Democrats openly talk about replacing Biden

[sonrisa]

Jul 4, 2024 16:44:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

This is his best response? And also a joke??

Biden told governors he needs to get more sleep, avoid events after 8 p.m.

.

wapo.st/4cKjMby

He’s in his Eighties. Sundowning is a real thing. This is not a surprise. Trump took hours of breaks during his tenure so he’s right there with him.

[elleblue]

Jul 4, 2024 21:42:30 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jul 4, 2024 16:44:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

This is his best response? And also a joke??

Biden told governors he needs to get more sleep, avoid events after 8 p.m.

.

wapo.st/4cKjMby

He’s in his Eighties. Sundowning is a real thing. This is not a surprise. Trump took hours of breaks during his tenure so he’s right there with him.

From 2018:

[neverfstop]

Trump camp is very nervous about the possibility of a ticket with Harris at the top...
www.axios.com/2024/07/05/behind-the-curtain-trumps-kamala-harris-plan?

They started targeting her with made up names.

"Laffin' Kamala Harris," he said on his Truth Social platform, referring to the right's spliced clips of her giddier moments. (A Trump campaign statement the day before had called her "Cackling Copilot Kamala Harris.")

A CNN poll released Tuesday found independents back Harris, 43%-40% over Trump, and moderates prefer her, 51-39%.

----------
The other side: Harris supporters tell us she could reset the race in ways that benefit Democrats. At the top of the list:

She immediately ensures the fall of Roe is a main focus of the race.
With a younger nominee, Democrats would try to make the age/fitness issue the GOP's problem.
Harris — who was elected San Francisco district attorney, and was California attorney general — would allow Dems to frame the race as a former prosecutor vs. a convicted felon.

[icedcoffee]

I really would love to know why Biden is SO set on running for a second term. Is it for himself? The good of the country? Why not throw all of his energy toward supporting the next generation?

He's a good man. He's done a lot of great things for the country. It's time to retire and spend the time with your family in Rehoboth.

I HATE all the speculation of the state of his brain. He's 81! It's natural to start sundowning (ETA:  slowing down, not sundowning lol). It's ok--It just means maybe it's not the time for you to run an entire country.

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2024 9:35:38 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I really would love to know why Biden is SO set on running for a second term. Is it for himself? The good of the country? Why not throw all of his energy toward supporting the next generation?

He's a good man. He's done a lot of great things for the country. It's time to retire and spend the time with your family in Rehoboth.

I HATE all the speculation of the state of his brain. He's 81! It's natural to start sundowning. It's ok--It just means maybe it's not the time for you to run an entire country.

I HOPE that it’s just that the campaign has decided to give the appearance of being 100% ALL-IN, full speed ahead, while they get their ducks in a row and make final decisions behind the scene. They can’t show one milligram of weakness right now if there’s even the very slightest chance that he might still run.

It also could be that he’s not really aware of the struggles he’s having (very common) and people are trying to convince him that it’s time to step back and let the next generation lead.

He’s been a very good leader (although I do question how much leading *he* is actually doing vs his administration…but he chose them). In my opinion, continuing to stay in this race at this point is selfish and negates all of the decades of service to the people of this country. I have full confidence in Kamala’s ability to lead this country. It’s mostly continuing his administration with a vibrant, brilliant, charismatic person who will have the votes and the support of the younger people. I like Biden…but it’s time for him to pass the torch. (And I’ve been saying this about the 2024 election since 2021, not just because of “one bad night.”)

[jinkies]

Am I misunderstanding something? I thought "sundowning" was specifically something that occurs in people with dementia/ Alzheimer's disease?

The way you guys are using it makes it sound like normal aging and just being foggy as you get closer to bedtime, but that's not my understanding of the term, and it certainly isn't a term that I would use to defend him remaining leader of the free world.

While I align (roughly) with Joe politically, he is absolutely putting himself, his ego, and his power trip ahead of the good of the country/world. It's selfish, and sadly, a disturbing similarity he has with his opponent.

The only possible semi-viable scenario I see is for Democrats to quickly, enthusiastically, whole heartedly, and with their full throat, move Harris to the top of the ticket. There is not time for debate over who it should be-- she is the natural successor and skipping her would look terrible, further division, and eat up time before the election that we don't have.

I live in a purple area in a swing state and what I'm seeing is that people would be more excited to vote for a fern than either of the current candidates. I can't believe that our choices are a felon or someone whose SUPPORTORS are telling us that he is old and sundowning as if that's OK.

