You’re just...going really hard in the paint for Edmure at the expense of a character we’ve watched change and grow for 10y and I don’t really feel like there’s back and forth engagement in discussion here. I truly do not understand how it’s discourteous to tell someone to sit down when they are being a fool (and please go rewatch all of Edmure’s scenes - he is a buffoon in the show and is always shown having tension with his more capable Stark nieces and nephews) or why Edmure isn’t outranked in every way by Sansa (both as a character and in title - has anyone even returned lord paramount of the riverlands to house Tully? Is there a Tully army? Because it’s clear House Stark is LP of the north. Not to mention the “north” that declared independence initially included the riverlands and Jon was named king, and he chose Sansa to oversee the north in his absence).
I think your complaint has maybe evolved into one about wanting more time with minor characters instead of Sansa’s not having some elaborate plan to shut Edmure up behind the scenes but that doesn’t make Sansa rude or out of character. Everything this season needed more time and episodes in my opinion but that’s not a problem with “uncle, please sit” and it not making any sense in character. It isn’t discourteous by any stretch of the imagination and I’m sorry you don’t want to accept it, but yes, Sansa Stark is incredibly more powerful and relevant than Edmure Tully and will be in the books if they’re ever finished too.
Ultimately, you’ve not addressed any substantive comments about this and instead keep saying the same thing different ways, talking down to everyone here and being condescending. Which is fine. I’m all about being condescending obviously. But, don’t be surprised when people don’t agree and call you out for it.
What are your thoughts on this scene? I thought it was beyond awesome!
🤷♀️ I think the show overall has excelled in dramatic scenery this season. This is just another example of that work. Even episode 5 was incredibly shot. Th he scenes set the stage for the plot and story to be told through the writing, which was lacking.
I honestly feel that D And D got in over their heads and what was once a dragon became kind of al albatross.
I agree. The cinematography this season was outstanding. So was the musical score.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
You’re just...going really hard in the paint for Edmure at the expense of a character we’ve watched change and grow for 10y and I don’t really feel like there’s back and forth engagement in discussion here. I truly do not understand how it’s discourteous to tell someone to sit down when they are being a fool (and please go rewatch all of Edmure’s scenes - he is a buffoon in the show and is always shown having tension with his more capable Stark nieces and nephews) or why Edmure isn’t outranked in every way by Sansa (both as a character and in title - has anyone even returned lord paramount of the riverlands to house Tully? Is there a Tully army? Because it’s clear House Stark is LP of the north. Not to mention the “north” that declared independence initially included the riverlands and Jon was named king, and he chose Sansa to oversee the north in his absence).
I think your complaint has maybe evolved into one about wanting more time with minor characters instead of Sansa’s not having some elaborate plan to shut Edmure up behind the scenes but that doesn’t make Sansa rude or out of character. Everything this season needed more time and episodes in my opinion but that’s not a problem with “uncle, please sit” and it not making any sense in character. It isn’t discourteous by any stretch of the imagination and I’m sorry you don’t want to accept it, but yes, Sansa Stark is incredibly more powerful and relevant than Edmure Tully and will be in the books if they’re ever finished too.
Ultimately, you’ve not addressed any substantive comments about this and instead keep saying the same thing different ways, talking down to everyone here and being condescending. Which is fine. I’m all about being condescending obviously. But, don’t be surprised when people don’t agree and call you out for it.
If I could just agree and add one small thing here...Anastasia you keep saying the show showed motivations and viewpoints of secondary characters in earlier seasons.
No, they didnt. And in the case of Edmure Tully especially he was NEVER EVER a POV character! His POV was always: in every single scene he ever was in was explored through the eyes of POV characters.
He was a fuck up and weak lord.
You seem to have missed the narrative Nd plot points of the council meeting and are a Tully fish on the hook on this one point.
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
Bran is an incompetent version of Elizabeth I. The war of the roses is over. we've got our heirless monarch. Now Westeros will turn to fucking up the colonies Arya's will to found out west (in places the iron born already went).
And let's not pretend Edmure would be a weaker, less able monarch than mister "I'll go meditate about a dragon." Not that I was rooting for Edmure, but I am doubling down on Bran being a crap choice. THat's why Sansa's heading back to Scotland and telling the rest of them they can jump off a cliff.
