Work Situation: Need Some Perspective

[pixy0stix]

I'd email the team and remind them that Tuesday is an office day, and if they planned to work from home to send you a head's up. There's not an office job that I have ever worked that I haven't had to notify my boss if I'm not going to be somewhere where I'm expected. I don't think it's unreasonable to remind them to communicate.

[sonrisa]

There are two issues here:
1) The ambiguous, unenforced "1-2 days a week" policy your boss and his superior are ignoring.
2) Communication about when people will be in the office

I would definitely address the second. It's reasonable to ask your team to let you know each week which days they plan to be in, and update you if something comes up to change those plans to work at home. (Or to ask that the default day return to Tuesday and people let you know if that won't work for a given week).


On the first, I'd want to send out an email reminding people of the official policy. I wouldn't put anything in that email about you not personally caring if they come in. That sends a mixed message. You can say that in person if it feels appropriate but don't put it in writing. (If and when the hammer comes down on your superior, they might scrutinize your team to see if you are following his questionable lead.). If you want to soften it, you can thank them for their hard work and timeliness or otherwise compliment their productivity in the same email. That takes the edge off without undermining the message.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2023 10:02:23 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

I agree the boss's wife swiping the badge is a big flag, and wonder if/when they'll both get caught?

OP are you being asked to report when your team is coming in? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there's pressure put on you or if this is a(n understandable) complaint that you're there and no one else is? If no one is holding you accountable other than the company policy, I might risk reminding the team (in writing) of the agreed upon work in office or team policy, and giving them 2 - 3 weeks notice to comply as it sounds like not everyone has made arrangements to come in on said day. If they still don't follow I don't think I'd push until upper management complained. You'd have your direction to your team to back you up, but also be able to say "no one checked my team's attendance, and they got their work done, so I didn't push the issue". Then reinstate work in office at whatever cadence is required by the company.

As many have said, making employees come in just to come in is going to hurt retention. From the employee perspective I'd be complaining behind my managers back that I *have* to go in, just to sit at a desk, when I could be more productive at home, especially if I go in and there are no managers. If you push your team going back in office I'd make sure you have something like company policy and management pressure as your reason, as I don't want you being the bad person here.

Also thinking about it more, if the upper management isn't going in, is anyone checking your attendance? I guess I'd be afraid to get in trouble so I'd go in and be pissed about it, but it seems like you shouldn't have too if no one is there to check attendance outside of swiping your badge.

I have not been asked to report anything to anyone. Because there is a RTO policy in place (from over a year ago) I'm trying to ensure we show up just enough as to not draw attention - and on the 1 day we all agreed on (actually, my team chose the day they preferred, it doesn't matter to me). I'm such a rule-follower, and I know that's MY problem, and I'm worrying about possible repercussions (that have yet to and may not even occur).

I'm sure I'm stressing more about it than I should be. But I really appreciate everyone's opinions and suggestions to help talk me down. 

[meanie]

I wouldn't say anything and would keep going in but not base it as much on what others are doing. If you want to go in the 1 - 2 days to meet company requirements then keep doing that, I get that you are trying to align your in office days with your team members but just do whatever is best for you personally.

Is your commute short enough to go home mid-day when no one is in the office?

[wanderingback]

Aug 29, 2023 9:31:29 GMT -5 @psugrad said:

Aug 29, 2023 9:29:15 GMT -5 hermione said:

If you people are only required to be in 1-2 days a week, it wouldn't occur to me to care that they weren't there on a random Tuesday. Are they supposed to come in the same day every week or something? Have you asked them to tell you what day(s) they plan to come in? If the answers to these are no, I don't think there is anything for you to address.

Yes, last year we agreed on at a minimum that Tuesday would be "our day".

Do you need them to come in? Was this just a 1-time thing?

If it’s not necessary they come in and it’s not happening all the time then of course I wouldn’t say anything. I think it’s ok to ask them to give you a heads up if they aren’t coming in.

If they stop coming in all together and it’s technically a requirement of your company and someone says something to you, then I would address it then.

[k3am]

Aug 29, 2023 9:31:13 GMT -5 wildrice said:

The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?

DH works for one of the FAANG companies.. and they've had difficulty getting people back into the office. Their official 3 days / week policy goes into effect on 9/1/23, and they've all been informed it will be tracked based on badge swipes. And DH has a clear mandate on what happens if people aren't badging in that he needs to report and manage. They tried being less burdensome with the requirements (originally a vague "50% of the time in the office, you chose what counts as 50%") and it wasn't effective. So now they have to formalize, days in the office are assigned by team, and badge swipes is a relatively easy way to manage it.

