Soul-Searching, Recriminations Within Democratic Party

[penguingrrl]

One thought that I’ve had rattling around for the past few days is that the consolation of everything into big businesses had a huge impact here. The food supply is controlled be a few major corporations and we see small grocery stores being eaten by mega corporations daily. People have been screaming their food prices are up, as they are, but not noticing that these few companies have been raking in record profits on the backs of the people in an industry that traditionally had a fairly low profit margin. I feel like these CEOs were manipulating the grocery market to get a win. Not that they’ll lower prices now since the free market days that people are paging and therefore will pay the high prices, but that they may sit here for a while now to prove that republicans are “better for the economy.” And when it’s all run by a few people that makes it easier to manipulate.

[dontlook]

Nov 8, 2024 7:17:52 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

If you had to summarize the Democratic message in 2024, what was it?

Trump's main message was "I'll fix it & it's their (whatever boogie man) fault!" It worked and people didn't care about anything else or who he was or that he had zero policy plans beyond Project 2025.

The dem's main message was ______? "Not trump"? or "A new way forward" (that's what comes up on google as her slogan)

Not going back and….
Joy
Neither of which resonated with people. People are mad and they want to go back to when (enter food was cheaper, gas was cheaper, they could be openly racist…..)

[Patsy Baloney]

Ooof, I would not compare 4b to incels. Elevating women’s power and safety at the expense of sex/marriage/etc. with men is vastly different than what incel culture is and promotes.

[dontlook]

Nov 8, 2024 5:57:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Nov 7, 2024 22:48:41 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I appreciate that. I was just re-reading my posts and feeling bad. Im reactionary and obviously not super mature lol

I’ve already been operating under the belief that nothing in this thread should be used against people. We are all mad and it’s manifesting in different ways.

The only reason I’m posting what I’m posting is because I felt the urge to look for rationality quickly, and I think it’s related to some mental stuff I’m going through. I mean, it’s good to be rational but I’m also surprised at myself that I’m not just raging right now. I am internally but it’s not manifesting the way it was in 2016.

Only can only blame my new anxiety meds for this new calm me.

[Patsy Baloney]

Nov 8, 2024 7:25:25 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

One thought that I’ve had rattling around for the past few days is that the consolation of everything into big businesses had a huge impact here. The food supply is controlled be a few major corporations and we see small grocery stores being eaten by mega corporations daily. People have been screaming their food prices are up, as they are, but not noticing that these few companies have been raking in record profits on the backs of the people in an industry that traditionally had a fairly low profit margin. I feel like these CEOs were manipulating the grocery market to get a win. Not that they’ll lower prices now since the free market days that people are paging and therefore will pay the high prices, but that they may sit here for a while now to prove that republicans are “better for the economy.” And when it’s all run by a few people that makes it easier to manipulate.

We are definitely living in the golden age of robber barons.

[abs]

I have felt like we were going to lose for probably a year. When Biden dropped out Kamala brought me so much hope and joy. That was such a wonderful few months. If she hadn’t been tied to Biden I think she could have pulled it off. However she was and therefore y’all I’m so mad at Biden! I don’t think that is fair and is extremely irrational but all my anger is at white men these days. I’m so sick of them.

Anyway all that to say we are all in different places in processing things right now. I’ve been in the what we can do different phase for awhile unfortunately.

[karinothing]

Nov 8, 2024 7:36:22 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Ooof, I would not compare 4b to incels. Elevating women’s power and safety at the expense of sex/marriage/etc. with men is vastly different than what incel culture is and promotes.

Not only that ...but come on. MAYBE not all men are violent or abusive to women but even in happy marriages what % of women carry the majority of the mental load in the household? What % do the majority of the domestic work. Even in the most progressive of households the workload is often unequal and marriage seems to benefit men more than women. Its not wrong for women to realize that and make a choice remain single and child free. 

[neverfstop]

Nov 8, 2024 7:36:22 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Ooof, I would not compare 4b to incels. Elevating women’s power and safety at the expense of sex/marriage/etc. with men is vastly different than what incel culture is and promotes.

OK, sorry I didn't read more on it than glancing at it.  I just don't think that disengaging from men is the answer here.  It's not realistic to say don't date men, don' get married, and don't have kids.  

