s/o kids in cars (long update in OP)

[Deleted]

Please Tell me what you think of this scenario.
time: 5(ish)pm place: outside pharmacy weather: mid 60's, overcast.

Mom takes baby (think 7-8 months old) to doctor with 2 other kids (almost 4, 6). Dr writes script for baby to be filled at 2 pharmacies due to no stock of all meds at either one. Baby falls asleep en route to pharmacy 1 after not sleeping all day, 2 kids also fall asleep. So mom goes in pharmacy leaving 3 kids in car. Comes out less than 5 minutes later (proven to be 3 minutes 45 seconds by security tapes) to find a nurse banging on car and yelling at kids. Mom asks what's going on. Nurse starts yelling at her, calls cops. Police show up a minute later and start asking questions. Nurse then says kids have been in car for over 30 minutes and are screaming when she walks up, that the oldest told her she wasn't supposed to open car for strangers, that the baby was screaming. Mother asks kids what is going on. Kids say they were woken up by woman banging and screaming and 2 younger kids started crying at that time. Kids are ok, just scared by woman. Cop takes nurses statement. Then takes moms. Mom tells her side, showing paperwork and phone calls disproving the time nurse says. Nurse changes time alone to 15-20 minutes. Cop then goes and reviews security tapes. Verifies mothers statement. Takes info for contact from mom. Gets call from dispatch that CPS needs a call. Nurse had called CPS while cop was taking mothers statement. Cop calls and clears CPS. Mom sees its now 5:45 and she won't be able to make other pharmacy for meds, asks to call friend to pick up. Cop okays, friend picks up meds. Cop tells mom she may have to talk to CPS even though cop is clearing incident. Cop tells mom he understands, he would have done same thing. Mom tells cop/nurse that if it had been that long, she would have understood, but she was gone less than 5 minutes and did not want to wake up sick baby.

Mom gets home to missed call/voicemail from CPS. They are still pursuing. Calls number. Gives info. Told will get call back. Next morning CPS shows up at 7:30 am to do home walk through. Mom tells them oldest kid has a bus coming in 5 minutes, will need to take kids outside to wait. CPS gives her crap about that, but go out with her. Bus comes, oldest goes to school, they do walk through. End of walk through CPS tells mother they will be continuing with case due to non compliance by mother putting oldest on bus and not allowing them to do walk through right then. Then states that mother needs to change bus pickup, since its a busy road. CPS leaves.

What do you think? Mom wrong from start? Nurse wrong? (Obviously she lied about time) everyone wrong?

Mom update: so she got the report and in the report the nurse told the officer the oldest was asked to open the door. (Mom was not told this by anyone) The oldest refused telling her they are not supposed to open the door for strangers. The nurse stated that she told the kid it's ok, she is a friend, the kid said no. Nurse stated that child should have opened door. (Really? good for her child for not listening) It also says the baby was crying so hard she was choking, per nurse, which oldest denied. The officer also added his interview with the kids. Oldest said nurse was banging on window and yelling at them, which woke them up, causing younger two to cry. Oldest said mom came out "right away" after telling nurse no to opening door. Middle child told officer she was scared by lady banging on window and yelling and cried.

Per the report, officer recommended that mother take kids home, and advised CPS that the situation was resolved to the satisfaction of the officer and that the nurse was not acting in a reasonable manner reporting the situation which was being handled.

Mom was told that the case should have been closed after initial information gathering last night and they will look into the matter today. According to the officer, CPS acted outside their boundaries by coming to the home as the police had closed the matter and had given the report to CPS including their interviews with the kids. The officer was pissed that the nurse called, as it was the officers decision to make. Mom is livid, but plans on not doing/saying anything. (i did tell her being pissy with CPS is probably NOT a good idea) She is coming over in a bit to talk and I offered to take her kids for a few hours so she can decompress alone.

[wambam]

Holy shit. Nurse is WAY wrong. Those poor kids. I would be scared to if I woke up to someone banging on the windows.

