Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (@ mentions)

[meanprincess]

Oct 22, 2023 9:59:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

The link provided is from a website that is functionally no better than a message board. Anyone can submit articles. The articles aren't verified or backed up with any credentials.

This is why people are convinced you're a troll. First twitter, and now junk "news" websites.

This was the original piece but it is behind a paywall so I found it elsewhere.

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper. It was founded in 1918, making it the longest running newspaper currently in print in Israel.

[aurora]

Oct 22, 2023 8:13:02 GMT -5 meanprincess said:

I’m not coming after GG. Someone said in part of their post ‘But when I see people speak out about the atrocities of that kind of action and the cutting off of all resources, we are accused of being antisemitic.’

GG came after them and posted a rant (her words) about this is not what is happening, no Jews do that.

I say some of them do, we have a back and forth discussion which leads to me being called antisemitic.

So please explain GG coming after someone for saying that, then proceeds to say no one does that, then does exactly that.
I’m losing my fucking mind here.

I read her post very differently - you're right that in one paragraph she referred to "Jews" without a qualifier, but in the next she talks about liberal Jews, and I didn't catch a post where she claimed to speak for all Jews like you are suggesting. I think your own emotions on the topic (you posted about your shame just above, so I'm inferring here) may be coloring you interpretation of what others post.

[basilosaurus]

Lol that being called a weirdo is bullying

[pixy0stix]

apnews.com/article/israel-palestinian-gaza-war-syria-lebanon-hamas-c0e7ec55428fedc97f75bdfdc0c0679a

Israel strikes across Gaza after allowing another small aid convoy into the besieged enclave

[Michelle]

Oct 22, 2023 8:13:02 GMT -5 meanprincess said:

I’m not coming after GG. Someone said in part of their post ‘But when I see people speak out about the atrocities of that kind of action and the cutting off of all resources, we are accused of being antisemitic.’

GG came after them and posted a rant (her words) about this is not what is happening, no Jews do that.

I say some of them do, we have a back and forth discussion which leads to me being called antisemitic.

So please explain GG coming after someone for saying that, then proceeds to say no one does that, then does exactly that.
I’m losing my fucking mind here.

GG didn't come for me. She just used my comment as a quotable one about a trend she was seeing and has every right to speak to. She also put extremely kind disclaimers to make sure i knew it wasn't about ME but about the sentiment she keeps reading.

I didn't argue that the 'fragility' space wasn't where I was coming from, because I'm sure there is an element of that for many including possibly me. I know that I happen to be treading lightly because I don't want to hurt people unintentionally. And if by sharing that, it comes off as white fragility to her, i don't have to then reply and double down on my intentions, because her sentiment about imagining how it is for both Jews and Palestinians to feel unable to speak up is 100% on point. And her voice and fryjack's are more important than mine right now.

Maybe take a break for a couple of days and come back and re-read this thread from the perspective of someone who doesn't know you and how they might see you in the context others have shared. It might change your perspective on your intentions compared to your impact.


Editing to add: I'm just catching up with the other thread where Lilac said this even better:

Oct 17, 2023 13:13:11 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I just came across this quote and it really resonated with me. On this board, we have a lot of “academic exercise” conversations. And there’s a time and place for that, but when people are sharing how this directly impacts their lives, that’s not it. I haven’t contributed to these discussions on this board because I haven’t figured out how to adequately & concisely express in writing (not my strength) without potentially being hurtful to someone else. So I’ve said nothing…which is also hurtful. And I don’t know the solution, other than what I’ve been doing in real life, which is talking directly with people and showing them I care. I have no place in a debate, but there’s always a place for care and for quietly listening.



"When you debate a person about something that affects them more than it affects you, remember that it will take a much greater emotional toll on them than on you. For you it may feel like an academic exercise. For them, it feels like revealing their pain only to have you dismiss their experience and sometimes their humanity. The fact that you might remain more calm under these circumstances is a consequence of your privilege, not increased objectivity on your part. Stay humble."

