The gop speaker vote - finally final

[seeyalater52]

Jan 4, 2023 13:31:23 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

I admit I only understand politics at basic levels. Is there any chance the democrats could choose a republican they are willing to vote for and convince 5 republicans to vote for that person as well?

I mean they COULD. In my post above I speculated that they won’t/shouldn’t do this unless they are offered some sort of power sharing agreement. There is essentially no benefit to the Democratic caucus of having a more moderate Republican Speaker if they don’t have more power in the committee structure than minority parties typically do. They’d need to extract quite the bargain.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 4, 2023 13:31:23 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

I admit I only understand politics at basic levels. Is there any chance the democrats could choose a republican they are willing to vote for and convince 5 republicans to vote for that person as well?

They could indeed do this. I just hope they don't.

[estrellita]

Jan 4, 2023 13:31:23 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

I admit I only understand politics at basic levels. Is there any chance the democrats could choose a republican they are willing to vote for and convince 5 republicans to vote for that person as well?

From what I understand, they could. But why bother when the Rs are making absolute fools of themselves (unless they get some good concessions, lol).

[seeyalater52]

Jan 4, 2023 13:34:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jan 4, 2023 13:29:30 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I think if there was enough support for an alternate speaker candidate we’d have seen that emerge by now. I suspect they’ll drag this out quite a bit and McCarthy will end up giving in to more of the FC demands, including procedural changes that make it easier to oust him as speaker. I don’t think it will move quickly though.

I’m not sure I think Dems will (or should) try to step in backing a more moderate GOP speaker unless the concession they get is some sort of power sharing agreement, which I doubt could get a majority vote either.

I thought he already agreed to this? But maybe there's more he can agree to in this regard.

I really hope the Dems don't enter into any kind of an agreement. I don't trust the GOP to hold up their end of the agreement anyway. This is the GOP's mess, they can figure out how to fix it themselves. 

There’s more they want that he didn’t agree to. Although to the point of the article posted above it shreds the procedural rules to the point of hollowing out the whole institution so anyone willing to agree to this stuff is walking on reeeeeeal thin ice.

[smock]

The most hilarious way to resolve the Speaker dispute: "Can't wait to see this go to penalty kicks tomorrow," says Jon Ralston.

[NewOrleans]

Jan 4, 2023 13:36:53 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jan 4, 2023 13:34:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I thought he already agreed to this? But maybe there's more he can agree to in this regard.

I really hope the Dems don't enter into any kind of an agreement. I don't trust the GOP to hold up their end of the agreement anyway. This is the GOP's mess, they can figure out how to fix it themselves. 

There’s more they want that he didn’t agree to. Although to the point of the article posted above it shreds the procedural rules to the point of hollowing out the whole institution so anyone willing to agree to this stuff is walking on reeeeeeal thin ice.

“I just hurt for the institution. It’s painful.”  😆

 💧—>🫙 

[NewOrleans]

Jan 4, 2023 13:24:47 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

Guys how does this end? What are your predictions?

Democrats cave. 😒

[beetea]

Vote #5 just started....

[cous0226]

Even if there is an alternative, the crackpots won't like that person if they are not one of them.
They will then need Dem votes but it will still be a loss for R's because they can't pass shit without Dems because the 20 will always say no.
Perhaps Dems could use this to their advantage to get R's to pass stuff they want too or nothing will happen for 2 years.

[seeyalater52]

Jan 4, 2023 13:53:41 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Jan 4, 2023 13:36:53 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

There’s more they want that he didn’t agree to. Although to the point of the article posted above it shreds the procedural rules to the point of hollowing out the whole institution so anyone willing to agree to this stuff is walking on reeeeeeal thin ice.

“I just hurt for the institution. It’s painful.”  😆

 💧—>🫙 

I mean this is exceptionally dumb framing but I do think some of the things they’re asking for would destabilize power structures in the House in ways that aren’t productive to governing and it sets a bad precedent.

[mrshandy]

I personally think the D's should negotiate their way to work with a few of the moderate R's and nominate another more tolerable speaker than McCarthy. They should at least be open to it. It would look really bad for the Republicans if this happened and be a huge embarrassment.

But that's just my take. Having a non functioning government really doesn't benefit either party and if they can show that they are willing to cross the aisle to make sure that government works that is a powerful message to have going into the 2024 elections. Because that is a lot of what the American public wants.

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Jan 4, 2023 13:58:42 GMT -5 beetea said:

Vote #5 just started....

Annnnnd he’s donezo already, hahahaha.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 4, 2023 14:05:16 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

I personally think the D's should negotiate their way to work with a few of the moderate R's and nominate another more tolerable speaker than McCarthy. They should at least be open to it. It would look really bad for the Republicans if this happened and be a huge embarrassment.

But that's just my take. Having a non functioning government really doesn't benefit either party and if they can show that they are willing to cross the aisle to make sure that government works that is a powerful message to have going into the 2024 elections. Because that is a lot of what the American public wants.

Which is why I'm taking back my earlier prediction of McCarthy ekeing out a win. These 20 holdouts don't *want* a functioning government, and they'll sacrifice impeaching Biden for who the fuck knows what and will sacrifice investigating Hunter Biden and Hillary's e-mails and Benghazi. They're the disrupters their voters wanted. 

And yes, it doesn't benefit the Democrats either only because Republican voters will just hear on Newsmax that this is all the Democrats fault and believe it.

