Post by charminglife on Jun 4, 2015 8:28:54 GMT -5
Gawker compiled all of the Duggar excuses for those of us who couldn't stomach the interview:
The Excuse: “Josh had a tender conscience”
Michelle: We were shocked. I mean we were just devastated. I don’t think any parent is prepared for trauma like that. And I think we had one ray of hope that Josh had a tender conscience and he was the one that came and shared on his own, even though the others really didn’t know anything of his wrongdoing.
The Excuse: “They didn’t know he had done it.”
Megyn: Did he explain why? I mean is that a question that you asked?
Jim Bob: He said he was just curious about girls, and he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping. They didn’t even know he had done it.
The Excuse: “None of them were aware.”
Jim Bob: We first off really talked to him. And then we talked to the girls.
Michelle: Because it was so important as parents to talk to our girls and make sure that nothing else had happened.
Megyn: And what did they say?
Michelle: Well, one by one, as we talked with them, none of them were aware of Josh’s wrongdoings.
Megyn: So they learned about it from you?
Both parents: Yeah.
The Excuse: “Similar things happen in other families”
Megyn: When you went to bed at night during that timeframe, were you scared? Were you worried, “You know, he’s 14, he’s having this problem, what’s going to happen when we go to sleep?”
Jim Bob: Nothing ever happened in the girls bedrooms after that. So we had safeguards that protected them from that. But there was another incident, two different instances where girls were, like, laying on the couch.
Michelle: ...Sleeping
Jim Bob: And he had touched, like, over the couch, and actually touched the breasts while they were asleep.
Michelle: ...Over the clothes
Jim Bob: Yeah, over the clothes. And so it was a very difficult situation. But as we’ve talked to other parents and different ones since then, a lot of families since said that they’ve had similar things happen in their families. I mean this is, for us, of course, this is public shame that our son did this, back 12, 13 years ago.
The Excuse: “This was not rape”
Jim Bob: We thought at first that Josh was on the road to mend, but he was still a kid, you know, he was still a juvenile. He wasn’t an adult. And so there was a couple more times he came and told us what he had done, and we were just devastated. Again, this was not rape or anything like that. This was like touching over the clothes. There were a couple instances where he touched someone under the clothes, but for like a few seconds. And then he came to us, and was crying, and told us what happened.
The Excuse: “They probably didn’t even understand that it was an improper touch.”
Megyn: The subsequent incidents, after the first one, involved daughters who were awake. Or at least a couple of them?
Jim Bob: There was a couple, yeah, and they didn’t really understand.
Michelle: It was more his heart, his intent. He knew that it was wrong. But they weren’t even aware. To them they probably didn’t even understand that it was an improper touch.
The Excuse: “It was more just like fondling, a touch while they were asleep—for most of them”
Megyn: Just to clarify, it was four daughters and there was a babysitter outside the family
Jim Bob: Yes.
Megyn: And you notified her about the incident?
Jim Bob: Yes. He called her up and asked her forgiveness, and she didn’t know he had done anything, either. It was more just like a fondling, a touch while they were asleep—for most of them. Then there was two other incidents that were when they were awake. And it was just a bad thing.
The Excuse: “Why in the world would [the cop] say that? Maybe he’d get out on parole sooner.”
Jim Bob: At police headquarters, we went in and talked to him and said, “Hey, my son has something that he needs to share with you.” We actually took a witness with us. We went in and sat down and he shared everything.
Megyn: He told it all?
Jim Bob: He told everything. And we had no idea that what that officer was going through on his own.
Megyn: So the audience knows, that officer is now in jail for 56 years for child pornography charges. Did you have any idea he was involved in that at the time?
Michelle: That came out years later. We were, like, shocked to read that in the paper.
Megyn: So the critics who say, “Oh, they chose that guy because they thought he would be sympathetic.”
Jim Bob: I didn’t know anything about this guy except he was an officer there at headquarters.
Megyn: From now from prison, where he’s serving time for child pornography, he says, “Well he only told me about one incident and that’s why I didn’t pursue charges.”
Jim Bob: I was questioning, “Why in the world would he say that?” Maybe he’d get out on parole sooner. Because he actually violated the law in this case himself by not reporting it.
The Excuse: “There’s boundaries that we’ve learned”
Michelle: We still had those safeguards in place. I mean, it’s like there were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents, with this first child, first son, to come to this place in his life, where like, there were things we learned, even since then, that I think, “You know what, we don’t let boys babysit. They don’t play hide and seek together, two don’t go off and hide.” There are just a lot of things that we’ve put in place. We said, “You’re not alone in a room with someone else. Always be out visible, and, you know, little ones don’t sit on big boys’ laps or people that you don’t know or even family members, unless it’s your daddy. So we just—there’s boundaries that we’ve learned.”
