Karen Read Murder Trial

[litskispeciality]

Oh yeah the no surveillance video in a neighborhood full of police officers is sketchy. Most people regardless of profession have cameras now. Also not sure how the home owners slept through all of the chaos that morning, with a dog who they said barks a lot. It's not even like it was summer and they had an AC going or something to drown out some noise.

Good for the homeowners that they were able to sell their house after all of this. Granted the market is truly hot, but that just seemed too coincidental. I wish someone could have dug more in to the re-homing of the dog as well because there seemed to be *some* evidence he could have been bit by a dog. Maybe that wasn't his final injury, but that could explain him laying in the snow hurt, or left in the snow and the dog/home owners just thinking no one would notice all of the injuries.

After all that's mentioned here it just seems like the CW didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she hit him with her car and caused his death. Conspiracy theory or not there were chains of evidence that something else could have happened to cause his death.

I still have questions if this is ever re-tried like will KR switch lawyers? Reports are showing this is a very expensive trial, and that her dad may have taken out a 2nd mortgage. 1. Will her legal team have the time to re-try this case? 2. Will she have the money to pay them again? 3. Does the defense team just want to get a non-guilty verdict so bad they'll attempt another go at this (possibly for free)? It didn't seem like the state wanted to put a lot of effort in to this trial either, but they'll have to get co-council if they re-try because Lalley can't do this all on his own as shown in this first case.

I can't imagine KR agreeing to plea on lesser charges after going through all of this, but I guess that may come down too if the CW really does re-pursue this a second time. It makes no sense to me to do so, but I think they've gone so all in that "she did it" that they want to keep trying until they get some kind of guilty verdict to show they weren't wrong.

What happens to KR as well? Can she move out of the state, or is she stuck waiting in MA for at least a year in case they CW has another trial?

Oh and apparently Judge Bev is going to over see the Brian Walsh (disgusting piece of human garbage that allegedly murdered his wife in a horrible, horrible way) trial, and guess who was on the case? Proctor. Ugh.

And I feel bad for the police and state troopers who had to work the area around the court house. Regardless of how you feel about the outcome of this trial those folks still had to keep the peace and I'm sure they heard some pretty anti-police things the last few days/weeks. I'm not super pro-police by any means, but I am treat people fair and kind, especially when all their doing is their job.

[mae0111]

litskispeciality - I want to read your responses more thoroughly, but along with what you said so far (and maybe you mentioned this too) but….

All that chaos on the front lawn, and the large, anxious, reactive dog with a bite history doesn’t bark??

Also, Jen McCabe supposedly busts into their dark bedroom and startles them awake, and she can’t remember the dog being there??

Sorry… does not add up. I have the most docile goofball of a dog, but he is reacting LOUDLY to that whole scenario.

[mae0111]

An interesting article from the New Yorker

www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-irresolvable-tragedy-of-the-karen-read-case

[klee23]

Defense attorney Alan Jackson filed a
motion to dismiss some of the charges (including murder 2) stating the jury acquitted her and a retrial on those charges would be double jeopardy.

www.nbcboston.com/news/local/karen-read-motion-dismiss-murder/3420465/

[bcv513]

This news is huge IMO. Either the judge didn't bother to ask the jury if they were deadlocked on all of the counts, or she knew and didn't tell anyone.

[sparkythelawyer]

Jul 8, 2024 11:16:22 GMT -5 bcv513 said:

This news is huge IMO. Either the judge didn't bother to ask the jury if they were deadlocked on all of the counts, or she knew and didn't tell anyone.

Everyone misstepped on that part, and the judge arguably could have/should have asked, but the jury also could have disclosed whether they had consensus on some counts, and none of the attorneys asked either, because to some extent both parties wanted a mistrial.  I will be very surprised if the judge grants the defense's request here, but it is more ammo to make the case to the CW that the defendant should not be retried or if she is retried that the charges should read VERY differently.

[devonpow]

I think the split they had - in favor of acquiting on murder and purposely leaving the scene, and 9-3 in favor of a guilty on manslaughter is exactly what I was thinking. She did it, but not on purpose. I do hope they re try but just on DUI/manslaughter.