Security at DH's company is VERY good, so I doubt anyone would get away with swiping an extra person's badge. As a manager, DH has been cognizant of the fact that he needs to lead by example, so he's been there 3 days/week since they announced the policy vs. waiting for the go live date. 

[waverly]

Aug 29, 2023 10:41:04 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

There are two issues here:
1) The ambiguous, unenforced "1-2 days a week" policy your boss and his superior are ignoring.
2) Communication about when people will be in the office

I would definitely address the second. It's reasonable to ask your team to let you know each week which days they plan to be in, and update you if something comes up to change those plans to work at home. (Or to ask that the default day return to Tuesday and people let you know if that won't work for a given week).


On the first, I'd want to send out an email reminding people of the official policy. I wouldn't put anything in that email about you not personally caring if they come in. That sends a mixed message. You can say that in person if it feels appropriate but don't put it in writing. (If and when the hammer comes down on your superior, they might scrutinize your team to see if you are following his questionable lead.). If you want to soften it, you can thank them for their hard work and timeliness or otherwise compliment their productivity in the same email. That takes the edge off without undermining the message.

I agree that I would not put anything in writing that contradicts the official policy.  

[donutsmakemegonuts]

If everyone on your team agreed to come in to work on Tuesdays, then they should be doing so unless they notify you otherwise, right?? I don't think it matters what other people are doing i.e. upper management. I don't think it matters if your work can be done remotely either. You all agreed to this. It was an expectation you all discussed and unless there was some other discussion not to do it, then they should be. Maybe they need a reminder? I would be irritated if I showed up on an agreed upon day at the office and no one else was there. Especially if you didn't know why.

The badge swiping thing is just wrong.

[wildrice]

Aug 29, 2023 11:08:59 GMT -5 k3am said:

Aug 29, 2023 9:31:13 GMT -5 wildrice said:

The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?

DH works for one of the FAANG companies.. and they've had difficulty getting people back into the office. Their official 3 days / week policy goes into effect on 9/1/23, and they've all been informed it will be tracked based on badge swipes. And DH has a clear mandate on what happens if people aren't badging in that he needs to report and manage. They tried being less burdensome with the requirements (originally a vague "50% of the time in the office, you chose what counts as 50%") and it wasn't effective. So now they have to formalize, days in the office are assigned by team, and badge swipes is a relatively easy way to manage it.

Security at DH's company is VERY good, so I doubt anyone would get away with swiping an extra person's badge. As a manager, DH has been cognizant of the fact that he needs to lead by example, so he's been there 3 days/week since they announced the policy vs. waiting for the go live date. 

I'll concede that it's possible! It just seems to me like a solution without a problem. If badge swiping is the only way they can tell whether or not people are coming in, do they really need to come in? You'd think there would be other performance/productivity related things that would show up if not coming into the office was detrimental to getting work done. Or you know, the people who they supposedly have to be in the office to see face to face would notice their absence! If there is literally no other observable way to tell where people are beyond tracking their badge swipes, what is the point? 

I hate rules that have no reason behind them! ETA: and beyond my personal opinion, there are good reasons why organizations should not be enforcing arbitrary rules, largely related to things like morale.

[goldengirlz]

Aug 29, 2023 9:37:21 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Aug 29, 2023 9:34:49 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

My company was keeping track of badge swipes during Covid, but more as a way to make sure people weren't coming in when they weren't supposed to be!  So I know they can do it.  The only reason I was going in the first few months was because I was worried they'd know I wasn't based on badge swipes.  But that's some serious micromanaging if they are doing it, which again, feels really shitty as an employee.

Agreed. I am sure most places CAN, but what a waste of time and how awkward if they do. Employees don't work harder if they think big brother is watching, they just become less motivated to do more than the bare minimum.

My company also tracks (and sometimes uses) the data. For example, during covid, they were able email the people who came in on a given day if there was a positive case in the office. I’ve definitely gotten the “because you were in the office last Friday” emails.*

My guess is that these large companies aren’t going to audit the records that granularly — but if they need an excuse to PIP someone, they’ll be able to pull the data.

But to answer the OP, I wouldn’t enforce policies that no one cares about, especially when a higher up is openly bragging about ethics violations. I couldn’t think of a faster way to breed resentment.

*ETA: I doubt it’s done manually. The added labor cost is probably very little. We already spend a ton on security and it really ramped up after the YouTube shooting.

