Can we talk about San Francisco/Oakland? (And other cities)

[sakoro]

May 3, 2023 10:10:18 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

I've noticed a theme with some of the articles here: "Some parts of the city people gentrified have ungentrified a bit" (the tenderloin article, the Whole Foods article).

I can remember being in the tenderloin in the 90s as a kid and other neighborhoods (and Union Square early morning before the tourists arrived). Lots of people were homeless then and other people were able to live in SROs (that were torn down and rebuilt as luxury housing).

It's just that wealthy people and tourists weren't also in those spaces (like now) expecting them to look like Pac Heights. 

This.

I lived in the East Bay in the 90s and took BART over to the city occasionally. The unhoused and open drug use were issues even back then. I accidentally wandered into the tenderloin a few times and didn’t feel comfortable walking by myself to Symphony Hall for music class assignments. In other cities, the sketchier areas aren’t right next to the main public transit links— BART runs along Market street, where the major cultural institutions are and the main tourist shopping zone is like in SF.

I haven’t been to downtown SF since 2020 (moved to southern CA) but I can believe it is more visible because of 1) harder drugs like fentynal make people much sicker much faster and 2) there aren’t as many housed people around so the unhoused stick out more.

[wildrice]

May 2, 2023 23:12:16 GMT -5 krystee said:

I live near Chicago, and it was very eerie going to the theatre the other night because there were truly like 50 police cars around the immediate area. The weekend before there had been large crowds of teenagers blocking streets and shots were fired/bystanders were assaulted But while that isn’t good, it is really overdone in the news coverage. It makes you think this stuff is happening 24/7 when it’s a moment in time that is played and replayed and replayed…our night there was beautiful and peaceful.

This is what gets me, too - it's more common than it should be, but it's not like the second you set foot in the city you are going to get shot. I always say that although I once got carjacked while I lived in downtown Baltimore, I lived there another 700+ days when nothing at all happened. And I've been there multiple times a week in the 3 years since we moved and have also never had an issue. So like, odds are if you are visiting for a few days you will be 100% fine (and you'll have a great time - it's an incredible city!). Most people I know who live in the city and have lived there for years have never had anything worse than a car break-in happen, and in my supposedly super safe suburb people are always complaining about car break-ins too.

I haven't read all the rest of the thread so that's all I will add to this post!

[starlily]

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

[pinkdutchtulips]

May 3, 2023 8:55:15 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

Re: tourism - the numbers are increasing, but not yet at pre-pandemic levels. Conferences are a big driver.

www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/s-f-tourism-spending-doubled-2022-17846480.php

Spending volume in 2022 was 77% of the record high $9.6 billion in 2019, before the pandemic. A full spending recovery is expected by 2024, though hotel rates aren’t expected to reach pre-pandemic levels until 2026, according to San Francisco Travel, the city’s tourism bureau.

I work in EC and I'm noticing more and more convention badges walking in/out of the Hyatt Regency. I'm in SF anywhere from 2 to 5 days a week (hybrid work rotations) and I have yet to feel unsafe. I BART in and out during commute hours and the trains are PACKED going in/out of the East Bay. 

[Velar Fricative]

The only time I’ve ever had a crime committed against me was when I was in SF for a work conference in 2015 (wallet stolen out of my bag at a restaurant) and I still did go back to visit after that experience. I just never thought of it as something that couldn’t have happened to me anywhere else. I still think it’s a great city to visit but I am sad to hear the downtown area hasn’t rebounded fully.

Anyway, what’s been most noticeable to me locally as well as around the country based on what I read is the increase in car break-ins and thefts. It’s hard to understand why that particular crime has spiked without partisan hyperbole.

[konapoppy]

May 3, 2023 15:52:17 GMT -5 starlily said:

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

I was born and raised in the area and my car got broken into multiple times - stealing the radio!

But I never had someone try to break into a car while making eye contact with me, which is was happened a few months ago in Oakland. Or heard of someone breaking into a car while the owner was on the other side of the car pumping gas, which happened last week to someone I know. So while not new, the brazenness is startling, at least to me.

