I thought it was too long and dragged in places. The whole casino scene was too long. I really don't like the fact that they seem to be setting up a Rey-Finn-Rose love triangle. Seeing Leia looking fairly lifeless once injured hit me hard (thinking of Carrie Fisher).
There was also a lot I liked. I liked the scene where Snoke was killed and the tension of Kylo/Rey fighting. For a few minutes, you think this is going to be Kylo's redemption like when Vadar killed the Emperor to save Rey. I liked Poe realizing that he wasn't always right- his whole arc was good this time. Laura Dern's character was strong, especially at the end. I absolutely loved Luke projecting the fight with Kylo.
I really didn't like how there was such build-up to some characters in TFA and just in general who ended up being so unimportant. Snoke, Captain Phasma - both of these characters were duds overall.
Yoda looked so cartoonish
But they brought back puppet Yoda! No more terrible CGI! I was very happy.
I thought it was too long and dragged in places. The whole casino scene was too long. I really don't like the fact that they seem to be setting up a Rey-Finn-Rose love triangle. Seeing Leia looking fairly lifeless once injured hit me hard (thinking of Carrie Fisher).
There was also a lot I liked. I liked the scene where Snoke was killed and the tension of Kylo/Rey fighting. For a few minutes, you think this is going to be Kylo's redemption like when Vadar killed the Emperor to save Rey. I liked Poe realizing that he wasn't always right- his whole arc was good this time. Laura Dern's character was strong, especially at the end. I absolutely loved Luke projecting the fight with Kylo.
I really didn't like how there was such build-up to some characters in TFA and just in general who ended up being so unimportant. Snoke, Captain Phasma - both of these characters were duds overall.
Right? I mean, Captain Phasma is played by Gwendolyn Christie. Let her do cool stuff!
I did really like the callback to the beginning of Luke's journey with the 2 suns
I'm glad you mentioned this. It's so funny, I actually scanned this thread before I saw the movie this weekend, and I didn't see anyone say that Luke died, so I was very surprised (I gasped out loud). This whole bit was SO well done. They played the exact same theme music as they did in the scene above, just as Old Luke also watched the suns set as he died.
When Luke kissed Leia on the forehead in the cave, I flat out started crying.
I did really like the callback to the beginning of Luke's journey with the 2 suns
I'm glad you mentioned this. It's so funny, I actually scanned this thread before I saw the movie this weekend, and I didn't see anyone say that Luke died, so I was very surprised (I gasped out loud). This whole bit was SO well done. They played the exact same theme music as they did in the scene above, just as Old Luke also watched the suns set as he died.
When Luke kissed Leia on the forehead in the cave, I flat out started crying.
That was intentional. John Williams talked about it in the mini documentary that they had about the score for the fan event. There are quite a few musical easter eggs in the soundtrack.
I'm glad you mentioned this. It's so funny, I actually scanned this thread before I saw the movie this weekend, and I didn't see anyone say that Luke died, so I was very surprised (I gasped out loud). This whole bit was SO well done. They played the exact same theme music as they did in the scene above, just as Old Luke also watched the suns set as he died.
When Luke kissed Leia on the forehead in the cave, I flat out started crying.
That was intentional. John Williams talked about it in the mini documentary that they had about the score for the fan event. There are quite a few musical easter eggs in the soundtrack.
I have a slightly unhealthy hatred for John Williams, but I liked this.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Dec 18, 2017 16:54:17 GMT -5
I loved the way that at every turn it looked like it was going to be yet another overdone Star Wars trope from the original movies... and then they went a totally different way almost every time.
Although they still haven't convinced me they are really going another way with Rey's parentage. I don't think Kylo was lying, but what he saw was as likely what Snoke wanted him to see as it was the truth. That said, it's almost as hard to imagine Luke having sex as it is to imagine Leia having a child she doesn't know about...
I liked Rose a lot. I liked that she seemed meaningfully different than any of our previous heros/ines, and thought she provided a good contrast. Considering that the rebels now fit in the Falcon, I think her perspective will be especially important in Episode 9.
I was hoping Leia was in a coma most of this movie so that they could use footage of her in Episode 9 too, but then I checked the internet, and it looks like no.
Post by theoriginalbean on Dec 18, 2017 20:28:42 GMT -5
We just saw it for the second time (DS didn't want to miss school to see it, wtf?) and I thought it was better the second time around. There were so many more little things and foreshadowing that I didn't notice the first time around. Add me to the disappointed with the deaths of Phasma and Snoke - I wanted so much more of their stories! I may have to delve into the novels.