[TR]

Aug 29, 2023 11:25:10 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Aug 29, 2023 11:08:59 GMT -5 k3am said:

DH works for one of the FAANG companies.. and they've had difficulty getting people back into the office. Their official 3 days / week policy goes into effect on 9/1/23, and they've all been informed it will be tracked based on badge swipes. And DH has a clear mandate on what happens if people aren't badging in that he needs to report and manage. They tried being less burdensome with the requirements (originally a vague "50% of the time in the office, you chose what counts as 50%") and it wasn't effective. So now they have to formalize, days in the office are assigned by team, and badge swipes is a relatively easy way to manage it.

Security at DH's company is VERY good, so I doubt anyone would get away with swiping an extra person's badge. As a manager, DH has been cognizant of the fact that he needs to lead by example, so he's been there 3 days/week since they announced the policy vs. waiting for the go live date. 

I'll concede that it's possible! It just seems to me like a solution without a problem. If badge swiping is the only way they can tell whether or not people are coming in, do they really need to come in? You'd think there would be other performance/productivity related things that would show up if not coming into the office was detrimental to getting work done. Or you know, the people who they supposedly have to be in the office to see face to face would notice their absence! If there is literally no other observable way to tell where people are beyond tracking their badge swipes, what is the point? 

I hate rules that have no reason behind them! ETA: and beyond my personal opinion, there are good reasons why organizations should not be enforcing arbitrary rules, largely related to things like morale.

BINGO lol

Although in my company's case I believe it's that a) they have long-term leases and don't want that office space "wasted and b) they're hoping people will quit so they don't have to do layoffs. Good times.

[circa1978]

Well, I am the only person in my building right now, so bear that in mind, as I work with some very WFH-loving folks, and I also prefer to work from home most days. I don't care where or how people work - my team members or my boss - as long as work is getting done.

If you have concerns (valid since there is an agreement in place that is coming from higher than you) I'd schedule an in-person team touch-base that day that should be a meaningful chance to work on team projects and not just an exercise. Another option is to at the beginning of the month have a general reminder that everyone is required to work at least X amount of days in the office and if you need to change the day of your agreement, send you the renewed contract, otherwise you will expect to see them those days.

What I fail to see the point of is companies mandating time in the office for no reason at all, and I think a lot of the workforce agrees. If there is a reason to be together, people generally get it. If the reason is, "corporate says we have to be here," a lot of folks generally call bullshit because it IS bullshit. FWIW, this is something I'm studying as part of my graduate program and autonomy is a driver of worker "engagement" (itself a problematic buzzword that doesn't really have an agreed-upon definition) and can help with burnout.

[sarahsays]

I would let it go. I have a hybrid schedule but my boss doesn't actually care what days I'm in the office, nor does she expect me to tell her unless I need coverage for something.

I would be annoyed if I was doing a good job and my boss micromanaged me by pointing out I wasn't in the office on a day I didn't need to be there.

[TR]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to communicate whether they'll be in office or WFH, especially considering if affects your decision whether to go in or not.

[litskispeciality]

I think wildrice and TR are spot on. It seems like a waste of billable hours to track badging unless you're truly worried about an employees performance, but that should be easy enough to track outside of a badge. Someone could badge in (or have someone else swipe their badge), then sit somewhere else, even at their desk for 2 hours doing literally nothing, and yet the person checking the badge doesn't catch it because employee badged in.

Anyway, sounds like OP has a good plan of attack to remind the team that they agreed to a specific day in-office and have to honor that commitment, or agree as a team to change their in office day. Good to place that reminder in writing to the team so OP can cover their own self that it was communicated, and use it if necessary if an employee doesn't follow suit. Just obviously be careful what constitutes not having to come in, because I can see that going south real quick.

I'm still team don't make me come in just to sit at a desk, but agree it's not fair to have some people come in when the rules say everyone has to be there.

ETA: I think the issue is that OP had told their team a while back they all had to go in to the office on the same day. It reads that the team agreed Tuesday's were the best day for everyone. Over time the employees have taken advantage of WFH on their in-office days, and the issue hasn't been strictly enforced. Moving forward there needs to be a clear EVERYONE has to come in on a specific day, or however frequent management dictates, unless otherwise approved by a manager (OP). Again it seems fair to give everyone at least a week or two notice to get back on track with this if the commitment wasn't strictly enforced. Perhaps after Labor Day week everyone has to go in on a specific day, or talk to OP privately about an accommodation. However if everyone doesn't have to come in, then no one should be required to go in, including OP.

