A second person tried to shoot Trump

[cville]

Sept 15, 2024 19:09:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 15, 2024 18:53:00 GMT -5 cville said:

Hey, I know it's nutty to even lean to "is this for real?" Hence why I call it tinfoil hat. I'm at a place where I am having trouble making sense of what is true anymore.

How about this instead. The Secret Service and other similar protective governmental bodies thwart intended harm to political figures all the time. I find it convenient for him that this one got such swift and widespread publicity, especially given the importance of not exposing security challenges or giving dangerous people notoriety. He gets to be big brave man to his cult. He likes that, no matter that he (I acknowledge) did not invite it.

Could this be because there was a prior recent attempt and the media is all over it? Because the person made it off the golf course before they were caught? Of course.

I hate that this is where we are. He made this bed and we all have to lie in it.

Ok, who and when was the last time Secret Service agents had to open fire to protect a political figure that wasn't widespread in the news?

You are asking me to prove a negative. I based my statements on things that were declassified about long ago figures decades later. I am making a logical presumption that with further proliferation of guns and increased polarization these events have occurred in more recent times.

I hear what you're saying. You can be livid with me and think I'm full of shit. I never said I didn't think it happened or that it was a false flag, though it is clear you interpreted my statements as such and I should have been clearer. I do think, and will not be dissuaded from this point, that he is relishing his ability to capitalize on it politically.

I lay the blame for this all at the feet of guns and people who stoke hatred.

[elleblue]

Sept 15, 2024 18:58:55 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I’m so fucking annoyed that this shit is gonna be in the news cycle now. I hope Kamala keeps campaigning.

This is where I am. He continues to suck all of the oxygen out of the room.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 15, 2024 19:18:37 GMT -5 cville said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:09:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, who and when was the last time Secret Service agents had to open fire to protect a political figure that wasn't widespread in the news?

You are asking me to prove a negative. I based my statements on things that were declassified about long ago figures decades later. I am making a logical presumption that with further proliferation of guns and increased polarization these events have occurred in more recent times.

I hear what you're saying. You can be livid with me and think I'm full of shit. I never said I didn't think it happened or that it was a false flag, though it is clear you interpreted my statements as such and I should have been clearer. I do think, and will not be dissuaded from this point, that he is relishing his ability to capitalize on it politically.

I lay the blame for this all at the feet of guns and people who stoke hatred.

It wasn't even you, but you did use my favorite "it's happened before" statement without any proof at all.

THAT is what stokes the hatred.

Instead, as we've seen in this election cycle, it's better to acknowledge that yes it happened. Guns are awful. Don't we all want this to end? Full stop.

[erbear]

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

[pixy0stix]

And another thing (lololol, I'm a meme now)...

Why does it have to be Springfield he's trying to deflect from? Why isn't it Aurora, or the fact that neither he nor Vance have said they wouldn't do family separations at the border, or that he's been signalling yet again that he's a Russian stooge, or his ever changing stance on abortion, or or or ...

[underwaterrhymes]

Two things can be true at once.

Florida has crap gun laws which means people that shouldn’t have access to guns do.

And

Trump and his campaign have consistently lied about all manner of shit for YEARS, which makes it very hard to trust initial reports.

Not trusting initial reports (some of which also said that it was two people shooting at each other, which was quickly proven to not be the case) is prudent.

Not one person here has said that they think the first shooting was faked and people here have mostly been like eehhhhhh, it’s a little weird that after one assassination attempt someone else was able to get so close.

I think everyone here can probably agree that his people need to step up their game when it comes to protecting him and that lies are not conducive to trust.

[cville]

Sept 15, 2024 19:25:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:18:37 GMT -5 cville said:

You are asking me to prove a negative. I based my statements on things that were declassified about long ago figures decades later. I am making a logical presumption that with further proliferation of guns and increased polarization these events have occurred in more recent times.

I hear what you're saying. You can be livid with me and think I'm full of shit. I never said I didn't think it happened or that it was a false flag, though it is clear you interpreted my statements as such and I should have been clearer. I do think, and will not be dissuaded from this point, that he is relishing his ability to capitalize on it politically.