[meganew]

May 3, 2023 9:45:21 GMT -5 erbear said:

May 3, 2023 7:56:59 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I live in the Philly suburbs and frequent the city for both work-related reasons and food/entertainment. The political set up of this area lends itself to a huge divide in a way between the city and the outer areas. So for years when I mention a restaurant, museum, or performance in Philadelphia that I enjoyed, I've had neighbors and acquaintances say, "Oh, I don't really go into the city much." Which is frustrating because it's one of the 10 largest cities in the country with a lot to offer and has a fairly robust public transit system, including commuter rail.

Those comments have also been a bit more harsh, usually with a racist tinge, from the contingent of people who moved their kids out to more rural/exurban areas, usually in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

Anyway, there are still plenty of thriving restaurants and events in Philly. I usually go to my city office, which is a block from city hall, smack in the middle of downtown, once every week or two. But the level of poverty in center city (one area where business people and tourists are likely to see and which the city has tried to make look somewhat welcoming) is certainly increasing, and I see many more unhoused people sleeping on sidewalks during the day than I have in the last 10 years I've been here.

But I'm also annoyed that people now feel justified in their view of Philly as "dangerous" or bad.

I hope I didn't give off this message, because it wasn't at all my intent. I love Philly, and I am downtown all the time. I've noticed changes, particularly during the pandemic where blocks that were usually pretty busy seem more isolated, SEPTA stations feel emptier, etc. but Philadelphia is not unsafe and is such a vibrant, awesome city.

I love Philly- obviously- and I sing its praises whenever given the chance because it’s a beautiful city with great parks, museums, and restaurants. But I absolutely feel more unsafe walking around now than I did 10 years ago.

My girlfriend was mugged and had her purse stolen 10 years ago and that sucked, but she walked away from the incident pissed but unharmed- the fear now is along with getting mugged you get a concussion or worse. The intensity and the randomness of the crimes, coupled with how completely unresponsive our police are is where my fear lies.

[starlily]

May 3, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

I was born and raised in the area and my car got broken into multiple times - stealing the radio!

But I never had someone try to break into a car while making eye contact with me, which is was happened a few months ago in Oakland. Or heard of someone breaking into a car while the owner was on the other side of the car pumping gas, which happened last week to someone I know. So while not new, the brazenness is startling, at least to me.

It's probably a combo of my job and working in a perpetually rough city, but the gas station thing is something I've been aware of for at least a decade. The eye contact incident is surprising though; that's usually a good deterrent.

[sonrisa]

May 3, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

May 3, 2023 15:52:17 GMT -5 starlily said:

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

I was born and raised in the area and my car got broken into multiple times - stealing the radio!

But I never had someone try to break into a car while making eye contact with me, which is was happened a few months ago in Oakland. Or heard of someone breaking into a car while the owner was on the other side of the car pumping gas, which happened last week to someone I know. So while not new, the brazenness is startling, at least to me.

Yes - that is brazen and beyond a regular car break in.

[Velar Fricative]

May 3, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

May 3, 2023 15:52:17 GMT -5 starlily said:

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

I was born and raised in the area and my car got broken into multiple times - stealing the radio!

But I never had someone try to break into a car while making eye contact with me, which is was happened a few months ago in Oakland. Or heard of someone breaking into a car while the owner was on the other side of the car pumping gas, which happened last week to someone I know. So while not new, the brazenness is startling, at least to me.

I find myself using the word “brazen” a lot. Constant surveillance (through Ring cameras on basically every house, security cameras everywhere else, witnesses, etc.) is clearly not a deterrent.

[formerlyak]

May 3, 2023 15:52:17 GMT -5 starlily said:

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

Substitute LA for SF and I am right there with you. I have lived in LA for 40 of my 48 years of life and only had my car broken into once. And it was because I left a big book of CDs on the passenger seat of my car. Smash and grab. Totally my bad for leaving a ton of CDs in plain sight.

Part of me also looks at the crime data and it doesn't seem any worse than when I was growing up. And violent crime is still down. I wonder if all the posts on NextDoor and other online outlets are making it more visible. So it's not that it's actually happening more. It's that people are more aware and talking about it more.

