Cecil vs Sam DuBose

[just]

(Sorry if it's already been discussed)

mic.com/articles/123095/one-tweet-shows-the-different-response-between-cecil-the-lion-and-sandra-bland

One Tweet Nails the Unsettling Truth About Our Obsession With Cecil the Lion

As the Internet continues to collectively mourn the death of Cecil the lion and heap scorn on his killer, Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer, one Purdue University professor offered another take on the tragedy that has many people talking.

In a Wednesday Twitter post, feminist and author Roxane Gay suggested a novel approach for how to draw attention to police violence in America — violence that has overwhelmingly impacted black men, women and children.

While the death of Cecil is undoubtedly a tragedy, the outpouring of grief and media attention for the lion struck a nerve for many who believe that black people killed by the police often get shortchanged.

When Sandra Bland was found dead in a Texas jail cell earlier this month, many in the media and online raced for possible justifications for her death and initial arrest. Footage released by the Waller County sheriff's office shows state trooper Brian Encinia ordering Bland out of her car, where he ultimately arrested her, saying she posed a threat to his safety. On Fox and Friends, co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck speculated Bland's cigarette could have been used as a weapon.

Even with a media attempt to mitigate her situation, Bland was lucky to get any attention at all. Few of the people now outraged about Cecil could muster the same passion for Rekia Boyd, a 22-year-old black woman killed by a Chicago police detective.

In the words of Mic's Darnell Moore:

"Chicago Police Detective Dante Servin had been off-duty when, around 1 a.m., he approached a group that included Boyd in his car. After one of the individuals present, 39-year-old Anthony Cross, walked toward Servin holding what the officer thought was a gun, Servin began firing and hit Boyd in the head. She died on March 22, and Servin was subsequently charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, reckless discharge of a weapon and reckless conduct. On Monday, Cook County Judge Dennis Porter dismissed all charges. Servin left the courtroom, surrounded by family and fellow officers, a free man."
On Wednesday, Cincinnati police released graphic footage showing the death of Sam Dubose, a black man who was murdered by a white University of Cincinnati police officer. The footage was so graphic that the university has closed and riots are expected in the city. With Dubose only the latest in a string of such attacks, the conversation Gay started on Twitter is likely to continue.

[msmerymac]

I get the point, and I've seen this posted on facebook 2 or 3 times. I like Roxanne Gay, but... I'm capable of caring about more than one tragedy at the same time.

Are some people more upset about Cecil than about black lives? Probably. Some people focus their careers or free time on animal rights. Some people are ignorant of the news (which is partially their fault, partially what the media focuses on reporting). And some people probably do think that the lion was more important than the lives of few Americans. But I think most people won't think that they are prioritizing something simply by talking about the lion poaching.

And yeah, I understand that seeing a lot of attention and a collective criticism of the death of Cecil the lion can seem like a slap in the face when you're still trying to convince people that #blacklivesmatter isn't about hurting the feelings of white people.

[heyjude]

It is possible to care about many tragedies and recognize that white male entitlement can be destructive to both human and animal.

[sfy]

Almost every black person I know has said this in one form or another, me included. It's bullshit and it's offensive.

[ECB]

Jul 30, 2015 8:27:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

It is possible to care about many tragedies and recognize that white male entitlement can be destructive to both human and animal.

Geez, yes, to the bolded.

Someone on my feed also compared Cecil to the Chattanooga shootings.  Two different events entirely and really, I'd also argue that I think people feel REALLY powerless to what is become a weekly event in our country.  And the guy who did that is dead.  

I also think that a lot of people find big game hunting disgusting and the cross of social media and a famous lion being killed is putting a spotlight on this "sport".

And again - as said - we can also care about more than one thing at a time.

[heyjude]

Jul 30, 2015 8:29:36 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 30, 2015 8:27:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

It is possible to care about many tragedies and recognize that white male entitlement can be destructive to human and animal.

Yes. But when you only seem to care about an animal with your (the general you) 1000 posts about Cecil, but not no posts about black lives lost, or alllivesmatter/bluelivesmatter it seems like you only care about one and that is an animal and not a person.

Again I am not talking about you heyjude just what I am seeing out there. I don't think most on here are guilty of this though.

FTR I have posted nothing about the lion on FB, although the story makes me sad and I see it as something emblematic of something bigger than one little old lion (eg western white privilege). But I have posted several items about black inequality and injustice to FB. You quoted me. That's the only reason I felt compelled to respond.

[ttt]

I mean, you could do this all day. Why do people care about a lion but not a woman? Why do people care more about a handful of people being killed by the police than the hundreds of thousands of people killed in Syria? Why isn't there a popular hashtag for what's happening to Yazidi women and girls in Iraq?