I lay the blame for this all at the feet of guns and people who stoke hatred.

It wasn't even you, but you did use my favorite "it's happened before" statement without any proof at all.

THAT is what stokes the hatred.

Instead, as we've seen in this election cycle, it's better to acknowledge that yes it happened. Guns are awful. Don't we all want this to end? Full stop.

I do not think me saying that this has happened before to other figures stokes hatred or suggests that it didn't happen this time.

I hear your anger and frustration, generally, and to an extent with me because you believe that I am making shit up and saying things that are distasteful and unwise.

I'm angry too. Angry with 45 and his cult. Angry with people who value guns over people. I'm pissed. And in the immediate aftermath of yet another terrible event I, a person with 0 political or media power, popped off on a random message board. Sure, we should all wait for certainty and be measured. But I'm at a high throttle and used the internet for an emotional outlet. A mistake I've made before and likely will make again.

[pixy0stix]

Lol that people here don't believe the first shooting is fake. It's been implied numerous times in other threads, most recently in the debate thread.

ETA: and another thread that was talking about an interview he did that the interviewer said they had a close view of his ear and saw nothing. Which could have been implying that it healed/or wasn't bad, but also echoes the "it never happened" rationale.

[rubytue]

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

But to immediately jump to distrust within hours of the news coming out? That’s the part that’s really getting to me, the fact this thread went almost immediately to conspiracy theories. 

[erbear]

Sept 15, 2024 19:52:30 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

But to immediately jump to distrust within hours of the news coming out? That’s the part that’s really getting to me, the fact this thread went almost immediately to conspiracy theories. 

Not distrust. Questions. We all know that news sources tend to jump to the sensational, then fill in the blanks these days.

[underwaterrhymes]

Sept 15, 2024 19:49:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Lol that people here don't believe the first shooting is fake. It's been implied numerous times in other threads, most recently in the debate thread.

Well, listen, I think he was hit by shrapnel and that the maxipad on his ear was absolute bullshit. His ear is fine. If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, then I guess I am one.

Two people died that day and as much as I hate Trump, I am not calling it a faked attempt. If someone else is here, I haven’t seen it.

[sonrisa]

I’m with pixy on this.

Regardless of the candidate, this does not feel unlikely. Those who think it’s been 40 years since someone attempted similar violence should talk to Paul Pelosi.

The fact that it’s trump in the lead up to an election (ie. Before he is living in the White House and has all the protection of a President) does not feel unlikely. That man sowed so much pain and violence during his tenure. Every week we are a little closer to him possibly regaining that power and unleashing worse. People kill each other for much less.

And even if it were really truly unlikely (which it doesn’t feel to me), low probability things happen all the time. For example, any individual has a very low chance of being struck by lightning. However, it still happens to someone in the US about 5 times a week (on average).

Going straight to conspiracy theories on this helps no one.

[kath16]

Sept 15, 2024 19:07:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 15, 2024 18:52:11 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

Just so we're clear, how many of you still think the first attempt was staged?

The amount of people that I thought were previously rational that shoulder shrug that it wasn't real is more than I would have thought.

thank you.

I was wondering if I was alone in thinking some of this response is gross.

[babsbunny]

I need to go read up on this (as it unfolds). My initial thought based only on what I have learned from this thread is that their escape plan was not well thought out if they got caught so quickly.

TFG's life is going to be shit if he doesn't feel safe, prez or not. I do feel bad about that. More of a reason for him to move out of country if he loses.

[mcsangel2]

Sept 15, 2024 19:53:29 GMT -5 erbear said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:52:30 GMT -5 rubytue said:

But to immediately jump to distrust within hours of the news coming out? That’s the part that’s really getting to me, the fact this thread went almost immediately to conspiracy theories. 

Not distrust. Questions. We all know that news sources tend to jump to the sensational, then fill in the blanks these days.

I don’t know what channels you watch, but CNN and MSNBC don’t report things like this before verifying first.

[heygrey]

I can acknowledge that my first response was flippant. My initial thought was that Trump will embellish the facts of an event to bring the spotlight back to himself. I have no doubt that there are many more attempts to hurt him, and all political leaders in general, that are thwarted by the FBI/security that we will ever know about.

