Ohhhhhh, I thought they were. See shows how much I paid attention to their show. LOL
No. They are independent fundamental baptists. Most people who are IFB do not consider Mormons to be real Christians by any stretch of the imagination.
If they're telling the truth and the girls truly didn't understand that this kind of touching was inappropriate, then that's another way that these parents massively failed their children.
My kindy-aged nieces know about "good touch" and "bad touch."
I remember having a convocation every year in elementary school re: good touch & bad touch. Now that I think about it: pretty progressive for a small, Midwest community. My sister home schools my nephews, (& is super Christian); the Duggar situation has definitely made me want to discuss the importance of this teaching the next time I see her.
Their repeated prioritization of Josh over the girls just hammers home the point that women are utterly worthless in this cult, except as incubators.
These people disgust me.
Yes! This situation just goes to show that all the crowing in the Christian patriarchy movement about how they put women on pedestals and "love them as Christ loved the church" and respect them by being chivalrous instead of allowing them any agency is a total crock. Also, according to their belief system, it's Jim Bob's job to protect his female chattel, and he's done nothing but fail in this regard, over and over again.
What a fucking disgusting way to refer to women (and I don't mean you dawnzer -- I know that word comes from them).
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
If they're telling the truth and the girls truly didn't understand that this kind of touching was inappropriate, then that's another way that these parents massively failed their children.
My kindy-aged nieces know about "good touch" and "bad touch."
No shit. I talk about this so much with my 5 yo son, that when I try to initiate a check-in conversation about it, he rolls his eyes and goes, "I know mom, no one is allowed to touch my penis..." LOL.
It is unfathomable to me that there was no discussion about proper touch in that house. That is really terrifying. Those poor girls.
The explaining this away that it was through clothes or someone was asleep is sad......i am still betting this went way beyond what is out there already too.
Curious though what people think the steps should have been....beyond this not happening in the first place, should they have called the police immediately?
Granted this is not a normal atmosphere to begin with but if my 14 year son told me he felt up my 5 year old daughter while she was sleeping bc he was curious on girls bodies i would lose my mind and have no idea what to even do.
This makes me want to never, ever let my 2.5 year old out of my sight. Like, sleep next to me until she leaves for college.
My life and my own trauma past made me like this. The paranoia is horrible to live with.
(I've gotten better and have learned methods to release the grip, but the reality is this kind of stuff happens and you can't just ignore it or say "it only happens to ..x ... y.... z.... types of people" you CANT *other* it away.
Ohhhhhh, I thought they were. See shows how much I paid attention to their show. LOL
No. They are independent fundamental baptists. Most people who are IFB do not consider Mormons to be real Christians by any stretch of the imagination.
To be fair, a lot of people don't think Mormons are Christians. Though I'm sure for vastly different reasons.
The explaining this away that it was through clothes or someone was asleep is sad......i am still betting this went way beyond what is out there already too.
Curious though what people think the steps should have been....beyond this not happening in the first place, should they have called the police immediately?
Granted this is not a normal atmosphere to begin with but if my 14 year son told me he felt up my 5 year old daughter while she was sleeping bc he was curious on girls bodies i would lose my mind and have no idea what to even do.
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I heard a story on NPR recently about juvenile sex offenders going on the registry and their efforts to get their names removed as adults. According to te experts consulted, juvenile offenders who receive proper treatment re-offend at very low rates.
So I like to think that I would contact the authorities, get counseling for the victimized child, and send the abusing child to a legitimate juvenile sex offender program. But yeah, hard to say what I would do in reality.
Post by dawnzersong on Jun 4, 2015 13:13:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry, soxin2- that sounds really difficult. That's a really good point about "othering" it away. I think it's really common for people to do that because it gives them a feeling of control over what happens to them, but really it could happen to anyone.
If they're telling the truth and the girls truly didn't understand that this kind of touching was inappropriate, then that's another way that these parents massively failed their children.
My kindy-aged nieces know about "good touch" and "bad touch."
No shit. I talk about this so much with my 5 yo son, that when I try to initiate a check-in conversation about it, he rolls his eyes and goes, "I know mom, no one is allowed to touch my penis..." LOL.
It is unfathomable to me that there was no discussion about proper touch in that house. That is really terrifying. Those poor girls.
And this is so crucial. Because I had the good/bad touch talk with my 3 yo, she was able to tell dh and I when she was abused and we were able to go to the authorities right away. I hate that these 'people' (and I use that term loosely, see my post about not even being human) couldn't be bothered to teach their children how to protect themselves. God forbid they even know the bare minimum about their bodies because that will lead them down the road to harlotry.
This Duggar story has also opened up old wounds for me. I have been through this, but it involved a cousin. It's a horrible thing to go through, I was lucky in a way because it only happened once and I wasn't forced to continue to live with my cousin for years afterwards. But I have been there and I have experienced the threats to stay quiet...it's scary shit to have someone who you once considered family to threaten you to keep your mouth shut, or else. Luckily I was old enough to call that a bluff and I told my mom....fuck him and his threats. There are a lot of children who are too young to make that decision and they keep it as a dark secret and it happen over and over again.
