The nurse needs to come down just a touch. I understand why she is all dramatic but come on...she is a liar who just wants to be up in this ladies business.
WHAT THE MF is with the CPS lady? Abuse of power much? Move a freaking stop?? Really?
Nurse was wrong for lying and Mom shouldn't have left the kids in the car. I see both sides of it (except for lies), but I know in my county the laws specifically say that no child under 7 can be left alone for any period time, including in cars or backyards.
Not in your backyard? Even if its fenced? Is there an explosive diarrhea exemption? Can they be left alone inside your own house?
Jesus things have changed.
I honestly didn't even know it was that intense until a friend posted a screen shot to FB. I went back and checked and it does say "the determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene"
So... if you are cooking dinner with the windows open and can hear/glance over at them, maybe you're good? Explosive diarrhea the bathroom door shut? Ehhh... I would get a pants person.
You guys are crazy. Don't leave three kids in the car that look like they're passed out to the random passerbyer. If it was 60s then that means we should estimate that it's 80 in the car because don't they say add 20°? The nurse may have over estimated the time but who knows maybe she just lost track of time because she was worried about the kids in the car alone. Better safe than sorry.
So knock on the windows and wake them to make sure they're alive. This I would have understood. Calling and lying to the police followed by calling CPS? That makes the nurse bat shit crazy.
Post by Booze Raccoon on Sept 20, 2013 8:16:50 GMT -5
Initially I stopped reading when she left the kids in the car. Then I started reading the replies so I went back and read the whole post.
My first reaction stands. Don't leave the kids in the car. She could have avoided the whole mess.
I'm not saying the nurse was right, and I can't speak to what CPS does or doesn't do, but I would never ever leave children in a car. As far as I know, it is illegal here. But I know we've debated this here before.
Post by whattheheck on Sept 20, 2013 8:18:10 GMT -5
Not particularly helpful or relevant at this point - but if the co-pay was already made and the pharmacy is really within sight of the car, that is when you call the pharmacy and beg them to please bring the medicine out to the car.
You guys are crazy. Don't leave three kids in the car that look like they're passed out to the random passerbyer. If it was 60s then that means we should estimate that it's 80 in the car because don't they say add 20°? The nurse may have over estimated the time but who knows maybe she just lost track of time because she was worried about the kids in the car alone. Better safe than sorry.
But to call the cops AFTER the mom gets there? And then lie? And how do you get 30 minutes from less than 5?
Post by snipsnsnails on Sept 20, 2013 8:19:35 GMT -5
She did knock on the windows? One of the kids may or may have not been crying before that, but they were screaming after. Why would I want to err on the side of a mother who I think is showing poor judgement? I want to err on the side of caution when it comes to children. Always.
You guys are crazy. Don't leave three kids in the car that look like they're passed out to the random passerbyer. If it was 60s then that means we should estimate that it's 80 in the car because don't they say add 20°? The nurse may have over estimated the time but who knows maybe she just lost track of time because she was worried about the kids in the car alone. Better safe than sorry.
listen, i don't know what i think about 90% of this story, but there is not even the teensiest smallest most miniscule chance on earth that that nurse thought that some time less than 3 minutes and 45 seconds (the documented max time the mother was gone) was 30 minutes.
she straight up, flat out, bald-face lied about it (twice) to at least two different government enforcement officials.
maybe she was terrified or coming from a good place or whatever. but she's also a liar. a liar whose lies resulted in the expenditure of public services in unnecessary fashion (i'll give her the call to the police, but a call to CPS after 3:45 confirmed? hell no.).
The nurse was way, WAY out of line with lying to the cops and then calling CPS. Wtf? I can't say much about CPS - it seems extreme and nitpicky, but maybe they WERE just following procedure, I don't know.
I have to agree, though, that as much as it would have sucked to wake them, Mom should not have left the kids alone in the car. Just too many variables and too much room for something to go wrong, even if she could see them from inside the pharmacy.