[bcv513]

Jul 8, 2024 12:59:40 GMT -5 devonpow said:

I think the split they had - in favor of acquiting on murder and purposely leaving the scene, and 9-3 in favor of a guilty on manslaughter is exactly what I was thinking. She did it, but not on purpose. I do hope they re try but just on DUI/manslaughter.

I'm still shocked simple DUI wasn't an option. That would have been an easy conviction for everyone in the house that night!

[klee23]

I need to dig around later when I'm done working but I thought the hullabaloo on the first full day of deliberations (that Wednesday) was to clarify the jury instructions to prevent this.

The original jury form only had guilty/not guilty for murder 2 but lesser charges did not? I thought they were re-made so the attorneys would know on which she was acquitted or hung

[klee23]

Also, lead investigator Michael Proctor suspended without pay following status hearing today, pending IA investigation.

www.nbcboston.com/news/local/michael-proctor-duty-state-hearing/3420093/

[klee23]

Jul 8, 2024 11:29:33 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Jul 8, 2024 11:16:22 GMT -5 bcv513 said:

This news is huge IMO. Either the judge didn't bother to ask the jury if they were deadlocked on all of the counts, or she knew and didn't tell anyone.

Everyone misstepped on that part, and the judge arguably could have/should have asked, but the jury also could have disclosed whether they had consensus on some counts, and none of the attorneys asked either, because to some extent both parties wanted a mistrial.  I will be very surprised if the judge grants the defense's request here, but it is more ammo to make the case to the CW that the defendant should not be retried or if she is retried that the charges should read VERY differently.

The 17 page motion is available now. In it Jackson makes mention (bullets 8-10) the defense wasn't permitted to speak, did not consent to mistrial, and was not permitted to query the jury. If that is true does that give any weight to the dismissal or is it grasping at straws? Don't mean to make you "work" when not at work, just curious since I have no legal knowledge

www.nbcboston.com/news/local/read-karen-read-motion-dimiss/3420532/

General question for anyone: Is this motion automatically argued in front of the judge that presided over the trial or reassigned based on judicial availability?

[AAM2012]

I would be shocked if the state decides to retry this case…

But not shocked because they’d have to admit, in essence, that it was a shit show to begin with and/or during the trial, and then that would make the prosecutor(s) look bad.

[litskispeciality]

Jul 8, 2024 22:09:03 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

I would be shocked if the state decides to retry this case…

But not shocked because they’d have to admit, in essence, that it was a shit show to begin with and/or during the trial, and then that would make the prosecutor(s) look bad.

I know this has been mentioned above, but in light of recent events, but can they have Proctor testify in a new trial? I guess it will depend if he's still employed by MSP at the time? In theory wasn't him testifying in this first trial supposed to be more beneficial to the state's case/the uninformed jury than him not testifying and looking sketchy to the jury (why didn't the lead investigator testify)? Of course that's in a perfect world that no one went home and looked up this case. I hate to be tin foil hat, but I would have had a really hard time staying away from this on my time off of jury duty, especially with all of the breaks.

Apparently a lot of people stood outside of some MSP (not sure if it was his station or another location) when the announcement of his leave without pay went out. I really have to wonder though if it would have been the same outcome should KR have been found guilty on at least one charge? In a perfect world it absolutely should...however I could see "an argument" (albeit not a good one) that he shouldn't be let go since she was found guilty, so clearly he did his job "the right way".

I'm ready for documentaries about this, and believe a lot of folks are working on being the first one to post. That's another wrench in re-trying this case though. There are legal experts who claim there are potential jurors out there who don't know about this trial, but dude the well has been poisoned. I know other big cases like Murdaugh and Casey Anthony for example were well publicized pre-trial, but this feels like it's just become a huge soap opera not here's all the (potential) evidence that person (in this case KR) did it.

[mae0111]

Kevin Albert, Canton cop and brother of Chris and Brian Albert, has been suspended with pay pending an investigation into his activities and actions in the KR/JOK case.

Also because he got so hammered that he left his badge in Proctor’s cruiser and misplaced his gun.

Things blew up at the Canton Select board meeting last night. I haven’t watched, but a saw a few clips of police officers hauling out KR protestors.

[litskispeciality]

mae0111 you beat me to it, lol. I haven't seen the Canton Town Hall either, but goodness this is a bad look for Canton and MSP.