[pixy0stix]

May 3, 2023 16:53:34 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

May 3, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

I was born and raised in the area and my car got broken into multiple times - stealing the radio!

But I never had someone try to break into a car while making eye contact with me, which is was happened a few months ago in Oakland. Or heard of someone breaking into a car while the owner was on the other side of the car pumping gas, which happened last week to someone I know. So while not new, the brazenness is startling, at least to me.

I find myself using the word “brazen” a lot. Constant surveillance (through Ring cameras on basically every house, security cameras everywhere else, witnesses, etc.) is clearly not a deterrent.

My car was "broken" into last year (I say this loosely as I'd been juggling stuff getting out of the car and forgot to lock it). The person looked right at our surveillance camera and just kept on doing what they were doing. Nothing was taken as I only keep trash in my car, lol. My neighbors made a stink about it, the people tried several car door handles, but also my grandparents lived in this house before I did, and I know they had their car broken into a handful of times that I could personally remember.

[wildrice]

I think these increases in crime are due to a lot of things, but I suspect some of this is escalating because over time there has just been a lack of investment in poverty and in people, particularly those who have low incomes. Some thefts are because people are trying to get money to survive, and some are due to things like gang initiation, and some are due to boredom, and I'm sure there are other causes. This is what happens when you give people no hope for a better future and don't provide them with basic needs, including safety and education.

When I was carjacked by a group of teenagers, it sucked but the feeling I took away the most from that situation was sadness. It really broke my heart that there was a group of teen boys who felt that the best thing to do with their Friday night was to commit a felony that could potentially destroy their future. I have no idea what happened to my phone, but they crashed my car and we had no cash so they really got nothing else of value out of it. They just did it because whatever else they had going on wasn't as appealing in that moment as committing a crime. I think that's a societal issue that probably has more to do with how they've been treated than with who they are. FWIW they never figured out who did it (I doubt they tried very hard to figure it out, either) but I'm honestly glad because I kind of doubt they would have had the money to pay for my stuff and I really didn't want anything to do with putting a bunch of kids in the justice system.

Also just a general reminder that homelessness is not a crime. It certainly can be depressing and make people uncomfortable, but seeing people experiencing homelessness around does not inherently make you less safe or indicate that there is a rise in crime. People without a place to go are far more likely to be victims of crime than to commit one.

[penguingrrl]

I was very sorry to read about the struggles SF is having, and that it seems to be really widespread in many downtowns across the country. I definitely think a reimagining of housing/office ratio and creative reuse in an era with increased WFH impacting downtown makeups and economies is inevitable over the next decade. NYC definitely feels different to me than it did before 2020 as well.

But the notion that somehow these types of petty crimes is limited to urban areas is a head scratcher to me. I live in suburban NJ and our police are constantly sending out warnings about huge numbers of .car break ins and we’ve had a huge increase in car thefts since the pandemic started. Many of the thefts are unlocked vehicles with the key fob left in them. I think these types of crimes are up universally due to the deepening divide between haves and have nots in this hellscape of an economy.

[wanderingback]

May 3, 2023 16:54:56 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

May 3, 2023 15:52:17 GMT -5 starlily said:

I was born and raised in SF. I'm fascinated by the car break-in discourse because even as a child in the 80s, we were taught to never leave anything of value visible inside a parked car. It's not a new problem.

I haven't visited SF since 2021, but didn't head downtown that time. I did get a few comments last year though, prior to visiting Seattle with my girls, wondering whether it was a good idea because these people perceived it to be extremely dangerous. It was perfectly fine. There was one block slightly more sketchy than I'd expected, but nobody bothered us, and we just walked up one street over the next time we headed that way.

Substitute LA for SF and I am right there with you. I have lived in LA for 40 of my 48 years of life and only had my car broken into once. And it was because I left a big book of CDs on the passenger seat of my car. Smash and grab. Totally my bad for leaving a ton of CDs in plain sight.

