anyone else’s. The willful disconnect and lack of empathy is really staggering.

suburbanzookeeper, I’m so sorry you had to go through that.

[winecat]

(((suburbanzookeeper)))

[suburbanzookeeper]

Ahh yes, the good ol' "the only moral abortion is MY abortion."

[wanderingback]

Jul 14, 2022 14:17:57 GMT -5 rubytue said:

A different fallout, but one I’ve been thinking about.
There is a women on my cancer relapse board who got pregnant in between induction chemo and her stem cell transplant. She has posted several times about how she would like to not be pregnant but doesn’t have a choice (in a red state with a trigger law) and her only option is to have the kid and hope the cancer doesn’t come back. Statistically, it has a real good chance at coming back given the induction chemo she had. From what I gather, either this doesn’t qualify as a “life of the mother” situation, or no one is willing to try it, in case it doesn’t.

Yep this is also something that isn’t new unfortunately. Have had lots of colleagues previously had to fight in their hospitals to get people abortions who had recent cancer diagnoses and wanted to start chemo or other treatments.

Is this person being connected to resources to help them get care? Feel free to message me if you know them and think I could help.