I don't really see how this is useful.

[sfy]

Jul 30, 2015 8:35:39 GMT -5 @246baje said:

And if you have spoken about racial injustice this isn't for you. The OP is talking about a phenomenon that encompasses more than the white folks of CEP.

Right? I feel like this thread is about to be full of whitesplanations, instead of acknowledging that there were people shedding honest to God tears over Cecil who haven't even gotten misty eyes over Sandra Bland. #sayhername

[underwaterrhymes]

I think this boils down to the difference between having to examine one's own prejudices and privileges versus not.

Very few Americans have been to Africa or have seen a lion in the wild, so to look at the killing of Cecil as a tragedy requires very little personal reflection. Had Cecil been a protected species of deer killed in Florida during non-hunting season, we would not have seen this outpouring of sadness because far more people would have had to look at their own behaviors and actions.

To express sorrow and anger over the ongoing murder of black men and women is more challenging for many Americans because it requires that they not only acknowledge that this is deplorable and that racism clearly still exists, but that they - if not racist themselves - have at the very least benefitted from racism.

It's absolutely not fair.

[josieposy]

There is a fair statement to be made on the DuBose case because I didn't hear about it either until this board talked about it and the major news carriers finally caught on to it. Thankfully I have yet to see anyone I know defend the officers in that case.

That said, I think we also have to keep in mind that the Cecil story is global. The asshole who shot him happens to live and work here, so I don't fault my local news for following that story more at the moment.

There is also a lot of "people care more about lions than aborted babies" talk right now, so it's almost like if you are outraged over one thing you have to outraged over everything.

[msmerymac]

Jul 30, 2015 8:37:48 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I think this boils down to the difference between having to examine one's own prejudices and privileges versus not.

Very few Americans have been to Africa or have seen a lion in the wild, so to look at the killing of Cecil as a tragedy requires very little personal reflection. Had Cecil been a protected species of deer killed in Florida during non-hurting season, we would not have seen this outpouring of sadness because far more people would have had to look at their own behaviors and actions.

To express sorrow and anger over the ongoing murder of black men and women is more challenging for many Americans because it requires that they not only acknowledge that this is deplorable and that racism clearly still exists, but that they - if not racist themselves - have at the very least benefitted from racism.

It's absolutely not fair.

I TOTALLY agree with this, which is why I basically said that it's not at all controversial to jump on the anti-lion-hunting bandwagon. There's nothing to evaluate within yourself or your own community there. White cops are killing black people without reason? Well, you've been taught that cops help people! And are good! And you're a white person and you're not racist, so not all white people are bad! And, and, and...

[ttt]

Jul 30, 2015 8:39:31 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jul 30, 2015 8:36:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

I mean, you could do this all day. Why do people care about a lion but not a woman? Why do people care more about a handful of people being killed by the police than the hundreds of thousands of people killed in Syria? Why isn't there a popular hashtag for what's happening to Yazidi women and girls in Iraq?

I don't really see how this is useful.

It is useful. People are very quick, even on this board, to default to helplessness and "I don't know what to say/do" when there are racial crimes. When a lion across the world is killed, all sorts of well formed opinions and thoughts of outrage are expressed.

Really? I see a single page thread about the lion that's already dropped off the front page and a 6-page-and-still-going thread about Sam Dubose. 

I don't think it's anything new that people care about cute, innocent things (such as animals) more than humans. 

[eponinepontmercy]

Jul 30, 2015 8:38:48 GMT -5 josieposy said:

There is a fair statement to be made on the DuBose case because I didn't hear about it either until this board talked about it and the major news carriers finally caught on to it. Thankfully I have yet to see anyone I know defend the officers in that case.

That said, I think we also have to keep in mind that the Cecil story is global. The asshole who shot him happens to live and work here, so I don't fault my local news for following that story more at the moment.

There is also a lot of "people care more about lions than aborted babies" talk right now, so it's almost like if you are outraged over one thing you have to outraged over everything.

I just had this argument on a friend's page last night.  She posted something about Cecil, and this douchebag said that we should be more outraged about Planned Parenthood's genocide and butchering babies for money. 

I have plenty of rage to go around.

[underwaterrhymes]

I also think that because this board talks about so many issues and discusses the Tamir Rices and Sandra Blands of the world so regularly, it's easy to forget that we aren't representative of the world at large. This is not getting discussed widely in the way it needs to be. It just isn't. People are either deliberately closing their eyes to this or are outwardly denying it's a problem. It's not just the cops. It's society.

I have a few friends on my Facebook who will share or like stories related to speaking out against these atrocities, but they are almost entirely from the ML board.

