Yea. The occasional drink after a run is one thing. Asking him to go to a concert, and then a BBQ, neither of which your invited to, hell no. It doesn't sound like your husband is too interested since he has no issue canceling if you don't want him to go, but to me she is being too forward and "friendly". Esp to be inviting him to things like that, on a weekend, without you. H and I have friends whose SO we don't like. We still invite them anyway, since couples are a package deal IMO. Anything else would tell me she wanted him alone.
This is basically where I'm at. Her throwing out "I don't tend to get along w/ other women" as an excuse to not include you - wrong.
Here's my perspective on friendships w/ the opposite sex- yes, they can happen. But what is so important is that they have to be a "friend to the marriage", so to speak. You and her don't have to be "friends" per se, but she wants to go to a concert w/ your DH? She wants to invite him to a BBQ? She better damn well invite you too. She doesn't get to be friends w/ your DH in a vacuum where she can ignore the fact that he's married.
Getting drinks after training is one thing. Any social event outside of that - she absolutely should be including you too.
She's an adult and should be capable of basic common courtesies/ politeness when around you. If her "I don't get along w/ women" actually extends to the degree she can't even be around you/ polite to you, then she gets a HUGE side-eye from me.
I"m glad that your DH kind of "got it" when you broke down.
As for the phone - does he normally keep his texts? I am always clearing out my texts. I hate having a long list of texts. So that in and of itself doesn't really concern me- unless you know they are texting and that's the ONLY conversation you can't find record of.
I don't know that they texted- I assumed that. But all other texts are there. He told me he didn't see her in person, so the missing text/call history is weird. Again, my gut feeling is that he deleted it. I don't know why. My gut also says that he wouldn't put our marriage in danger.
The loss has been straining on life in general but has brought us so, so close. I know that he needs me. I believe that nothing is going on, on his end anyway. I do question her motives. But like LHC said, I think he is flattered/clueless.
I'm sure part of this, too, is that she's some random nobody with whom he doesn't have any history. He can ignore a lot of shit that way / avoid dealing with a lot of shit that way. And it can be nice for a while, but if he begins to lean on her as a method of escapism, that's unhealthy. Know what I mean?
Yep. I agree.
There is a part of me that feels guilty for being such a downer recently, and I know the running/beer buddy is his escape. There are two issues there, and one is on me. But yeah, she shouldnt begin to lean on her. I'll mention that to him.
Post by foundmylazybum on Mar 10, 2013 16:21:29 GMT -5
So...I have a couple questions...that are seriously--running based...but it might be another direction you could go in with your husband.
It sounds like your husband is a pretty good runner. Do you live in a place where this is the ONLY coach available? Is she the best coach? What makes him drawn to have a female coach?
Are there any other runners and coaches he could work with where it's more of a group atmosphere?
I'm not saying at all he needs to drop the coach--but I've been in pretty much exactly the same situation you are in now--except--flip it around to where I was the runner--and my coach was male...and this Coach-Athlete relationship caused tension in my marriage--but it also was limiting my potential as a runner.
I will just put it out there--that for ME (and this is just me personally)...I started asking some of the above questions...and...I actually ended up dropping my coach..not actually because he was male..but because the isolation between the two of us was limiting my running.
It was ALWAYS just me and him...rather than me being pushed by other runners, physically and mentally.
Also when it was just me and him--to be honest it was really easy to just get done running and go do things on our own..build our own friendship--and it was about running. If you aren't a runner...sometimes it's easy to get left behind (sorry spouse--I know that's horrible but it's a reality)
When I joined a running group that was still coached by a male, but balanced out by males, females, married people, single people--it was sooo much...better! Yeah, we had running in common but there were LOTS of other interests--and we did things as a GROUP and yep...MH was ALWAYS invited--because guess what...there were lots of other "non runner" spouses who could 1) relate to our freaking nerdiness and 2) had other interests! Oh..and by the way I totally improved as a runner.
I think it's worth a conversation with your husband to just ask...exactly what he really gets from this coaching relationship in terms of his RUNNING...and to possibly explore other options that might be available..couching it in terms of his athletic ability could be helpful..rather than YOUR relationship...
Because trust me, when MH brought this up to me...I was empathetic but I also *kinda* had a hard time too...
The other thing that your DH needs to consider is the message that this sends to this woman. I'm not talking about his intentions. I'm talking about the unintentional message he may be sending. For him to go out w/ her on a consistent basis w/o you - SHE may absolutely very well start to think that he's having problems in his marriage, that he is interested her, etc.