The Excuse: “The legal definition is 16 and up for being an adult preying on a child.”
Megyn: Michelle let me ask you, because you were in the news for making a robocall that suggested transgender people might want to go into the bathrooms of girls, locker rooms of girls, and that they may be child molesters. Folks have used that in the past week against you saying how could you unfairly, in their view, compare transgender people to child molesters, suggest they are child molesters, knowing what you know about Josh.
Michelle: I think that protecting young girls and not allowing young men, and men in general, to go into a girls’ locker room is just common sense.
Megyn: But this is different, because you injected child molestation into it.
Jim Bob: I think you actually said pedophile in that, and actually a pedophile is an adult that preys on children. Joshua was actually 14 and just turned 15 when he did what he did. And I think that the legal definition is 16 and up for being an adult preying on a child. So he was a child preying on a child.
Megyn: You do not view Josh as a pedophile.
Both parents: No.
The Excuse: “I feel like this is more about... there is an agenda”
Megyn: Can you understand the critics’ reaction to this news?
Michelle: I can understand that, but I know that every one of us have done things wrong. That’s why Jesus came. I feel like this is more about... there is an agenda and there is people that are purposing to try to bring things out and twisting them to hurt and slander.
The Duggars used the word sorry twice on the program, explaining to Megyn that when Josh left the house they told their kids he had “done some very bad things and he’s, he’s sorry.” The second time was when Fox replayed the clip.
So they put safeguards in place. Things like, keeping boys and men away from girls, no hide & seek, no sitting on laps. How about, I don't know, some sex education? Teach them what is normal versus what is not normal or ok?
I can't get over how many people failed these girls. Their parents, the church elders that knew about it, the police officer that was told, the house building dude...the list could just keep going on. It's disgusting.
Jim Bob: I think you actually said pedophile in that, and actually a pedophile is an adult that preys on children. Joshua was actually 14 and just turned 15 when he did what he did. And I think that the legal definition is 16 and up for being an adult preying on a child. So he was a child preying on a child.
Megyn: You do not view Josh as a pedophile.
Both parents: No.
NO. No. I'm so fucking disgusted. Why is anyone giving them a platform here?
So they put safeguards in place. Things like, keeping boys and men away from girls, no hide & seek, no sitting on laps. How about, I don't know, some sex education? Teach them what is normal versus what is not normal or ok?
Assholes.
Reading about their "safeguards" made me shiver. Boys can't babysit or be alone in a room with girl, no matter how young or even if she's related, but heaven forbid they talk about boundaries and consent and thinking of girls as PEOPLE.
I've never understood why the Duggars were given their own TV show in the first place. They have a crap ton of kids- so what? While their family size is uncommon, it's not noteworthy that they have reproduced. It's certainly not the kind of accomplishment that makes for interesting viewing on its own. They're like the Kardashians- famous for no real reason- except as obnoxious and useless as the Kardashians are, even they don't have a history of allowing child abuse in their family.
So they put safeguards in place. Things like, keeping boys and men away from girls, no hide & seek, no sitting on laps. How about, I don't know, some sex education? Teach them what is normal versus what is not normal or ok?
Assholes.
Reading about their "safeguards" made me shiver. Boys can't babysit or be alone in a room with girl, no matter how young or even if she's related, but heaven forbid they talk about boundaries and consent and thinking of girls as PEOPLE.
I've never understood why the Duggars were given their own TV show in the first place. They have a crap ton of kids- so what? While their family size is uncommon, it's not noteworthy that they have reproduced. It's certainly not the kind of accomplishment that makes for interesting viewing on its own. They're like the Kardashians- famous for no real reason- except as obnoxious and useless as the Kardashians are, even they don't have a history of allowing child abuse in their family.
Yes, basically the "safeguards" tell children boys can't be trusted or control themselves. And I highly doubt the Duggars put those safeguards in place in response to the molestation, because those are ATI standards, I believe.
I'm actually glad despite all of their stupidity that this discussion is on tv. Had we just booted them off the air and let them continue on in silence, we wouldn't be having a national public discussion about sexual abuse within families which is the most common form of sexual abuse pretty much every where.
We're always talking about stranger abductions, finding girls who have been locked in basements, women who disappear off the highway but the most common form of sexual abuse is often hidden within families even after the crime has been discovered.
Sure these shit bags have a fuckton of excuses but millions of people are standing up and saying this is unacceptable and no child should have to deal with this.
The sad thing is that aside from the ultra fundie part of this story, many families are encountering similar circumstances and doing just as little about them. It's long past time we started talking very loudly about what parents are supposed to do when their child is harming/being harmed by someone they are supposed to love.
So I assume that Megyn didn't ask Jim Bob about this?