Apparently MSP union put out a statement that Proctor's suspension without pay is a hardship for his family. I'm sorry to be insensitive because I know people work to pay bills, but it was insensitive of him to send those texts about KR's medical condition, body etc. It was insensitive of him to eff up this investigation (allegedly) to " try to get to the ME" and other things that may have put an innocent person on trial. It's insensitive to the OK family the family he('s) treating/ed this case. I feel bad for Proctor's wife and family though. I've seen news reporters literally at the edge of his driveway. It's a small town, and a pretty small state all things considered, this family will be shamed for years to come. Who knows what nasty sh!t Turtle Boy is continuing to post too (I refuse to read it).

I really hope Judge Bev takes all of the pending police suspensions in to consideration before approving another trial. Make sure every police officer who's under investigation has had their time so we know if they can testify (again). I hope the EMS (EMT's/Paramedics/FF's etc.) don't have any investigations come to light, although the only one I could maybe see an issue is the one female FF/Paramedic who allegedly knows the judge and another person in the case very well and may have purgered (sp) herself under oath saying she doesn't know them.

And I take back what I said about the documentary. I think the documentarians are going to have to do weekly episodes and really hustle to keep up with the updates because this soap opera's going to run longer than General Hospital.

[fluffycookie]

Jul 10, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

mae0111 you beat me to it, lol. I haven't seen the Canton Town Hall either, but goodness this is a bad look for Canton and MSP.

Apparently MSP union put out a statement that Proctor's suspension without pay is a hardship for his family. I'm sorry to be insensitive because I know people work to pay bills, but it was insensitive of him to send those texts about KR's medical condition, body etc. It was insensitive of him to eff up this investigation (allegedly) to " try to get to the ME" and other things that may have put an innocent person on trial. It's insensitive to the OK family the family he('s) treating/ed this case. I feel bad for Proctor's wife and family though. I've seen news reporters literally at the edge of his driveway. It's a small town, and a pretty small state all things considered, this family will be shamed for years to come. Who knows what nasty sh!t Turtle Boy is continuing to post too (I refuse to read it).

I really hope Judge Bev takes all of the pending police suspensions in to consideration before approving another trial. Make sure every police officer who's under investigation has had their time so we know if they can testify (again). I hope the EMS (EMT's/Paramedics/FF's etc.) don't have any investigations come to light, although the only one I could maybe see an issue is the one female FF/Paramedic who allegedly knows the judge and another person in the case very well and may have purgered (sp) herself under oath saying she doesn't know them.

And I take back what I said about the documentary. I think the documentarians are going to have to do weekly episodes and really hustle to keep up with the updates because this soap opera's going to run longer than General Hospital.

Feel bad for the kids, not the wife.  When TB started criticizing  the investigation she was on pages and was calling/emailing peoples places of employment complaining and demanding they be fired because they were talking negatively about her husband.  People have posted the emails their work has shared with them from her about this.

[mae0111]

Jul 10, 2024 9:40:10 GMT -5 fluffycookie said:

Jul 10, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

mae0111 you beat me to it, lol. I haven't seen the Canton Town Hall either, but goodness this is a bad look for Canton and MSP.

Apparently MSP union put out a statement that Proctor's suspension without pay is a hardship for his family. I'm sorry to be insensitive because I know people work to pay bills, but it was insensitive of him to send those texts about KR's medical condition, body etc. It was insensitive of him to eff up this investigation (allegedly) to " try to get to the ME" and other things that may have put an innocent person on trial. It's insensitive to the OK family the family he('s) treating/ed this case. I feel bad for Proctor's wife and family though. I've seen news reporters literally at the edge of his driveway. It's a small town, and a pretty small state all things considered, this family will be shamed for years to come. Who knows what nasty sh!t Turtle Boy is continuing to post too (I refuse to read it).

I really hope Judge Bev takes all of the pending police suspensions in to consideration before approving another trial. Make sure every police officer who's under investigation has had their time so we know if they can testify (again). I hope the EMS (EMT's/Paramedics/FF's etc.) don't have any investigations come to light, although the only one I could maybe see an issue is the one female FF/Paramedic who allegedly knows the judge and another person in the case very well and may have purgered (sp) herself under oath saying she doesn't know them.

And I take back what I said about the documentary. I think the documentarians are going to have to do weekly episodes and really hustle to keep up with the updates because this soap opera's going to run longer than General Hospital.