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
When's he gonna die though? He's also the 3ER, so he will likely live for what, hundreds of years? I don't think they thought about that part when making him the leader. 😬
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
When's he gonna die though? He's also the 3ER, so he will likely live for what, hundreds of years? I don't think they thought about that part when making him the leader. 😬
Unless they take him out which seeing how NK, dany, and Cersei went out, doesn't seem that unattainable
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
I don't care, because it's over?
If GRRM decides to finish the books and he goes beyond this point, then I'll start worrying about it. I don't have the bandwidth to do the "what happens next" shit.
When's he gonna die though? He's also the 3ER, so he will likely live for what, hundreds of years? I don't think they thought about that part when making him the leader. 😬
Unless they take him out which seeing how NK, dany, and Cersei went out, doesn't seem that unattainable
I can see it now, 200 years into the future the citizens of Westeros become really suspicious of how long he's living. lol
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
I don't care, because it's over?
If GRRM decides to finish the books and he goes beyond this point, then I'll start worrying about it. I don't have the bandwidth to do the "what happens next" shit.
Well because the whole point is that Bran "breaks the wheel" but he probably didn't. We have a King who is uninterested in ruling (he's playing with ravens instead of hunting and whoring but still) on track for a repeat war for the throne. So what was the whole point of it?
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
I don't care, because it's over?
If GRRM decides to finish the books and he goes beyond this point, then I'll start worrying about it. I don't have the bandwidth to do the "what happens next" shit.
Sure it may be over but setting up a mostly dude council with dudes who haven't had anything but their own interests at heart (for the most part) is a far cry from breaking the wheel.
Especially when they named Bran, who's powers we have no idea the extent of, but who I believe knew that the destruction of Kings Landing would make him king - doesn't really strike me, again, as breaking the wheel at all. They just made a new wheel.
If GRRM decides to finish the books and he goes beyond this point, then I'll start worrying about it. I don't have the bandwidth to do the "what happens next" shit.
Well because the whole point is that Bran "breaks the wheel" but he probably didn't. We have a King who is uninterested in ruling (he's playing with ravens instead of hunting and whoring but still) on track for a repeat war for the throne. So what was the whole point of it?
the whole point of it is that the wheel can't be broken, then. I don't know. I work with what's in front of me, and in this case, the iron throne is gone, there's a guy who for all purposes is family-less in charge, and the people making the decisions both in KL and the North are not power hungry assholes. If somewhere down the line, the story continues, then I'll start making connections to what happened, but I won't hold my breath.
I also just don't become an expert in these things. I use them for entertainment and move on to the next thing.
Well because the whole point is that Bran "breaks the wheel" but he probably didn't. We have a King who is uninterested in ruling (he's playing with ravens instead of hunting and whoring but still) on track for a repeat war for the throne. So what was the whole point of it?
the whole point of it is that the wheel can't be broken, then. I don't know. I work with what's in front of me, and in this case, the iron throne is gone, there's a guy who for all purposes is family-less in charge, and the people making the decisions both in KL and the North are not power hungry assholes. If somewhere down the line, the story continues, then I'll start making connections to what happened, but I won't hold my breath.
I also just don't become an expert in these things. I use them for entertainment and move on to the next thing.
I'm not saying it's right or what I would do but Dany's approach could have worked if she offed her self afterwards lol
If GRRM decides to finish the books and he goes beyond this point, then I'll start worrying about it. I don't have the bandwidth to do the "what happens next" shit.
Well because the whole point is that Bran "breaks the wheel" but he probably didn't. We have a King who is uninterested in ruling (he's playing with ravens instead of hunting and whoring but still) on track for a repeat war for the throne. So what was the whole point of it?
Breaking the wheel was primarily Dany's dream. It always struck me as part of her egocentric thinking. The "turning wheel" of controlling houses hadn't always been turning. It had only been in play for her fairly short lifetime. Before that, the Targaryens had been in power for centuries leading a united Westeros. And before that, the seven kingdoms hadn't even been united. She's was barren and couldn't found a dynasty nor could her dragons, so she wants everything to end with her (ie. the broken wheel). Burning down Kings Landing fits perfectly with her nihilistic egocentrism.
I'm just happy that people have very strong feelings about something in the fantasy realm. A lot of times it's overlooked as fluff. Welcome to my world! Sit and enjoy, there are dragons and adventures that await!