FWIW, my grandparents lived independently into their 90s, but in their 80s started to get confused while driving. My parents (who lived next door) would casually mention how my grandparents got lost for an hour coming home from a store they visited every week, and that they watched my grandfather obliviously drive through a red light. They, my aunt/uncle, my brother, and the rest of the family was unwilling to get involved because they didn't want to upset my grandfather, and they didn't think he would ever voluntarily give up driving, and because they didn't want to be the bad guy, and because it would have meant coordinating rides for them whenever they needed anything which seemed like a hassle. I ended up getting the DMV involved in a process that ultimately removed my grandfather's license, but there were a LOT of people standing by watching his decline and just letting it happen because it was easier for them and they didn't want to piss off the patriarch.

That's the context that I bring to the Biden decision. Someone needs to take Joe's keys, and no one around him seems brave enough to do the right thing.

[icedcoffee]

Jul 5, 2024 10:39:24 GMT -5 jinkies said:

Am I misunderstanding something? I thought "sundowning" was specifically something that occurs in people with dementia/ Alzheimer's disease?

The way you guys are using it makes it sound like normal aging and just being foggy as you get closer to bedtime, but that's not my understanding of the term, and it certainly isn't a term that I would use to defend him remaining leader of the free world.

While I align (roughly) with Joe politically, he is absolutely putting himself, his ego, and his power trip ahead of the good of the country/world. It's selfish, and sadly, a disturbing similarity he has with his opponent.

The only possible semi-viable scenario I see is for Democrats to quickly, enthusiastically, whole heartedly, and with their full throat, move Harris to the top of the ticket. There is not time for debate over who it should be-- she is the natural successor and skipping her would look terrible, further division, and eat up time before the election that we don't have.

I live in a purple area in a swing state and what I'm seeing is that people would be more excited to vote for a fern than either of the current candidates. I can't believe that our choices are a felon or someone whose SUPPORTORS are telling us that he is old and sundowning as if that's OK.

FWIW, my grandparents lived independently into their 90s, but in their 80s started to get confused while driving. My parents (who lived next door) would casually mention how my grandparents got lost for an hour coming home from a store they visited every week, and that they watched my grandfather obliviously drive through a red light. They, my aunt/uncle, my brother, and the rest of the family was unwilling to get involved because they didn't want to upset my grandfather, and they didn't think he would ever voluntarily give up driving, and because they didn't want to be the bad guy, and because it would have meant coordinating rides for them whenever they needed anything which seemed like a hassle. I ended up getting the DMV involved in a process that ultimately removed my grandfather's license, but there were a LOT of people standing by watching his decline and just letting it happen because it was easier for them and they didn't want to piss off the patriarch.

That's the context that I bring to the Biden decision. Someone needs to take Joe's keys, and no one around him seems brave enough to do the right thing.

I totally agree with you.  I used sundowning in my post (probably incorrectly), but certainly not to defend him remaining in the race.  Just to say it's normal and he needs to retire.  Do some consulting if you're not ready.  

I think a Kamala ticket is also our best bet, though I wouldn't have necessarily chosen her if we had more time.

[mrshandy]

Jul 5, 2024 9:35:38 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I really would love to know why Biden is SO set on running for a second term. Is it for himself? The good of the country? Why not throw all of his energy toward supporting the next generation?

He's a good man. He's done a lot of great things for the country. It's time to retire and spend the time with your family in Rehoboth.

I HATE all the speculation of the state of his brain. He's 81! It's natural to start sundowning. It's ok--It just means maybe it's not the time for you to run an entire country.

I'm annoyed at Biden and his hubris. He should have realized this a while ago and made the necessary steps and prepping someone to step up instead. What if he had been propping up Kamala to take over the mantle for the last 2 years? He convinced himself that he is the only one to save this country. He should have recognized and acknowledged his own weaknesses. But he's a white old guy from a generation of boomers that have been taught that they are the end all and be all of everything. Like Trump! 

Look he's done a great service for his country. But he should have taken the tough steps of stepping back for the good of the country! Instead he has left us in an impossible position because of his pride and stubbornness. 

[wanderingback]

Dear lord, now we’ve given this man dementia lol.

[docholly]

I kind of doubt that Biden is just running again because he really wants to be a two-term president. I don’t think he wants to be president at all. I think they have been crunching polls behind the scenes all along, and for whatever reason, they think he has to run or Trump wins.



If he needs to step side, Harris will be president… which is fine with me. Just have to get through the election.

The debate performance was terrible, but the country has been run the last four years, and Biden has a capable, sane team around him.


