Yes, someone needs to pay for those kids. This lady wasn't wronged by the state. Her husband/boyfriend committed a crime- and if he's serving 5 years in cocaine charges I'd say it's an intent to distribute charge and at minimum a second offense.
And let's be as honest as we can about things- this lady is an asshole. And she's very likely raising 15 more assholes. she and her daughter beat the cops when the came to arrest her son.
Do they deserve services to acquire housing, food etc. of course they do. But I'm damn certain she should have mandatory counseling / supervision/ parenting classes as part of the package so we as a society can maybe have a shred of hope that just one of her 15 kids doesn't turn out to be an irresponsible, ungrateful ass.
Yes, someone needs to pay for those kids. This lady wasn't wronged by the state. Her husband/boyfriend committed a crime- and if he's serving 5 years in cocaine charges I'd say it's an intent to distribute charge and at minimum a second offense.
And let's be as honest as we can about things- this lady is an asshole. And she's very likely raising 15 more assholes. she and her daughter beat the cops when the came to arrest her son.
Do they deserve services to acquire housing, food etc. of course they do. But I'm damn certain she should have mandatory counseling / supervision/ parenting classes as part of the package so we as a society can maybe have a shred of hope that just one of her 15 kids doesn't turn out to be an irresponsible, ungrateful ass.
You're right. Let's just sterilize her so she stops breeding assholes who aren't grateful enough.
But in seriousness, who is going to watch her kids while she is in counseling or parenting classes? How will those things support her and fulfill her basic needs? Seriously.
Yes, someone needs to pay for those kids. This lady wasn't wronged by the state. Her husband/boyfriend committed a crime- and if he's serving 5 years in cocaine charges I'd say it's an intent to distribute charge and at minimum a second offense.
And let's be as honest as we can about things- this lady is an asshole. And she's very likely raising 15 more assholes. she and her daughter beat the cops when the came to arrest her son.
Do they deserve services to acquire housing, food etc. of course they do. But I'm damn certain she should have mandatory counseling / supervision/ parenting classes as part of the package so we as a society can maybe have a shred of hope that just one of her 15 kids doesn't turn out to be an irresponsible, ungrateful ass.
You're right. Let's just sterilize her so she stops breeding assholes who aren't grateful enough.
But in seriousness, who is going to watch her kids while she is in counseling or parenting classes? How will those things support her and fulfill her basic needs? Seriously.
Maybe if we set up better social service programs that included access to subsidized quality daycare for say, 5 hours a week for her to attend counseling or parenting class in addition to food stamps, utilities assistance it would encourage people like this woman to take more pride and responsibility for their lives.
You can't possibly tell me you think it's a better solution to just blindly funnel money to her with no oversight or at minimum access to tools to help her help herself.
You think those kids aren't going to grow up and live the same life as mom? And that's good for them how exactly?
You're right. Let's just sterilize her so she stops breeding assholes who aren't grateful enough.
But in seriousness, who is going to watch her kids while she is in counseling or parenting classes? How will those things support her and fulfill her basic needs? Seriously.
Maybe if we set up better social service programs that included access to subsidized quality daycare for say, 5 hours a week for her to attend counseling or parenting class in addition to food stamps, utilities assistance it would encourage people like this woman to take more pride and responsibility for their lives.
You can't possibly tell me you think it's a better solution to just blindly funnel money to her with no oversight or at minimum access to tools to help her help herself.
You think those kids aren't going to grow up and live the same life as mom? And that's good for them how exactly?
Maybe if we set up better social service programs that included access to subsidized quality daycare for say, 5 hours a week for her to attend counseling or parenting class in addition to food stamps, utilities assistance it would encourage people like this woman to take more pride and responsibility for their lives.
You can't possibly tell me you think it's a better solution to just blindly funnel money to her with no oversight or at minimum access to tools to help her help herself.
You think those kids aren't going to grow up and live the same life as mom? And that's good for them how exactly?
Please tell me where someone said this.
It was in response to blink who posed the question about when would she ever have time/or be able to attend any counseling or parenting classes. Sounded to me like the suggestion isn't to try and reform or improve services but to just fork over the cash indefinitely with no accountability for a woman who is responsible for 15 future members of society.
And let's be as honest as we can about things- this lady is an asshole. And she's very likely raising 15 more assholes. she and her daughter beat the cops when the came to arrest her son.
It's taking all I can to not stoop to your level right now.
And let's be as honest as we can about things- this lady is an asshole. And she's very likely raising 15 more assholes. she and her daughter beat the cops when the came to arrest her son.
It's taking all I can to not stoop to your level right now.
Being poor doesn't exempt someone from being an asshole.