I did really like the callback to the beginning of Luke's journey with the 2 suns
I'm glad you mentioned this. It's so funny, I actually scanned this thread before I saw the movie this weekend, and I didn't see anyone say that Luke died, so I was very surprised (I gasped out loud). This whole bit was SO well done. They played the exact same theme music as they did in the scene above, just as Old Luke also watched the suns set as he died.
When Luke kissed Leia on the forehead in the cave, I flat out started crying.
Yes! I was crying during that scene with Luke and Leia too.
Post by childofhiphop on Dec 19, 2017 0:30:58 GMT -5
Ok. I avoided this thread all weekend, so if anyone is still out there...
There were always more Jedi’s than just the Skywalker’s. I don’t believe Rey is a Skywalker.
Why does Kylo Ren have to have good in him? He murdered his father! There are plenty of people in history (and Star Wars space?) that are/were pure evil because of power and greed. I think the only reason Darth Vader was conflicted was because he realized he had been lied to that he killed Padme and the baby and that he was a father to Luke. He showed no conflict when he was killing Obi Wan - only when he met Luke Skywalker.
I loved that leia was the fearless when both Han and Luke left the cause.
Will Hux become the military brains to Kylo? The General Tarkin to Darth Vader?
And Kylo is a evil liar so why would he be telling the honest to goodness truth to Rey about her parents?
Benicio’s character seemed like a repeat of the same crazy he played in Guardians of the Galaxy. The Collector.
Ok. I avoided this thread all weekend, so if anyone is still out there...
There were always more Jedi’s than just the Skywalker’s. I don’t believe Rey is a Skywalker.
Why does Kylo Ren have to have good in him? He murdered his father! There are plenty of people in history (and Star Wars space?) that are/were pure evil because of power and greed. I think the only reason Darth Vader was conflicted was because he realized he had been lied to that he killed Padme and the baby and that he was a father to Luke. He showed no conflict when he was killing Obi Wan - only when he met Luke Skywalker.
I loved that leia was the fearless when both Han and Luke left the cause.
Will Hux become the military brains to Kylo? The General Tarkin to Darth Vader?
And Kylo is a evil liar so why would he be telling the honest to goodness truth to Rey about her parents?
Benicio’s character seemed like a repeat of the same crazy he played in Guardians of the Galaxy. The Collector.
Kylo having good in him is part of the plot. He’s supposed to be a confused, conflicted person. Definitely not all evil. This shows up in quite a few places, but the evidence I would point to in this movie include not being able to kill leia, and killing Snoke over kills Rey. True, he doesn’t deserve a nice guy award for simply not killing his mom, but in a franchise that has treaded in black and white, good vs evil, these are strong indicators that Kylo is supposed to be something grayer. He’s also not much of a liar. His version of what happened between him and Luke was closer to the truth. Luke, our light Jedi master, is the one who straight up lied to Rey.
Post by theoriginalbean on Dec 19, 2017 9:51:45 GMT -5
meshaliuknits, I'm guessing the book you referenced about Phasma was the one actually called "Phasma?" I've not read any of the SW novels, but I'm thinking that I need to start going through them. Any suggestions on where to start? Is there an equivalent "Machete Order" for the books?
meshaliuknits , I'm guessing the book you referenced about Phasma was the one actually called "Phasma?" I've not read any of the SW novels, but I'm thinking that I need to start going through them. Any suggestions on where to start? Is there an equivalent "Machete Order" for the books?
Yes, that's the book I was talking about. I really enjoyed it. Her comic was also quite good.
I have no idea if there's a preferred order or recommended order. I bounce all around the timeline depending on what sounds interesting to me. But my favorites so far have been Phasma, Lost Stars and Thrawn (OMG I LOVED THIS BOOK). Bloodlines and Tarkin were also solid reads.
I would suggest holding off on the Aftermath trilogy until you're properly invested. The first book is reeeeeeeaaaaalllllllly slow. They get better as they go, though.
ETA: Those are all canon. If you want Legends recs, let me know.
meshaliuknits , I'm guessing the book you referenced about Phasma was the one actually called "Phasma?" I've not read any of the SW novels, but I'm thinking that I need to start going through them. Any suggestions on where to start? Is there an equivalent "Machete Order" for the books?
Yes, that's the book I was talking about. I really enjoyed it. Her comic was also quite good.
I have no idea if there's a preferred order or recommended order. I bounce all around the timeline depending on what sounds interesting to me. But my favorites so far have been Phasma, Lost Stars and Thrawn (OMG I LOVED THIS BOOK). Bloodlines and Tarkin were also solid reads.