If Trump gets more Supreme Court nominees, it’s all she wrote. Ukraine, China, disaster…

I’d honestly vote for Biden if they were propping him up Weekend at Bernie’s style because I trust the people around him.


I don’t think Biden originally entered the last race because he thought he was the only hero who could do it, the data said it was that or a second trump term.

I wish I could say all this faltering by the media outlets and by the dems would have no impact, but I 100 percent believe many people will quietly vote Trump or abstain from voting altogether.
.

Trump and his team, and probably the foreign actors who want him to win, are excellent at the “circus”… much better than the democrats are. We lose in messaging and rallying. Obama was an outlier there.

[jinkies]

I just want to be clear that I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. It was more that my understanding of the term "sundowning" was different from the way I was seeing it used. Like when my friend's mom was sundowning, she would get dressed and start walking down her (remote, no sidewalk, road) at 3 am thinking that she was going to work. She was also pretty far into an Alzheimer's diagnosis at that time. I'd never heard it used to mean brain fogginess as you get tired/close to bedtime, which isn't what I thought it meant?

[icedcoffee]

But who are these people who think Biden is the only democrat capable of being president? Are US citizens that dumb? There are so many smart, capable Democrats. Can we not find ONE to run for president?

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 5, 2024 12:03:44 GMT -5 jinkies said:

I just want to be clear that I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. It was more that my understanding of the term "sundowning" was different from the way I was seeing it used. Like when my friend's mom was sundowning, she would get dressed and start walking down her (remote, no sidewalk, road) at 3 am thinking that she was going to work. She was also pretty far into an Alzheimer's diagnosis at that time. I'd never heard it used to mean brain fogginess as you get tired/close to bedtime, which isn't what I thought it meant?

I might have misinterpreted wanderingback’s post, but I, for one, am annoyed by the use of sundowning and got a chuckle from her post because sundowning is a specific term usually used for people with Alzheimer’s and other dementia.

I have had to stop responding in this thread because it’s making me anxious and angry. Biden is slowing down. He is NOT sundowning.

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2024 12:16:38 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jul 5, 2024 12:03:44 GMT -5 jinkies said:

I just want to be clear that I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. It was more that my understanding of the term "sundowning" was different from the way I was seeing it used. Like when my friend's mom was sundowning, she would get dressed and start walking down her (remote, no sidewalk, road) at 3 am thinking that she was going to work. She was also pretty far into an Alzheimer's diagnosis at that time. I'd never heard it used to mean brain fogginess as you get tired/close to bedtime, which isn't what I thought it meant?

I might have misinterpreted wanderingback’s post, but I, for one, am annoyed by the use of sundowning and got a chuckle from her post because sundowning is a specific term usually used for people with Alzheimer’s and other dementia.

I have had to stop responding in this thread because it’s making me anxious and angry. Biden is slowing down. He is NOT sundowning.

To be fair, we don’t know that he’s NOT, either…but his performance at the debate was not the same as what is generally termed “sundowning.” We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes at the White House…in either direction. He might be sharp as a tack and having frequent complex discussions and not missing a beat, or they could be doing similar to what was happening in the Reagan Administration. Of course, the official line is one way, but we won’t for sure until 20+ years from now.

As far as “he should have recognized…”, it’s just not that easy. We can all probably think of 100 reasons why someone wouldn’t want to give up power. But then add it *if* he’s experiencing cognitive decline, it’s very common that people don’t recognize it in themselves. However, if that’s the case, then the people around him should be making the hard decisions.

[elleblue]

Jul 5, 2024 11:29:30 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Dear lord, now we’ve given this man dementia lol.

Right? I'm sort of aghast at watching people here fall in line with the framing of the media. Every article quotes unnamed sources, relies heavily on speculation, and so on. The NY Times has written 192 articles on Biden's debate performance in the past week. 192! And nothing about the latest Epstein docs that detail Trump's abuse and rape of underage girls. Why? Because apparently that's "old news" even though it's really not.

It's naive not to view the information being presented to us with a critical eye. A horse race presidential contest makes money, angry and/anxious clicks make money, a president who would cut corporate taxes will make them money. There's every reason to try to level the playing field and make this a "they're both terrible candidates" when that's truly not the case. One is markedly worse on every single metric yet the focus is on the guy who is just three years older.

[mcsangel2]

Does anyone else listen to The Rest is Politics - US podcast with Katty Kay (from MSNBC) and Anthony Scaramucci? They said their separate sources have told them Biden will be out of the race by the end of July - Scaramucci's sources have said Biden will resign so Harris can assume the presidency, to make it easier to transfer the campaign war chest to her. If this happens (hard to imagine but at least I'll be prepared if it does), my guess from other things I've heard and read is that Gretchen Whitmer will be tapped for VP (think MI and PA name recognition as they are the 2 most important swing states).