Part of me also looks at the crime data and it doesn't seem any worse than when I was growing up. And violent crime is still down. I wonder if all the posts on NextDoor and other online outlets are making it more visible. So it's not that it's actually happening more. It's that people are more aware and talking about it more.

Yes, I’m very confused, even in this very post, people are saying crime is up, like car break ins, but are they really?

Since I moved a lot as a kid I can’t say I know my pulse on 1 specific city but most of my family grew up in Baltimore and we visited a lot. All my family had The Club on their cars, you definitely never left anything visible in your car and there was often talks about car break ins, thefts and car jackings. My friends car was broken in to in DC when we were in our late teens out at a club.

Wasn’t there some republic recently saying that crime in NYC was sky high but NYC clapped back saying the city that the Republican was in actually had a higher crime rate?

Is it the 24/7 news cycle contributing to this?
I certainly think there are many fucked up things in this country and people have so many mental health and social service needs, but is crime actually up?

[neverfstop]

It also feels like some of this is the MAGA media & their fear-based tactics amplifying everything that happens in the liberal, coastal areas. I heard the violent crime rates were worse in Kevin McCarthy's district (in OC?) than in downtown SF (Pelosi's district).

My BFF lived a few blocks from the ballpark for several years, but COVID & the fires (air quality) plus drugs broke them & they moved to Philly (suburbs). She said she was tired of walking her kid+dog on sidewalks covered in human feces and by drug deals. I have heard from others that the opioid epidemic has hit really hard.

Ezra Klein did an interview with a local politician in SF and they talked at length about the issues of SF and California in general. NYC built tons of shelters for the homeless (which had its' own set of problems) and California leaned more into providing services. It was an insightful interview about a variety of policy topics. podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democrats-pay-attention-to-whats-happening-in-california/id1548604447?i=1000610996688

[Velar Fricative]

May 3, 2023 17:10:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2023 16:54:56 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Substitute LA for SF and I am right there with you. I have lived in LA for 40 of my 48 years of life and only had my car broken into once. And it was because I left a big book of CDs on the passenger seat of my car. Smash and grab. Totally my bad for leaving a ton of CDs in plain sight.

Part of me also looks at the crime data and it doesn't seem any worse than when I was growing up. And violent crime is still down. I wonder if all the posts on NextDoor and other online outlets are making it more visible. So it's not that it's actually happening more. It's that people are more aware and talking about it more.

Yes, I’m very confused, even in this very post, people are saying crime is up, like car break ins, but are they really?

Since I moved a lot as a kid I can’t say I know my pulse on 1 specific city but most of my family grew up in Baltimore and we visited a lot. All my family had The Club on their cars, you definitely never left anything visible in your car and there was often talks about car break ins, thefts and car jackings. My friends car was broken in to in DC when we were in our late teens out at a club.

Wasn’t there some republic recently saying that crime in NYC was sky high but NYC clapped back saying the city that the Republican was in actually had a higher crime rate?

Is it the 24/7 news cycle contributing to this?
I certainly think there are many fucked up things in this country and people have so many mental health and social service needs, but is crime actually up?

I know Compstat has its issues but it’s the data we have in NYC - there is a clear uptick in particular crimes (like grand larceny) compared to previous years. www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

But then you look at the stats from 30 years ago and yeah, anyone who was around here 30+ years ago and thinks it’s less safe now is just plain wrong. The differences are sooooo stark. But the data from the last few years shows increases.

Also, I have to remind myself that I’m 41. Despite living in Manhattan in the 80s, I was a kid and I never saw anything or remembered anything criminal. And then the 90s came and Rudy got rid of the squeegee men and crime went way down (sarcasm obvs, lol). Many people much younger than me have never experienced a truly unsafe NYC*, so it probably does feel jarring to them that there are more brazen crimes happening (whether they see it or not). As for the older people, their memories are obviously very selective because they lived here when there were 2,000+ murders a year and Fox News and the NY Post are feeding them sensationalized BS about today’s murder rates.

*Not the case for people in all neighborhoods, obviously.

[starlily]

May 3, 2023 17:13:17 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It also feels like some of this is the MAGA media & their fear-based tactics amplifying everything that happens in the liberal, coastal areas. I heard the violent crime rates were worse in Kevin McCarthy's district (in OC?) than in downtown SF (Pelosi's district).