[ECB]

For the fact that the nurse lied, I'm pissed for the mom. BUT at the same time- the nurse walks by and sees 3 kids "passed out". I relaize they were asleep, but she may be thinking they are passed out from being there too long. Granted, mid 60's- probably not. But we've all seen the video's/ heard the stories about how cars just get SOOOOOO hot, and quickly.

I don't blame the nurse for being concerned, but I blame her for lying. AND for calling CPS!?!?! Thta was a major overreaction.

I'll say too that most pharmacies I go to- you can't see outside/your car. I wouldn't have left 3 kids in a car that I cna't easily see.

[tulip]

I think the nurse was wrong. Big time. I don't like leaving kids in the car but the oldest is 6, they weren't even left alone for 5 full minutes, Mom was doing the best she could. Plus, I like the fact that they knew not to open the door for screaming crazy lady.

[Deleted]

That is a friggin nightmare.

I would never leave my kids in the car.

The nurse may have started banging to wake the kids up because she thought lthey were passed out or something. She shouldn't have lied about the time.

I'm not really sure what to think.

[Stingyshark]

What a mess.

I guess the pharmacy doesn't have a drive-thru?

I don't think I would have left the kids in the car, but i'm a major worry wart - but I don't think that warranted a call to CPS.

[Deleted]

For reference, drive for pharmacy is in direct sight from inside store. Small town pharmacy. No drive through-its attached to hospital. Same hospital mom had kids at. And no drive through pharmacies in 45 miles.

[Deleted]

This is why I go to pharmacies that have drive thrus!!

[tulip]

Oh, and the CPS busy road bus thing. WTF?!? Is it a school bus that is operated by the school district? I see kids everyday taking DD to school on a busy two lane road and the speed limit is 50 waiting for the bus. They look and are so tiny, think 5 to 8 years old and they have zero adults around. Are they joking with this??

[Deleted]

Cps was waaaaayyyyy out of line.

[hopecounts]

in the nurse's position, given that it was documented to be less than 5 minutes I would not have called unless it was a 95+ degree day when even 5 minutes isn't safe. I would've watched and if it had gotten to 20 minutes would've called.

CPS worker is being is just following the rules, my guess is the walk through requires all children to be there so the worker can observe all children in the home. which is probably why she came at 7:30. The bus thing is dumb the school system sets the bus drop off not the parents.

In the mom's situation I don't know what i'd have done. I have never left DD in the car in public like that. I have left her in the car (uncranked) in the closed garage for less than a minute if I realize I've forgotten something, but I have one kid and am terrified by the Washington Post article about kids left in cars so I never feel comfortable risking it and it's a lot easier to deal with one kid then 3 for a quick in and out errand.
I will say I would not risk it for a pharmacy run at our pharmacy because there is almost always a wait so I wouldn't feel comfortable that I could get in and out fast enough.

[Deleted]

From my training from when I worked at the hospital, we were told to wait 5 minutes in severe weather by vehicle (less if kids/pets seem to be in distress), 10 minutes in regular conditions, then have someone overhead paged inside facility where kids are with descriptions of car/#kids/pets. Then call 911.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 7:32:58 GMT -5 tulip said:

Oh, and the CPS busy road bus thing. WTF?!? Is it a school bus that is operated by the school district? I see kids everyday taking DD to school on a busy two lane road and the speed limit is 50 waiting for the bus. They look and are so tiny, think 5 to 8 years old and they have zero adults around. Are they joking with this??

School sets bus pick up drop off locations. Mom always waits in drive with oldest kid. 

[CurlyQ284]

Jesus this poor mom. Nurse is way wrong. Probably shouldn't have left the kids in the car but three kids asleep and just a few minutes in the pharmacy? I think its an easy mistake to make.

CPS WTF. She had to get her kid to school! And how does she change the bus pickup, doesn't the school system set that? I feel so bad for this mom, its like everyone has it out for her or something.

[tulip]

Sept 20, 2013 7:39:44 GMT -5 trixieflips said:

Sept 20, 2013 7:32:58 GMT -5 tulip said:

Oh, and the CPS busy road bus thing. WTF?!? Is it a school bus that is operated by the school district? I see kids everyday taking DD to school on a busy two lane road and the speed limit is 50 waiting for the bus. They look and are so tiny, think 5 to 8 years old and they have zero adults around. Are they joking with this??