I feel like he was tunneling (right word??) Nathan Lane ala Birdcage when he said this. "Oh, I know what you're going to say. "If you kill the mother, the fetus dies, too." But the fetus is going to be aborted anyway, so why not let it go down with the ship?"
I'm actually glad despite all of their stupidity that this discussion is on tv. Had we just booted them off the air and let them continue on in silence, we wouldn't be having a national public discussion about sexual abuse within families which is the most common form of sexual abuse pretty much every where.
It's a pretty popular thing around here that we not discuss them and "shhh, don't give them a platform." But I really believe this needs to be exposed, in neon lights. Errrrrybody gather round and see the Duggars for what they are: a patriarchal sex cult. We cannot stand by and let people (mostly I'm thinking of mainstream Christians) continue to think the Duggars and their ilk are cute, quirky big families that are just "conservative." NO. This shit is dangerous and needs to be exposed and talked about for what it is.
I think a lot of people believe the Duggars really are a standard conservative family. Hell, a ton of the responses in this very thread indicate it's not just other conservative families who believe this. So putting it out there that these people aren't just some wholesome family values down home Americans living their life is a valuable viewpoint.
I think a lot of people believe the Duggars really are a standard conservative family. Hell, a ton of the responses in this very thread indicate it's not just other conservative families who believe this. So putting it out there that these people aren't just some wholesome family values down home Americans living their life is a valuable viewpoint.
100% agree. I've been saying for years that their brand of conservatism and evangelism is dangerous for the children (especially the girls) and women inside those families, and almost always, people will say to me "oh no, they're a good family. They're clearly loving. Who cares if they have different beliefs than you?"
Maybe now people will see that they're cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
So they put safeguards in place. Things like, keeping boys and men away from girls, no hide & seek, no sitting on laps. How about, I don't know, some sex education? Teach them what is normal versus what is not normal or ok?
Assholes.
Reading about their "safeguards" made me shiver. Boys can't babysit or be alone in a room with girl, no matter how young or even if she's related, but heaven forbid they talk about boundaries and consent and thinking of girls as PEOPLE.
I've never understood why the Duggars were given their own TV show in the first place. They have a crap ton of kids- so what? While their family size is uncommon, it's not noteworthy that they have reproduced. It's certainly not the kind of accomplishment that makes for interesting viewing on its own. They're like the Kardashians- famous for no real reason- except as obnoxious and useless as the Kardashians are, even they don't have a history of allowing child abuse in their family.
Well, they do seem to think it's ok when a 17 year old dates a 25 year old. Statutory rape is totes ok.
absinthe, thank you for sharing something so personal. I'm so sorry for all you've been through, and I imagine it's got to be difficult to have this issue everywhere you look these days no matter how much good comes out of it in terms of exposure and collective attitude shift.
No, you stupid assholes, this isn't normal teenage exploration. THAT IS WHAT TEENAGERS USUALLY DO WITH THEIR BOYFRIENDS/GIRLFRIENDS.
It is pretty common actually. It doesn't mean it's normal though, or what these kids should be doing with their significant other. My sister was molested by a cousin that was her age. Whether he did it to her, or to a girlfriend, it was still wrong as it was done with no consent.
Post by barefootcontessa on Jun 4, 2015 10:02:17 GMT -5
First, I feel really sorry for Jill and Jessa that they are dealing with all of this. Being newlyweds and having first babies and all of this circling around them. So unfair to them. I watched the interview and my conclusion is that M and JB did not want to accept what Josh had done (the first time around) because of their own personal pride. So they accepted a whitewashed version of what likely happened ... "it was through their clothes," "the girls were asleep," "they has no knowledge of what happened." And so the abuse likely continued and grew more serious until finally Josh went after a five-year old child. That alone is evidence of escalation on his part. They have failed their children -- Josh, for not getting him help when he came to him, and obviously the girls for allowing a predatory teen boy to remain in the house. And worse, now they are trying to normalize abuse by saying other families have experienced worse, etc.
absinthe, thank you for sharing something so personal. I'm so sorry for all you've been through, and I imagine it's got to be difficult to have this issue everywhere you look these days no matter how much good comes out of it in terms of exposure and collective attitude shift.
Thank you, I've had a lot of conversations with a counselor over those events and finally told my mom as a result of my efforts to heal and it was very heartbreaking to be met with indifference. And you are right, the coverage and debate is good, but it is also hard because it brings up so many memories and feelings. I wish those girls had parents like any of us in this thread that would have fought for them. JB and Michelle had the chance and failed them. There are so many more out there, like me, who stay silent. I hope this encourages them to talk to someone.
They showed a clip on the Today Show? Can I be petty? What the fuck was up with Michelle's orange face? Easy on the bronzer there, lady. And Jim Bob is one homely motherfucker.