If I had a gun that close to me twice and was really scared, my response would be "gee, we should do something about gun regulation!" but I'm expecting a rational response from someone who has proven to be anything but.

[wanderingback]

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

I’ll prob have more thoughts on other things later, but re: no political assassination attempts in the last 40 years. That’s not correct, no?

The Senate baseball game mass shooting, Gabby Giffords, Paul Pelosi, andJanuary 6th all came to mind immediately. Not sure if there have been others, but those definitely aren’t none!

[erbear]

Sept 16, 2024 5:30:12 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

I’ll prob have more thoughts on other things later, but re: no political assassination attempts in the last 40 years. That’s not correct, no?

The Senate baseball game mass shooting, Gabby Giffords, Paul Pelosi, andJanuary 6th all came to mind immediately. Not sure if there have been others, but those definitely aren’t none!

Oh, sorry, I should have said presidential assassination attempts. I assume the level of security for the president is much higher than that of any other person in government. I could be wrong, but I can’t think of one since Reagan.

Again, I don’t actually think this is a false flag. I’m just saying that I don’t always believe the first story since I think it’s a natural inclination, especially online, to want to break the story and it doesn’t always have the the whole or full or most accurate first take.

[wildrice]

Honestly my biggest concern here is that if someone was able to get this close to him twice, they need to do a better job of protecting people. As a person I do not particularly care if Trump feels or is safe, but as a society it's going to be absolute chaos if he were to be assassinated. And given that most shooters in this country are white men, it makes me fear for Kamala's safety as they don't have a great record of respecting Black people or women in general.

[karinothing]

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

This isn't true. Gabby Giffords was shot in 2011 and the congressional baseball game shooting was in 2017. 

[lilac05]

Sept 16, 2024 6:41:18 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Honestly my biggest concern here is that if someone was able to get this close to him twice, they need to do a better job of protecting people. As a person I do not particularly care if Trump feels or is safe, but as a society it's going to be absolute chaos if he were to be assassinated. And given that most shooters in this country are white men, it makes me fear for Kamala's safety as they don't have a great record of respecting Black people or women in general.

I haven’t seen yet how close he actually was, so maybe I’m off-base here, but when I hear this, I think it’s a good reminder of how protected they are. He didn’t get through anything. He made it to the perimeter of the course, which was being closely monitored by secret service. They spotted him and did exactly what was needed to be done to keep him safe. They can only protect out so far, and being on a private course makes this even more difficult.

[Jalapeñomel]

Sept 16, 2024 7:29:15 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 16, 2024 6:41:18 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Honestly my biggest concern here is that if someone was able to get this close to him twice, they need to do a better job of protecting people. As a person I do not particularly care if Trump feels or is safe, but as a society it's going to be absolute chaos if he were to be assassinated. And given that most shooters in this country are white men, it makes me fear for Kamala's safety as they don't have a great record of respecting Black people or women in general.

I haven’t seen yet how close he actually was, so maybe I’m off-base here, but when I hear this, I think it’s a good reminder of how protected they are. He didn’t get through anything. He made it to the perimeter of the course, which was being closely monitored by secret service. They spotted him and did exactly what was needed to be done to keep him safe. They can only protect out so far, and being on a private course makes this even more difficult.

NPR had a security professional on this morning (sorry can't remember his specific qualifications), and he mentioned that candidates and former presidents don't have as much protection as sitting presidents.  However, it seems that since this has happened before in the recent past, that they would've had extra security measures. But perhaps they did which is why the person was unsuccessful?

[rubytue]

Here is the WP article on the shooter. Apparently, my (free by employment) subscription doesn’t come with gift links. But, if you want to go conspiracy theory, a guy who goes to fight for Ukraine and talks about buying passports for Pakistani is ripe for becoming an asset for foreign spies. Or maybe I watched The American too many times.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/09/15/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-assassination-attempt-suspect/

One of the issues with leaping to conclusions is that on the whole, it’s harder to change opinions than form them. So, if the collective we start down a path, it becomes much hardest to course correct.