[penguingrrl]

Nov 8, 2024 7:39:42 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nov 8, 2024 7:25:25 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

One thought that I’ve had rattling around for the past few days is that the consolation of everything into big businesses had a huge impact here. The food supply is controlled be a few major corporations and we see small grocery stores being eaten by mega corporations daily. People have been screaming their food prices are up, as they are, but not noticing that these few companies have been raking in record profits on the backs of the people in an industry that traditionally had a fairly low profit margin. I feel like these CEOs were manipulating the grocery market to get a win. Not that they’ll lower prices now since the free market days that people are paging and therefore will pay the high prices, but that they may sit here for a while now to prove that republicans are “better for the economy.” And when it’s all run by a few people that makes it easier to manipulate.

We are definitely living in the golden age of robber barons.

Oh, absolutely. I read somewhere that wealth inequality is even worse now than it was then.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 8, 2024 7:25:25 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

One thought that I’ve had rattling around for the past few days is that the consolation of everything into big businesses had a huge impact here. The food supply is controlled be a few major corporations and we see small grocery stores being eaten by mega corporations daily. People have been screaming their food prices are up, as they are, but not noticing that these few companies have been raking in record profits on the backs of the people in an industry that traditionally had a fairly low profit margin. I feel like these CEOs were manipulating the grocery market to get a win. Not that they’ll lower prices now since the free market days that people are paging and therefore will pay the high prices, but that they may sit here for a while now to prove that republicans are “better for the economy.” And when it’s all run by a few people that makes it easier to manipulate.

I actually believe (or hope lol) that the Rs being in charge will make the true causes of higher grocery prices understood by more people and that there will be a backlash that helps us in 2025 and 2026 elections. Because, while corporate America could let go of their profit-chasing and magically lower costs on January 21st because their guy is headed back to the WH and they’ll reap profits in other ways…they love money too much and won’t let go of squeezing out every cent they can.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 8, 2024 6:55:50 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

yes, it's about vibes & feelings. I think we need to move on from identity politics & be the party of "good government". People have lost faith in government at all levels - school districts, cities, policing, states, feds, agencies. we need to show that it can function better and be a force for good in people's lives. School reform? Health insurance reform? Tax reform? Housing reform? Those are all everyday things that would make drastic improvements in people's lives.

we need a 10 point plan a la the Gingrich "Conrtact with America"

Sooooooo we have one big challenge to overcome. A lot of votes are still being counted in the Pacific states, but the key here is for solid blue states to actually govern effectively too. In my state, we have useless Governor Hochul (who I’m still pissed cancelled congestion pricing in Manhattan, and now it will never happen) and, for NYC residents, corrupt Eric Adams. He may not be everyone’s mayor in this state but NYC has an outsized influence and tie that to the successful messaging that NYC is a lawless hellhole, and people voted for a change from the status quo in this state.

[wanderingback]

Nov 7, 2024 9:14:40 GMT -5 mmmomof2 said:

Nov 7, 2024 5:52:38 GMT -5 meganew said:

And what exactly is so ridiculous about it?

You want to win another election? You have to figure out why these people and no, they are not all racists, misogynists and fascists, leaned to Trump not kick them out of the country. The polarization is part of the problem.

I’m only a few pages in so the conversation has probably moved on, but I have to comment on this.

No, "we" as non politicians do not need to figure this out. It is 100% ok to recognize white supremacy and anti Blackness and say I don’t care about people who voted for him and I’m going to do what I need to do to take care of myself and my community.

[wanderingback]

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

[underwaterrhymes]

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

YES.

FFS, people. These fascist, nationalistic, racist, misogynistic fuckers are already sending awful text messages to Black university students around the country and threatening women with rape. Oh, you didn’t personally send those messages? Well, you voted for someone who supports them and has spewed vitriol himself. You made that bed. Fucking lie in it.

[karinothing]

Just got out of a PTA meeting about what we can do to help families develop safety action plans to protect their children if their parents get picked up by immigration. We are bringing in lawyers and translators and had to discuss how we need to have parents write down their kids favorite comfort objects/food so that they can feel some measure of comfort if the worst happens. Just had parents tell us how they broke it to their kids last night that they were undocumented and what that means. I mean really just fuck anyone that voted for him. These families don't deserve this.

[Bad Dingo]

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

This is what I'm feeling.  I don't think it's a privilege to be able to cut people out because of their beliefs, I think it's required for my mental health.  I'm sorry that people feel they need to keep putting up with their family members or neighbors or community members when these people have shown who they are.  Am I saying to walk around screaming at people? No, but I certainly wouldn't in any way pretend to respect them or go out of my way to associate with them.  Because these ARE bad people, no matter how sad that makes you feel, or how much they may try to justify their choices, it's just facts.

