Horrified lurker here. OP, please tell your son, in between hugs, what an important thing he did. The school authorities did something that was unfair and wrong. He came to you and told you about it. Now things are getting resolved so that he and his classmates and future students will not have to be subjected to this type of sadistic stupidity. As others have said, it's highly likely that other kids have been the victim of his crazy teacher in the past: One person speaking up can make all the difference and in this case it was him.
He is a brave little guy!
So much the bolded!! I'm sure you did, OP, but your little guy needs to know that despite his embarrassment, he did the right thing and things are going to change.
I'm going to have to think like someone with not a lick of common sense to try to understand all of this. So, I'm a well-meaning idiot who is aware of a highly restrictive restroom policy. Maybe I've never given it much thought. Maybe I've been following it for some time, with no adverse outcomes. But one day, unbeknownst to my dumb ass, a little boy poops his pants because I lack the reasoning and decision making skills to stray from this policy when it's clearly warranted. Then his poor mom questions me politely, and I still can't think of a thing to say other than, "this is the policy." No apology, no running it up the chain, no intention of ignoring this policy so as not to further embarrass and traumatize the first graders you've been entrusted with.
Come on. At which point do you start thinking like someone with a college degree and a functioning colon?
Post by sweetbrier on Sept 2, 2015 15:09:04 GMT -5
I am so sorry your son had to go through that. With the updates, I would be going to the principal and demanding an explanation for why they lied as well as the teacher asking for an apology to your son, and ask if he'd like to switch classes. I totally agree with informing news stations about the principal and teacher, because having the media hound the principal about why they'd do something like make up a policy like that might really drive in how horrible it is.
DD started K this year and I'm so emotional over it. If she had a potty accident because of these two fucks and then they lied about district policy on top of it, I'd do something very bad to them. I don't know exactly what but it would be BAD.
I hope the principal is fired. I also wonder what other fuckery he has in place under 'District Policy' that isn't a thing and is also harmful to students.
If the teacher is just following the principal's made up rule blindly, it still hurts my head to think that such a rigid nincompoop is teaching children. It's not a stretch to say that she's the type of adult who quash kids' imagination and spirit for the sake of order.
I know it's not always financially or logistically feasible, but in addition to lighting them ON FIRE for their lies and abuse, I'd want to pull my kid from the school. Obviously not like tra la la we're out who cares anymore, but I would not be certain I could refrain from punching that teacher and principal in the face EACH TIME I SAW THEM.
Post by janetplanet20 on Sept 2, 2015 15:56:25 GMT -5
Not only would I email the superintendent thanking him for informing you that there is no such policy, CCing the teacher and principal, I'd also be at the school asking the principal in person why he and the teacher blatantly lied to me about the policy. I'd want to see his reaction myself, rather than give him time to craft a response via email. And anytime they tried to backtrack about what they previously said I'd call them on it.
Post by residentdj on Sept 2, 2015 15:57:36 GMT -5
How easy is it to fire a teacher and/or principal if they do not have tenure? Because if that teacher is new, as much as I hate to see someone lose their job, THAT bitch needs to lose hers. And same goes for the asshat that lied and backed her up. Burn, bitches, burn!!!!
Did not actually have to go to the superintendent's office, but spoke with him on the phone. He is ripshit mad as well. This "policy" does not exist. At all. He had no idea what I was talking about. He is taking the matter VERY seriously and my kiddo and others will be allowed to use the restrooms when they need to go. Period.
Edit: So the teacher and principal are liars. Which makes me even more pissed.
I'd insist at the very least my child be switched to another teacher. I'd really want some type of professional discipline for both the principal and the teacher and I'd demand a written apology to my son. What fucking assholes.
I am late to this post but seeing as my DD just started public school yesterday, this is horrifying. It would absolutely break my heart if my child had to hold it in for so long that she ended up soiling herself. What scumbags!! I cannot wait to hear what happens to the teacher and principal.
