Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (@ mentions)

[AJL]

Nov 24, 2023 11:02:09 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I am glued to the TV. So many prayers for the hostages from both sides for a peaceful transfer that might lead to more and a peaceful transfer to humanitarian aid to Gazans.

There are only hostages on one side, but I hear you.

[sproctopus]

Nov 24, 2023 14:08:39 GMT -5 AJL said:

Nov 24, 2023 11:02:09 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I am glued to the TV. So many prayers for the hostages from both sides for a peaceful transfer that might lead to more and a peaceful transfer to humanitarian aid to Gazans.

There are only hostages on one side, but I hear you.

What is on the other side?

[AJL]

Nov 24, 2023 19:52:22 GMT -5 sproctopus said:

Nov 24, 2023 14:08:39 GMT -5 AJL said:

There are only hostages on one side, but I hear you.

What is on the other side?

You tell me.

[sproctopus]

Nov 24, 2023 20:03:16 GMT -5 AJL said:

Nov 24, 2023 19:52:22 GMT -5 sproctopus said:

What is on the other side?

You tell me.

Hostages.

[laurack]

It is Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners, who were being held hostage for petty crime or things that shouldn’t be a crime at all such as exercising free speech. So really on both sides innocent people were held hostage and are now being released back to their families which is a good thing, a shred of hope in this bleak and horrible situation.

[wanderingback]

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Here’s a good article from Aljazeera that explains about a the Palestinian prisoners* in Israeli and the conditions they’re subjected to (unfortunately for kids as well).
I use the word prisoners since that’s what was in the title.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

[AJL]

Nov 24, 2023 21:03:28 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

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Here’s a good article from Aljazeera that explains about a the Palestinian prisoners* in Israeli and the conditions they’re subjected to (unfortunately for kids as well).
I use the word prisoners since that’s what was in the title.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

Israel has treated its detainees very badly in many cases. Looking at the article, I wonder why Israel hasn't chosen to release the 37 journalists and all children under the age of 18 in exchange for the hostages Hamas has (and not just the people that were captured on Oct. 7. Hamas has other detainees. I'll try to find the source.) I wonder how they came up with their initial list to begin with. 

[laurack]

Nov 24, 2023 21:03:28 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

@@@@

Here’s a good article from Aljazeera that explains about a the Palestinian prisoners* in Israeli and the conditions they’re subjected to (unfortunately for kids as well).
I use the word prisoners since that’s what was in the title.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

This is heartbreaking.

“The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone-throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children,”

[fryjack2]

@@@from the article:

“Of those arrested after October 7, 37 are journalists. Palestinian prisoner support and human rights association Addameer reported that most of these journalists were subjected to administrative detention, which means they are held indefinitely behind bars without facing trial or charges.

Addameer also reported that the detainees are subjected to physical violence and medical negligence in prisons.

Children in Israeli detention often suffer physical, psychological and sexual abuse, and some are deprived of food, water and sleep, according to Save the Children.”

The arrests and state of detainees is common knowledge for all Palestinians. I’m glad the rest of the world-those open to learning it- are becoming aware of the unethical practices and so many other inhumane bullshit laws imposed under the guise of “defense.”

Anyone watch CNN’s coverage of the hostage release? I swear it’s becoming Fox News. Between allowing false statements and problematic terminology, I had to turn it off.

[fryjack2]

Israel putting restrictions on who can meet the released detainees, fine. Not fine, but fine.

Israel saying that families and Palestinians can not celebrate releases and anyone who does will be seen as a terrorist and therefore can be arrested is continuing the criminalization of anything Palestinian.

And this is a fantastic read. Fuck Hillary and her lies when she knows how big her audience is. Happy to share resources that describe the many peace talk efforts and how/why they have failed and how inaccurate it is when the blame is always on the Palestinians who supposedly didn’t agree to deals or refused to negotiate.

theintercept.com/2023/11/17/hillary-clinton-hamas-israel/?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-theintercept&utm_content=later-39289750&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

[fryjack2]

This article was also quite good.

www.timesofisrael.com/in-recording-john-kerry-says-israeli-government-doesnt-want-peace/amp/

** It's an article speaking to instances when Israel was not willing to work for peace.  I know at various times, both Israeli and Palestinian reps have not been amendable to discussions, negotiations, or concessions.   It's just typically Palestine who is blamed in the press for the lack of peace and this article speaks to a time period when it was more Israeli refusal.

[fryjack2]

Nov 24, 2023 21:23:56 GMT -5 AJL said:

Nov 24, 2023 21:03:28 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

@@@@

Here’s a good article from Aljazeera that explains about a the Palestinian prisoners* in Israeli and the conditions they’re subjected to (unfortunately for kids as well).
I use the word prisoners since that’s what was in the title.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

Israel has treated its detainees very badly in many cases. Looking at the article, I wonder why Israel hasn't chosen to release the 37 journalists and all children under the age of 18 in exchange for the hostages Hamas has (and not just the people that were captured on Oct. 7. Hamas has other detainees. I'll try to find the source.) I wonder how they came up with their initial list to begin with. 