School sets bus pick up drop off locations. Mom always waits in drive with oldest kid. 

Then if I was Mom I'd give CPS the number to the school transportation office and let them deal with it. It seems CPS was looking for something to complain about. Can Mom afford a lawyer? If so, I'd also get one. Sounds like a witch hunt with the bus thing. CPS worker should know that parents usually have little control over the bus pick up/drop off locations.

[Deleted]

For the record, I am the friend she called. I get not wanting to wake kids. Especially when the baby hasn't slept, she called ahead to make sure it was ready, did copay over phone, so it really was in/out. Her baby has been to 3 doctors in a week, wasnt eating/sleeping well for days and baby was thisclose to being hospitalized with breathing problems that day. Mom was frazzled, kids were finally sleeping. She NEEDED the meds before the pharmacy closed. She couldn't call her husband he was at work with no phone service.

[muppetinma]

I think everybody is wrong. The degree of wrongness is as follows-
1 - The nurse is the most wrong. She lied and abused the power that she thought she had. She went behind the cops' back to call CPS.
2 - CPS was second in wrongness. If she didn't get the oldest child off to school, they'd probably write her up for truancy. And if the school has decided that the bus stop is safe, that's good enough for me. Is CPS going to follow up with all of the other families that use that same stop?
3 - The mom was the least wrong. I wouldn't have done what she did, but I can see where she's coming from. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Deleted]

She is pretty much in the same boat as me. Our kids are the same ages, we worked together until a few weeks ago when she started staying at home, her husband is out of town a lot.

I would have probably done the same thing if I was her.

ETA: the pharmacy she had to go to next is a 20 minute drive. Waking up 3 kids for a 5 minute stop, then expecting them to be okay for a 20 minute drive probably wasn't going to happen

And she called CPS after the case worker left and bitched them out regarding the non compliance issue, the bus and being a douche in general. She was cleared by the police, there is no need to continue to harass her.

[housewife]

Nurse was wrong for lying and Mom shouldn't have left the kids in the car. I see both sides of it (except for lies), but I know in my county the laws specifically say that no child under 7 can be left alone for any period time, including in cars or backyards.

[CurlyQ284]

Sept 20, 2013 7:50:52 GMT -5 housewife said:

Nurse was wrong for lying and Mom shouldn't have left the kids in the car. I see both sides of it (except for lies), but I know in my county the laws specifically say that no child under 7 can be left alone for any period time, including in cars or backyards.

Not in your backyard? Even if its fenced? Is there an explosive diarrhea exemption? Can they be left alone inside your own house?

Jesus things have changed.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 7:44:26 GMT -5 tulip said:

Sept 20, 2013 7:39:44 GMT -5 trixieflips said:

School sets bus pick up drop off locations. Mom always waits in drive with oldest kid. 

Then if I was Mom I'd give CPS the number to the school transportation office and let them deal with it. It seems CPS was looking for something to complain about. Can Mom afford a lawyer? If so, I'd also get one. Sounds like a witch hunt with the bus thing. CPS worker should know that parents usually have little control over the bus pick up/drop off locations.

She just quit working to stay home with the kids, so money is tight right now until they figure out a workable budget without her income. Plus she has shelled out $$$ for doctors visits/copays/scripts for her youngest. But I will pass that along. She is coming over today.

[vamoose]

I sympathize with the mom. I think it was fine for the nurse to call the police. Leaving kids under 8 unattended in the car here is illegal. But at that point, the nurse should have minded her own business and let the cop decide how to proceed. And obviously the nurse should not have lied.

CPS has very rigid rules they have to follow. I think his is just shit luck for the mom. I wish CPS was able to use their discretion a bit more. Hopefully they will close their case soon.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 7:56:06 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

Sept 20, 2013 7:50:52 GMT -5 housewife said:

Nurse was wrong for lying and Mom shouldn't have left the kids in the car. I see both sides of it (except for lies), but I know in my county the laws specifically say that no child under 7 can be left alone for any period time, including in cars or backyards.