I would suggest holding off on the Aftermath trilogy until you're properly invested. The first book is reeeeeeeaaaaalllllllly slow. They get better as they go, though.
ETA: Those are all canon. If you want Legends recs, let me know.
Thank you! I'll start there and then definitely circle back for more recommendations!
That was intentional. John Williams talked about it in the mini documentary that they had about the score for the fan event. There are quite a few musical easter eggs in the soundtrack.
I have a slightly unhealthy hatred for John Williams, but I liked this.
I have a slightly unhealthy hatred for John Williams, but I liked this.
Is this board going to ruin John Williams for me?
No, nothing like that. He tends to "borrow" from other composers. Like, I can listen to something he wrote and literally hear other songs in them. Not just influence, which is super common in music throughout time.
It's a pretty common criticism of his work. People who love him are personally offended by the idea, though. Googling "John Williams borrowed music" should give you an idea.
No, nothing like that. He tends to "borrow" from other composers. Like, I can listen to something he wrote and literally hear other songs in them.
It's a pretty common criticism of his work. People who love him are personally offended by the idea, though.
I think he's a fantastic conductor.
Disclaimer: my undergrad degree is in music.
Ah, good! (ETA - I was afraid there was some seedier open secret about him that I hadn't heard.)
I have a terrible ear, so I've never noticed other composers' work, but I've definitely heard places where he referenced his own work and even I thought it sounded distractingly similar!
But I'm not surprised to hear he borrows from other people. Our philharmonic recently did a concert of John Williams music from Spielberg films, and one thing that really stood out to me was that it seemed like there were "trends" in film scores, so some things sounded distinctly 80s or 90s, and some things really stood out as being tied to a particular genre.
I love a lot of his work, but I think it's probably valid criticism.
meshaliuknits , I'm guessing the book you referenced about Phasma was the one actually called "Phasma?" I've not read any of the SW novels, but I'm thinking that I need to start going through them. Any suggestions on where to start? Is there an equivalent "Machete Order" for the books?
If you liked Rogue One I highly suggest reading Catalyst and Rebel Rising for more backstory on Krennic, Galen and Jyn.
Bloodlines was a good read.
The TFA novelization has a few more details than the movie so you might want to give that a read.
The TLJ novelization wont be out until March and it is killing me to have to wait that long.
Start with whatever books you can get your hands on. The Aftermath trilogy is now in paperback so you can get all 3 books for the price of 1 hardback.
Ok. I avoided this thread all weekend, so if anyone is still out there...
There were always more Jedi’s than just the Skywalker’s. I don’t believe Rey is a Skywalker.
Why does Kylo Ren have to have good in him? He murdered his father! There are plenty of people in history (and Star Wars space?) that are/were pure evil because of power and greed. I think the only reason Darth Vader was conflicted was because he realized he had been lied to that he killed Padme and the baby and that he was a father to Luke. He showed no conflict when he was killing Obi Wan - only when he met Luke Skywalker.
I loved that leia was the fearless when both Han and Luke left the cause.
Will Hux become the military brains to Kylo? The General Tarkin to Darth Vader?
And Kylo is a evil liar so why would he be telling the honest to goodness truth to Rey about her parents?
Benicio’s character seemed like a repeat of the same crazy he played in Guardians of the Galaxy. The Collector.
Can you be more specific as to what lies Kylo is guilty of telling? His version of the incident with Luke is more closely aligned with the actual truth that Rey forces out of Luke and it is told from his point of view. He also has nothing to gain by lying to Rey. Go back and watch Rey's interaction with Maz in TFA; it is pretty obvious that Rey is in denial about her parents and she has most likely repressed her memories.
Why cant Kylo have good in him? He still feels the call to the light side of the force so it is pretty obvious that even the force feels that there is something in him that is still good. If you cannot see why he is conflicted and how he ended up the way he is you really need to go back and look at his past. Leia, Han and Luke are all partially responsible for the "monster" that he became. Leia was too busy playing politician while Ben was growing up to give him the attention and love he needed. Han was running all over the damn galaxy in the Falcon instead of staying home with his family. When Ben shows signs of being force sensitive his parents ship him off to Luke to deal with the problem. Luke already has his hands full with the next generation of Jedi and isn't prepared to deal with Ben. All the while Snoke is whispering in Ben's ear and slowly luring him in and *gasp* OMFG he is paying attention to him. When Luke realizes that the dark side has its hooks in Ben he first reaction is to KILL BEN instead of help him. And people wonder why Kylo has some anger issues when it comes to his uncle Luke; I'd be pissed as hell too if the person who was supposed to help me decided that they wanted to kill me instead. Ben's parents failed him and Luke failed him and he turned to the only person who seemed to give a damn about him; unfortunately, that person happened to be a dark side force user who wanted to exploit his powers. You don't have to like Kylo but don't dismiss his past that helped shape him. Ben didn't just wake up one morning and decide to go full dark side and turn into Kylo Ren; events in his past slowly drove him to the dark side and his family had a hand in driving him there.