-Sarah Maddox

[StrawberryBlondie]

Just catching up here... meanprincess is fka iceblink is fka bunnybean, correct? Just making sure I have the situation covered.

[fryjack2]

Oh, wow. I took a break for a few days from reading this thread. I feel like this is deja vu of every other time Israel and Palestine is discussed here.

Someone who may have good intentions, does a very bad job at conveying those intentions and is told what is problematic about their words and instead of reflecting, they double down

I am not an expert in what is antisemetic and what isn't, but if Jewish posters point out what seems like it could be or is, I would probably apologize and explain that I didn't realize it and apologize for causing hurt. Or if they explain why its perceived that way, I would try to understand why and not do it again.

I would trust them the same way I would hope people would trust me when I say something is offensive or islamophobic or prejudiced against Arabs/Muslims.

[fryjack2]

I haven't been in a good place for many days, much like our Jewish posters. My fears and despair for Arabs everywhere, Gazans, Palestinians in the West Bank where my family is from, are continually reinforced by messaging on social media, messages from work places, from news sources, and overheard and had conversations. I feel so hopeless and helpless.

The founder of the PCRF was on CNN talking about the direness of the situation in Gaza. He was asked if he was ensuring weapons were not in the aid being sent from his organization's fundraising. WTF. It is a nonpolitical, nonreligious organization who's sole purpose is giving life saving care to those unable to access care in Gaza and to help them get to other parts of the world to receive care. His exasperation was obvious as was his annoyance in his voice as he responded. Its shit questions like that that is not thinly veiled anti arab sentiment that perpetuates the stereotypes that Arabs and anything Arab or Palestinian is terrorists/terrorism.

Does anyone lurk on HoweverItHappened? I do sometimes and read their thread on this topic and was pretty disheartened at the misinformation, anti-Arab rhetoric, and anti-semitic comments.

I do see that many of their POC posters in that thread have a lot more knowledge of Palestine/Israel history than other posting there and see what is going on from the lens of another group of oppressed people.

I know I just posted a lot of random thoughts. Its kind of where my head is at- nothing is making sense and everything seems hopeless and I just cry at random points throughout the day.

[underwaterrhymes]

fryjack2 - ❤️❤️

[MrsAxilla]

Oct 23, 2023 17:54:08 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Just catching up here... meanprincess is fka iceblink is fka bunnybean, correct? Just making sure I have the situation covered.

You think it’s bunnybean?  The comments track but I thought she was well and thoroughly run off years ago for the same kind of inflammatory shit-stirring.  If it’s true though, that makes her conduct even more nasty and sinister.  Imagine seizing the opportunity to come back years later to attack the same posters over the same issue! I can’t quite articulate how vile that is.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Oct 23, 2023 21:19:17 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Oct 23, 2023 17:54:08 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Just catching up here... meanprincess is fka iceblink is fka bunnybean, correct? Just making sure I have the situation covered.

You think it’s bunnybean?  The comments track but I thought she was well and thoroughly run off years ago for the same kind of inflammatory shit-stirring.  If it’s true though, that makes her conduct even more nasty and sinister.  Imagine seizing the opportunity to come back years later to attack the same posters over the same issue! I can’t quite articulate how vile that is.

I thought iceblink was bunnybean before she peaced out in a fairly similar manner to what bunnybean did after expressing similar opinions and being told to perhaps reflect after she dug her heels in despite being told multiple times by multiple people that what she was saying was personally offensive and hurtful to them.

IDK if I'm right but it tracks.

[janegold]

Hugs fryjack2 .

[pixy0stix]

I can't tell from the language being used, but it seems Israeli forces targeted a refuge camp - Gaza deaths mount as Israel intensifies strikes; freed hostage speaks out

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza/

[fryjack2]

Oct 24, 2023 7:54:49 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I can't tell from the language being used, but it seems Israeli forces targeted a refuge camp - Gaza deaths mount as Israel intensifies strikes; freed hostage speaks out

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza/

I have zero doubt that Netanyahu is trying to wipe off all Palestinian people from Gaza and soon, the West Bank. His words and actions continue to prove that he is. When people in Gaza annd reporters and humanitarian agencies are saying no place is safe, they truly mean no place is safe.