What question? Where you said you were raising assholes?
yes. i mean, really? that's your point of contention? i would guaran-fucking-tee that she aint the only parent raising assholes, yet she is the only one you are pissed at?
You're right. Let's just sterilize her so she stops breeding assholes who aren't grateful enough.
But in seriousness, who is going to watch her kids while she is in counseling or parenting classes? How will those things support her and fulfill her basic needs? Seriously.
Maybe if we set up better social service programs that included access to subsidized quality daycare for say, 5 hours a week for her to attend counseling or parenting class in addition to food stamps, utilities assistance it would encourage people like this woman to take more pride and responsibility for their lives.
You can't possibly tell me you think it's a better solution to just blindly funnel money to her with no oversight or at minimum access to tools to help her help herself.
You think those kids aren't going to grow up and live the same life as mom? And that's good for them how exactly?
Last I knew food and shelter rank higher than counselling. Its also really hard to take pride in something when people like her are being criticized because they don't meet your standards of acceptability. Bottom line is there are systems in place that keep people in poverty that counselling and parenting classes aren't really going to solve. I would much rather provide a safety net, provide a minimum standard of living, and offer programs that can help keep people out of poverty or get them out. Not saying counselling and parenting classes wouldn't be useful, just that I think there are more important things to take care of first. But sure, that means I'm saying blindly throw money at people -- because they have it so easy.
What question? Where you said you were raising assholes?
yes. i mean, really? that's your point of contention? i would guaran-fucking-tee that she aint the only parent raising assholes, yet she is the only one you are pissed at?
It's one of them, sure. Look we all feel badly for the kids here right? Because they are kids and they are innocent. And they deserve to have real crayola crayons. We care about the kids. Well if really really want to make the money this woman gets the best investment it can possibly be, shouldn't we try to help these kids avoid turning out exactly like their mother?
yes. i mean, really? that's your point of contention? i would guaran-fucking-tee that she aint the only parent raising assholes, yet she is the only one you are pissed at?
It's one of them, sure. Look we all feel badly for the kids here right? Because they are kids and they are innocent. And they deserve to have real crayola crayons. We care about the kids. Well if really really want to make the money this woman gets the best investment it can possibly be, shouldn't we try to help these kids avoid turning out exactly like their mother?
If only someone cared about this!!
Oh wait, they do, but tell me more about how you would fix this situation. It's fascinating really how quickly you're shoveling.
Maybe if we set up better social service programs that included access to subsidized quality daycare for say, 5 hours a week for her to attend counseling or parenting class in addition to food stamps, utilities assistance it would encourage people like this woman to take more pride and responsibility for their lives.
You can't possibly tell me you think it's a better solution to just blindly funnel money to her with no oversight or at minimum access to tools to help her help herself.
You think those kids aren't going to grow up and live the same life as mom? And that's good for them how exactly?
Last I knew food and shelter rank higher than counselling. Its also really hard to take pride in something when people like her are being criticized because they don't meet your standards of acceptability. Bottom line is there are systems in place that keep people in poverty that counselling and parenting classes aren't really going to solve. I would much rather provide a safety net, provide a minimum standard of living, and offer programs that can help keep people out of poverty or get them out. Not saying counselling and parenting classes wouldn't be useful, just that I think there are more important things to take care of first. But sure, that means I'm saying blindly throw money at people -- because they have it so easy.
Beating on the police trying to make a lawful arrest is not really my own personal standard of acceptability, I would think that more of a societal norm for a civil society.
yes. i mean, really? that's your point of contention? i would guaran-fucking-tee that she aint the only parent raising assholes, yet she is the only one you are pissed at?
It's one of them, sure. Look we all feel badly for the kids here right? Because they are kids and they are innocent. And they deserve to have real crayola crayons. We care about the kids. Well if really really want to make the money this woman gets the best investment it can possibly be, shouldn't we try to help these kids avoid turning out exactly like their mother?
#Capitalism - Where people are investments and corporations are people
Post by ashbridemd on Jul 22, 2014 23:08:56 GMT -5
Maybe the government should give her the tools to help her pay for her own children. She's already getting help with the bills, rent, and utilities. Why not put the kids in a low cost or free daycare/after school program, and help the mom find work. Or even set her up in some job skills classes.
The fact that she is just expecting everyone else to take care of her and her kids, while she just sits there and plays the victim is gross.
That state took her half her income away? No. Half her income went away because her partner committed a crime. The state is ok with her being sole guardian of 10 children? Well I suppose the alternative would be foster placement but if she's not actively neglecting them that's not reasonable. WTF is with all the blame on the govt here? I know this board is very anti- bootstraps / personal responsibility, but this lady can take an active role in helping herself. Perhaps job #1 would be not alienating the people who mean to offer her assistance with her shitty attitude.