And I also wonder what they talk about. Does she ever ask about you? Does she ask about things that the two of you do together? Does HE ever talk about you/ his day to day life? Or is this really a total "escape from my life" friendship?
Because if there isn't any interest on her part in his life and if he in turn doesn't talk about you - that can also be interpreted as he doesn't WANT to talk about you.
So - I think you need to talk to him about this aspect of it too.
Post by sparkle3810 on Mar 10, 2013 16:40:46 GMT -5
They were in a running club that ran in the evenings. He preferred to run in the afternoon with the other guy, just based on schedules, and this girl was the only coach available during the day. But really, I have no problem with a female coach. And I'd prefer he be home in the evenings.
I hadn't thought of how she would take it, but that's a good point. I'll mention it.
I also feel like she is a bit shady, but I don't want to be the naive wife who blames the woman either.
I am sorry for your loss. Have both or either of you ever talked to a counselor? I only ask because I had two losses, one being that of a newborn, and it obviously rocked my world and I had a bit of an identity crisis for about the first year after. Sounds like your husband enjoys running as an outlet, but I would absolutely have concerns about him hanging out with a single woman, especially with the changes your have gone through with your loss. It wouldn't hurt to run some of this by a counselor is all I am suggesting.
I am sorry for your loss. Have both or either of you ever talked to a counselor? I only ask because I had two losses, one being that of a newborn, and it obviously rocked my world and I had a bit of an identity crisis for about the first year after. Sounds like your husband enjoys running as an outlet, but I would absolutely have concerns about him hanging out with a single woman, especially with the changes your have gone through with your loss. It wouldn't hurt to run some of this by a counselor is all I am suggesting.
I am seeing a perinatal loss counselor. He isn't going. I'll mention it to her but he is adamant that he doesn't want to go.
This would not be okay in our marriage, no. Not for either of us. I am in the "a drink after a run is NBD but the other invites are weird" camp. And the "I don't usually get along with women" thing, ugggghhh, I can't stand when women say that.
So no, I would not be cool with this situation and neither would H.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Mar 10, 2013 17:57:02 GMT -5
First, I am so, so sorry for your loss. I'm glad you're seeing a grief counselor to work through those emotions.
Regardless of what would and would not be acceptable in any of our marriages, what matters is only is this acceptable in yours.
I think it's really important to be open with him on your level of comfort with this relationship. It sounds like he's willing to discuss it with you and to change plans based on how you're feeling about it, so that's a good thing.
FWIW, while I don't necessarily see any red flags with the drinks and concert invite, I do kind of side-eye the BBQ invite, particularly since presumably it wouldn't have been a big deal to include you. To me that seems a way of further ingratiating him into her social circle, but I don't know her so I could be way off base with my thoughts on this.
If I were developing an emotional affair with a friend, and my H confronted me about it and said he wasn't comfortable with it, I might reply to cancel the concert and then delete the thread, as a symbol and a fresh start. To remind myself that I shouldn't be texting this person. Just because the text is missing doesn't mean it's because there was incriminating content. He might have realized you were right and decided to stop talking to her.
Also, I agree with others. I don't think your H fully realized what was going on until you said something, but I do this this woman was trying to edge in on him. I mean, going to a BBQ without inviting you? That's taking him as her date. It's not like there is limited seating at a BBQ and there would be no room for you. She doesn't want to get to know you, and that's a red flag.
Stand your ground and get this woman out of your life. Sometimes people can't see that they're playing with fire until it's too late.
If I were developing an emotional affair with a friend, and my H confronted me about it and said he wasn't comfortable with it, I might reply to cancel the concert and then delete the thread, as a symbol and a fresh start. To remind myself that I shouldn't be texting this person. Just because the text is missing doesn't mean it's because there was incriminating content. He might have realized you were right and decided to stop talking to her.
This is a good point. YEARS ago (like 20), in the first year of our relationship, DH became friends w/ a woman where I had issues with it. Once I confronted him about it and we talked about it, he - fully on his own - decided to just shut that friendship down. It wasn't a friendship that he felt was worth hurting me over.
So, yea, it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing that he deleted a text conversation w/ her.
They were in a running club that ran in the evenings. He preferred to run in the afternoon with the other guy, just based on schedules, and this girl was the only coach available during the day. But really, I have no problem with a female coach. And I'd prefer he be home in the evenings.
I hadn't thought of how she would take it, but that's a good point. I'll mention it.