[Roc A Bee]

If you are worried about not replacing folks if they quit, then I wouldn’t push this too hard.

I think it’s fine to reach out and ask what their schedule is. But beyond that, who cares.

[Poppy]

Aug 29, 2023 10:51:33 GMT -5 meanie said:

I wouldn't say anything and would keep going in but not base it as much on what others are doing. If you want to go in the 1 - 2 days to meet company requirements then keep doing that, I get that you are trying to align your in office days with your team members but just do whatever is best for you personally.

Yes, this.

It sounds to me like you only want to push it because you're annoyed you're the only one actually going in. I think that reminding people that you expect them in on Tuesdays is only going to irritate them, unless there is an actual benefit to them being there. I'm pretty sure everyone knows the policy, and it's on each person to follow it. It's good that *you* are leading by example, but people are going to be real sour if you push them to come in when the higher ups won't.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2023 12:03:49 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Aug 29, 2023 10:51:33 GMT -5 meanie said:

I wouldn't say anything and would keep going in but not base it as much on what others are doing. If you want to go in the 1 - 2 days to meet company requirements then keep doing that, I get that you are trying to align your in office days with your team members but just do whatever is best for you personally.

Yes, this.

It sounds to me like you only want to push it because you're annoyed you're the only one actually going in. I think that reminding people that you expect them in on Tuesdays is only going to irritate them, unless there is an actual benefit to them being there. I'm pretty sure everyone knows the policy, and it's on each person to follow it. It's good that *you* are leading by example, but people are going to be real sour if you push them to come in when the higher ups won't.

She's their boss. It's her literal job to make sure they come in when they're supposed to be there. She's not a coworker. She's not an office friend. They are her direct reports.

This is weird.

[felicity]

Let it all go. I wouldn't report your manager unless you want them fired. I wouldn't push it with your employees unless you want them to get resentful and maybe leave, or unless you have an actual good reason they need to be there.

Don't be part of the arbitrary days in office problem unless you start getting into trouble for it. What's the worst that would happen if someone noticed your team wasn't coming in? A warning? Let that happen first.

[laterz]

Aug 29, 2023 9:31:13 GMT -5 wildrice said:

The badge swiping thing is weird. Why do they even think someone is checking those records? Where is he all day that nobody will be able to tell that he's NOT where his badge says he is? Are there really companies that keep track of their professional employees by badge swipes?

    Absolutely.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2023 12:18:23 GMT -5 felicity said:

Let it all go. I wouldn't report your manager unless you want them fired. I wouldn't push it with your employees unless you want them to get resentful and maybe leave, or unless you have an actual good reason they need to be there.

Don't be part of the arbitrary days in office problem unless you start getting into trouble for it. What's the worst that would happen if someone noticed your team wasn't coming in? A warning? Let that happen first.

You want HER to get a warning?

Again, wtf. LOL!

[pixy0stix]

I didn't touch anything with the higher ups, because it doesn't really matter. The company and management has said that they want employees in the office for a certain amount of days. It is her job to manage that with her employees. It doesn't matter what the higher ups are doing.

That being said, perhaps it's time to have a meeting with peers and/or boss to change the expectation of office days if no one is 1) enforcing, and 2) actually going in.

[ellipses84]

Although I’m really WTF about your boss doing that and bragging about it (which could get both him and his wife fired), I’m team MYOB unless there’s other reasons you think he should be fired. Or if you have a really guilty conscience and have a way to send an anonymous message you could report it without naming names and they can decide if they want to figure it out (say people are abusing wfh and having others scan their keycards).

Most companies rely on managers to set what is acceptable for their own teams as long as the work is being done well. While official policy that is constantly changing about WFH says one thing, there may have been discussions with upper management about flexibility within the policy for specific teams or groups. Not saying it’s right, but that’s been my experience in management in the corporate world, especially at large organizations. Maybe it’s my stick it to the man side coming out since I think it’s ridiculous to force people to come to empty offices, but anything you do will only make the WFH flexibility worse. From your management perspective I’d probably send an email to your team asking them to communicate so there’s not one person coming to the office alone (this could be a weekly email with days in office and an expectation that they’ll contact you if there are last minute changes like calling in sick. Keep it on a team level but document expectations and follow through in case it causes issues later. I’d allow some flexibility in summer and at the start of the school year if people have kids. There maybe be a lot of weeks where there’s valid reasons to have less in office days than the policy wants you to (short weeks due to holiday / vacations / medical appts).