Ok. I avoided this thread all weekend, so if anyone is still out there...
There were always more Jedi’s than just the Skywalker’s. I don’t believe Rey is a Skywalker.
Why does Kylo Ren have to have good in him? He murdered his father! There are plenty of people in history (and Star Wars space?) that are/were pure evil because of power and greed. I think the only reason Darth Vader was conflicted was because he realized he had been lied to that he killed Padme and the baby and that he was a father to Luke. He showed no conflict when he was killing Obi Wan - only when he met Luke Skywalker.
I loved that leia was the fearless when both Han and Luke left the cause.
Will Hux become the military brains to Kylo? The General Tarkin to Darth Vader?
And Kylo is a evil liar so why would he be telling the honest to goodness truth to Rey about her parents?
Benicio’s character seemed like a repeat of the same crazy he played in Guardians of the Galaxy. The Collector.
Can you be more specific as to what lies Kylo is guilty of telling? His version of the incident with Luke is more closely aligned with the actual truth that Rey forces out of Luke and it is told from his point of view. He also has nothing to gain by lying to Rey. Go back and watch Rey's interaction with Maz in TFA; it is pretty obvious that Rey is in denial about her parents and she has most likely repressed her memories.
Why cant Kylo have good in him? He still feels the call to the light side of the force so it is pretty obvious that even the force feels that there is something in him that is still good. If you cannot see why he is conflicted and how he ended up the way he is you really need to go back and look at his past. Leia, Han and Luke are all partially responsible for the "monster" that he became. Leia was too busy playing politician while Ben was growing up to give him the attention and love he needed. Han was running all over the damn galaxy in the Falcon instead of staying home with his family. When Ben shows signs of being force sensitive his parents ship him off to Luke to deal with the problem. Luke already has his hands full with the next generation of Jedi and isn't prepared to deal with Ben. All the while Snoke is whispering in Ben's ear and slowly luring him in and *gasp* OMFG he is paying attention to him. When Luke realizes that the dark side has its hooks in Ben he first reaction is to KILL BEN instead of help him. And people wonder why Kylo has some anger issues when it comes to his uncle Luke; I'd be pissed as hell too if the person who was supposed to help me decided that they wanted to kill me instead. Ben's parents failed him and Luke failed him and he turned to the only person who seemed to give a damn about him; unfortunately, that person happened to be a dark side force user who wanted to exploit his powers. You don't have to like Kylo but don't dismiss his past that helped shape him. Ben didn't just wake up one morning and decide to go full dark side and turn into Kylo Ren; events in his past slowly drove him to the dark side and his family had a hand in driving him there.
No dismissing any of this. It was my impression that the movie showed both points of view - Luke and Kylo - I haven’t seen it a second time but it didn’t seem to expound on which one was the truth.
As for Kylo becoming all bad. I just think there is a chance that the new power and title of Supreme Leader could go to his head whether there is some good in him or not. See reaction to Hux’s questioning of no longer having a Supreme Leader.
Can you be more specific as to what lies Kylo is guilty of telling? His version of the incident with Luke is more closely aligned with the actual truth that Rey forces out of Luke and it is told from his point of view. He also has nothing to gain by lying to Rey. Go back and watch Rey's interaction with Maz in TFA; it is pretty obvious that Rey is in denial about her parents and she has most likely repressed her memories.
Why cant Kylo have good in him? He still feels the call to the light side of the force so it is pretty obvious that even the force feels that there is something in him that is still good. If you cannot see why he is conflicted and how he ended up the way he is you really need to go back and look at his past. Leia, Han and Luke are all partially responsible for the "monster" that he became. Leia was too busy playing politician while Ben was growing up to give him the attention and love he needed. Han was running all over the damn galaxy in the Falcon instead of staying home with his family. When Ben shows signs of being force sensitive his parents ship him off to Luke to deal with the problem. Luke already has his hands full with the next generation of Jedi and isn't prepared to deal with Ben. All the while Snoke is whispering in Ben's ear and slowly luring him in and *gasp* OMFG he is paying attention to him. When Luke realizes that the dark side has its hooks in Ben he first reaction is to KILL BEN instead of help him. And people wonder why Kylo has some anger issues when it comes to his uncle Luke; I'd be pissed as hell too if the person who was supposed to help me decided that they wanted to kill me instead. Ben's parents failed him and Luke failed him and he turned to the only person who seemed to give a damn about him; unfortunately, that person happened to be a dark side force user who wanted to exploit his powers. You don't have to like Kylo but don't dismiss his past that helped shape him. Ben didn't just wake up one morning and decide to go full dark side and turn into Kylo Ren; events in his past slowly drove him to the dark side and his family had a hand in driving him there.