I can't even begin to understand how Michelle and Jim Bob allowed this to go on for so long. Can you imagine those girls going to bed at night and hoping that Josh wouldn't come sneaking into their room? It's like they were living with a boogeyman.
This Duggar story has also opened up old wounds for me. I have been through this, but it involved a cousin. It's a horrible thing to go through, I was lucky in a way because it only happened once and I wasn't forced to continue to live with my cousin for years afterwards. But I have been there and I have experienced the threats to stay quiet...it's scary shit to have someone who you once considered family to threaten you to keep your mouth shut, or else. Luckily I was old enough to call that a bluff and I told my mom....fuck him and his threats. There are a lot of children who are too young to make that decision and they keep it as a dark secret and it happen over and over again.
I can't even begin to understand how Michelle and Jim Bob allowed this to go on for so long. Can you imagine those girls going to bed at night and hoping that Josh wouldn't come sneaking into their room? It's like they were living with a boogeyman.
I liked your post because I can empathize. I can't imagine if I had ignored my daughter and continued to let her stay with her abuser. What kind if shitty oxygen thief does that?
No. They are independent fundamental baptists. Most people who are IFB do not consider Mormons to be real Christians by any stretch of the imagination.
To be fair, a lot of people don't think Mormons are Christians. Though I'm sure for vastly different reasons.
There are many Christians who don't even think Catholics are Christian, which to me implies quite a poor understanding of history. (Sorry for the digression)
No shit. I talk about this so much with my 5 yo son, that when I try to initiate a check-in conversation about it, he rolls his eyes and goes, "I know mom, no one is allowed to touch my penis..." LOL.
It is unfathomable to me that there was no discussion about proper touch in that house. That is really terrifying. Those poor girls.
And this is so crucial.
I'm so sorry that happened to your family. Sounds like you did the right thing all around, you are a great mom.
Curious though what people think the steps should have been....beyond this not happening in the first place, should they have called the police immediately?
I think most normal and rational people would a) immediately remove the offender from the victims, b) report the offender and try to get every available resource to help (and I mean this for a teen/child offender, not a 32 year old man) and immediate counseling, and c) get the victims immediate help and counseling.
But these aren't normal and rational people. There is no rational thought that goes on here. No, instead we'll pray the naughty touch away, and keep the victims in this fucked up environment to pray the incident away, and forgive the almighty man.
This makes me so sick. I mean, I can't imagine a parent being faced with this, but my God. You have a responsibility to all your children to protect and help them. You don't do this by grabbing the bible, saying "it was only a few seconds," and singing kumbaya songs of forgiveness. Fuck that.
I'm sure I'm going to hear about this, but here goes...
I totally think that this is an expected result of a religious belief system that provides NO information about the bodies of the opposite sex. NONE. It's shameful to know or think about any of that before you're married.
So a kid's curious about what other bodies are like. Instead of having resources (be it somebody to talk to, a cheezy pamphlet, a BIOLOGY textbook, etc), the only way to know anything about the bodies half the population walks around in is to do this.
I'm sure I'm going to hear about this, but here goes...
I totally think that this is an expected result of a religious belief system that provides NO information about the bodies of the opposite sex. NONE. It's shameful to know or think about any of that before you're married.
So a kid's curious about what other bodies are like. Instead of having resources (be it somebody to talk to, a cheezy pamphlet, a BIOLOGY textbook, etc), the only way to know anything about the bodies half the population walks around in is to do this.
Don't forget the belief in the male SuperLibido and the absence of any concept of female consent.
I'm sure I'm going to hear about this, but here goes...
I totally think that this is an expected result of a religious belief system that provides NO information about the bodies of the opposite sex. NONE. It's shameful to know or think about any of that before you're married.
So a kid's curious about what other bodies are like. Instead of having resources (be it somebody to talk to, a cheezy pamphlet, a BIOLOGY textbook, etc), the only way to know anything about the bodies half the population walks around in is to do this.
Don't forget the belief in the male SuperLibido and the absence of any concept of female consent.
and that an exposed ankle or wrist is tempting the all mighty man.
Thanks for posting...I didn't see the interview, but what I was reading about what they said really did not seem to match up with the info out there, so I was wondering if they'd be called out on some of this.
I also don't believe their repeated insistence that it was 'only over the clothes'...not that it matters anyway, it's still not okay... but based on what was in that police report, I really don't believe that was where it stopped.
Similarly, I don't believe the 'they were so fast asleep they never even noticed it!' BS either. Nope.
If they're telling the truth and the girls truly didn't understand that this kind of touching was inappropriate, then that's another way that these parents massively failed their children.
My kindy-aged nieces know about "good touch" and "bad touch."
They have taught these kids that hand holding before courtship/engagement is bad touch.
the girls probably knew it was wrong, but figured that they would get blamed for inciting bad touch and maybe felt shame for 'bringing it on themselves'. Their parents taught them that, too.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I'm just catching up. Fuck the Duggars. I never watched the show, but why are they even getting the time of day with interviews and all this press? I wish the girls would just get the help they need and then the Duggars move on to being completely irrelevant in society.