I also wonder how the decisions were made.  Like why were some detainees released who had supposed charges of knife attacks, yet children remained detained?  I'm hesitant to use terms like prisoner or criminal because we know so many detainees are not held on any charges.   I am ok with people who were arrested for knife attacks being arrested-but seems like the justice system is severely flawed when it comes it Palestinians so its hard for me (as an outsider ignorant of their actions and arrests) to say that anyone is legitimately detained. I know some are, I just don't know who.

I also don't understand why not all the children were released by Hamas other than use as future bargaining chips  

[pixy0stix]

Re: reporters - from the very beginning there's been deliberate documented attacks against journalists.

abcnews.go.com/International/israel-hamas-war-deadliest-conflict-journalists-1992-cpj/story?id=104718365

If you start digging, Israel has been targeting journalists for a very long time. They very tightly control the message being reported. I'm not at all surprised they're not releasing journalists, especially since they can now report first hand the conditions they are being held in.

[fryjack2]

Three Palestinian college student in Vermont were shot by a white man. They were on their way to dinner, speaking Arabic, and wearing kaffiyehs (we also wear those as scarves, and Vermont is cold).

This is why I'm also afraid for my children, and my family. Someone posted about the incident on our local FB group as a FYI about the rise in anti-Palestinian hate (middle schoolers and high schoolers here have been harassed and assaulted for being Palestinian since OCt. 7th) and was basically told she was "stirring the pot." Not one single post in support of Israel or the Jewish population here has any hateful comments. Every. Single. One that mentions Palestine at all, like the one just sharing this article and asking for the town to be aware and to protect ALL our children, gets slammed.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/burlington-vermont-shooting-live-updates-rcna126704

The hate that has existed from the beginning of time is so profound and felt by so many towards so others who do not look like them, believe like them, or come from the same country as they don't seem to be getting any better

[Bad Dingo]

I'm so glad he was quickly caught, I can't imagine this won't be investigated as a hate crime.

[shauni27]

Nov 27, 2023 9:27:20 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I'm so glad he was quickly caught, I can't imagine this won't be investigated as a hate crime.

I am seeing that it is: www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-11-27/suspect-arraigned-in-shooting-of-three-palestinian-american-students-in-vermont

I happened to be in that area when the shooting took place and it has me shaken up. 

The racist shit pig shooter looks like he belongs to the proud boys.

[fryjack2]

I'll listen to that tomorrow Stan.

This John Oliver segment has been circulating and I think it hits some pretty good points. Its a bit long at 30 minutes, but worth it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8

[fryjack2]

Stan, I watched the special. Thanks for posting it. A few things stuck out:

Netanyahu has always looked like he's lying to your face. POS.

I truly believe that if Rabin were not assassinated by a Jewish extremist, he and Arafat would have achieved an agreement. Not a perfect one, but one that could have at least been a starting point to allow for calm in the region and build off of.

If Arafat had been able/willing to publicly condemn suicide bombings more often, the impact may have made a difference.

If Sharon didn't go to the Temple Mount, as Arafat warned would not be a good move at that moment in time, things may have been differently now. "I came here to the holiest place of the Jewish people" no mention of the significance to Palestinians.

It seems that every deal presented included Israel having a military presence in Palestinian land, and controlling some aspects of Palestinian life.

And Madeline Albright made me mad. Granted, I don't know the ins and outs of the meetings, but to say Arafat wasn't willing to negotiate when a lot of what was presented to him wasn't anything to negotiate doesn't seem fair. But her assessment that he was acting as a resistance leader and not president was probably accurate since he and Palestinians were living under an occupation and felt like they were in a resistance struggle.

I don't envy any of the leaders shown in the video as there is so much divide amongst their peoples of what they want their governments to agree to and a huge percent of the populations would be unhappy no matter what deals were struck.

Stop killing Palestinians. Stop killing Israelis. It has gotten, and will get us all nowhere but a continued state of agony.

[sonrisa]

Nov 29, 2023 18:33:37 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

If Rabin were not assassinated 

I remember when and where I was when I heard the news. 

[fryjack2]

Nov 29, 2023 20:44:58 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 29, 2023 18:33:37 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

If Rabin were not assassinated 

I remember when and where I was when I heard the news. 

Same.  And watching endless hours of the news and feelings of dread.

[pixy0stix]

I would like to go back to discussing the Palestinians that were released, because having 80% on that list not charged with a damn thing sure sounds like they were kidnapped - www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinian-hamas-prisoner-release-gaza-west-bank-rcna127353

[AJL]

This is a human rights violation and Israel should be held accountable for its actions in this capacity and likely others. Period.

