Also what made Josh confess? Was it his sisters going to his parents about what was happening?
I'm completely talking out of my ass here because I don't know if the evangelicals are big on confessions the way the Catholics are, but I imagine kids raised in this kind of culture just don't hold these things in. They have no privacy and are under such strict control. They probably have had the concept of confessing and seeking forgiveness drilled in from a very early age. So I don't think they were really ever given the capacity to understand the concept of keeping bad things "secret." He probably felt he need to tell someone as part of the process of praying and seeking forgiveness, without really understanding anything beyond that.
But it's 2015? Wouldn't that mean we still have a year (or at least 6 months, depending on when in 2006)?
I'm not following. I thought the SOL was 3 years, not 9.
I thought it was 10 from the report date or from 18. I was mistaken. Just read the statue, still confused. It looks like there is an up to 10-year extension of the SOL (from the date of the crime) of the act is concealed by a public servant through felonious conduct. ...but that doesn't get us there.
Also what made Josh confess? Was it his sisters going to his parents about what was happening?
I'm completely talking out of my ass here because I don't know if the evangelicals are big on confessions the way the Catholics are, but I imagine kids raised in this kind of culture just don't hold these things in. They have no privacy and are under such strict control. They probably have had the concept of confessing and seeking forgiveness drilled in from a very early age. So I don't think they were really ever given the capacity to understand the concept of keeping bad things "secret." He probably felt he need to tell someone as part of the process of praying and seeking forgiveness, without really understanding anything beyond that.
This isn't generally how evangelicals work. Many are big on a concept called "priesthood of the believer" in that you only need to confess to God.
That being said, it is often preached that one cannot move forward and claim God's blessings if one has sin in their lives so when confessing to God didn't work, he might have confessed to his parents in order to try a more accountable way to get rid of his sin.
Instead of a Duggar interview, I would love to hear a family that dealt with this abuse successfully. I use the term " successfully" in a relative manner here.
I would love to see a family that had to make this Sophie's choice and chose the victim and reported the crime immediately. I would love to hear how despite being on a juvenile sex offender list, the guy still leads a full life and and has never repeated becaue of proper counseling. I don't want to hear the parents who fucked up by not handling the situation cry or say sorry. I want the family that did the right thing, morally, socially, and LEGALLY, being heralded.
This fucking empathy that is being pored out for him Bob and Michelle is fucking terrifying. A shocking 2% of children are likely to be abused by a sibling while only 0.12% are likely to be abused by an adult family member. That is first statistic is most likey low, too, because so much goes unreported.(http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/josh-duggar-is-not-the-only-one-who-escaped-prosecution/). I am not interested in hearing the sugars skewered, I just want to not hear them defended, because literally, think about the god damn children.
God, that's the response I hate the most. "But what if Josh was your child?! Would you want to see him labeled a sex offender for life and throw him out of the house?!" This is a choice between the abuser and THE SAFETY OF THE OTHER CHILDREN IN YOUR HOUSE. It would be a heartbreaking and painful decision, but I would have to think about the welfare of my minor daughters in that case, yes.
Post by downtoearth on Jun 3, 2015 13:50:04 GMT -5
Either way confession brought on by God or morals or church teachings, it doesn't matter. He confessed to his parents and they didn't protect their other kids! They suck donkey balls!
I don't think she's saintly so much as brainwashed and denied access to the economic and social means to leave. And evidently, her parents knew about what Josh did and still gave the go-ahead on the marriage.
Are you serious? They knew. Oh my gosh. It just gets worse.
And I only mean saint in the sense that she is able to forgive him and not look at him as a monster. Because that is where I am.
Oh, she might be looking at him as a monster. But there are some issues that mean she will not leave. 1) She doesn't come across as that bright. 2) She has been taught that she has to pray and ask God to make it all right and it will be, and if it's not, well, she's being punished by God. Or someone in the family is. For not being Godly enough. 3) She has never been given the resources to be independent. She cannot work, she cannot support herself, she has nowhere to go with her children and no knowledge of how to escape. She is under her husband's authority. If she miraculously had it click in her head that she needed to get out, her upbringing and religion dictate that she should go back to her father, whose authority she is under if she is not married. As he supposedly knew about Josh's "transgressions" before they were married, and as having a separated or divorced daughter would be extremely shameful in their culture, that is almost certainly not an option.
Post by Skyesthelimit1212 on Jun 3, 2015 14:00:31 GMT -5
I keep wanting to know why? I want to know why they kept their daughters to stay in an environment that wasn't safe, why they ignored the please from Josh for help? I keep coming full circle to they fully believe what they did is correct and they will never believe they did anything wrong. Any questions I have will never be answered.....because they fully believe that god forgave him and as much as we know they coerced the girls into forgiving him they will never see that as the truth.
I hope there is a morality clause in their contract with TLC so they can sue the shit out of these monsters (and, in turn, if TLC knew about any of this that their sponsors and sue the shit out of TLC and close that shit show down for good).
Hey Jim Bob - you might have to get a real job after all.
Jim Bob will be fine. He has plenty of assets, plenty of savings, real estate investments, and other businesses. Hell, he hands out businesses like the used car lot to his kids - that's what Josh used to run (and apparently gave him enough experience to work as an exec at FRC), and what Josh will probably do when he gets back to Arkansas.
Supposedly they had to put some of the show money into a trust for the minor children, but who knows how much. Plus, since Jim Bob is the Head of the Household, he can probably just tell the kids (girls, especially) to sign the money over to him when they turn 18.