I think a lot of people believe the Duggars really are a standard conservative family. Hell, a ton of the responses in this very thread indicate it's not just other conservative families who believe this. So putting it out there that these people aren't just some wholesome family values down home Americans living their life is a valuable viewpoint.
100% agree. I've been saying for years that their brand of conservatism and evangelism is dangerous for the children (especially the girls) and women inside those families, and almost always, people will say to me "oh no, they're a good family. They're clearly loving. Who cares if they have different beliefs than you?"
Maybe now people will see that they're cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
I think they became so poplar so quickly because at that time the only Mormons that were being shown in the media the "families" (used loosely) with multiple wives, and they all lived in guarded compounds with unsupervised children. We learned that the leaders and husbands were married to sisters and sexually abusing their own children. So when the Duggars came along this was a completely different Mormon family that most people knew and they were embraced for being "wholesome" and working parent. MIND YOU, I"M NOT DEFENDING THEM! This is just why I THINK they were made so popular.
100% agree. I've been saying for years that their brand of conservatism and evangelism is dangerous for the children (especially the girls) and women inside those families, and almost always, people will say to me "oh no, they're a good family. They're clearly loving. Who cares if they have different beliefs than you?"
Maybe now people will see that they're cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
I think they became so poplar so quickly because at that time the only Mormons that were being shown in the media the "families" (used loosely) with multiple wives, and they all lived in guarded compounds with unsupervised children. We learned that the leaders and husbands were married to sisters and sexually abusing their own children. So when the Duggars came along this was a completely different Mormon family that most people knew and they were embraced for being "wholesome" and working parent. MIND YOU, I"M NOT DEFENDING THEM! This is just why I THINK they were made so popular.
I feel terrible for those girls for what they went through and because they continue to be subjected to the ideals of their shitpig parents. I also feel for Josh for not getting the help that he needed (*please note- no excusing the behavior whatsoever). Like several others, I am glad that this story is receiving national attention. Family molestation is far more prevalent than a lot of people would like to think and if this can help shine the light on what's going on for many children inside of their own homes then I see that as a lone positive.
I think they became so poplar so quickly because at that time the only Mormons that were being shown in the media the "families" (used loosely) with multiple wives, and they all lived in guarded compounds with unsupervised children. We learned that the leaders and husbands were married to sisters and sexually abusing their own children. So when the Duggars came along this was a completely different Mormon family that most people knew and they were embraced for being "wholesome" and working parent. MIND YOU, I"M NOT DEFENDING THEM! This is just why I THINK they were made so popular.
The duggars are not Mormon.
Ohhhhhh, I thought they were. See shows how much I paid attention to their show. LOL
Post by cattledogkisses on Jun 4, 2015 10:41:16 GMT -5
If they're telling the truth and the girls truly didn't understand that this kind of touching was inappropriate, then that's another way that these parents massively failed their children.
My kindy-aged nieces know about "good touch" and "bad touch."
No, you stupid assholes, this isn't normal teenage exploration. THAT IS WHAT TEENAGERS USUALLY DO WITH THEIR BOYFRIENDS/GIRLFRIENDS.
It is pretty common actually. It doesn't mean it's normal though, or what these kids should be doing with their significant other. My sister was molested by a cousin that was her age. Whether he did it to her, or to a girlfriend, it was still wrong as it was done with no consent.
Sorry, I should have clarified the point about consent.
But I don't think that the Duggars in any way are doing interviews to get awareness out about sexual assault and helping survivors. Nope. So, their claims of how "similar" things have happened in other families is self serving just them trying to convince the world that they handled this thing the correct way. By doing nothing.
It is pretty common actually. It doesn't mean it's normal though, or what these kids should be doing with their significant other. My sister was molested by a cousin that was her age. Whether he did it to her, or to a girlfriend, it was still wrong as it was done with no consent.
Sorry, I should have clarified the point about consent.
But I don't think that the Duggars in any way are doing interviews to get awareness out about sexual assault and helping survivors. Nope. So, their claims of how "similar" things have happened in other families is self serving just them trying to convince the world that they handled this thing the correct way. By doing nothing.
I do agree that they downplayed it. Just because it happens in other families doesn't mean it's ok. I understand that they don't want to throw their son under the bus, but it would have been nice if they said "yes stuff like this happens, and we didn't have the tools to deal with it as we should have". I so wish they used this as an opportunity to get a discussion about this going, and promote safe ways on how to deal with it, and rebuild a family following the devastation.
I just keep wishing that they dealt with it in that manner, and they the family that I no longer see due to our family situation would see it and realize that others go through it, and that there are better ways to deal with it rather than just denial and sweeping it under the rug.