His recent speech at the UN where he held up a map of the Middle East and Palestine was not on it was further proof. The entire Israel Palestine area was shaded in one color and labeled, “Israel.”

[redheadbaker]

Oct 23, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

The founder of the PCRF was on CNN talking about the direness of the situation in Gaza. He was asked if he was ensuring weapons were not in the aid being sent from his organization's fundraising. WTF. It is a nonpolitical, nonreligious organization who's sole purpose is giving life saving care to those unable to access care in Gaza and to help them get to other parts of the world to receive care. His exasperation was obvious as was his annoyance in his voice as he responded. Its shit questions like that that is not thinly veiled anti arab sentiment that perpetuates the stereotypes that Arabs and anything Arab or Palestinian is terrorists/terrorism.

I saw that interview. That was so shitty of her.

[wildrice]

fryjack2, I wish I could give you a real hug. Please take care of yourself. I am sorry this is happening.

[gretchenindisguise]

Oct 24, 2023 9:17:47 GMT -5 wildrice said:

fryjack2 , I wish I could give you a real hug. Please take care of yourself. I am sorry this is happening.

Agreed. I've been thinking this about @goldengrlz too. 

I've written my congresspersons. I've donated.

@
I've been teaching my kids (including reading L posts from posters here). 

I just wish I could do more.

[fryjack2]

Internet has been cut out. Al Jezeera and every other news source or civilians that have been sharing from inside have very very limited ability to share news.

As the bombing intensifies. Ground invasion imminent.

There is going to be nothing left standing, no one will be alive, no one will be held accountable for this genocide. Aid remains essentially non existent.

How is this being allowed and encouraged to happen? HOW???

[fryjack2]

Please call your elected officials and ask them to at the very least, back a ceasefire to allow aid in.

[laladypoet]

Oct 27, 2023 13:38:32 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Internet has been cut out. Al Jezeera and every other news source or civilians that have been sharing from inside have very very limited ability to share news.

As the bombing intensifies. Ground invasion imminent.

There is going to be nothing left standing, no one will be alive, no one will be held accountable for this genocide. Aid remains essentially non existent.

How is this being allowed and encouraged to happen? HOW???

Honest to god I feel like I’m going crazy. How is this being allowed to happen? This is NOT a war. This is a massacre.

[gretchenindisguise]

Oct 27, 2023 13:38:32 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Internet has been cut out. Al Jezeera and every other news source or civilians that have been sharing from inside have very very limited ability to share news.

As the bombing intensifies. Ground invasion imminent.

There is going to be nothing left standing, no one will be alive, no one will be held accountable for this genocide. Aid remains essentially non existent.

How is this being allowed and encouraged to happen? HOW???

I was just reading about this.

Here is a source: apple.news/ATxXctM8STGC-jjnAYOC7Zw (should open a Time article, I’ve never linked from apple news before. If it doesn’t- let me know).

[fryjack2]

People are asking me how they can send aid, not money but actual aid in the form of formula and medical supplies to Gaza.

You can't.

This ceasefire isn't happening because the hostages haven't been released? The best intelligence agencies in the world and hundreds of other wars ( this is a genocide) have missions to rescue people or kill targets that do not include murdering an entire population.

And if the hostages are in Gaza, as is being told to the world by any source, this bombing will kill them as well so the reasoning is bullshit anyway. But it seems like a convenient excuse to commit ethnic cleansing.

And another Fuck Biden for his claim that the number of dead aren't real.

[AJL]

Someone asked how come no one was stopping this bombardment of Gaza. In response, my questions are these: who is going to stop it and how?