[neverfstop]

Jul 5, 2024 13:02:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

To be fair, we don’t know that he’s NOT, either…but his performance at the debate was not the same as what is generally termed “sundowning.” We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes at the White House…in either direction. He might be sharp as a tack and having frequent complex discussions and not missing a beat, or they could be doing similar to what was happening in the Reagan Administration. Of course, the official line is one way, but we won’t for sure until 20+ years from now.

As far as “he should have recognized…”, it’s just not that easy. We can all probably think of 100 reasons why someone wouldn’t want to give up power. But then add it *if* he’s experiencing cognitive decline, it’s very common that people don’t recognize it in themselves. However, if that’s the case, then the people around him should be making the hard decisions.

Biden’s Lapses Are Said to Be Increasingly Common and Worrisome

People who have spent time with President Biden over the last few months or so said the lapses appear to have grown more frequent, more pronounced and, after Thursday’s debate, more worrisome.
www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/us/politics/biden-lapses.html


Top aides shielded Biden from staff, but couldn't hide the debate 
www.axios.com/2024/06/30/top-aides-shielded-biden-white-house-debate


Inside Biden’s Protective White House

The White House’s cloistered nature reflects the concern of aides who worry that even small mistakes will be amplified. Lately, the president has burst through that bubble, with mixed results.
www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/us/politics/biden-white-house-aides.html

-------
I think everybody gave him the benefit of the doubt for a while & believed what we were being told about his health/abilities, but all along people were saying he was too old, both physically and just from a "we need new energy & a new generation of leadership" standpoint. 

[stuffandthings]

Jul 5, 2024 13:13:04 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

Does anyone else listen to The Rest is Politics - US podcast with Katty Kay (from MSNBC) and Anthony Scaramucci? They said their separate sources have told them Biden will be out of the race by the end of July - Scaramucci's sources have said Biden will resign so Harris can assume the presidency, to make it easier to transfer the campaign war chest to her. If this happens (hard to imagine but at least I'll be prepared if it does), my guess from other things I've heard and read is that Gretchen Whitmer will be tapped for VP (think MI and PA name recognition as they are the 2 most important swing states).

This is EXACTLY what I've been hoping would happen. Biden resigns, Kamala runs things for the next four months, Kamala leans into the pro-choice zeitgeist and taps Whitner for VP, shoring up the midwestern swing states. If this happens I feel really good about our chances to win.

[wanderingback]

Jul 5, 2024 12:16:38 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jul 5, 2024 12:03:44 GMT -5 jinkies said:

I just want to be clear that I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. It was more that my understanding of the term "sundowning" was different from the way I was seeing it used. Like when my friend's mom was sundowning, she would get dressed and start walking down her (remote, no sidewalk, road) at 3 am thinking that she was going to work. She was also pretty far into an Alzheimer's diagnosis at that time. I'd never heard it used to mean brain fogginess as you get tired/close to bedtime, which isn't what I thought it meant?

I might have misinterpreted wanderingback’s post, but I, for one, am annoyed by the use of sundowning and got a chuckle from her post because sundowning is a specific term usually used for people with Alzheimer’s and other dementia.

I have had to stop responding in this thread because it’s making me anxious and angry. Biden is slowing down. He is NOT sundowning.

Exactly!

Also I scrolled up and it looks like sonrisa might’ve been the first person to use that term and if recollection serves me right this would not be the first time something bizarre/off came out from sonrisa lol. So it all tracks!

Maybe we’re all sundowning….

[wanderingback]

Jul 5, 2024 13:02:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Jul 5, 2024 12:16:38 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I might have misinterpreted wanderingback’s post, but I, for one, am annoyed by the use of sundowning and got a chuckle from her post because sundowning is a specific term usually used for people with Alzheimer’s and other dementia.

I have had to stop responding in this thread because it’s making me anxious and angry. Biden is slowing down. He is NOT sundowning.

To be fair, we don’t know that he’s NOT, either…but his performance at the debate was not the same as what is generally termed “sundowning.” We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes at the White House…in either direction. He might be sharp as a tack and having frequent complex discussions and not missing a beat, or they could be doing similar to what was happening in the Reagan Administration. Of course, the official line is one way, but we won’t for sure until 20+ years from now.