Feel bad for the kids, not the wife.  When TB started criticizing  the investigation she was on pages and was calling/emailing peoples places of employment complaining and demanding they be fired because they were talking negatively about her husband.  People have posted the emails their work has shared with them from her about this.

Agreed - I don't feel bad for Proctor's wife.  She knows who he is.   They are two peas in a pod from what I've seen.

[mae0111]

All of these people in the Canton PD and MSP are all involved in this tragic Sandra Birchmore case too. I really do hope they all find themselves facing jailtime, and they all start turning on each other.

Speaking of turning... we heard MONTHS ago from David Yanetti that Brian Higgins took a federal proffer. I'd love to know what's happening there...

[litskispeciality]

Jul 10, 2024 9:44:13 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

Jul 10, 2024 9:40:10 GMT -5 fluffycookie said:

Feel bad for the kids, not the wife.  When TB started criticizing  the investigation she was on pages and was calling/emailing peoples places of employment complaining and demanding they be fired because they were talking negatively about her husband.  People have posted the emails their work has shared with them from her about this.

Agreed - I don't feel bad for Proctor's wife.  She knows who he is.   They are two peas in a pod from what I've seen.

JFC. Pardon my language but they're a couple of scum bags

[nospaekae]

With the retrial set for January 2025 and MSP announcing internal investigations on 3 additional officers, I'm curious to see how this is going to play out for the Commonwealth. As much as I'd like to see this case dismissed, the CW seems intent on re-trying.

[litskispeciality]

nospaekae, I agree with you and still wonder why this is still moving toward a re-trial? As we've said, who will be left to testify? Does the CW just want to "prove" this was worth all of the trouble? It must be costing the CW a lot of money, right? I saw during the last hearing that one of KR's lawyers has another trial set in Jan and that could delay the re-trial, but Judge Bev seemed hell bent on having him at this re-trial.

I watch some Emily D. Baker Law Nerd analysis on this and she said it would be super hard to get the trial moved due to the coverage in MA. Hard to find another big county that hasn't heard about this, esp with a potential Netflix (and other) documentaries coming out.

Do we know why the MSP are under internal investigation? I thought I heard they allegedly were in the text chain(s) with Proctor, but I haven't gone down that rabbit hole. Curious to see if anyone is completely terminated after this...and how that effects the Brian Walsh case as Proctor oversaw that too (ugh).

I know I keep saying this, but I hope the FBI investigation is complete and published (is that the right word) prior to the re-trial so that can be introduced in to evidence. I understand people who think "JOK was a cop so KR did it" won't change their minds, but that seems like it could really change the case depending on the outcome of the investigation. I can't imagine the FBI has the time to chase dead ends/why were they involved in this? Also I want the MSP investigations to be finished before re-trial, but I tin foil hat wonder if they can drag their feet? Proctor wasn't put on leave until the hung jury verdict came back, was that coincidence?

[mae0111]

Is anyone watching the motion to dismiss? Weinberg is making a very clear, concise argument. I think that the CW lied in their initial response to the defense when they said that the motion was unfounded. They came out later saying that they responded to jurors that had reached out, but only after the jurors went to the press. So I think they'd heard from the jurors before they filed their initial response to the motion, and I think they lied.

All that said, there is no way that Judge Cannone dismisses these charges. Absolutely no way.

[nospaekae]

I watched. Unfortunately, I don't think the law is on the side of the defense on this one and I don't see this getting dismissed. I guess at this point, with all the background investigations going on, I don't understand why the CW is so intent on retrying this case? My theory is that they know as soon as this is over she is going to sue anyone and everyone (as she should) and maybe getting any kind of conviction, even if it is only the manslaughter charge, will impact any suits she may bring forward?

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories surrounding this case, but the CW's insistence and even some of the judge's actions really make you question if some kind of cover up or something is going on.

[livinitup]

The Boston papers are continuing to cover the fallout of the shitty lead investigator on this case, Michael Proctor as he remains suspended and without pay.

“Norfolk County District Attorney's Office, which prosecuted Read, sent a Brady letter earlier this month to 13 criminal defense attorneys in four cases.”

“The letter states that Proctor, who was involved in each investigation, has been subject to cross-examination regarding issues like conflict of interest and bias. It notes that he's under investigation and suspended without pay.”