I know the training the nurse had. I had the same training. I am ok with a well being check. Great. Excellent work. But when you see everything is ok, see that mom really was only gone for a few, the kids are ok, leave it. Don't call the cops, then while they are there call CPS. Not your place.
I stand by my friend in doing what she did. I have been there. I know not everyone will agree, but that's ok.
Not particularly helpful or relevant at this point - but if the co-pay was already made and the pharmacy is really within sight of the car, that is when you call the pharmacy and beg them to please bring the medicine out to the car.
I did this one day just after we moved DD into a convertible seat. I called in a lunch order to a local place and she fell asleep on the drive I called and asked and one of the servers ran it out to me. NBD. In general I think most people will help in that situation because everyone bets the not wanting to wake sleeping kids.
And so your friend knows? I get she's pissed but calling up CPS and chewing them out while you're still the subject of an investigation is the surest, fastest way to have those people ALL over your ass, for the longest period of time possible. None of this would have happened if she had not left her kids in the car unattended. THAT was the trigger event. I get all the mitigating circumstances, I understand why, it really was only a few minutes, no the nurse should not have made up stuff, blah blah blah.
But you cannot possibly think CPS would not investigate a complaint of this nature, regardless of the amount of time the children were alone in the car with no one to help them in case of emergency, and in fact they were left alone. By their mother. Frazzled, overworked, unpaid, super stressed mother, doing what she thought was going to get her home the fastest with her sick kid I get that. Calling up CPS to complain about their investigative techniques is not helpful however, and putting the kid on the bus while they're saying HEY we need to see the kid in place was also stupid.
Your friend does not sound like she's dealing with this very well. Cooperation is the goal here, not attacking CPS .
If she wouldn't have put her kid on the bus, she would have been in trouble for not sending her kid to school. They were there after school started, so her kid would have missed school. She was in a no win. She probably should have waited to compose herself, yes, but after the events of the last 24 hours I don't know what I would have done.
Not particularly helpful or relevant at this point - but if the co-pay was already made and the pharmacy is really within sight of the car, that is when you call the pharmacy and beg them to please bring the medicine out to the car.
I don't know if she asked or not, but great suggestion!
Post by EmilieMadison on Sept 20, 2013 9:26:21 GMT -5
Nurse was SO wrong. That's horrible. But mom was wrong first. This is one of the reasons you should never leave your kids in the car. Not just the heat, or kidnapping, or car jacking. But concerned citizens who may cross the crazy line to teach you a lesson.
This is one of the reasons you should never leave your kids in the car. Not just the heat, or kidnapping, or car jacking. But concerned citizens who may cross the crazy line to teach you a lesson.
There are certain decisions I've made in regards to DS specifically because of the thought "what will a stranger think?". I hate that I have to think that way, but clearly there are people who will go overboard in their efforts to "do the right thing".
Post by snipsnsnails on Sept 20, 2013 9:41:16 GMT -5
If she could see the car from inside, why didn't she see a stranger start pounding on her windows? And if she did, might that be a contributing reason to why she dashed out of there quickly?
And, if she told the cops and nurse she understood if it were longer, but she was gone less than 5 minutes like you mentioned in the OP, surely she understands that something could always happen in less than 5 minutes. I mean, calculated risks - that sums up parenting. And I say this as someone who regularly carts around 3 children under 3. I get that it stinks to take them in, but there are a million things she could've done differently.
Also, the cop did say that CPS might need to talk to her again. I think you said that in your OP, yeah? I think it takes a certain amount of cajones to tell CPS that you'll be back b/c you have to put your kid on the bus when they're there to investigate you and your home.
This is one of the reasons you should never leave your kids in the car. Not just the heat, or kidnapping, or car jacking. But concerned citizens who may cross the crazy line to teach you a lesson.
There are certain decisions I've made in regards to DS specifically because of the thought "what will a stranger think?". I hate that I have to think that way, but clearly there are people who will go overboard in their efforts to "do the right thing".
If she could see the car from inside, why didn't she see a stranger start pounding on her windows? And if she did, might that be a contributing reason to why she dashed out of there quickly?