I would request a new classroom for your son if I were you. Wait, I would DEMAND it.
Holy shit, I cannot believe they lied!! I would seriously have a hard time with my son continuing at that school knowing that the person in charge of the school made up this rule and was enforcing it like it was doctrine at the detriment of the students.
I am so sorry that this happened to your son, runmama. My little boy is about that age, and I can only picture how mortified your son must have been, and him trying to be all adult about it and clean himself up.
I hope your little guy is having good days at school despite this. Hopefully none of his classmates caught on.
What in the world is wrong with people that they would let this happen to a child. I'm so sorry, runmama.
I'm betting those liars will lie about what they said and how you must have been confused. I doubt they are going to admit to being lying, stupid, and bitches. Glad no other students will suffer from the fake policy. I appreciate you not letting the issue die and advocating for your son and classmates.
You seem reasonable with your policy so I won't give you a hard time I just want to say that I always hated the 'you should have gone between classes' response teachers would give when I was in HS. 5 minutes was barely enough time to get to your locker, switch out your books and make it to the next class let alone use the bathroom. You MIGHT be able to squeeze in a pee if there wasn't a line and you passed the restroom on the way to class (2 story building with 1 restroom on each floor). If you had to poop though, there was no way you were going to do that between classes without being tardy.
To the bolded, I have no idea how big your school is, but when I was in Jr. High my schedule frequently had to haul it from one side of the school to the other, stop at my locker during only the appointed passing periods, wade through a horde of students, etc. It was all I could do to get to the next class in time. Tieing up at least three of those minutes going to the bathroom would have made me late. Maybe your students can do more in five minutes than I could :-)
I had one teacher in HS who tried to ban people going to the bathroom "on her time." My mother told me in no uncertain terms she was uninterested in me getting a UTI so that some English teacher with an axe to grind could prove her point. If I really needed to go, I was to go, and she'd deal with the school.
Sorry I didn't come back last night.. I went to bed shortly after posting. I did want to say that my hallway (where ALL the lockers are and where ALL their classes are) is literally 6 classrooms, total, with the bathrooms square in the middle. 5 minutes really IS enough time if they're not jacking around. Plus, if they stop by my room in between classes, I always let them be up to 2-3 minutes tardy for "free" and will also often let kids go 1-2 minutes early at the end of class.
But would it still work if, let's say 40 people wanted to go?
rugbywife -- Between the 5 minutes of passing period plus a few minutes into the next class (as I just explained I allow if they just check in real quick)? You really think that's unreasonable? Plus allowing anyone to go if they ask twice and/or are willing to take a "strike" (which by itself does nothing to them and carries absolutely no consequence)? Also always allowing kids to go the first time if they are doing independent work? This is really crazy?
Do you think that 14 year olds should be able to have carte blanche to leave the classroom every time they ask?
I would be irresponsible if I just gave a blanket yes to every kid who asked to use the restroom every time they asked.. Middle school kids would be abusing the hell out of that.
OP--I'm glad that it's not a district policy and I'm sorry your kid's teacher was being a lying control freak about the bathroom uses. That's awful. Also, your kid is adorable and I hope none of the other kids are giving him a hard time about it!
I was just asking if they could still make it in that timeframe if a whole bunch of kids had to go. It was just a question, it depends how many stalls you have and how many students there are.
As for the 'carte blanche'...honestly, I didn't have a firm system. Kids asked if I was in the middle of a lesson, I asked if it was an emergency, if they said yes, I let them. Kids could go whenever they wanted during work time. There was a system for 2 students to be out at any given time (they put a plunger on their desk, they didn't need to ask to go, that way I was interrupted if I was busy, but if there was an emergency I could see if someone was gone), but if both plungers were in use, anyone could ask me and I would let them go. If there was a student who seemed to be 'abusing' the system, I would have a conversation with them with regards to why they seemed to be going so often and how they might be able to time their visits differently. But most of the students who DID seem to abuse it, well, it wasn't a surprise, they usually needed a 'break' and frankly, it was better if they took it.
