Some background: I manage a team of 3 people. My direct boss is at my location as well. Since COVID, we primarily WFH. However, in the past year upper mgmt has required that we come to the office at least 1-2 days/week.
The summer months are very slow for us, especially from mid-July to late September, and everyone is tries to take PTO during this time. If I know that at least 2 other people are going to the office on the 2 days we tend to go in, I make sure I'm there as well.
The glitch: My boss only comes to the office 1 day/month; simply because he doesn't feel like coming in (he's pretty open about that with me and my team). He's local like the rest of us. On the weeks he does not come in his badge still gets swiped because his wife works for the same company (totally different function than mine but in my location). She comes in 1x/week with her team, and she brings his badge with her and uses it along with hers so that it appears he came in. Again, something he has not been shy about telling me. To me, that's unethical, but that's on him.
Also, I have no idea if anyone is even looking at logs of whose badges are being swiped and the frequency.
I came to the office today and I'm the only one here. No one on my team is on PTO this week, so I figured at least the 4 of us (me and the 3 that report to me) would be in today as we usually are on Tuesdays. I don't mind that they WFH, but I would have appreciated a heads up if they planned to WFH. I don't even care the reason. If I knew everyone was WFH, I would have as well.
Given that mgmt is being wishy-washy and inconsistent with their messaging about coming to the office vs WFH, do I just let it go and deal with it if for some reason it's brought to my attention? The work is getting done; there are no issues there. Really, there are no issues at all that I can think of.
Do I just sit tight and only address it if someone above me makes a stink about my team's lack of attendance?
If my boss's boss doesn't care, then why should I?
I would not address this. If I was on your team and you did bring it to the higher ups attention and I was forced to the office more I'd be super super annoyed.
I would not address this. If I was on your team and you did bring it to the higher ups attention and I was forced to the office more I'd be super super annoyed.
I would NEVER bring this up to someone above me - I hope that's not the message that came through on my OP. I was coming more from the place of, how do I handle the mixed messages. Do I suggest to my team that we try to make an effort to come in 1 day/week to stay below the radar, or do I just let it go and deal with it in the event it's actually brought up to me by someone above me.
Well I would 100% tattle on my boss anonymously if I could. That's effed up.
As for your team, I would maybe see about a check-in for an all hands day once a week? We have Wednesdays as our all hands and then each division picked another day for their own internal meetings. Maybe ask if it would be easier to have at least one consistent day. I know for me, managing that expectation would help everyone's schedule, including my own.
It sounds like your boss and your boss's boss don't think that 1-2 days in the office is necessary (which is supported by the fact that work is not being impacted by employees WFH), so either they need to go to upper management to say that the policy is unnecessary or even detrimental to retention and try to get the policy changed, or they KOKO just ignoring the policy. In the second case, I wouldn't hold my reports to a policy that people above me were not following. Being in the office for no real reason is a soapbox issue for me so I'm all about pushing back on it.
For your boss, I would 100% report anonymously to an ethics hotline. Both he and his wife are behaving unethically.
For your team, is there a real reason they need to be in office? If so, I would push it despite not having the backing of your boss. If not, if it's just to meet the new policy, I would let it go.
I would not address this. If I was on your team and you did bring it to the higher ups attention and I was forced to the office more I'd be super super annoyed.
I would NEVER bring this up to someone above me - I hope that's not the message that came through on my OP. I was coming more from the place of, how do I handle the mixed messages. Do I suggest to my team that we try to make an effort to come in 1 day/week to stay below the radar, or do I just let it go and deal with it in the event it's actually brought up to me by someone above me.
Ahh gotcha. I agree with what glw wrote so I'd just KOKO. Your boss having their wife swipe their card is really effed up though and they are an idiot for broadcasted that.
Is there any benefit to having the whole team come in at the same time? If so, could you all agree on one day each week that you’re all going to come in, then each independently come in on a second day of their choice each week (not enforced)?
It sounds like Tuesday was the unofficial agreed-upon day….maybe just make that official? If something comes up and they need to WFH one Tuesday (say, a child care issue) they let you know and arrange another day to come in. If they can’t or don’t want to come in or WFH on Tuesday, then they have to take PTO.