His conduct was not just an injustice to Police Officer John O’Keefe but all victims who deserve better investigators and investigations.

[litskispeciality]

Two morning show hosts from a local(ish) to me radio station (WEEI) had dinner with KR. They didn't record siting that KR has signed an agreement with a magazine and can't have any other press until that's published. I didn't know there was a law against making money on the public/media appearances if/when those appearances happen, but it sounds like KR's subject to that too. The hosts are pretty pro-free KR, however they seemed to stay with that mindset after the dinner stating that KR should know the hosts would speak about whatever they could to get ratings. They said a lot of things were/are going on behind the scenes. This thing just keeps getting weirder.

What really disgusted me was the number of messages coming in shaming them for having dinner with a "cop killer". I know that protests (for both sides) are still going on, and there is quite a divide, but if you know this station specifically they've done a LOT for LEO, fire, EMS etc. families in crisis or death. I felt the station did a good job of reminding folks (again) that the CW has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that she did in fact commit at least one of the crimes, and that the jury of her peers didn't find that to be true.

I can't even keep up with the jury stories anymore, but I still really worry for their safety. Good for them for speaking up, but I hope they don't have bad repercussions.

[nospaekae]

Aug 12, 2024 12:33:26 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

Two morning show hosts from a local(ish) to me radio station (WEEI) had dinner with KR. 

I thought the most interesting part of this was when they mentioned that the Fed's accident re-constructionists were paid $500,000 and basically came to the conclusion that the CW's version of an accident could not have happened. 

[litskispeciality]

Aug 13, 2024 11:47:46 GMT -5 nospaekae said:

Aug 12, 2024 12:33:26 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

Two morning show hosts from a local(ish) to me radio station (WEEI) had dinner with KR. 

I thought the most interesting part of this was when they mentioned that the Fed's accident re-constructionists were paid $500,000 and basically came to the conclusion that the CW's version of an accident could not have happened. 

Right?! And the little we could hear from the FBI (?) witness because of the on-going investigation (I think),  basically "I'm incredibly highly trained, I'm supposed to be non-biased, and I can't present any evidence that JOK was hit by a car according to the CW's presented theory"...yet people still think KR did it, with her car and/or we need another trial. I guess I'd like to hear from someone who still believes that theory or whatever evidence they find to support another trial, other than KR not suing everyone as mentioned above.

[nospaekae]

Aug 13, 2024 14:12:05 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

Aug 13, 2024 11:47:46 GMT -5 nospaekae said:

I thought the most interesting part of this was when they mentioned that the Fed's accident re-constructionists were paid $500,000 and basically came to the conclusion that the CW's version of an accident could not have happened. 

Right?! And the little we could hear from the FBI (?) witness because of the on-going investigation (I think),  basically "I'm incredibly highly trained, I'm supposed to be non-biased, and I can't present any evidence that JOK was hit by a car according to the CW's presented theory"...yet people still think KR did it, with her car and/or we need another trial. I guess I'd like to hear from someone who still believes that theory or whatever evidence they find to support another trial, other than KR not suing everyone as mentioned above.

I have 2 acquaintances fully believe she is guilty. They're hanging on to Jen McCabe's testimony where she said KR stated "I hit him." Fully ignoring the conflicting testimony and the fact that it was not included in any reports. At this point, who knows what she said? There is way too much doubt and conflicting recollections.

[janegold]

My boomer MIL: "I think she's guilty. I don't like how she looks."

And yes, the "I hit him" testimony is the only other basis she can provide to back this up.

[lostrn]

This seems pretty damning to me? I don't see another reasonable explanation for microscopic pieces of her tail light to be in his clothing.

"The filing reads: “Through trace analysis and forensic testing, the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory discovered the victim’s DNA present on the broken taillight and microscopic pieces of red and clear apparent plastic located in the victim’s clothing. Comparison testing was conducted, and the results demonstrate that the microscopic pieces of red and clear plastic are consistent with the broken pieces of plastic from the defendant’s right rear taillight"

www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston25news.com/news/local/25-investigates-prosecutors-say-taillight-dna-evidence-implicates-karen-read/R263HJ2AWJFIDHSEWQU3WZAB4E/%3foutputType=amp