[laladypoet]

Nov 8, 2024 7:55:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Nov 8, 2024 7:36:22 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Ooof, I would not compare 4b to incels. Elevating women’s power and safety at the expense of sex/marriage/etc. with men is vastly different than what incel culture is and promotes.

OK, sorry I didn't read more on it than glancing at it.  I just don't think that disengaging from men is the answer here.  It's not realistic to say don't date men, don' get married, and don't have kids.  

I just dont see a lot of my friends or me being horny for a long time really

[laladypoet]

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

When i say i will not be helping trump supporters from here on out, i mean it. Including family. I will reserve energy for marginalized folks and helping however i can.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 8, 2024 8:48:00 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

YES.

FFS, people. These fascist, nationalistic, racist, misogynistic fuckers are already sending awful text messages to Black university students around the country and threatening women with rape. Oh, you didn’t personally send those messages? Well, you voted for someone who supports them and has spewed vitriol himself. You made that bed. Fucking lie in it.

When I, a perpetually online liberal white woman, didn’t hear this specific story until this post (though am sadly unsurprised by this)…what makes you think millions of other voters knew about this and factored this into their vote?

Obviously there are numerous examples like this and the majority of people should have known what they were voting for, but I ask again, am I supposed to say fuck you to the Palestinian-American woman who voted for Trump as a protest against D policy? Or fuck you to the local Gen Z Black woman interviewed locally who voted for Trump for the first time because she doesn’t feel safe in this city and voted to shake up the status quo? I mean, maybe I should but I’d rather not.

[wanderingback]

Nov 8, 2024 9:11:05 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Nov 8, 2024 8:48:00 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

YES.

FFS, people. These fascist, nationalistic, racist, misogynistic fuckers are already sending awful text messages to Black university students around the country and threatening women with rape. Oh, you didn’t personally send those messages? Well, you voted for someone who supports them and has spewed vitriol himself. You made that bed. Fucking lie in it.

When I, a perpetually online liberal white woman, didn’t hear this specific story until this post (though am sadly unsurprised by this)…what makes you think millions of other voters knew about this and factored this into their vote?

Obviously there are numerous examples like this and the majority of people should have known what they were voting for, but I ask again, am I supposed to say fuck you to the Palestinian-American woman who voted for Trump as a protest against D policy? Or fuck you to the local Gen Z Black woman interviewed locally who voted for Trump for the first time because she doesn’t feel safe in this city and voted to shake up the status quo? I mean, maybe I should but I’d rather not.

To clarify, I don’t think anyone needs to literally say fuck you.
What I’m saying is recognize anti Blackness and white supremacy (and yes Black people absolutely can uphold white supremacy) and act accordingly. Cut these people out of your life and figure out what true organizing, mutual aid, and liberation looks like. It’s not easy, but it also does not look like continuing to perpetuate these ideas and systems that Trump and his voters support.

[wanderingback]

For what it’s worth, the Democratic Party is not perfect and I don’t think that all of their policies are perfect. But we need to recognize how truly fucked up voting for Trump is and act accordingly to cut these people out our lives and organize effectively and appropriately. People have been doing this work for a long time and white people need to recognize that and reflect on how they uphold white supremacy. Voting for Trump is 100% a way that upholds white supremacy.

[sonrisa]

Nov 8, 2024 7:55:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I just don't think that disengaging from men is the answer here.  It's not realistic to say don't date men, don' get married, and don't have kids.  

For you. Plenty of happy lesbians and "spinsters" would disagree. 

Incel is a contraction of "Involuntary Celibacy" and specifically targets these very same women for not being willing to sleep with them. 

Attitudes like this make it hard for ace people to come out.

[basilosaurus]

Nov 8, 2024 7:31:38 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

neverfstop - are you familiar with why 4B started? It is not in any way analogous to the incel movement. It started in South Korea as a response to violence and sexual assault in a profoundly sexist society.

I fully support anyone who wants to adopt that here. Men are overtly threatening women. This is a response to those threats of violence and assault.

Yes. While I don't think you have to have lived in a culture to understand it, but having lived there I fully get the situation and it's definitely in the least like asshole incels.