Israel has ENORMOUS international political support that is backed by ridiculous amounts of money, especially from the U.S. The U.S. has backed Israel nearly from day one but the relationship was really cemented during the Six Day war in 1967 when Israel defeated Russian-backed Arab aggression on its own. The U.S. was stuck in the mess it created in Vietnam but had a policy of containment against communism. It saw Israel's military defeat of the Arabs as indication that it would be a formidable ally in the region. Since then, the U.S. has provided countless BILLIONS in aid to Israel, monetarily and in kind.

That being said, Israel may as well be the U.S. when it is acting as the aggressor. The U.S. will always unconditionally support Israel. What country has the military capacity, funding, and troops to defeat a U.S. backed war? If stronger Arab countries come to the aid of the Palestinians, they put their own tenuous relationships with western countries in jeopardy. Egypt and Jordan have flat out refused to take Palestinian refugees because they aren't willing to risk what tenuous stability they have in the region.

The U.S. has a tiger by the tail right now and that tiger is Israel. Israel is never going to back down from a war if they believe their existence is in peril, which it always has. That's how it's survived this long. 

None of this is morally or ethically acceptable. It is the nature of geopolitics and war. The only country that can get Israel to initiate a ceasefire is going to be the U.S. In order for that to happen, we have to speak up and pressure our congress people. fryjack2 is absolutely right that we should all be calling our reps and senators non-stop, demanding a ceasefire against Gaza. 

[laladypoet]

Oct 27, 2023 14:31:15 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

People are asking me how they can send aid, not money but actual aid in the form of formula and medical supplies to Gaza.

You can't.

This ceasefire isn't happening because the hostages haven't been released? The best intelligence agencies in the world and hundreds of other wars ( this is a genocide) have missions to rescue people or kill targets that do not include murdering an entire population.

And if the hostages are in Gaza, as is being told to the world by any source, this bombing will kill them as well so the reasoning is bullshit anyway. But it seems like a convenient excuse to commit ethnic cleansing.

And another Fuck Biden for his claim that the number of dead aren't real.

Theres no way to tell you how sorry I am. This is an atrocity. Free Palestine.

[Michelle]

Oct 27, 2023 14:58:50 GMT -5 AJL said:

[truncated]

None of this is morally or ethically acceptable. It is the nature of geopolitics and war. The only country that can get Israel to initiate a ceasefire is going to be the U.S. In order for that to happen, we have to speak up and pressure our congress people. fryjack2 is absolutely right that we should all be calling our reps and senators non-stop, demanding a ceasefire against Gaza. 

A Texas representative with a two-state solution and demand for peace: 

algreen.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/algreen.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/10.11.2023-request-for-amendments-to-the-standing-with-israel-resolution-letter-003.pdf

If people agree with his stand, you could ask your rep to ally with Mr. Green.

[ohgillian]

Oct 27, 2023 14:58:50 GMT -5 AJL said:

Someone asked how come no one was stopping this bombardment of Gaza. In response, my questions are these: who is going to stop it and how?

Israel has ENORMOUS international political support that is backed by ridiculous amounts of money, especially from the U.S. The U.S. has backed Israel nearly from day one but the relationship was really cemented during the Six Day war in 1967 when Israel defeated Russian-backed Arab aggression on its own. The U.S. was stuck in the mess it created in Vietnam but had a policy of containment against communism. It saw Israel's military defeat of the Arabs as indication that it would be a formidable ally in the region. Since then, the U.S. has provided countless BILLIONS in aid to Israel, monetarily and in kind.

That being said, Israel may as well be the U.S. when it is acting as the aggressor. The U.S. will always unconditionally support Israel. What country has the military capacity, funding, and troops to defeat a U.S. backed war? If stronger Arab countries come to the aid of the Palestinians, they put their own tenuous relationships with western countries in jeopardy. Egypt and Jordan have flat out refused to take Palestinian refugees because they aren't willing to risk what tenuous stability they have in the region.