McCarthy's district is in central California, not OC. It's mostly rural farmland. I think Bakersfield is the largest city in his district.

[konapoppy]

People in these areas also spent a lot of time social distancing, and I think there is a general brittleness from the pandemic.

Anyway, I kept trying to get us to talk about things besides crime, but that’s clearly not going to happen!

[joy]

May 3, 2023 10:08:58 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

May 3, 2023 8:05:32 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

As someone who lives in Baltimore, I totally get it. We definitely have problems but so much of the narrative has serious racist undertones. There's also a strong feeling that we can criticize the city all we want but god forbid someone from outside does. Then we're gonna fight. It's kind of like family.

Some of my family (in Florida!!) assume I'm living in a war zone. . 

Public transportation in NYC has definitely struggled, but I think we are nearing pre-pandemic ridership numbers. I that is probably in part due to the fact that many people really have no other options. I've been riding the subway to and from work everyday for two years and I've rarely had issues. Honestly the worst thing about riding the subway recently is that Eric Adams decided that fare evasion is the biggest problem facing this city and the stations are now absolutely crawling with cops. I'm not worried about cops doing anything to me really, but the vibes are terrible and I worry that there might be some kind of altercation between police and riders. 

Thiiiiiis. Everyone assumes we bunker down in our house every night here in Philly. My neighborhood is full of kids and pizza trucks and strollers and dogs and ice cream trucks! It’s a deeply strange reality to be hearing someone explain their perception of where I live and then look out my window.

What I hear the most comments about right now are some of the public transit lines. The MFL is especially having lower ridership. I was actually nearly punched on that train and have avoided it since because blah. My buses are packed to the gills again, though.

[goldengirlz]

May 3, 2023 17:10:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2023 16:54:56 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Substitute LA for SF and I am right there with you. I have lived in LA for 40 of my 48 years of life and only had my car broken into once. And it was because I left a big book of CDs on the passenger seat of my car. Smash and grab. Totally my bad for leaving a ton of CDs in plain sight.

Part of me also looks at the crime data and it doesn't seem any worse than when I was growing up. And violent crime is still down. I wonder if all the posts on NextDoor and other online outlets are making it more visible. So it's not that it's actually happening more. It's that people are more aware and talking about it more.

Yes, I’m very confused, even in this very post, people are saying crime is up, like car break ins, but are they really?

Since I moved a lot as a kid I can’t say I know my pulse on 1 specific city but most of my family grew up in Baltimore and we visited a lot. All my family had The Club on their cars, you definitely never left anything visible in your car and there was often talks about car break ins, thefts and car jackings. My friends car was broken in to in DC when we were in our late teens out at a club.

Wasn’t there some republic recently saying that crime in NYC was sky high but NYC clapped back saying the city that the Republican was in actually had a higher crime rate?

Is it the 24/7 news cycle contributing to this?
I certainly think there are many fucked up things in this country and people have so many mental health and social service needs, but is crime actually up?

Objectively crime is down significantly compared with 30, 40 years ago. I grew up in New York when the lettered avenues in Alphabet City were said to have stood for “Assault, Battery, Carjacking and Death,” and you would never go to Washington Square Park unless you wanted to buy or do drugs. Not to mention the crime and gang activity in Williamsburg and Bed Stuy.

I think what’s changed is our expectation of safety. Cities really revitalized over the past 20 years when Millennials started flocking back to them. Then covid hit and people left, and what suddenly became more visible was the debris of gentrification. Like what sonrisa said above about people expecting that gentrification, and then being shocked and unsettled about cities not being shiny playgrounds for yuppies anymore.

[StrawberryBlondie]

May 3, 2023 17:10:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2023 16:54:56 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Substitute LA for SF and I am right there with you. I have lived in LA for 40 of my 48 years of life and only had my car broken into once. And it was because I left a big book of CDs on the passenger seat of my car. Smash and grab. Totally my bad for leaving a ton of CDs in plain sight.