To dismiss it as same is profoundly ignorant of the culture and the movement

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

I feel like this will just be read as a defensive white lady comment and thought about just not responding to that assertion, but then realized not responding would make people assume the worst too, especially since I’ve been prolifically responding throughout the thread. But no, I do not sit across the table with Trump supporters - my husband has never voted for him, my siblings and cousins I didn’t cut out after 2016 didn’t vote for him, and I even managed to convince my mom not to switch from previous blue votes to him when she strongly considered doing so.

And why did she consider doing the unthinkable despite her previous votes? Because she lives in a safely blue state, supports human rights, but can barely keep a roof over her head and food on the table and is sick of the status quo here. I managed to convince her of the reasons why things are so expensive and that Trump’s policies would be worse for cost of living. Not everyone who did end up switching from blue to red had that person or people to have those conversations with, and it would be rich of me, an upper middle class person who could just cut a few unnecessary activities or services to stick to our tighter budget, to tell someone who’s really suffering in a way I no longer am as a kid from a poor family what there #1 priority needs to be.

[underwaterrhymes]

Nov 8, 2024 9:11:05 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Nov 8, 2024 8:48:00 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

YES.

FFS, people. These fascist, nationalistic, racist, misogynistic fuckers are already sending awful text messages to Black university students around the country and threatening women with rape. Oh, you didn’t personally send those messages? Well, you voted for someone who supports them and has spewed vitriol himself. You made that bed. Fucking lie in it.

When I, a perpetually online liberal white woman, didn’t hear this specific story until this post (though am sadly unsurprised by this)…what makes you think millions of other voters knew about this and factored this into their vote?

Obviously there are numerous examples like this and the majority of people should have known what they were voting for, but I ask again, am I supposed to say fuck you to the Palestinian-American woman who voted for Trump as a protest against D policy? Or fuck you to the local Gen Z Black woman interviewed locally who voted for Trump for the first time because she doesn’t feel safe in this city and voted to shake up the status quo? I mean, maybe I should but I’d rather not.

Trump has been very vocal about who he is for nearly a decade now. They knew he tried to overthrow the government. They knew he is a felon. They knew he is an adjudicated rapist. If there are people who are in the dark about his misogyny and bigotry, it’s a deliberate choice. Now, to be clear, it is not my place to call out marginalized people who voted for him or who stayed home. But am I calling out my fellow white people? YES I AM. I have never shied away from calling people out. Sometimes I have done it in gentle ways, like when I talked to a Black male colleague about how being gay isn’t a choice. And other times I have flown off the handle and screamed at a bunch of college dudes telling racist jokes in my dorm quad area. And still other times, it’s been a combination of the two when loved ones have expressed problematic views.

Yes, let’s have discussions about what we can do better. I still maintain combatting disinformation is the most critical thing we need to focus on.

But fuck no, I will not concede that people didn’t knowingly choose a bigoted rapist felon who tried to dismantle democracy. They need to own that because that is exactly what they did. I am incandescent with rage because people I love and people I don’t know are going to lose everything.

[Patsy Baloney]

Nov 8, 2024 9:20:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 8, 2024 7:55:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I just don't think that disengaging from men is the answer here.  It's not realistic to say don't date men, don' get married, and don't have kids.  

For you. Plenty of happy lesbians and "spinsters" would disagree. 

Incel is a contraction of "Involuntary Celibacy" and specifically targets these very same women for not being willing to sleep with them. 

Attitudes like this make it hard for ace people to come out.

I quoted that several times and could not articulate what you did. Thank you for being able to call that out.

I also wanted to add that I think it’s important to note that because literally everyone is not ceasing to have sex with men, be married to men, etc., does not make a movement unrealistic or ineffective.

People in groups have power - remember the women’s strike?

I just don’t think it’s appropriate to label something basically as “silly women stuff that won’t work” when it has grown out of a need for safety.

[dontlook]

Nov 8, 2024 9:23:33 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Nov 8, 2024 9:11:05 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

When I, a perpetually online liberal white woman, didn’t hear this specific story until this post (though am sadly unsurprised by this)…what makes you think millions of other voters knew about this and factored this into their vote?

Obviously there are numerous examples like this and the majority of people should have known what they were voting for, but I ask again, am I supposed to say fuck you to the Palestinian-American woman who voted for Trump as a protest against D policy? Or fuck you to the local Gen Z Black woman interviewed locally who voted for Trump for the first time because she doesn’t feel safe in this city and voted to shake up the status quo? I mean, maybe I should but I’d rather not.

