Dogs--sizes; help me with choices?

[nicolewi]

My dog saga continues. Despite knowing it will be hard and all on me, I keep thinking I will regret not having a dog if we don't go for it. So we're moving ahead. DH is still not fully into it but has softened. 

I'm on the list for an Australian Labradoodle (very hypoallergenic although I know no dog is guaranteed!) ready 2/10; getting updates from breeder; have put down deposit. Small, old-fashioned in-home breeder; great reputation. Puppy esimated at 50-55 pounds. The litter I originally wanted was more like 40 pounds, which I still prefer, but that one was full. We have 3rd female pick on this litter. Puppies go home just after 7 weeks; I really prefer at least 8; she said she's done it this was for 13 years and most in the area do the same (appears to be true). She doesn't do a lot of litters so it might be a long wait if I pass (I haven't asked about it yet). 

Meanwhile, another highly recommended breeder has smaller Australian Labradoodles avail in a similar timeframe. Would cost us more, and we'd lose the other deposit ("only" $200), but dog could be from a 40-50 pound estimated litter or a 30-35 pound estimated litter. I like that they don't send puppies home until 9 weeks, and they do a ton of socialization. They do all the ENS early puppy stimulation and a socialization program, take them on car rides, etc. If I want to get on the list, I need to do it ASAP.

(BTW, if you've been following, a lot of people said not to get a puppy in February; if we can push to March that would be great, but this time frame actually works well for us for other reasons with kid activities and DH's work, so that's why we are interested now in spite of the weather). 

My thought with 40-ish is that I wanted a sturdy, mid-size dog that can swim, go on hikes, etc, and not get taken by an eagle at our cottage (seriously!!!), but not so big that we couldn't lift the dog if needed; takes up less room in the car, etc.

Do you think there's much difference from 40 to 50 pounds? and what do you think re: the 7 weeks vs 9 weeks with structured socialization?

[Susie]

My family has golden retrievers, and our dogs have ranged from about 51 lbs. to about 85 lbs.  A good 30-35 lb. swing.  Generally the girls are in the lower half of the range, the boys in the upper half, but there's some variability in those trends too.  I would say the OP is a lot of words relative to the amount of thought/consideration I've given to the specific topic of desired dog weight.  There are so many things I care more about than projected adult weight, and I attach no importance at all to where in the range my dog's healthy adult weight falls.

[nicolewi]

THanks. It's just trying to gauge the overall size and what works best; they tend to list litters by estimated adult weight.

We had goldens, too, and I love them but am mildly allergic. My mom says our last one was 65 pounds. She was a nice size, but definitely too big to lift easily.

[icedcoffee]

I think anything in that range of 30-50 lbs is a really good size. I have a beagle. There are 2 sizes of beagles and we went for this bigger because I wanted a beagle and my H wanted a lab so we compromised on a big beagle. LOL I LOVE the size of a beagle. It's perfect. He tends to gravitate closer to 50lbs, but he's really hungry and has some health issues that make losing weight hard. I don't think you'll notice a big difference in 40-50lbs.

[icedcoffee]

I'd go more by height of the parents to determine than weight.  I mean...it's a mutt it really could end up being any size!

[redheadbaker]

Why pay a backyard breeder for a mutt?

[redheadk]

Jan 3, 2023 12:58:51 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Small, old-fashioned in-home breeder

That is a backyard breeder and her justifications on when the dogs go home do her no favors. 

[wanderingback]

Jan 3, 2023 13:41:52 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Why pay a backyard breeder for a mutt?

I wish I knew how to post gifs.

Insert Whoopi Goldberg "you in danger girl" here.

[tacokick]

If you want a mix, I’d just get a young dog from a shelter. Then you can actually see the size/fur/temperament.

[aspentosh]

I don't mean this meanly, but I think it's somewhat laughable that they are giving you sizes and you're making these decisions when that can't be guaranteed. Also, totally a backyard breeder for that first one.

Our first rescue was a boxer that we got at 1.5yrs old because the dog "was huge".... he was 55lbs and would be considered the runt of any litter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, for a family that isn't ALL 100% in, fostering is a great way to try out dog ownership without signing up for a (dog's) lifetime commitment. It would allow you to get a feel for size and temperament and what's actually important when you're introducing any animal into a family. And the fact that you have allergies and they can't guarantee hypoallergenic.... It just feels really messy to me and I hate the idea of a dog being returned for something that isn't their fault.