Yes, we as a whole eschew personal responsibility. Listen, my ass itches. Can one of you scratch it for me? I'm super lazy.
I'd say this board as a whole tries to understand how someone got into a situation and wants to figure out a way for the family to succeed. Bootstraps are hard to find under so many kids, yo.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
Post by irishbride2 on Jul 23, 2014 7:26:36 GMT -5
I prefer early start dates and earlier end dates. I'd rather go back to school in early/mid August and be done by the end of May then start in September and go through mid June. Plus, my pet peeve in middle/high school is when the semester does not end at the winter break. (which generally happens with late start dates).
The sad irrefutable truth is that the time for this to be solved with mere personal responsibility has long since passed.
And anyone who thought this was EVER going to be resolved by mere personal responsibility is suffering from such a large scale delusion about what this country is and what this country has done and continues to do to people. There is nothing less than a considerable amount of both white privilege and middle class privilege as a whole to look at this situation and think, yeah, she just needs to take responsibility for herself and all will be fucking well.
There is a lack of humanity, of tolerance, of education, of awareness, of gratefulness in anyone who does not see that this goes so far beyond personal responsibility. And I would label anyone who continues to prattle on about it to be highly ignorant and entirely without compassion or even intellect.
You look at this family and you see a lack of personal responsibility. I look at you and see a lack of intelligence or soul.
And to be clear, I say gratefulness because if you look at this family and don't understand how privileged you are to have been born into the family you were and understand that the circumstances of your birth are literally the ONLY thing that separates you from this woman, I really don't know what else to say to you.
The sad irrefutable truth is that the time for this to be solved with mere personal responsibility has long since passed.
And anyone who thought this was EVER going to be resolved by mere personal responsibility is suffering from such a large scale delusion about what this country is and what this country has done and continues to do to people. There is nothing less than a considerable amount of both white privilege and middle class privilege as a whole to look at this situation and think, yeah, she just needs to take responsibility for herself and all will be fucking well.
There is a lack of humanity, of tolerance, of education, of awareness, of gratefulness in anyone who does not see that this goes so far beyond personal responsibility. And I would label anyone who continues to prattle on about it to be highly ignorant and entirely without compassion or even intellect.
You look at this family and you see a lack of personal responsibility. I look at you and see a lack of intelligence or soul.
Nobody will disagree with you here. But! Having compassion and throwing more aid at it is not the same as solving the problem. Just as prattling on about personal responsibility and bootstraps is not solving the problem. So instead of shutting down the conversation with a jab at the other posters' intellect and soul, how about we talk about it? I realize I am in the minority on this board in most matters, and I won't even have time to check in on this post very often, but shutting the conversation down serves no purpose and is no better than the behavior of our elected officials. And this is not directed specifically to you (though I chose this post to voice it), because basically the same thing happens in dozens and dozens of threads.
Do they deserve services to acquire housing, food etc. of course they do. But I'm damn certain she should have mandatory counseling / supervision/ parenting classes as part of the package so we as a society can maybe have a shred of hope that just one of her 15 kids doesn't turn out to be an irresponsible, ungrateful ass.
What good would parenting classes do? Take up a shitload of her time. Take the kids away from their mom for a few hours. Take away time from doing laundry. There is nothing indicating that she doesn't know how to be a parent. 15 kids = a fuckload of laundry.
Just imagine the logistics of what happens if 1 kid gets sick and she cant just leave the others and take the one to the dr. Illness must spread like mad with the kids (and with her). My frame of reference is the Duggars. One gets sick and it spreads quickly.
She doesn't sound like an asshole. She sounds scared and desperate to provide for her kids.
I think this is one of those situation that more money can actually fix.
Who shut down conversation? I'd like to move the conversation BEYOND personal responsibility which is just a highly evolved version of "let them eat cake."
What, pray tell, do you think we need to do for this woman that will actually right all of the wrongs of her upbringing and situation? Do you have a solution that will overcome her programming? Do you have some kind of time portal where we could go back and sent Tim Howard into her uterus and supply her with a college education?
Do you have the ability to provide her with a secure upbringing full of love, the right kind of attention, and accomplishments along with way that give her the sense of self she's filling with all those damned kids?
Come, tell me your secrets for how to change THIS woman's life right here, right now so that we no longer need to provide assistance to her 15 kids.
As for her taking parenting classes, etc. I imagine she's had to already, especially if CPS is involved and depending on what type of aid she's receiving it requires different levels of participation. Getting aid isn't as simple as just waltzing into an office and going, "I need aid y'all, what can you give me?" You have to jump through various hoops and keep on jumping through hoops to receive it.