Trump has been very vocal about who he is for nearly a decade now. They knew he tried to overthrow the government. They knew he is a felon. They knew he is an adjudicated rapist. If there are people who are in the dark about his misogyny and bigotry, it’s a deliberate choice. Now, to be clear, it is not my place to call out marginalized people who voted for him or who stayed home. But am I calling out my fellow white people? YES I AM. I have never shied away from calling people out. Sometimes I have done it in gentle ways, like when I talked to a Black male colleague about how being gay isn’t a choice. And other times I have flown off the handle and screamed at a bunch of college dudes telling racist jokes in my dorm quad area. And still other times, it’s been a combination of the two when loved ones have expressed problematic views.

Yes, let’s have discussions about what we can do better. I still maintain combatting disinformation is the most critical thing we need to focus on.

But fuck no, I will not concede that people didn’t knowingly choose a bigoted rapist felon who tried to dismantle democracy. They need to own that because that is exactly what they did. I am incandescent with rage because people I love and people I don’t know are going to lose everything.

I don’t want to come across as a Trump apologist AT ALL but there are a shocking number of people who literally don’t know anything about him except a yard sign they saw. I’m not joking. I’m listening to podcasts and they talked about door knocking to houses that had no clue who the candidates even were. Now, maybe those people didn’t vote, but maybe they did. I can’t even fathom living in a world in which I’m that unaware.

Disclaimer- the majority of these Trump voters mostly certainly knew and support his racist plan for America. I’m not excusing anyone. I’m just pointing out that some people are disgustingly unaware of anything other than themselves.

[wanderingback]

Nov 8, 2024 9:22:26 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Nov 8, 2024 8:41:33 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I’m only a few pages in and about to be at work so will have to read the rest later, but long sigh at some of the responses re: essentially needing to pander to the other side. No.

I’m going to assume it’s because most of you all are white women and are sitting across the table from your husband, dad, cousin, friend, etc who voted for Trump and can’t reconcile that.

You all need to have a deep reflection about that and what you can and should do about that. Have you had the hard conversations? Have you cut people out your life? Have you truly talked about white supremacy? This country was founded on white supremacy so all of what is happening is not surprising so you all need to take a look in the mirror and remember when you had those cute "black lives matter" signs in your windows.

I feel like this will just be read as a defensive white lady comment and thought about just not responding to that assertion, but then realized not responding would make people assume the worst too, especially since I’ve been prolifically responding throughout the thread. But no, I do not sit across the table with Trump supporters - my husband has never voted for him, my siblings and cousins I didn’t cut out after 2016 didn’t vote for him, and I even managed to convince my mom not to switch from previous blue votes to him when she strongly considered doing so.

And why did she consider doing the unthinkable despite her previous votes? Because she lives in a safely blue state, supports human rights, but can barely keep a roof over her head and food on the table and is sick of the status quo here. I managed to convince her of the reasons why things are so expensive and that Trump’s policies would be worse for cost of living. Not everyone who did end up switching from blue to red had that person or people to have those conversations with, and it would be rich of me, an upper middle class person who could just cut a few unnecessary activities or services to stick to our tighter budget, to tell someone who’s really suffering in a way I no longer am as a kid from a poor family what there #1 priority needs to be.

Ok great. If what I said above does not apply to you then that’s wonderful. You can still reflect and take it a step further. We can all continue to learn and grow and reflect on how we can undo anti Blackness and white supremacy.

[underwaterrhymes]

dontlook - I hear that. And I also hear that people are struggling financially. I also really don’t think most of them are aware of what they have done and the level of destruction and chaos that is coming. I am furious at what people have thrown away. People are going to lose basic human rights and the economy is going to tank. I know I am coming off enraged and grief stricken and that is part of the process for me. I am also mobilizing, though, and will be more rational later.

But I refuse to let people who KNOW who he is off the hook.

[fryjack2]

Nov 7, 2024 10:38:12 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:36:50 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

Do you believe every vote cast for Trump was by a racist?

I believe every vote cast for Trump was 100% willing to at least overlook racism to get cheap eggs.

so Nazi-adjacent.

Ive read 7 pages of this thread so admit I don't know what else has been said.

While I agree with that statement, How come people aren't saying the same about Harris?  "every vote cast for Harris was 100% willing to at least overlook the funding of a genocide to get XYZ."

Why was it ok for Dems who may not agree with everything the party is doing to still vote for Harris, yet we are asking Republicans to not do the same when it comes to their option? 

There are more than human rights issues that people voted for/against. Humans at their core are selfish.  Lord of the Flies would play out over and over.