FWIW, I think it’s F’d up that your boss has his wife scan his badge. If it’s not a big deal to WFH, then he should just WFH and own it. But that he has his wife scan him in acknowledges that he knows he’s cheating the system.
I would not address this. If I was on your team and you did bring it to the higher ups attention and I was forced to the office more I'd be super super annoyed.
I would NEVER bring this up to someone above me - I hope that's not the message that came through on my OP. I was coming more from the place of, how do I handle the mixed messages. Do I suggest to my team that we try to make an effort to come in 1 day/week to stay below the radar, or do I just let it go and deal with it in the event it's actually brought up to me by someone above me.
To me, this is dependent on whether or not you care if they come in or not. If you don't, I think its OK to generally let it go, but also let them know that while you are OK with it, the company policy is still 1-2 days/week in-office, so they need to be prepared to adhere to that should management start enforcing it once summer/slow-time ends. In my experience, employees need to be reminded of what the official policies are so that there is no misunderstanding should they be called back to the office. I also think it's fine to ask that if they going to WFH on the typical in-office days, that they let you know. That's common sense to me, but I work for a small company and my teams generally all communicate stuff like this regularly. Perhaps each of them thought everyone else would still be in-office and it just ended up that coincidentally no one came in, so they didn't think they needed to mention it as a one-off?
On the other hand, if you do care and would like everyone to come in once a week again, that's a bit trickier. And you might need to have a discussion with your boss that it's difficult to get employees to come in if management and others aren't. This is a big problem with RTO policies, IMO. Leaders need to lead by example and a lot...don't.
I would let it go if you don't want more people on your team to leave. It is stupid to force people to come into the office when they don't need to. It is infuriating as an employee to be forced into the office when management isn't coming in. Like rage inducing. If you don't want people to quit, don't rock the boat.
I'm in a similar situation to your employees. My entire team is remote. The positions turned over during Covid and they hired people out of state, including all my bosses. I had a WFH agreement and then upper management decided everyone needed to come back to office. There is no one for me to actually interact with in the office, but they denied my request to WFH. I was going in for a bit but it was pointless, so I stopped. If my boss tells me I need to go in, I will quit.
ETA: Your boss is an idiot. I'd be *so* pissed about what he and his wife are doing.
I don't have answers. I'm dying inside at the idea of having someone else pretend I'm someplace I'm not for work, like your boss having his wife swipe his badge. 1. Lying! About something so basic! Wtf! 2. Like IT can't figure out in half a second where your computer REALLY is. So dumb.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Aug 29, 2023 9:26:24 GMT -5
Oh, well, what your boss is doing is an ethics violation where I work and I would be obligated to report it.
As far as your team goes, I think I would work with them to find an appropriate WFH or hybrid schedule that works for all of them. In my office, WFH is allowed only on an ad hoc basis, but there are other positions that are able to have set days as WFH or be totally WFH. I would just have them get on a home/office schedule that makes sense for them, just so you know where everyone is going to be, with the door open for ad hoc WFH in case something pops up on a day someone is supposed to be in the office.
Check in with them every couple of months once the schedule is established to see if it’s still working for them and/or if you notice a lapse in productivity.
ETA: in case it isn’t clear, I’m not for pushing everyone back in the office. I’m for setting the in-office schedule that works for everyone. Maybe the whole team does need to be there together for a day during the week. Maybe it makes sense on a customer service level to have 2 folks together and the other 2 at home on any given day. Maybe Sue’s job works better as a fully remote position, but Jamie needs to be on campus 2-3 days a week for their responsibilities. I’d just let them guide me on what they need.
I would NEVER bring this up to someone above me - I hope that's not the message that came through on my OP. I was coming more from the place of, how do I handle the mixed messages. Do I suggest to my team that we try to make an effort to come in 1 day/week to stay below the radar, or do I just let it go and deal with it in the event it's actually brought up to me by someone above me.