[yellow23]

Jan 4, 2023 13:35:55 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jan 4, 2023 13:31:23 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

I admit I only understand politics at basic levels. Is there any chance the democrats could choose a republican they are willing to vote for and convince 5 republicans to vote for that person as well?

I mean they COULD. In my post above I speculated that they won’t/shouldn’t do this unless they are offered some sort of power sharing agreement. There is essentially no benefit to the Democratic caucus of having a more moderate Republican Speaker if they don’t have more power in the committee structure than minority parties topically do. They’d need to extract quite the bargain.

If it starts to look like republicans will choose one of the MAGA group would it make since for democrats to try to choose a moderate republican then? Or is it better for them to get a really bad speaker? My thought goes to the line of succession and that it would be good to have a “not as horrible” person in that spot? I wouldn’t think now is the time for democrats to make a move like that, but if this goes one for a couple weeks I wasn’t sure if they should try to choose a republican to vote for. I don’t understand everything enough to really have an opinion on what should happen, I’m just wondering about things as I try to keep up.

[seeyalater52]

Jan 4, 2023 14:13:18 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

Jan 4, 2023 13:35:55 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I mean they COULD. In my post above I speculated that they won’t/shouldn’t do this unless they are offered some sort of power sharing agreement. There is essentially no benefit to the Democratic caucus of having a more moderate Republican Speaker if they don’t have more power in the committee structure than minority parties topically do. They’d need to extract quite the bargain.

If it starts to look like republicans will choose one of the MAGA group would it make since for democrats to try to choose a moderate republican then? Or is it better for them to get a really bad speaker? My thought goes to the line of succession and that it would be good to have a “not as horrible” person in that spot? I wouldn’t think now is the time for democrats to make a move like that, but if this goes one for a couple weeks I wasn’t sure if they should try to choose a republican to vote for. I don’t understand everything enough to really have an opinion on what should happen, I’m just wondering about things as I try to keep up.

Others may disagree but there are a lot of reasons why having a more conservative speaker benefit democrats (primarily them continuing to embarrass and cannibalize each other for the next 2 years) and in my opinion fewer ways having a moderate Republican speaker benefits democrats or the American people, unless they’re able to negotiate for meaningful power sharing. I’m not even sure a moderate GOP speaker could even govern effectively in that scenario.

[Velar Fricative]

Wait, Justin Amash randomly showed up? lol

[seeyalater52]

I think it’s easy to romanticize some sort of “we go high” bipartisan solution but I’m not sure there’s even a moderate Republican speaker candidate who could coalesce that kind of power or that if there was that they’d be meaningfully different politically and governance-wise from McCarthy or many others in their caucus to justify Dems putting that sort of trust and faith in them.

[Velar Fricative]

Is this going to turn into the WWE with more surprises? Anyone bringing a steel chair?

[estrellita]

Is there somewhere we can see how individual reps voted? Curious if my good for nothing rep is involved.. lol.

[cous0226]

Do we know if the crazies like Steve Scalise?

[rubytue]

Tangent: I keep think about Gingrich. Anyone remember how he ended up speaker? Did it take a few votes? That was when the Rs took over the house, and he was a newly elected guy - and out there by 90s standards. I realize not the same situation, but I keep reading all of this and he pops into my head. How did that happen?

[pixy0stix]

Jan 4, 2023 14:33:08 GMT -5 estrellita said:

Is there somewhere we can see how individual reps voted? Curious if my good for nothing rep is involved.. lol.

WaPo has that on their site

[seeyalater52]

Jan 4, 2023 14:51:07 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Tangent: I keep think about Gingrich. Anyone remember how he ended up speaker? Did it take a few votes? That was when the Rs took over the house, and he was a newly elected guy - and out there by 90s standards. I realize not the same situation, but I keep reading all of this and he pops into my head. How did that happen?

GOP was much less ideologically fractured back then.

Personally I keep thinking of Pelosi keeping her caucus in line with the same narrow margin for the last 2 years. She was truly the master.

[pixy0stix]

Apparently Trump has asked them to vote for McCarthy because this is an embarrassment. Lololol!

[bronxgirl]

Jan 4, 2023 14:51:07 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Tangent: I keep think about Gingrich. Anyone remember how he ended up speaker? Did it take a few votes? That was when the Rs took over the house, and he was a newly elected guy - and out there by 90s standards. I realize not the same situation, but I keep reading all of this and he pops into my head. How did that happen?

. I found this on the NBC news site: “The last time a speaker vote went to multiple ballots was in 1923, when Speaker Frederick Gillett, R-Mass., won re-election on the ninth ballot.”

[pixy0stix]

How I know people haven't read the thread...

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Jan 4, 2023 15:00:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apparently Trump has asked them to vote for McCarthy because this is an embarrassment. Lololol!

And Boebert, in her nominating speech before the last vote, said Trump needs to call McCarthy and tell him he doesn’t have the votes. I don’t like to give her credit for anything, but I cackled.

[mrsslocombe]

Jan 4, 2023 14:44:32 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

Do we know if the crazies like Steve Scalise?

He's not really fundamentally different than McCarthy. And the core cluster of these morons just want chaos. They don't have a purview other than "humiliate Kevin". So maybe some of them might go for Scalise, it depends on how long they want to throw their tantrum. 

[pixy0stix]

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAA!

Look, I get that this is a serious breach in our democracy, but ffs these assholes thought they were going to waltz in and own the place and this is happening. They're reaping what they sow right now.

[pixy0stix]