[expectantsteelerfan]

So these are my 2.  The black one is a mutt, and she weighs roughly around 50 lbs (it fluctuates between 45-55 lbs I'd say) and the golden one is a full-bred English lab who at her heaviest (which I think she was at that picture) was about 95 lbs (she's closer to 85 now).  We also previously had a beagle that was around 30 lbs.  

Honestly, you probably won't notice a huge difference between 35 and 50 lbs.  I wouldn't let that size difference sway you as those are both in the mid-size dog range.  I DO notice a big difference between my 50 and 85 lb dogs even though when they are standing next to each other, they look pretty similarly sized and they play well together and take up the same general amount of space on the couch and in the car.  Walking them is different (although I walk them together), and I can pretty easily lift the 50 lb dog into the car if I need to, whereas I just can't the lab, at all.  Plus it's a huge difference if one of them runs into you or jumps on you.  

However, I would be swayed by the going home at 7 weeks versus 9 weeks, and I'd be willing to pay more to let the puppy spend the extra time with their mom/siblings, especially if they are working on training/socializing them during that time.  

[steamboat185]

I don’t think any reputable source says puppies should be separated from their litter before 8 weeks and I wouldn’t get a dog from a “breeder” who did.

[mrsGreeko]

I don’t think you will really notice a difference between those sizes. The breeder we got our Weimeraner from said he’d be around 100 pounds. He’s more like 85. They can’t guarantee sizes, juts guess.

But, we also foster puppies and my SIL also does it. The puppies that I foster are usually 10-13 weeks. My SIL is currently fostering 2 puppies that are 7 weeks old. Her puppies cry all night. Mine have all slept through the night. She’s cleaning up a lot more messes, I’ve been able to potty train mine mostly from the start. So the age difference might make a huge difference in your enjoyment of the puppy.

[icedcoffee]

I think prior posters have a lot of good points, but I also want to add that puppies are a shit load of work. We had one. We love him. The next one will be a 1-2 year old. Even if they have "bad habits" from being a rescue, they're old enough to learn quickly whereas puppies just don't. They're babies.

[nicolewi]

Okay, thanks. I get people's concerns and the whole "doodle" backlash thing. I don't know your def of "backyard breeder" but this lady has great feedback, we know someone who got a dog from her, and she does full genetic testing on parents, they are multi-generation lines, there's a genetic health guarantee. She's certified by the state and by the goldendoodle breeders assoc (this would be an ALD, though). She only breeds when she has demand and only does a few litters/year. This was a big litter of 11 pups and only 3 are still avail.

And I thought 7 weeks would be a dealbreaker and obviously it is something I'm really considering, but honestly almost every breeder in the area seems to go with the weekend after they turn 7 weeks. It seems to be standard for some reason. One thing I really like about this other option is that they do keep puppies longer; I really wanted at least 8 weeks.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 3, 2023 14:47:56 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Okay, thanks. I get people's concerns and the whole "doodle" backlash thing. I don't know your def of "backyard breeder" but this lady has great feedback, we know someone who got a dog from her, and she does full genetic testing on parents, they are multi-generation lines, there's a genetic health guarantee. She's certified by the state and by the goldendoodle breeders assoc (this would be an ALD, though). She only breeds when she has demand and only does a few litters/year. This was a big litter of 11 pups and only 3 are still avail.

No reputable breeder breeds mutts. 

[orangello]

They’re likely sending the mixed breed puppies home at 7 weeks so they do not have to pay for the 8 week vet visit/shots. It is generally not recommended by professional breeders to send pups home earlier than 8 weeks unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

[noodleoo]

I know very little about dogs, but my neighbor got a bernedoodle puppy over the summer. The breeder told them it was a "mini" bernedoodle and they kept saying the dog is only going to be 40 pounds and that they wanted a small dog. Fast forward 6 months and this dog is HUGE. They love their dog, but they are not very happy about it. So my advice is to not trust the size estimates and be prepared for the dog to be a lot bigger than you anticipate.

Also the wife was talked into getting the dog and she told me she regrets it. Puppies are pains in the asses. (Her words, not mine!).

[nicolewi]

They do have vet visit and first shots.

[TR]

This is all around just a terrible idea based on all of your posts about it.