The U.S. has a tiger by the tail right now and that tiger is Israel. Israel is never going to back down from a war if they believe their existence is in peril, which it always has. That's how it's survived this long. 

None of this is morally or ethically acceptable. It is the nature of geopolitics and war. The only country that can get Israel to initiate a ceasefire is going to be the U.S. In order for that to happen, we have to speak up and pressure our congress people. fryjack2 is absolutely right that we should all be calling our reps and senators non-stop, demanding a ceasefire against Gaza. 

A friend said that she opposes the ceasefire b/c the hostages haven't been released. I didn't know what to say to that. I mean, setting aside the logic that it would make sense to have a ceasefire so as not to inadvertently kill the hostages. But even ASIDE from that, I didn't know what to say to someone who supported violence to get their desired ends. 

This comment isn't addressed to AJL specifically. It's just a general question to the thread I guess. 

[Saudade]

If anyone is looking to donate money, SAMS (Syrian American Medical Society) is partnering with the Palestinian American Medical Association (PAMA), the Palestine Children’s Relief Fund (PCRF) to get funds and supplies in Gaza.

Thank you for considering donating.

[mepi]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday drew a connection between the conflict with Hamas and the Arab-Israeli War between 1947 and 1949, which occurred as Israel declared its independence.

“The war inside Gaza is going to be long. This is our second independence war. We're going to save our country,” Netanyahu said.

www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-28-23/index.html

[mepi]

The Israeli government has now responded to the UN resolution calling for a ceasefire.

Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen:

“We reject outright the UN General Assembly despicable call for a ceasefire.
Israel intends to eliminate Hamas just as the world dealt with the Nazis and ISIS.”

www.cnbc.com/2023/10/28/israel-hamas-war-gaza-live-updates.html

[Michelle]

Oct 27, 2023 19:54:16 GMT -5 ohgillian said:

Oct 27, 2023 14:58:50 GMT -5 AJL said:

Someone asked how come no one was stopping this bombardment of Gaza. In response, my questions are these: who is going to stop it and how?

Israel has ENORMOUS international political support that is backed by ridiculous amounts of money, especially from the U.S. The U.S. has backed Israel nearly from day one but the relationship was really cemented during the Six Day war in 1967 when Israel defeated Russian-backed Arab aggression on its own. The U.S. was stuck in the mess it created in Vietnam but had a policy of containment against communism. It saw Israel's military defeat of the Arabs as indication that it would be a formidable ally in the region. Since then, the U.S. has provided countless BILLIONS in aid to Israel, monetarily and in kind.

That being said, Israel may as well be the U.S. when it is acting as the aggressor. The U.S. will always unconditionally support Israel. What country has the military capacity, funding, and troops to defeat a U.S. backed war? If stronger Arab countries come to the aid of the Palestinians, they put their own tenuous relationships with western countries in jeopardy. Egypt and Jordan have flat out refused to take Palestinian refugees because they aren't willing to risk what tenuous stability they have in the region.

The U.S. has a tiger by the tail right now and that tiger is Israel. Israel is never going to back down from a war if they believe their existence is in peril, which it always has. That's how it's survived this long. 

None of this is morally or ethically acceptable. It is the nature of geopolitics and war. The only country that can get Israel to initiate a ceasefire is going to be the U.S. In order for that to happen, we have to speak up and pressure our congress people. fryjack2 is absolutely right that we should all be calling our reps and senators non-stop, demanding a ceasefire against Gaza. 

A friend said that she opposes the ceasefire b/c the hostages haven't been released. I didn't know what to say to that. I mean, setting aside the logic that it would make sense to have a ceasefire so as not to inadvertently kill the hostages. But even ASIDE from that, I didn't know what to say to someone who supported violence to get their desired ends. 

This comment isn't addressed to AJL specifically. It's just a general question to the thread I guess. 

My exact call to my representatives was to support a ceasefire so as not to kill innocent American and Israeli hostages on top of innocent Palestinians. I don't understand your friend's comment at all.