[fryjack2]

More people were arrested than were released in the last few days
Makes it kind of pointless to release people when you just arrest more.

I have zero faith that they will be charged with anything and will be treated the same illegal, inhuman way other Palestinian arrested people are.

[fryjack2]

You know what else I’m sick of? Hearing how Israelis are peaceful people and Palestinians are the heartless terrorists. The continuation of the media saying that Palestinians were celebrating the Oct 7th attack and showing footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets.

Yet no mention of the racist, encouraging genocide tik toks and celebrating Israelis are doing. Or the fact that the number one song on Israeli charts since mid November is one that is calling for the murder of all Gazans and celebrities who show support for Palestine and dedicating bombs to Israeli grandparents with Gaza’s children written on them.

If we want to discuss and judge the media for excluding coverage of aspects of this war, we should acknowledge that they sure as shit are biased towards supporting Israel and perpetuating anti Arab, anti Palestinian, anti Muslim sentiment like they have done since the beginning of time.

www.timesofisrael.com/hip-hop-war-anthem-reaches-number-one-in-israel/amp/

[fryjack2]

The line in this go fund me for Hisham saying his parents didn’t want him going home to Palestine over break because they thought he would be safer if he stayed in the States was striking.

www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-hishams-recovery?fbclid=PAAaawbQuL_y-vNh5gcHGiB-uaJ9Joq78uRMDJq7FOrucqyl6uaGT2t4gErZw_aem_ActfQQyAsx2D9hBB2mDZbUArHFA-knhvDs2v3VQkgV74ZsZM-sukhGImSU_U_XJ0XhQ

Paralyzed from the chest down is so much more complicated and life changing than the waist down paralysis I thought I had read was his prognosis

I’m glad this is being labeled a hate crime despite the shooter being labeled mentally ill.

[fryjack2]

I was just told that calling the Nakba the Nakba is offensive to Jewish people. I told the guy telling me that that the actual Nakba act was offensive to my relatives who were killed or removed from their homes and its the literal word for what happened. He also said no one was forcibly removed in 1948, all Palestinians left willingly.

There are people who believe that. It's insane to me.

Like I said before, every single word or phrase connected to Palestine, Palestinian people, or their plight for freedom is being turned into something they aren't and said to be antisemetic or offensive to Jewish people.

Just more ways to further vilify an oppressed people already portrayed negatively by the world to the world.

I realize I'm talking to myself in this thread at this point but there really aren't many people to talk to about this IRL who care and if there is even one lurker reading who sees another perspective than what the news shows and gets more knowledge from what I write and it humanizes us, I'll keep talking to myself.

[gretchenindisguise]

@@@

fryjack2 , I'm still reading your posts, I've even read several of the posts here to my 14 yo to help her gain perspective and understanding I am still gaining.

I just never know what to say in return. Please keep posting as long as it's helpful for you to have a place to organize your thoughts and feelings. I'll keep reading.

[fryjack2]

This is the kind of fuckery that happens daily in the West Bank. Israeli officers can stop whoever they want, whenever they want and ask them to do whatever they feel like. Often it's some humiliating question or action. If you resist in any way, you get arrested or shot or killed. Imagine living under an occupation and the norm for you and your children is walking around in public where military officers with machine guns can just shove their guns in your face at random. And officers are allowed to enter your home at anytime just to look around or to become squatters in a section or all of your house. It's bananas that this is ok and accepted and allowed and encouraged by anyone in the world.

www.yahoo.com/news/video-shows-man-military-fatigues-212401746.html

[sakoro]

Dec 5, 2023 23:08:32 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Like I said before, every single realize I'm talking to myself in this thread at this point but there really aren't many people to talk to about this IRL who care and if there is even one lurker reading who sees another perspective than what the news shows and gets more knowledge from what I write and it humanizes us, I'll keep talking to myself.

This lurker is reading.

[shauni27]

Dec 6, 2023 8:33:18 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

This is the kind of fuckery that happens daily in the West Bank. Israeli officers can stop whoever they want, whenever they want and ask them to do whatever they feel like. Often it's some humiliating question or action. If you resist in any way, you get arrested or shot or killed. Imagine living under an occupation and the norm for you and your children is walking around in public where military officers with machine guns can just shove their guns in your face at random. And officers are allowed to enter your home at anytime just to look around or to become squatters in a section or all of your house. It's bananas that this is ok and accepted and allowed and encouraged by anyone in the world.

www.yahoo.com/news/video-shows-man-military-fatigues-212401746.html

this is the shit that is so scary to me. That this kind of stuff is happening all the time and no one is talking about it. Imagine your home being blown apart, your family and loved ones dying around you and yet you are still questioned daily, in your own home.

It is truly heartbreaking.