I also feel like she is a bit shady, but I don't want to be the naive wife who blames the woman either.
She may very well be but your H is the one who is married to you and he's able to make his own decisions, so please don't put the blame on her. I've already said I don't think he's done anything but I do believe you need to talk and he needs to truly realize that if he continues spending time with her, making plans etc, he could jeopardize your trust and marriage.
I don't think we need to post hijack, but no, I am not sacrificing business development opportunities because men I work with or for have jealous wives. In an industry that is 80% male if I refused to hang out alone with men I would be at a severe disadvantage against my male colleagues. And bullshit the woman always knows. Sometimes the woman is just insecure.
Come on. You know you didn't make it sound business related in your first post. If it's business related, why would you have to sneak around?
How the fuck should I know why the husbands have to sneak around? I certainly don't, my husband knows and trusts me. There is a lot of drinking among lawyers, and a lot of cross-referrals come out of social relationships that aren't strictly "necessary." I go out with men one on one, at night, for dinner and drinks, a few times a month. My male colleagues do the same, but there is a perception among many women this is wrong (male:female). And this is directly relevant in this context because OP also wants her DH to sever what for the woman is a business relationship. If someone doesn't trust her husband, that's really a personal issue. Blaming the woman sucks. It's not her responsibility.
If I were developing an emotional affair with a friend, and my H confronted me about it and said he wasn't comfortable with it, I might reply to cancel the concert and then delete the thread, as a symbol and a fresh start. To remind myself that I shouldn't be texting this person. Just because the text is missing doesn't mean it's because there was incriminating content. He might have realized you were right and decided to stop talking to her.
This is a good point. YEARS ago (like 20), in the first year of our relationship, DH became friends w/ a woman where I had issues with it. Once I confronted him about it and we talked about it, he - fully on his own - decided to just shut that friendship down. It wasn't a friendship that he felt was worth hurting me over.
So, yea, it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing that he deleted a text conversation w/ her.
I see the point here, but now I'm wondering why she isnt even coming up as a contact. I didn't go through the entire contact list to see if she is in there under another name, but she isn't there under her first name.
I may be over thinking this. But I don't like hiding things either.
Come on. You know you didn't make it sound business related in your first post. If it's business related, why would you have to sneak around?
How the fuck should I know why the husbands have to sneak around? I certainly don't, my husband knows and trusts me. There is a lot of drinking among lawyers, and a lot of cross-referrals come out of social relationships that aren't strictly "necessary." I go out with men one on one, at night, for dinner and drinks, a few times a month. My male colleagues do the same, but there is a perception among many women this is wrong (male:female). And this is directly relevant in this context because OP also wants her DH to sever what for the woman is a business relationship. If someone doesn't trust her husband, that's really a personal issue. Blaming the woman sucks. It's not her responsibility.
Running together is their professional relationship. Drinking together is not a big deal to me, after a run, but is not part of the professional relationship. Going to concerts and/or parties is not professional. That's where, I think, a line is crossed.
And yeah, I'm not a huge fan of her. But I don't blame her. I know this is on my husband and I acknowledge that I'm being sensitive and jealous.
How the fuck should I know why the husbands have to sneak around? I certainly don't, my husband knows and trusts me. There is a lot of drinking among lawyers, and a lot of cross-referrals come out of social relationships that aren't strictly "necessary." I go out with men one on one, at night, for dinner and drinks, a few times a month. My male colleagues do the same, but there is a perception among many women this is wrong (male:female). And this is directly relevant in this context because OP also wants her DH to sever what for the woman is a business relationship. If someone doesn't trust her husband, that's really a personal issue. Blaming the woman sucks. It's not her responsibility.
Running together is their professional relationship. Drinking together is not a big deal to me, after a run, but is not part of the professional relationship. Going to concerts and/or parties is not professional. That's where, I think, a line is crossed.
And yeah, I'm not a huge fan of her. But I don't blame her. I know this is on my husband and I acknowledge that I'm being sensitive and jealous.
I agree with you that there's a difference between an activity directly after their professional engagement and planning a weekend of non-running events together without you.
It's the context that matters most. If you're meeting with a person of the opposite sex who is in the same industry after work for networking, then that's totally cool. If you're spending a weekend of social/work activities with an out of town client or associate, then by all means do so. But the activities OP is describing don't sound like that's the case. And if it isn't, then I agree it's a bit weird depending on the couple and their relationship.