So I am also pissed off at the social media focus on Cecil. Here on GBCN we are largely capable of caring about more than one issue. But, generally speaking, most people do not care about what is happening to black men and women. They're not just not talking about it. They really don't see the problem. It's fucking gross.

[debatethis]

Somewhat related but I'm seeing all kinds of Cecil vs Planned Parenthood memes, too. "So many people care about that lion but where's the outrage for selling baby body parts?!" Ugh.

[heyjude]

Jul 30, 2015 8:57:27 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Somewhat related but I'm seeing all kinds of Cecil vs Planned Parenthood memes, too. "So many people care about that lion but where's the outrage for selling baby body parts?!" Ugh.

It was a Marco Rubio tweat yesterday.

[eponinepontmercy]

I was thinking that I'm seeing plenty about both and lots about #blacklivesmatter and such in my news feed, but then I realized that it's all you guys.

I get the occasional outlier, but I like my well-informed CEP bubble.

[eponinepontmercy]

Jul 30, 2015 8:59:19 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

blavity.com/this-twitter-user-just-brilliantly-parodied-cecilthelion-to-prove-a-point/

OMG the pictures of Scar.

[eclaires]

Every time this comes up, I'm reminded by the apparent apathy of my facebook feed. The only thing I've seen about either of these stories is from people here and maybe 1-2 of my other FB friends who regularly post news articles and such. And anyone who posted about Cecil also posted about Sam DuBose and other current events.

I just wonder how people can be so out of touch with what is going on, and seemingly not give a shit. I used to think maybe they just didn't think facebook was the proper venue, but I'm starting to think most just don't give a fuck. Granted I haven't posted about either of these things, but was out of town and haven't posted much of anything on facebook feed. Generally, though, I do.

[pescalita]

Jul 30, 2015 8:37:28 GMT -5 sfy said:

Jul 30, 2015 8:35:39 GMT -5 @246baje said:

And if you have spoken about racial injustice this isn't for you. The OP is talking about a phenomenon that encompasses more than the white folks of CEP.

Right? I feel like this thread is about to be full of whitesplanations, instead of acknowledging that there were people shedding honest to God tears over Cecil who haven't even gotten misty eyes over Sandra Bland. #sayhername

What, CEP specializes in defensiveness and deflection? Say it ain't so!

I can't specifically point out the people on my feed who screamed about Cecil and not Sandra Bland, but I was surprised at the quick and volumous outrage over the lion. It's awful, illegal and immoral. But it wasn't the first awful, illegal and immoral thing to happen this week. So I get why it feels icky.

Those who are my FB friends will know I'm not the news-sharing type, so maybe I can't throw stones, but it felt out of balance to me.

[underwaterrhymes]

I also think that style over substance figures in heavily here.

People loooovvee to get on board with things that ultimately do very little, but that allow them to express their emotions in a popular way.

Cecil the lion is easy. OMG, look at these Yelp reviews! Look at the stuffed animals! It's funny and it's motivating and it allows people to express their anger in a way that makes them feel good, but does it solve the problem of poaching? Are there still lions and elephants and rhinos getting killed every damn day for their heads or their ivory?

Yep.

KONY 2012 made me absolutely nuts because people were all about the sharing of that video. Awareness is just super, but Kony is still out there and vulnerable children are still getting kidnapped and killed by radical groups at alarming numbers. But people felt good about themselves. I shared this video! Look at how horrible this is!

Or let me dump a bucket of ice over my head! I'm not giving money, but look at this problem I'm bringing awareness to!

The murder of black men and women is not even getting the level of attention any of these issues are and it's a much bigger problem that affects more people closer to home. I think those of us who are tuned in feel incredibly helpless because we know that no ice bucket challenge, viral video, or Yelp review is going to fix it. But it's also sad that people don't see it as deserving of this level of attention at all. Why isn't there a bigger outcry? Why aren't people shouting from the rooftops this is NOT fucking okay!

We know that racism is a major part of this and probably the overwhelming feeling of what the hell can we do to fix it? And certainly we have the #blacklivesmatter hashtag which has cropped up, but there really should be more outrage.

As we've seen, though, outrage isn't enough to fix the problem. We need more than just awareness. We need solutions. But we aren't even starting with the first, which I do think is necessary to get to the second.

[sparrowsong]

I guess I'm in a place where I truly do care deeply about both causes. I've worked at a large cat and bear sanctuary for 6 years and am deeply immersed in causes related to lions, tigers and canned hunting. I've also posted regularly about #blacklivesmatter since last summer. It's been a difficult week for me due to both issues.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 30, 2015 9:46:25 GMT -5 sparrowsong said:

I guess I'm in a place where I truly do care deeply about both causes. I've worked at a large cat and bear sanctuary for 6 years and am deeply immersed in causes related to lions, tigers and canned hunting. I've also posted regularly about #blacklivesmatter since last summer. It's been a difficult week for me due to both issues.