No dismissing any of this. It was my impression that the movie showed both points of view - Luke and Kylo - I haven’t seen it a second time but it didn’t seem to expound on which one was the truth.
As for Kylo becoming all bad. I just think there is a chance that the new power and title of Supreme Leader could go to his head whether there is some good in him or not. See reaction to Hux’s questioning of no longer having a Supreme Leader.
In TFA I thought Kylo Ren was an entertaining villain but omg so emo/whiny. I'm not typically a villain fan anyway so I didn't think too much about it.
But after TLJ, I really think Kylo Ren is one of the most compelling villains and I am a big fan. He has a great story and is a fully developed character with all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see where they take him. Vs Most villains where I just want them to die.
In TFA I thought Kylo Ren was an entertaining villain but omg so emo/whiny. I'm not typically a villain fan anyway so I didn't think too much about it.
But after TLJ, I really think Kylo Ren is one of the most compelling villains and I am a big fan. He has a great story and is a fully developed character with all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see where they take him. Vs Most villains where I just want them to die.
Interesting, because Luke is SO emo/whiny in Ep. 4, and in Ep. 5, he becomes much more developed and compelling as a hero. I love that parallel.
eta: This is, of course, my humble, only-watched-the-movies opinion
In TFA I thought Kylo Ren was an entertaining villain but omg so emo/whiny. I'm not typically a villain fan anyway so I didn't think too much about it.
But after TLJ, I really think Kylo Ren is one of the most compelling villains and I am a big fan. He has a great story and is a fully developed character with all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see where they take him. Vs Most villains where I just want them to die.
Interesting, because Luke is SO emo/whiny in Ep. 4, and in Ep. 5, he becomes much more developed and compelling as a hero. I love that parallel.
eta: This is, of course, my humble, only-watched-the-movies opinion
Luke has never been one of my faves but you're right. He did continually get better.
I think what I like most about this trilogy and Kylo Ren is his path to the dark side is sympathetic to some degree. That may have been the goal with Anakin's backstory but really all that boiled down to was he was stupid. Granted maybe a better actor and better prequels could make me feel differently about that but he always seemed so dumb. In the end it was his actions that killed Padme!
In TFA I thought Kylo Ren was an entertaining villain but omg so emo/whiny. I'm not typically a villain fan anyway so I didn't think too much about it.
But after TLJ, I really think Kylo Ren is one of the most compelling villains and I am a big fan. He has a great story and is a fully developed character with all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see where they take him. Vs Most villains where I just want them to die.
Agreed. I told DH I thought he was boring and whiny in TFA, but he's a thousand times more interesting and compelling in TLJ.
Post by alleinesein on Dec 20, 2017 3:26:08 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing the 3D IMAX version. Definitely way better in IMAX. They upgraded the seats in the IMAX theater so I will definitely be going back to that theater for future movies. They showed the Avengers trailer in 3D; I got to see my precious little Loki *swoon*
So the DJ selling them out to the First Order- DJ hears the entire conversation that Finn and Poe have about Holdo fueling up the transports. That is how he knew to tell the FO to scan for them.
The cave "mirror" scene. Anyone else notice that the shadowed outline is Kylo? In the concept art the scene was supposed to have Rey seeing herself with Kylo's mask but that didn't make it into the film.
In TFA I thought Kylo Ren was an entertaining villain but omg so emo/whiny. I'm not typically a villain fan anyway so I didn't think too much about it.
But after TLJ, I really think Kylo Ren is one of the most compelling villains and I am a big fan. He has a great story and is a fully developed character with all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see where they take him. Vs Most villains where I just want them to die.
Interesting, because Luke is SO emo/whiny in Ep. 4, and in Ep. 5, he becomes much more developed and compelling as a hero. I love that parallel.
eta: This is, of course, my humble, only-watched-the-movies opinion
Ditto - I think the whiny dialogue as Kylo starts to fight Luke in this one was a throwback to that previous Luke.