To me, this is dependent on whether or not you care if they come in or not. If you don't, I think its OK to generally let it go, but also let them know that while you are OK with it, the company policy is still 1-2 days/week in-office, so they need to be prepared to adhere to that should management start enforcing it once summer/slow-time ends. In my experience, employees need to be reminded of what the official policies are so that there is no misunderstanding should they be called back to the office. I also think it's fine to ask that if they going to WFH on the typical in-office days, that they let you know. That's common sense to me, but I work for a small company and my teams generally all communicate stuff like this regularly. Perhaps each of them thought everyone else would still be in-office and it just ended up that coincidentally no one came in, so they didn't think they needed to mention it as a one-off?
On the other hand, if you do care and would like everyone to come in once a week again, that's a bit trickier. And you might need to have a discussion with your boss that it's difficult to get employees to come in if management and others aren't. This is a big problem with RTO policies, IMO. Leaders need to lead by example and a lot...don't.
There is no real reason for us to be in IMO, other than upper mgmt saying so. We do just fine WFH. We have regular team calls every Mon/Thurs as a check in. Your wording of the bolded paragraph is exactly how I feel, but I couldn't put it into words as concisely. The only time I can think of that we should all come in is in the event that our counterparts from the other offices are coming to our location, which we always know about several months in advance. Maybe 2x per year.
If you people are only required to be in 1-2 days a week, it wouldn't occur to me to care that they weren't there on a random Tuesday. Are they supposed to come in the same day every week or something? Have you asked them to tell you what day(s) they plan to come in? If the answers to these are no, I don't think there is anything for you to address.
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
If you people are only required to be in 1-2 days a week, it wouldn't occur to me to care that they weren't there on a random Tuesday. Are they supposed to come in the same day every week or something? Have you asked them to tell you what day(s) they plan to come in? If the answers to these are no, I don't think there is anything for you to address.
Yes, last year we agreed on at a minimum that Tuesday would be "our day".
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
It's all rumor, but I've heard that it's being logged and reported. I have no idea how true that is.
He's home, he just doesn't want to come to the office.
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
My company was keeping track of badge swipes during Covid, but more as a way to make sure people weren't coming in when they weren't supposed to be! So I know they can do it. The only reason I was going in the first few months was because I was worried they'd know I wasn't based on badge swipes. But that's some serious micromanaging if they are doing it, which again, feels really shitty as an employee.
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
My company was keeping track of badge swipes during Covid, but more as a way to make sure people weren't coming in when they weren't supposed to be! So I know they can do it. The only reason I was going in the first few months was because I was worried they'd know I wasn't based on badge swipes. But that's some serious micromanaging if they are doing it, which again, feels really shitty as an employee.
Agreed. I am sure most places CAN, but what a waste of time and how awkward if they do. Employees don't work harder if they think big brother is watching, they just become less motivated to do more than the bare minimum.
If you people are only required to be in 1-2 days a week, it wouldn't occur to me to care that they weren't there on a random Tuesday. Are they supposed to come in the same day every week or something? Have you asked them to tell you what day(s) they plan to come in? If the answers to these are no, I don't think there is anything for you to address.
Yes, last year we agreed on at a minimum that Tuesday would be "our day".
I can't tell if you think there's a value to having your team in the office together or not. It seems like you think the amount that the company is "requiring" is too much, but since you are trying to go in on the same day as your employees, is it because there's something gained by this? If there is, I think it's fine to communicate that to your team, and explain why ... I think people tend to respond better to policies when there's a clear reason why. I agree that reminding them of official policies makes sense but if your immediate bosses aren't enforcing it, it's okay for you not to as well. And I also think it's fine to ask them to send you a quick message to let you know if they will be WFH on a day they typically come in. Maybe it's something like telling them, "Official policy is that you need to come into the office 1-2x a week, so I recommend you have a regular schedule of days you will come into the office. I am not personally concerned about where you work as long as you are getting your work done, but ask that you tell me what your regular in-office days will be, and let me know if you will not be WFH on one of your typical in-office days."