Right. A lot of people here are.

But what about people not from this board? Cecil is getting considerably more attention and sympathy than black human beings are.

[AJL]

I posted on my local board that I was annoyed at the outrage from the general public as well as celebrities about Cecil's death but it was virtually crickets when it came to speaking out about Samuel Dubose's murder. Very, very few of my white friends have posted anything of substance regarding black deaths, but poor old Cecil is killed and it's being blasted from the rooftops.

I got whitesplained a bit on my board that they just felt so helpless when it came to black deaths. They don't know what to do or say and it's just too hard to deal with, blah, blah, blah. I'm so tired of the wussy-bullshit. You're not helpless. You're just scared.  Things won't change until a majority of our population start giving a shit and standing up against racist policies and actions. 

[sparrowsong]

The point is not lost on me. I just can't be sad that canned hunting is getting negative exposure. Don't worry. Everyone will see something else shiny in a few minutes, and their interest in that too will be over.

[ttt]

Jul 30, 2015 9:34:11 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 30, 2015 8:36:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

I mean, you could do this all day. Why do people care about a lion but not a woman? Why do people care more about a handful of people being killed by the police than the hundreds of thousands of people killed in Syria? Why isn't there a popular hashtag for what's happening to Yazidi women and girls in Iraq?

I don't really see how this is useful.

None of the examples you are using are happening in America to Americans. Is it so inconceivable that black people would want to be at least as valued as an animal in a foreign continent by their fellow Americans?

Would it be better if it were an American animal? Seriously, though, I understand your point, but it's not new that cute, fuzzy animals are valued more than humans. Just look at the outrage over Michael Vick's abuse of dogs and the general meh reaction over NFL players' abuse of their wives and girlfriends. 

[ttt]

Jul 30, 2015 10:18:07 GMT -5 @koko said:

Jul 30, 2015 10:16:08 GMT -5 ttt said:

Would it be better if it were an American animal? Seriously, though, I understand your point, but it's not new that cute, fuzzy animals are valued more than humans. Just look at the outrage over Michael Vick's abuse of dogs and the general meh reaction over NFL players' abuse of their wives and girlfriends. 

....so then how is pointing it out not useful?  I genuinely do not get what you're trying to say with your posts in here.  Because it's coming off really strongly as "Well we don't do it HERE, so this is not useful, pointing out to the literally millions of other Americans that don't post on GBCN that their collective and intense outrage over Cecil and their near silence over Walter Scott or Sam Dubose or domestic violence against women is a glaring issue."

I'm asking, what is the point of saying "well, why do people care so much about X tragedy when Y is much worse??" 

They're two separate issues. Caring about one doesn't make you care less about the other. And people who don't already care about Sandra Bland or Sam Dubose aren't going to care more if they stop caring about the lion. 

[sugarglider]

I've definitely seen a lot more outrage from my fb feed over Cecil than any of the recent deaths of black Americans. I have a lot of vegan friends, but even taking them out of the equation, there's a disparity. It's just not controversial to hate on trophy hunting. As an animal advocate, I'm glad this practice is getting some spotlight. But I wish more people who are involved in law enforcement would speak out against the bad cops out there instead of getting defensive or shying away from potential controversy.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 30, 2015 9:55:33 GMT -5 sparrowsong said:

The point is not lost on me. I just can't be sad that canned hunting is getting negative exposure. Don't worry. Everyone will see something else shiny in a few minutes, and their interest in that too will be over.

But it seems the point is, in fact, lost on you.

The point isn't that Cecil is getting attention.

The point is that the murder of black women and men is NOT.

It's actually worse that people keep moving onto the "next shiny thing" because this is something that needs and deserves attention now and people are not just sweeping it under the rug, they are fucking JUSTIFYING it.

[sweetday]

Jul 30, 2015 10:38:36 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jul 30, 2015 9:55:33 GMT -5 sparrowsong said:

The point is not lost on me. I just can't be sad that canned hunting is getting negative exposure. Don't worry. Everyone will see something else shiny in a few minutes, and their interest in that too will be over.

But it seems the point is, in fact, lost on you.

The point isn't that Cecil is getting attention.

The point is that the murder of black women and men is NOT.

It's actually worse that people keep moving onto the "next shiny thing" because this is something that needs and deserves attention now and people are not just sweeping it under the rug, they are fucking JUSTIFYING it.

As a "shiny" thing no less