Part of me also looks at the crime data and it doesn't seem any worse than when I was growing up. And violent crime is still down. I wonder if all the posts on NextDoor and other online outlets are making it more visible. So it's not that it's actually happening more. It's that people are more aware and talking about it more.

Yes, I’m very confused, even in this very post, people are saying crime is up, like car break ins, but are they really?

I know there was a period where carjackings, etc, were up quite a bit in Minneapolis... But they're down again. Basically all crime is pretty seriously down here. So the spike was kind of a blip but I know the media and local Republicans (especially outstate ones) really ran with it.

[wanderingback]

Well there are reports that a Black man was having mental health "issues" and was yelling at people about being hungry, but wasn’t physically assaulting people, yet a white military veteran took matters in to his own hands and put him in a choke hold that eventually killed him

That’s why I try to tread very lightly in these conversations and know that bias and racism is at play.
When I see unhoused people, or people using substances on the street I’m mostly just sad and think about what their life used to be, not "oh no, my precious tourism dollars are never coming back here!"

[meganew]

May 3, 2023 18:47:39 GMT -5 joy said:

May 3, 2023 10:08:58 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Some of my family (in Florida!!) assume I'm living in a war zone. . 

Public transportation in NYC has definitely struggled, but I think we are nearing pre-pandemic ridership numbers. I that is probably in part due to the fact that many people really have no other options. I've been riding the subway to and from work everyday for two years and I've rarely had issues. Honestly the worst thing about riding the subway recently is that Eric Adams decided that fare evasion is the biggest problem facing this city and the stations are now absolutely crawling with cops. I'm not worried about cops doing anything to me really, but the vibes are terrible and I worry that there might be some kind of altercation between police and riders. 

Thiiiiiis. Everyone assumes we bunker down in our house every night here in Philly. My neighborhood is full of kids and pizza trucks and strollers and dogs and ice cream trucks! It’s a deeply strange reality to be hearing someone explain their perception of where I live and then look out my window.

What I hear the most comments about right now are some of the public transit lines. The MFL is especially having lower ridership. I was actually nearly punched on that train and have avoided it since because blah. My buses are packed to the gills again, though.

This feels a little dismissive, though. Yes, this is your reality of our city- but it’s not the same city that a lot of our residents are experiencing. We had two years in a row of a record number of homicides, things are trending down right now and I hope to god it stays that way, because it has been terrifying for a lot of families living with that reality day to day.

[joy]

May 3, 2023 22:07:35 GMT -5 meganew said:

May 3, 2023 18:47:39 GMT -5 joy said:

Thiiiiiis. Everyone assumes we bunker down in our house every night here in Philly. My neighborhood is full of kids and pizza trucks and strollers and dogs and ice cream trucks! It’s a deeply strange reality to be hearing someone explain their perception of where I live and then look out my window.

What I hear the most comments about right now are some of the public transit lines. The MFL is especially having lower ridership. I was actually nearly punched on that train and have avoided it since because blah. My buses are packed to the gills again, though.

This feels a little dismissive, though. Yes, this is your reality of our city- but it’s not the same city that a lot of our residents are experiencing. We had two years in a row of a record number of homicides, things are trending down right now and I hope to god it stays that way, because it has been terrifying for a lot of families living with that reality day to day.

No, this is very fair. Apologies.

I was commenting on Rupert saying these are comments from her family. I get the same ones from my family, who have been to our house and know how much we love it here. For me, it’s like they cannot see the value in our community or any community that has the word “Philadelphia” in its address. We have many problems - as you outlined above - but we also have a lot of people who live here, have active lives here and want that both for their neighborhood and all the others, as well.

I may not have explained myself well and I’m willing to come back. I have to get to work!

[chedifuen]

I live in the Portland suburbs. I've very conflicted about the state of the city. Downtown is a ghost town and I will admit that I no longer like walking around down there. I realize it probably makes me the bad guy but it no longer feels like the city I grew up in. However, city neighborhoods are still vibrant and full of people.

Property and violent crime are up city wide but still lower than 80's levels. We had someone come on to our front porch in broad daylight and steal our shoes. Yes, that's a petty crime and we can afford to replace them but it still felt violating.