[underwaterrhymes]

Sept 16, 2024 7:41:15 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Here is the WP article on the shooter. Apparently, my (free by employment) subscription doesn’t come with gift links. But, if you want to go conspiracy theory, a guy who goes to fight for Ukraine and talks about buying passports for Pakistani is ripe for becoming an asset for foreign spies. Or maybe I watched The American too many times.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/09/15/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-assassination-attempt-suspect/

One of the issues with leaping to conclusions is that on the whole, it’s harder to change opinions than form them. So, if the collective we start down a path, it becomes much hardest to course correct.

I do not think he is an asset of foreign governments. I think he is mentally ill and given this and his previous bouts with law enforcement, is someone who has no business having access to weapons of any kind, let alone ones like this. But I think him gaining access to a gun like this has more to do with our deeply flawed gun laws than any nefarious foreign government intervention.

[laladypoet]

I dunno, man. The man is an unhinged desperate liar and conman who needs to win. Hes not exactly above some bs like this. We arent in normal times. I dont think speculating is woowoo. He set himself up as a person worthy of skepticism.
But thats me. Im not saying its fake. But if people think its fake thats his own damn fault

[wildrice]

Sept 16, 2024 7:29:15 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 16, 2024 6:41:18 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Honestly my biggest concern here is that if someone was able to get this close to him twice, they need to do a better job of protecting people. As a person I do not particularly care if Trump feels or is safe, but as a society it's going to be absolute chaos if he were to be assassinated. And given that most shooters in this country are white men, it makes me fear for Kamala's safety as they don't have a great record of respecting Black people or women in general.

I haven’t seen yet how close he actually was, so maybe I’m off-base here, but when I hear this, I think it’s a good reminder of how protected they are. He didn’t get through anything. He made it to the perimeter of the course, which was being closely monitored by secret service. They spotted him and did exactly what was needed to be done to keep him safe. They can only protect out so far, and being on a private course makes this even more difficult.

This is true - we just don't normally hear about it, do we? I am sure tons of things are thwarted regularly, but it makes me wonder why this one - which doesn't sound like it was particularly close - was big news. I was watching football and one of those ticker things went along the bottom of the screen like this was important breaking news that couldn't wait to be announced. Is that just the media always being a circus when it comes to Trump, or was this an unusual event?

[rubytue]

Sept 16, 2024 8:10:12 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Sept 16, 2024 7:29:15 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I haven’t seen yet how close he actually was, so maybe I’m off-base here, but when I hear this, I think it’s a good reminder of how protected they are. He didn’t get through anything. He made it to the perimeter of the course, which was being closely monitored by secret service. They spotted him and did exactly what was needed to be done to keep him safe. They can only protect out so far, and being on a private course makes this even more difficult.

This is true - we just don't normally hear about it, do we? I am sure tons of things are thwarted regularly, but it makes me wonder why this one - which doesn't sound like it was particularly close - was big news. I was watching football and one of those ticker things went along the bottom of the screen like this was important breaking news that couldn't wait to be announced. Is that just the media always being a circus when it comes to Trump, or was this an unusual event?

1. Shots were fired. So not like a quiet take down. 
2. Trump was shot at two months ago. 

yeah, it’s news for any reason. Not just because Trump. If it had been Harris, it would have been news, too. 

[stuffandthings]

I genuinely cannot wait for this election to be over. I wish we could fast-forward to November 6 or something. This is all so anxiety-producing. GAHHH.

[erbear]

Sept 16, 2024 7:14:21 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Sept 15, 2024 19:29:04 GMT -5 erbear said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to question this. There hasn't been a serious political assassination attempt in the last 40 years, and now there's 2 within the last 2 months, at a time when TFG is slumping in the polls? I don't think this is a false flag, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to question the veracity of what's being put out there.

And of course, this could be a lethal combo of hatred and access to guns, both of which are super problematic.

This isn't true. Gabby Giffords was shot in 2011 and the congressional baseball game shooting was in 2017. 

I cleared this up above. I meant presidential, not political. My bad.

[pixy0stix]

Logically - how do you think this wasn't going to be in the news? Trump is covered 24/7 by the media. Shots were fired, and a chase ensued.

That's it, that's my entire post.