And, if she told the cops and nurse she understood if it were longer, but she was gone less than 5 minutes like you mentioned in the OP, surely she understands that something could always happen in less than 5 minutes. I mean, calculated risks - that sums up parenting. And I say this as someone who regularly carts around 3 children under 3. I get that it stinks to take them in, but there are a million things she could've done differently.
Also, the cop did say that CPS might need to talk to her again. I think you said that in your OP, yeah? I think it takes a certain amount of cajones to tell CPS that you'll be back b/c you have to put your kid on the bus when they're there to investigate you and your home.
She was picking up medicine, she said she didn't see anything amiss when she walked out, but when she got out she saw the nurse standing next to the door. Per oldest child it was not long at all mom came out. No dashing per mom.
She would have been in trouble for NOT sending kid to school. They showed up with no call, etc. she can't not send her child to school. If she hadn't put child on bus and waited to bring them to school until after the investigator left the child would have been late. The school would need a reason for tardiness. What does she say? Oh, CPS wouldn't let child come until after they left, sorry! Make sure Little Mozart gets to class, tata!
Per the police they should not have even been coming. She gave them the information needed. The police advised it was closed.
If she could see the car from inside, why didn't she see a stranger start pounding on her windows? And if she did, might that be a contributing reason to why she dashed out of there quickly?
And, if she told the cops and nurse she understood if it were longer, but she was gone less than 5 minutes like you mentioned in the OP, surely she understands that something could always happen in less than 5 minutes. I mean, calculated risks - that sums up parenting. And I say this as someone who regularly carts around 3 children under 3. I get that it stinks to take them in, but there are a million things she could've done differently.
Also, the cop did say that CPS might need to talk to her again. I think you said that in your OP, yeah? I think it takes a certain amount of cajones to tell CPS that you'll be back b/c you have to put your kid on the bus when they're there to investigate you and your home.
She was picking up medicine, she said she didn't see anything amiss when she walked out, but when she got out she saw the nurse standing next to the door. Per oldest child it was not long at all mom came out. No dashing per mom.
She would have been in trouble for NOT sending kid to school. They showed up with no call, etc. she can't not send her child to school. If she hadn't put child on bus and waited to bring them to school until after the investigator left the child would have been late. The school would need a reason for tardiness. What does she say? Oh, CPS wouldn't let child come until after they left, sorry! Make sure Little Mozart gets to class, tata!
Per the police they should not have even been coming. She gave them the information needed. The police advised it was closed.
Your friend sounds like she's frazzled. If CPS shows up, you cooperate. You can call the school afterward to explain. Even provide documentation if they need.
And you said, "Cop tells mom she may have to talk to CPS even though cop is clearing incident."
I get that she's your friend. I do. I even get that she's frazzled. But I think your retelling is overly biased here and she is still in a defensive mode where she wants to justify her action that triggered all of this. The reality is, her actions could've led to something bad happening to her kids. And someone reported that. So, now the proper authority is investigating it. They might deem it was fine; I'm sure they will.
Post by MixedBerryJam on Sept 20, 2013 9:59:58 GMT -5
I love that the kid stood her ground and didn't open the door. The nurse was not out of line for knocking on the window to get the kids' attention, but it sounds like she went berserk, which was her first mistake. Calling the cops was not wrong, but lying, exaggerating, etc. was her second mistake. Nurse calling CPS after the police were involved was her third mistake. Mom "should" not have left the kids in the car, so that was a mistake. She should have worked with CPS on the unannounced next-day home visit; she could have kept the kid off the bus and driven her in late. It's not like the school cranks up the drawbridge after 8:31, after all. CPS was wrong to critique the busstop. I see scads of mistakes being made, but that little kid not caving to an adult who "demands" something by virtue of the fact that she's an adult, I just love that kid. Clearly the mom is doing something right!
Does anyone think it is odd and creepy that she tried to get the kid to open the door and said it was 'ok because she was a friend' ?