LI would argue that confession of sins is not a central tenant of faith in 'Christian' faith as it is in Catholicism. That being said, I have no idea which version of Christianity this family subscribes to.
I hope there is a morality clause in their contract with TLC so they can sue the shit out of these monsters (and, in turn, if TLC knew about any of this that their sponsors and sue the shit out of TLC and close that shit show down for good).
Hey Jim Bob - you might have to get a real job after all.
Jim Bob will be fine. He has plenty of assets, plenty of savings, real estate investments, and other businesses. Hell, he hands out businesses like the used car lot to his kids - that's what Josh used to run (and apparently gave him enough experience to work as an exec at FRC), and what Josh will probably do when he gets back to Arkansas.
Supposedly they had to put some of the show money into a trust for the minor children, but who knows how much. Plus, since Jim Bob is the Head of the Household, he can probably just tell the kids (girls, especially) to sign the money over to him when they turn 18.
This actually has a name in the liberal blogosphere. - "wingnut welfare"
I hope he feels some pain as a result of his actions/nonaction - whether it's financial or otherwise.
I'm completely talking out of my ass here because I don't know if the evangelicals are big on confessions the way the Catholics are, but I imagine kids raised in this kind of culture just don't hold these things in. They have no privacy and are under such strict control. They probably have had the concept of confessing and seeking forgiveness drilled in from a very early age. So I don't think they were really ever given the capacity to understand the concept of keeping bad things "secret." He probably felt he need to tell someone as part of the process of praying and seeking forgiveness, without really understanding anything beyond that.
This isn't generally how evangelicals work. Many are big on a concept called "priesthood of the believer" in that you only need to confess to God.
That being said, it is often preached that one cannot move forward and claim God's blessings if one has sin in their lives so when confessing to God didn't work, he might have confessed to his parents in order to try a more accountable way to get rid of his sin.
Don't know about their particular beliefs but there is also the element of making amends to the one you wronged as part of seeking God's forgiveness. So he may have confessed to his parents as part of trying to get right with God. there is also the possibility that he knew it was wrong and was crying out for help by telling them but they did nothing.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Jun 3, 2015 15:25:40 GMT -5
When I was looking into the SOL issue last week or the week prior, I think I found that it had been changed - but after the time when Josh committed the crimes so it didn't count. If he committed the crimes today, the SOL would be until the victims were 28.
I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted it.
When I was looking into the SOL issue last week or the week prior, I think I found that it had been changed - but after the time when Josh committed the crimes so it didn't count. If he committed the crimes today, the SOL would be until the victims were 28.
I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted it.
You're right the SOL was changed but after he committed the crimes (as far as we know) and that can't apply it retroactively so the old version applies.
I keep wanting to know why? I want to know why they kept their daughters to stay in an environment that wasn't safe, why they ignored the please from Josh for help? I keep coming full circle to they fully believe what they did is correct and they will never believe they did anything wrong. Any questions I have will never be answered.....because they fully believe that god forgave him and as much as we know they coerced the girls into forgiving him they will never see that as the truth.
Because if they sent these kids to actual counsellors, who are mandated reporters, I don't for one hot minute doubt that Josh would be the only one in that family facing criminal charges.
I keep wanting to know why? I want to know why they kept their daughters to stay in an environment that wasn't safe, why they ignored the please from Josh for help? I keep coming full circle to they fully believe what they did is correct and they will never believe they did anything wrong. Any questions I have will never be answered.....because they fully believe that god forgave him and as much as we know they coerced the girls into forgiving him they will never see that as the truth.
Because if they sent these kids to actual counsellors, who are mandated reporters, I don't for one hot minute doubt that Josh would be the only one in that family facing criminal charges.
I don't even think that's it at all. I think they believed he was struggling with sin in his life, that the devil was working in him and if they merely prayed hard enough, it would fix him. I'm sure there's also a huge element of the Jezebel effect going on too, that women and girls are just too tempting and if they were just more modest, it wouldn't happen again.
I doubt the idea of counseling ever occurred to them.
Post by Skyesthelimit1212 on Jun 3, 2015 17:14:10 GMT -5
I just added this to the FB People mag thread
For those defending him, how you seem to ignore that he molested his little sisters. Aren't there passages in the bible condeming incest, or have those passages been replaced by your nonexisting passages about how God hates gay people and illegals.
Just wanted to say that I want to light all these bitches on fire.I don't care what you claim to believe, or how "Godly" you are, you aren't even fucking human if you allow your children to be molested.
Because if they sent these kids to actual counsellors, who are mandated reporters, I don't for one hot minute doubt that Josh would be the only one in that family facing criminal charges.
I don't even think that's it at all. I think they believed he was struggling with sin in his life, that the devil was working in him and if they merely prayed hard enough, it would fix him. I'm sure there's also a huge element of the Jezebel effect going on too, that women and girls are just too tempting and if they were just more modest, it wouldn't happen again.
I doubt the idea of counseling ever occurred to them.
I'm sure they have some sincere religious convictions. But turning to prayer is not inconsistent with understanding options available to you, and the consequences of other alternatives.
I just don't buy that they were so pious and godly that prayer was all they knew. Jim Bob is smart enough to know better. Michelle too. They have been functioning in mainstream society for years. They weren't born and raised in this world, they turned to it as married adults. Jim Bob is a well-connected, savvy man, who had been active in state politics and a businessman, not some kool-aid drinking yahoo fresh out of a bunker.
While they've built a very artificial circle around them to limit their children's exposure to outside influence, they did that because they have an appreciation of what people who don't see life their way are like.