Sparkle - I am sorry, that wasn't directed at you, you have been very good aout not blaming the woman. Who, frankly, doesn't sound that likable. Truthfully, I think she is using the not so subtle "appeal to his ego so he continues to hire me" method of marketing. She isn't a threat to you, she probably doesn't want your husband, and your husband probably is flattered but would never cheat on you. Men like to be flirted with. No matter how loyal, they love it. I think that's all that's going on, I really do, but you are having a hard time and if you don't want him going to a concert with her then that's totally your prerogative. I am sorry about the miscarriage. <<<hugs>>>
Post by sparkle3810 on Mar 10, 2013 20:44:25 GMT -5
We are on the West Coast. It is now 6:45 and I asked H (all innocently) about the BBQ. It is tonight. I suggested we stop by, acting like I didn't realize I wasn't invited. He thinks that it'd be fun.
Maybe he thought I was invited, maybe I've been wrong, maybe he is clueless.
But now I'm considering it. Just to get a better read on the situation.
And I've been day drinking, so it sounds like a good idea.
This seems weird, especially that she doesn't include you on the invite, or so says your H.
When you talk to him, reverse the situation. I don't think he would be all lah dee dah about it about if some new single male friend of your was doing the same thing.
Sparkle - I am sorry, that wasn't directed at you, you have been very good aout not blaming the woman. Who, frankly, doesn't sound that likable. Truthfully, I think she is using the not so subtle "appeal to his ego so he continues to hire me" method of marketing. She isn't a threat to you, she probably doesn't want your husband, and your husband probably is flattered but would never cheat on you. Men like to be flirted with. No matter how loyal, they love it. I think that's all that's going on, I really do, but you are having a hard time and if you don't want him going to a concert with her then that's totally your prerogative. I am sorry about the miscarriage. <<<hugs>>>
I am not sure where you see all of this blaming the other woman in here.
There is plenty of it in this thread; not from you, but the term "shady bitch" was used. At least 4 posts in here blame the coach. Again, I saw where you said not to. But others did.
We are on the West Coast. It is now 6:45 and I asked H (all innocently) about the BBQ. It is tonight. I suggested we stop by, acting like I didn't realize I wasn't invited. He thinks that it'd be fun.
Maybe he thought I was invited, maybe I've been wrong, maybe he is clueless.
But now I'm considering it. Just to get a better read on the situation.
And I've been day drinking, so it sounds like a good idea.
Ok or not?
Definitely go.
ETA: if this is an AE, and you are who I think you are, don't even worry about this. There's no way he would cheat on you. You are amazing.
Also, I am of the mind that if your spouse is upset enough by something to ask you not to do it, that should be enough. It doesn't matter if it is not a big deal to you, it is to them and it is hurting them and THAT should be the point.
We are on the West Coast. It is now 6:45 and I asked H (all innocently) about the BBQ. It is tonight. I suggested we stop by, acting like I didn't realize I wasn't invited. He thinks that it'd be fun.
Maybe he thought I was invited, maybe I've been wrong, maybe he is clueless.
But now I'm considering it. Just to get a better read on the situation.
And I've been day drinking, so it sounds like a good idea.
Ok or not?
Definitely go.
ETA: if this is an AE, and you are who I think you are, don't even worry about this. There's no way he would cheat on you. You are amazing.
Now I feel bad. I'm not an AE- promise. I'm a lurker. I was active on another TN board before the transition. but never made the switch to proboards. No one on ML would remember my name.
If your gut tells you there is something not right, go with it. I don't want to list all the details but I had a husband that everyone, including my parents, would have sworn would never do anything he shouldn't. But he put himself in a situation with a younger female (work related) and liked her attention. He ended up in an emotional affair and kissed (or more) and I caught it because of a random bad feeling I had. I looked at phone records which I had never done in our entire marriage and one number came up a bunch. Tried to look at his work phone while he was in shower but the number wasn't saved as a contact and all messages were deleted.
Anyway, if you feel uncomfortable he should willingly step back. It's not worth your marriage.
Post by sparkle3810 on Mar 11, 2013 8:12:19 GMT -5
We went.
She said hello when we arrived and goodbye when we left and ignored us for the two hours in between.
I'm really regretting that we went. I feel like I've now set up the mentality that a non-professional relationship is ok, when I shouldn't have done that. It was a drunken decision that I now regret.
I know he had texted her yesterday to get the address. Again, the texts have been deleted. I don't know what to make of that. It feels like he is hiding it.