I’ve worked with the facilities side of a lot of companies and depending on the setup they may not even be able to check it. Some systems can track people but are rarely checked unless there’s a security breach or problem with someone lying about working. These tracking systems are typically used when there’s some high security requirement (like for legal or Gov’t reasons). Checking to make sure people are physically in office is probably more common post covid. Some systems can only detect that a card was used and the time, which they may have to contact their security company to find out. Security cameras are relied on more if they need to find out who entered at the time a card was scanned.

Eta: As someone else pointed out, a computer is a way easier way to track where someone is.

[cville]

"Wait until someone gets caught or dinged for it" is a weird take when this is a boss asking what to do about her direct reports.

The policy may be stupid and poorly enforced but that means you should address the policy and whether it can be modified or clarified. Not just ignore it, sowing further confusion and inviting potential future unwarranted discipline.

[tacokick]

I’d be a little worried about any blow back if it came out he was faking the swipe and you knew. Like is he pretending in conversation that he’s there and seeing you/others in person? Or is the wife just swiping and leaving it at that?

I don’t know, I’ve only worked in person places (as has my husband) where knowing who was on site was pretty important for safety and/or security reasons and people would get fired for this. I wouldn’t want to be in the middle of that at all.

He must think there is a chance someone is checking the logs or he wouldn’t bother IMO.

I’d also worry about there being some issue down the line if you don’t get your direct reports to come in as required. Maybe they will now that school is back and “summer” is over and it will solve itself?

ETA I can’t follow if they are all supposed to be there Tuesdays or if they can come in any day.

[TR]

Aug 29, 2023 12:40:10 GMT -5 cville said:

"Wait until someone gets caught or dinged for it" is a weird take when this is a boss asking what to do about her direct reports.

The policy may be stupid and poorly enforced but that means you should address the policy and whether it can be modified or clarified. Not just ignore it, sowing further confusion and inviting potential future unwarranted discipline.

This. Also, yes, policies can be dumb, but enforcing shit like that is kind of what you sign up for as a non-C-suite manager. When some managers let things go and others don't, the employees start comparing notes and it really sucks.

[wise_rita]

Without reading any other responses I say keep quiet and slack on going in just like everyone else.

Personally I'd push it to see as far as you can take it. Go in once a fortnight for a few months and see if the higher ups pick up on it.

Before ever going in I'd arrange with your team beforehand to make sure you're not the lone one there again.

And keep hush about your boss's super sneaky evil genius fake card swiping.

[bex1973]

Aug 29, 2023 12:17:24 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 29, 2023 12:03:49 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Yes, this.

It sounds to me like you only want to push it because you're annoyed you're the only one actually going in. I think that reminding people that you expect them in on Tuesdays is only going to irritate them, unless there is an actual benefit to them being there. I'm pretty sure everyone knows the policy, and it's on each person to follow it. It's good that *you* are leading by example, but people are going to be real sour if you push them to come in when the higher ups won't.

She's their boss. It's her literal job to make sure they come in when they're supposed to be there. She's not a coworker. She's not an office friend. They are her direct reports.

This is weird.

Agreed. I can't imagine not knowing what my direct reports are doing and also not having some sort of communication expectation. 

I think it sounds like time for a conversation about the expectations. Maybe that day isn't the best anymore and the team could propose a change but even still expectations are expectations.

[pinkplasticdoll]

Your boss is making a seriously terrible choice and then being open about it is even dumber. My company was able to pull badge swipe report immediately when we had emergencies to ensure that everyone at the facility was counted for (smallish company and manufacturing) so if they have this capability and you ever have an emergency your boss will be found out.

Also, for the people questioning badge swipes well this is exactly what happened at one the sites last year, Upper management got wind that the site was like 75% empty and they pulled badge swipe reports which let them know that a very large majority of the site was not returning to site the 2-3 times a week as rolled out and expected so they then made a back to site mandate for everyone fulltime.

[wise_rita]

Aug 29, 2023 12:55:00 GMT -5 pinkplasticdoll said:

Also, for the people questioning badge swipes well this is exactly what happened at one the sites last year, Upper management got wind that the site was like 75% empty and they pulled badge swipe reports which let them know that a very large majority of the site was not returning to site the 2-3 times a week as rolled out and expected so they then made a back to site mandate for everyone fulltime.

What's the turnover after that?

I'm not nearly as bothered by the card swipe thing as everyone else. He's the boss who COULD enforce office facetime but is displaying a culture of not coming in despite a "mandate". I'd much prefer that to the BS pinkplasticdoll's company is pulling.