I think your boss is dumb for having his wife swipe his badge in, but I'm surprised at the number of people who are saying they'd report it. I'd definitely stay out of it - it doesn't really have anything to do with you.
I'd let it go today but definitely speak with your team (under you) and clarify expectations and a better schedule of WFH/in office expectations and notifications.
My office implemented a 3 day minimum in office workweek. I arranged to work 2 days in the office (made a proposal and it was approved) so that's what I work. No one is following the mandatory days but its truly not my business (no one under me). Its annoying when I'm there alone because I feel like I wouldn't need to be there either BUT its what I had approved so....I deal
We have a flexible work from home schedule at my office. I can wfh any 2 days a week. No one keeps track and I often find myself all alone in the office. I would be SHOCKED if they were checking swipe cards.
It is company policy and my boss reminds us to record “working elsewhere” on our Outlook calendar. We call it “working remotely” on our calendar. It shows the time as “free” but highlights the day with small dots. So, my boss, if motivated can see when people plan to be in the office or working remotely. I recommend that you ask your team to do that. It’s easy and can change as often as they wish.
I would not enforce this policy since it is not enforced by the department or organization. I would probably send out semi-regular policy reminders to cover my ass. You can send reminders without enforcing it.
I do follow the 3 days in-office requirement because it’s convenient for me and not hard for me to follow. If I needed more time for WFH, I would ask for it.
I would not report a boss that I want to continue working for. ESPECIALLY if it’s only a rumor and I have no personal evidence. The extra swipe of the security card by the wife is a security violation and I would be required to report that (maybe based on a rumor, maybe not)- I would only if I thought it was part of a “security test” which is common at my location. Doesn’t seem like it is if they have been doing that for a long time.
wildrice, mine is, which surprises me a bit. For a big company, it's a relatively employee-friendly place, but the return-to-office stuff has people worked up in ways you wouldn't believe.
I've always known they CAN check badge data, but I figured nobody bothered. Last week, I was speaking with a colleague in another department, and she mentioned offhand, "When we checked the badge data, it was worse than we thought." Oof. Just because of that, I schlepped into the office a day last week, while my boss and his boss were on vacation. I had no in-person meetings, it took 45 minutes each way, and I waved to one person while I was there. RIDICULOUS.
I would ask my team to report if they won't be in on Tuesdays. I think at minimum you should be aware if the whole team isn't going to be together on your in-person day. And then I wouldn't push anything after that.
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
When they have reason to doubt those employees are where they are saying they are, absofuckinglutely.
Post by litskispeciality on Aug 29, 2023 10:02:23 GMT -5
I agree the boss's wife swiping the badge is a big flag, and wonder if/when they'll both get caught?
OP are you being asked to report when your team is coming in? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there's pressure put on you or if this is a(n understandable) complaint that you're there and no one else is? If no one is holding you accountable other than the company policy, I might risk reminding the team (in writing) of the agreed upon work in office or team policy, and giving them 2 - 3 weeks notice to comply as it sounds like not everyone has made arrangements to come in on said day. If they still don't follow I don't think I'd push until upper management complained. You'd have your direction to your team to back you up, but also be able to say "no one checked my team's attendance, and they got their work done, so I didn't push the issue". Then reinstate work in office at whatever cadence is required by the company.
As many have said, making employees come in just to come in is going to hurt retention. From the employee perspective I'd be complaining behind my managers back that I *have* to go in, just to sit at a desk, when I could be more productive at home, especially if I go in and there are no managers. If you push your team going back in office I'd make sure you have something like company policy and management pressure as your reason, as I don't want you being the bad person here.
Also thinking about it more, if the upper management isn't going in, is anyone checking your attendance? I guess I'd be afraid to get in trouble so I'd go in and be pissed about it, but it seems like you shouldn't have too if no one is there to check attendance outside of swiping your badge.
The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?
When they have reason to doubt those employees are where they are saying they are, absofuckinglutely.
Yep. We’re not allowed to use security cameras as proof that someone was where they say they are in the event of a discipline issue, but we can sure as hell use badge swipes and where they punched in (at home, at the central office, at a satellite office, etc.)