However, I'm still bullish on the city and will basically fight any outsider that says it's unsafe. My feelings are really complicated.

[Velar Fricative]

May 4, 2023 7:41:35 GMT -5 chedifuen said:

I live in the Portland suburbs. I've very conflicted about the state of the city. Downtown is a ghost town and I will admit that I no longer like walking around down there. I realize it probably makes me the bad guy but it no longer feels like the city I grew up in. However, city neighborhoods are still vibrant and full of people.

Property and violent crime are up city wide but still lower than 80's levels. We had someone come on to our front porch in broad daylight and steal our shoes. Yes, that's a petty crime and we can afford to replace them but it still felt violating.

However, I'm still bullish on the city and will basically fight any outsider that says it's unsafe. My feelings are really complicated.

That's very normal. Or just that I feel the same way. 

Hell, I live *in* NYC, but in the outer boroughs, and people here think Manhattan is some ghost town with crime on every corner and wear it as a badge of honor that they haven't even been to Manhattan in years. I hate when people shit all over a place they know nothing about. 

Also if it were a ghost town, I wouldn't have been constantly squeezing past slow tourists while wearing a walking boot yesterday when I was in Manhattan for work lol.

Buuuuuuuuuut there is the important caveat that it is also very privileged to be able to live in a big city and not be impacted by gun violence, gangs, drugs, etc. Most of that violence occurs in communities where people can't just up and leave. But, in my sites that are in such communities, residents come here for their safe haven so we feel obligated to keep our sites as safe and enjoyable as possible for everyone who walks in (including homeless people, the vast majority of whom never bother a soul while using our sites). Which often means calling police when every other de-escalation option is exhausted, temporarily barring visitors who commit crimes in our locations, etc. We don't ever enjoy doing that and don't want to feel like we're part of the problem (especially when many of our workers in these sites live in these communities too), but community residents want their communities safe too, including with an increased police presence even if there is bad history with the NYPD (some of these sites are walking distance to where Eric Garner was murdered, for reference). It's very complicated and I've had to learn to stand back and not dictate what I think particular communities need even if I see that racism in policing is alive and well. 

[underwaterrhymes]

I really think most crime can be attributed to two things: power or poverty.

I really wish we would stop investing so much time into things we know don’t work (over-policing, criminalizing homelessness, moving businesses out of high crime areas), which all only perpetuate the problem. Instead we should focus on providing equal opportunity to the things we all want and need (food, housing, healthcare, education, employment) and provide harsher consequences for those in power who commit crimes.

I love cities. It breaks my heart when people say they don’t feel safe in places I’ve loved. I feel much more vulnerable in rural communities than I do in big cities.

[konapoppy]

This article is from last year, and has some interesting insights on the unhoused community:

www.berkeleyside.org/2022/05/16/berkeley-homeless-population-2022

Local officials and homelessness workers said the regional numbers — though they present a dismal picture of nearly 10,000 homeless people in Alameda County, with over 5,000 people homeless in Oakland alone — are actually a sign that local and federal investment in housing retention and services during the pandemic were successful.

This included strong eviction protections, federal housing vouchers for homeless residents and state-supported programs that offered temporary housing, like Project Roomkey, and converted hotels into permanent housing, like Homekey.

Many people had expected to see a drastic increase in homelessness statistics due to COVID-19, but the increase was significantly lower than years prior, even with widely reported job loss, financial and housing insecurity. And during this time, over 70% of the 2,000 people who passed through Project Roomkey countywide ended up in permanent housing, according to Kerry Abbott, director of the county office of homeless care and coordination

[sonrisa]

May 4, 2023 7:56:37 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Buuuuuuuuuut there is the important caveat that it is also very privileged to be able to live in a big city and not be impacted by gun violence, gangs, drugs, etc.

 

guns and drugs are *not* a city thing. See the ‘gun in the backpack’ story in other thread.

You are more likely to die from a gun death in rural areas than cities.

The idea that either problem is related to cities (despite ample evidence otherwise) is a fox talking point.