VERY. VERY VERY VERY. Fine, wake the kid up. But then ask "are you o.k.? Where is your mom?". You don't need the door open to do that.
This is why the nurses actions/reactions bother me. She SOOOOO over exaggerated/ over reacted, then trying to get the child to open the door?
The woman is "off" on some level.
I'm here. That poor mum. Sure she used poor judgement about leaving the kids. But I've left Fred in the car to pay for gas when I couldn't pay at the pump Feels like the same thing.
That nurse sounds totally psycho. The lying to police, to cps and the kids. Understandably the kids were scared shitless.
Does anyone think it is odd and creepy that she tried to get the kid to open the door and said it was 'ok because she was a friend' ?
Another great reason to not leave your kids in the car.
Very creepy. But her child did as taught. Said no, didn't budge.
We can argue all day about leaving kids in cars. In the end, she did. And I don't think the ramifications she has experienced are on par with what happened.
There is a what if for everything. What if she DID bring them in, then when they drove to other pharmacy baby was so upset she cried hard enough to aspirate and stopped breathing in the middle of nowhere with no help? Is that better? Hey, she didn't leave her kids in the car! Or she brings them in, baby gets coughed on by someone with a different illness, catches it, and is hospitalized? She would be crucified for taking a sick baby around potentially other sick people. But she didn't leave her kids in the car! Or she leaves them in the car, they stay sleeping and she gets to the other pharmacy to get the meds, all is well?
There is a what if for everything. What if she DID bring them in, then when they drove to other pharmacy baby was so upset she cried hard enough to aspirate and stopped breathing in the middle of nowhere with no help? Is that better? Hey, she didn't leave her kids in the car! Or she brings them in, baby gets coughed on by someone with a different illness, catches it, and is hospitalized? She would be crucified for taking a sick baby around potentially other sick people. But she didn't leave her kids in the car! Or she leaves them in the car, they stay sleeping and she gets to the other pharmacy to get the meds, all is well?
She was picking up medicine, she said she didn't see anything amiss when she walked out, but when she got out she saw the nurse standing next to the door. Per oldest child it was not long at all mom came out. No dashing per mom.
She would have been in trouble for NOT sending kid to school. They showed up with no call, etc. she can't not send her child to school. If she hadn't put child on bus and waited to bring them to school until after the investigator left the child would have been late. The school would need a reason for tardiness. What does she say? Oh, CPS wouldn't let child come until after they left, sorry! Make sure Little Mozart gets to class, tata!
Per the police they should not have even been coming. She gave them the information needed. The police advised it was closed.
Your friend sounds like she's frazzled. If CPS shows up, you cooperate. You can call the school afterward to explain. Even provide documentation if they need.
And you said, "Cop tells mom she may have to talk to CPS even though cop is clearing incident."
I get that she's your friend. I do. I even get that she's frazzled. But I think your retelling is overly biased here and she is still in a defensive mode where she wants to justify her action that triggered all of this. The reality is, her actions could've led to something bad happening to her kids. And someone reported that. So, now the proper authority is investigating it. They might deem it was fine; I'm sure they will.
Of course I'm biased. She is my friend. It hurts to have friends hurt/be upset, etc. but at the end of the day, she is of course going to be defensive. Those are her kids.
I love that the kid stood her ground and didn't open the door. The nurse was not out of line for knocking on the window to get the kids' attention, but it sounds like she went berserk, which was her first mistake. Calling the cops was not wrong, but lying, exaggerating, etc. was her second mistake. Nurse calling CPS after the police were involved was her third mistake. Mom "should" not have left the kids in the car, so that was a mistake. She should have worked with CPS on the unannounced next-day home visit; she could have kept the kid off the bus and driven her in late. It's not like the school cranks up the drawbridge after 8:31, after all. CPS was wrong to critique the busstop. I see scads of mistakes being made, but that little kid not caving to an adult who "demands" something by virtue of the fact that she's an adult, I just love that kid. Clearly the mom is doing something right!
Agree, the child is a rock star for shutting that stranger down!