[Saudade]

I thought it was illegal in many places to send puppies home before 8 weeks?

[chedifuen]

30 to 50 pounds is a great size. In no way would I consider a breeder "reputable" if they're removing the puppies from their mothers prior to 8 weeks. It's not even legal in a lot of states!

[nicolewi]

Law is 7 weeks in Wisconsin.

[chedifuen]

I know nothing about Aussiedoodles but I do have an Aussie that I have raised since he was 12 weeks old, he's currently 8 years old.

I love him to death and he truly is a magical dog. However, he's also 1 in 100. He's very calm, sweet, and low energy. Our vet says to us literally every time he goes in that he's the polar opposite of most aussies. Just keep that in mind. Most are very high needs when it comes to activity and anxiety.

[devonpow]

I would be very very cautious of a breeder who insists you pick up at 7 weeks. Also, we went through a breeder after a lot of research and we could not pick up our dog at 8 weeks. They allowed later pick up and various options for us, including keeping her for a few more weeks and helping socialize/early crate train etc. A good breeder won’t let the puppies leave their moms too early plus will work with adopting families to make sure the dogs go to good homes. I see red flags.

For size - you really have no idea what you are going to get. Our girl is 60 pounds but all her brothers and sisters are 80 pounds+. Unless you are looking at different breeds (say a dachshund vs a Labrador etc) it won’t make a huge difference IMO. My main consideration with size is things like travel (can they fit in your vehicle, do you need to fly places with them and therefore need a small dog that can go in the cabin etc). 40 vs 50 pounds is negligible.

[estrellita]

Just want to echo chedifuen on Aussies. I have never had one, but a coworker does (and previously had 2 Aussie puppies prior to a breakup, doesn't have them anymore). He said they were a TON of work. Very high energy, which is great for him, but may not be for everyone. Every dog is different, and a lot of it also comes from training, but breed was absolutely on my mind when we've considered a dog. I would love a husky so much, but they need so much exercise and we wouldn't be able to give that to one, so we would never get one unless we had an outdoor space it could run around in and/or we started going for extremely long walks every day. I just don't want the puppy to end up in the shelter because it ends up being way more than you bargained for - especially as a puppy. Our corgi is 9.5 months old and she is still TONS of work (we did a training class, but I don't think she learned a single thing). Luckily my H has a lot of experience with dogs so he takes on a lot of things with her. We got her at 9 weeks old and I don't think I would have wanted her much earlier. 7 weeks seems extreme, even if it is legal!

[maudefindlay]

Jan 3, 2023 16:18:45 GMT -5 TR said:

This is all around just a terrible idea based on all of your posts about it.

This. OP you are a sweet poster, but I just have a bad feeling this may result in your wanting to rehome.

[laterz]

Jan 3, 2023 15:02:48 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 3, 2023 14:47:56 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Okay, thanks. I get people's concerns and the whole "doodle" backlash thing. I don't know your def of "backyard breeder" but this lady has great feedback, we know someone who got a dog from her, and she does full genetic testing on parents, they are multi-generation lines, there's a genetic health guarantee. She's certified by the state and by the goldendoodle breeders assoc (this would be an ALD, though). She only breeds when she has demand and only does a few litters/year. This was a big litter of 11 pups and only 3 are still avail.

No reputable breeder breeds mutts. 

This.

[InBetweenDays]

chedifuen, estrellita, I googled this and an Australian Labradoodle doesn't have any Australian Shepherd in it (because I was thinking the same thing - a mix with aussie and poodle would be VERY high energy). From what I've read it's usually a poodle, lab, and cocker spaniel (so still an over priced mutt that is lining the pockets of a backyard breeder)

OP - think 15 years down the road. Are you absolutely willing to commit to owning, training, taking care of, and loving this dog for 15 years? You need to be absolutely certain that you can commit to that.

Which brings up another point about breeders. Almost any good breeder (and as redheadbaker, points out no reputable breeders breed mutts) would have in their contract that you need to return the dog to them if you are unable to keep them. Do either of these breeders say that in their contract? If not that's another red flag.

[Jalapeñomel]

Go to Tiktok and follow any vet who talks about dogs they’d never own. -Doodles rank high on so many lists for myriad reasons, one of which is that people think they won’t have allergies because they are “hypoallergenic”:

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/09/hypoallergenic-dog-allergies/671439/


Everything else has been covered by others.