Not in your backyard? Even if its fenced? Is there an explosive diarrhea exemption? Can they be left alone inside your own house?

Jesus things have changed.

Not going to lie, I giggled at explosive diarrhea. Yes, times have changed. I was never supervised as a kid outside. And I was often left with my 4 sisters in the car while my mom ran errands. 

[tulip]

Sept 20, 2013 7:56:15 GMT -5 trixieflips said:

Sept 20, 2013 7:44:26 GMT -5 tulip said:

Then if I was Mom I'd give CPS the number to the school transportation office and let them deal with it. It seems CPS was looking for something to complain about. Can Mom afford a lawyer? If so, I'd also get one. Sounds like a witch hunt with the bus thing. CPS worker should know that parents usually have little control over the bus pick up/drop off locations.

She just quit working to stay home with the kids, so money is tight right now until they figure out a workable budget without her income. Plus she has shelled out $$$ for doctors visits/copays/scripts for her youngest. But I will pass that along. She is coming over today.

What did CPS say when she called after the worker left?

[Deleted]

I think for me the biggest things I have issues with are that the kids were scared by the nurse. Really scared. Of course they are going to cry.

And CPS is just being a bunch of assholes. I have seen their half-assed investigations with parents at the hospital where the kids should have been removed (think kids coming in 8-10 times a month with bruises, broken bones, hand prints on their faces/butts/body), but weren't. And with my sister when she would sleep all day, the kids would wander across a busy highway and go to the park. She ended up losing them when she moved to a different county, but here they gave her $, new clothes for the kids, new furniture and bought her a car.

Not to mention it was cleared by the police.

[themoneytree]

OMG that poor mother, I feel so bad for her.

I get the whole don't leave kids in cars thing. I really do. But 3 sleeping kids, for less than 5 minutes, in moderate weather? I just don't have a problem with it. I just think we have lost all sight of common sense when it comes to stuff like this. Yes there is a one in a million chance that something could go wrong in this situation. But there is in EVERY situation.

If the story was that the nurse had banged on the windows and woken the kids up, I would have been team nurse. But to LIE to the cops? To THEN call CPS after being proven as a liar? OMG.

I am 110% team Mom based on the information above. Wake 3 sleeping kids to spend less than 4 minutes in a pharmacy when it's 60 degrees out? No. Just no.

[karinothing]

Sept 20, 2013 7:28:04 GMT -5 ECB said:

For the fact that the nurse lied, I'm pissed for the mom. BUT at the same time- the nurse walks by and sees 3 kids "passed out". I relaize they were asleep, but she may be thinking they are passed out from being there too long. Granted, mid 60's- probably not. But we've all seen the video's/ heard the stories about how cars just get SOOOOOO hot, and quickly.

I don't blame the nurse for being concerned, but I blame her for lying. AND for calling CPS!?!?! Thta was a major overreaction.

I'll say too that most pharmacies I go to- you can't see outside/your car. I wouldn't have left 3 kids in a car that I cna't easily see.

This is where I am at. You don't want the cops called on you, don't leave your kids in the car. YES it sucks to wake sleeping kids, but you know what lots of things about being a parent suck and are hard. get over it.

[SusanBAnthony]

Nurse and CPS are wrong, the end.

Does CPS think anyone except the school controls where bus stops are FFS?

If mom hadn't put her kid on the bus CPS would have gotten her for not sending her kid to school.

[snipsnsnails]

You guys are crazy. Don't leave three kids in the car that look like they're passed out to the random passerbyer. If it was 60s then that means we should estimate that it's 80 in the car because don't they say add 20°? The nurse may have over estimated the time but who knows maybe she just lost track of time because she was worried about the kids in the car alone. Better safe than sorry.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 8:01:03 GMT -5 tulip said:

Sept 20, 2013 7:56:15 GMT -5 trixieflips said:

She just quit working to stay home with the kids, so money is tight right now until they figure out a workable budget without her income. Plus she has shelled out $$$ for doctors visits/copays/scripts for her youngest. But I will pass that along. She is coming over today.

What did CPS say when she called after the worker left?

She said that they kept telling her it was procedure, there was nothing wrong with their requests, etc.