I was just asking if they could still make it in that timeframe if a whole bunch of kids had to go. It was just a question, it depends how many stalls you have and how many students there are.
As for the 'carte blanche'...honestly, I didn't have a firm system. Kids asked if I was in the middle of a lesson, I asked if it was an emergency, if they said yes, I let them. Kids could go whenever they wanted during work time. There was a system for 2 students to be out at any given time (they put a plunger on their desk, they didn't need to ask to go, that way I was interrupted if I was busy, but if there was an emergency I could see if someone was gone), but if both plungers were in use, anyone could ask me and I would let them go. If there was a student who seemed to be 'abusing' the system, I would have a conversation with them with regards to why they seemed to be going so often and how they might be able to time their visits differently. But most of the students who DID seem to abuse it, well, it wasn't a surprise, they usually needed a 'break' and frankly, it was better if they took it.
I'm glad you had a system that worked for you.
My system is working for me and it is not punitive. I promise you that when I say the amount of time IS plenty, I am taking into consideration the hallway and restroom situation in my individual school.
I have a great rapport with my students and if one of them needed a break to get out of the classroom for another reason, they have discreet ways of communicating that with me (and they do, and I grant it!).
The way I handle the restroom is not unhealthy for kids and would never result in a child being truly uncomfortable or having an accident. Within a few weeks into the school year, the kids learn exactly when during class is a great time to go and when they would miss something important.
omg, again, you are taking this WAY too personally. I asked a question. That's it. And you asked if I thought students deserved carte blanche and I shared what I did. At no point did I say ANYTHING about whether your system was good or bad, I just asked a question about whether kids would have enough time if there were, I don't know, 20 kids who all needed to go within that 5 minute time frame. All you had to say was "yes, they would have enough time".
edit: also, my system was with grade 8s, for most of my career as a teacher. I actually don't have give a shit what my teachers do so long as a child is never systematically denied the right to go to the bathroom. I had a grade 6 teacher last year who told her students they could only go at break times. I explained that was unacceptable.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Sept 2, 2015 19:18:19 GMT -5
I disagree with that policy. At our school, seventh graders can go to the bathroom four times in a week in addition to our group bathroom times. If a kid said "I have to go," I let them go.
I got burned on this when I student taught with second graders. My cooperating teacher said that they could not go to the bathroom except at certain times. A girl named Chelsey peed her pants, and I feel bad to this day even though I was not in full charge of them at the time. The fact that I still remember her name after 18 yrs speaks volumes.
I'd talk to the teacher first because maybe she's marginalized and afraid of her principal coming back on her for disobeying the policy. I know I am extra careful to CMA because I'm not in the "in crowd."
omg, again, you are taking this WAY too personally. I asked a question. That's it. And you asked if I thought students deserved carte blanche and I shared what I did. At no point did I say ANYTHING about whether your system was good or bad, I just asked a question about whether kids would have enough time if there were, I don't know, 20 kids who all needed to go within that 5 minute time frame. All you had to say was "yes, they would have enough time".
I took your questioning to be antagonistic, given the exaggerated number of students you listed. I'm sorry if I took it as more salty than you intended it.
So, fine -- "Yes, that would have enough time." --- but if one time it wasn't, I'd talk with them and we'd figure something out.
At my last school (where I was admin) we had 7 classes of nearly 30 students per class for grades 7 and 8...so 210 students. One bathroom they were supposed to use, I think 2 stall in each (I actually have no idea how many urinals the boys had, lol). I just envisioned it not working well in our context if they had to go between periods. At the last school I taught grade 8 at, it was even more, like 250+ students and maybe 6 or 8 stalls. I just figured it wouldn't be a quick process in 5 minutes, if you include getting stuff from their lockers (they weren't supposed to do that, but they still did) and travelling.