As far as “he should have recognized…”, it’s just not that easy. We can all probably think of 100 reasons why someone wouldn’t want to give up power. But then add it *if* he’s experiencing cognitive decline, it’s very common that people don’t recognize it in themselves. However, if that’s the case, then the people around him should be making the hard decisions.

If Biden is literally sundowning and has Alzheimer’s then the democrats deserve to lose because wtf. Also with the 24/7 news cycle and social media I think things are a lot different than the Reagan times. There’s a reason certain professions require you to retire at 65 or 70. If only the same was true for politicians, especially the president of the damn country!

[elleblue]

As far as I'm concerned, the NY Times absolutely torched whatever shreds of credibility they had left when they published an op-ed by a known white supremacist and Christian Nationalist yesterday, urging people to just not bother voting and sit this one out. Who, just as it so happens, has a record of consistently voting every year.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 5, 2024 14:21:36 GMT -5 elleblue said:

As far as I'm concerned, the NY Times absolutely torched whatever shreds of credibility they had left when they published an op-ed by a known white supremacist and Christian Nationalist yesterday, urging people to just not bother voting and sit this one out. Who, just as it so happens, has a record of consistently voting every year.

YES. They’ve been a rag for some time now. Plus, they haven’t called for a lying rapist felon to drop out, but yet they keep calling on Biden to drop out. The NYT can (continue to) kick rocks.

[nsl]

Jul 5, 2024 13:13:04 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

Does anyone else listen to The Rest is Politics - US podcast with Katty Kay (from MSNBC) and Anthony Scaramucci? They said their separate sources have told them Biden will be out of the race by the end of July - Scaramucci's sources have said Biden will resign so Harris can assume the presidency, to make it easier to transfer the campaign war chest to her. If this happens (hard to imagine but at least I'll be prepared if it does), my guess from other things I've heard and read is that Gretchen Whitmer will be tapped for VP (think MI and PA name recognition as they are the 2 most important swing states).

I'm sorry, but why on earth should anyone believe Anthony Scaramucci of all people, particularly when his information is coming from unnamed sources? The man is a finance bro who became a national joke as a short-lived press secretary to Trump. He's not a journalist.

[karinothing]

How are we ever supposed to win an election where we aren't even supporting our own flipping candidate? This is all a disaster.

[curbsideprophet]

If he steps down as President after he is the official nominee, does Harris automatically become the top of the ticket? Maybe that was the plan all along. They avoid a messy primary and give her access to the money this administration has raised.

[mcsangel2]

Jul 5, 2024 18:01:41 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

If he steps down as President after he is the official nominee, does Harris automatically become the top of the ticket? Maybe that was the plan all along. They avoid a messy primary and give her access to the money this administration has raised.

This is the issue. I think all the states have had their primaries now, which means they are pledged to Biden. If he doesn't step back from the race (and/or resign office), those delegates are tied to him for the convention next month. He needs to step back and release the delegates so that they can pledge to Harris at the convention (if the DNC decides unequivocally that Harris is the new nominee). If he releases the delegates and the DNC doesn't make up their mind, the convention will be totally open and OMG what an utter shitshow that would be. We need to avoid that. But again, Joe needs to release the delegates.

[Bad Dingo]

Does anyone actually think the Dems would coalesce behind Harris or literally anyone?

The only possible plan is stay the course until at least the convention but hopefully until the election. Hopefully people show up and vote. Hopefully the crazies don't try to pull another coup and then...maybe we end up with President Harris sometime soon.

[Bad Dingo]

Can you imagine how many Bernie Bros would show up at the convention and vote for him because he is still their savior? (No offense to those who are taking offense right now).

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2024 18:39:00 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Does anyone actually think the Dems would coalesce behind Harris or literally anyone?

The only possible plan is stay the course until at least the convention but hopefully until the election. Hopefully people show up and vote. Hopefully the crazies don't try to pull another coup and then...maybe we end up with President Harris sometime soon.

Yes, I do. As long as Biden steps aside on his own and is not forced out. She’s *in* the Biden Administration. If people want him because of his Administration, then she’s the obvious next in line. She’s ALREADY the next in line and we voted for her.

Your second paragraph is way too many “hopefully” statements for me. Maybe people aren’t hearing it in solid blue areas because no one want to admit we might need to change, but people in my area are VERY energized by a non-old white man option!

[mcsangel2]

Jul 5, 2024 18:39:00 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Does anyone actually think the Dems would coalesce behind Harris or literally anyone?

The only possible plan is stay the course until at least the convention but hopefully until the election. Hopefully people show up and vote. Hopefully the crazies don't try to pull another coup and then...maybe we end up with President Harris sometime soon.

Yes, I do think they would.