I'm just happy that people have very strong feelings about something in the fantasy realm. A lot of times it's overlooked as fluff. Welcome to my world! Sit and enjoy, there are dragons and adventures that await!
This seems a fitting segue to ask: what other books do people recommend? I tend to avoid fantasy because so much feels misogynistic, even some with clear female leads.
In keeping with the books and world making of GRRM, this cycle has been repeated ad naseum for thousands of years. In fact, when this takes place, the world is more primitive than it was before. The story ends as it should, as a continuation of the past. People are too used to happy endings that wrap things up. I'm enjoying the discomfort this is creating.
In keeping with the books and world making of GRRM, this cycle has been repeated ad naseum for thousands of years. In fact, when this takes place, the world is more primitive than it was before. The story ends as it should, as a continuation of the past. People are too used to happy endings that wrap things up. I'm enjoying the discomfort this is creating.
THANK YOU. I was starting to wonder if I was missing something.
Yeahhhh I'm kind of here. When Bran dies, they're going to politely vote for a new one or will we be right back where we were in Season 1/2?
Bran is an incompetent version of Elizabeth I. The war of the roses is over. we've got our heirless monarch. Now Westeros will turn to fucking up the colonies Arya's will to found out west (in places the iron born already went).
And let's not pretend Edmure would be a weaker, less able monarch than mister "I'll go meditate about a dragon." Not that I was rooting for Edmure, but I am doubling down on Bran being a crap choice. THat's why Sansa's heading back to Scotland and telling the rest of them they can jump off a cliff.
So is Dany = Queen Mary? Sansa's kid is going to end up taking the throne like King James?
I love War of the Roses/Tudor history and have been trying to figure out the parallels for the last few years. lol.
In keeping with the books and world making of GRRM, this cycle has been repeated ad naseum for thousands of years. In fact, when this takes place, the world is more primitive than it was before. The story ends as it should, as a continuation of the past. People are too used to happy endings that wrap things up. I'm enjoying the discomfort this is creating.
Oh interesting. I think my frustration is because it seems too much like a happy ending with things wrapped up too well - for the starks especially.
I think it's a fair criticism to not like the ending because it felt rush rather than because it didn't "go my way". You're right. I'm still entertained but still found it lacking.
I want to like the ending but they didn't do a great job of getting the watcher there like they did in the previous seasons.
I truly don’t care if anyone likes or dislikes Sansa. I love her, she’s fantastic and I think she was right all season and probably 90% of the series. Dany is the actual worst of all characters with Tyrion being a close second and both just ate up valuable time all season which was annoying AF to me. Jon Snow after this season was a fairly close third. IN MY OPINION. And everyone else is welcome to theirs. I’d probably even debate all that without irritation.
I just am not here for Sansa’s main crime being telling Edmure Tully to sit down because it’s not courteous due to courtesy being her armor in the books and apparently the only thing important in Westeros. Along with the implication that Edmure Tully might outrank her - wtf? Then adding a bunch of booksplaining paragraphs and nauseum and never responding to valid arguments with anything substantive, just going in circles about actual nonsense. If I think someone is being ridiculous and condescending, I’m going to say that. People can agree or disagree with character’s actions, dislike characters, not like the ending, WHATEVER. I certainly have a whole boatload of complaints and will talk about this dumb show for the rest of my life and the books for even longer if they’re ever published, most likely.
If you don’t like mansplaining, booksplaining is actually more apt, and I encourage everyone to use that instead. It’s hilarious, too.
I'm just happy that people have very strong feelings about something in the fantasy realm. A lot of times it's overlooked as fluff. Welcome to my world! Sit and enjoy, there are dragons and adventures that await!
This seems a fitting segue to ask: what other books do people recommend? I tend to avoid fantasy because so much feels misogynistic, even some with clear female leads.
Someone sent me a list of female fantasy authors. I’ll see if I can dig it up. I can’t vouch for any of them yet but I can post them!
I truly don’t care if anyone likes or dislikes Sansa. I love her, she’s fantastic and I think she was right all season and probably 90% of the series. Dany is the actual worst of all characters with Tyrion being a close second and both just ate up valuable time all season which was annoying AF to me. Jon Snow after this season was a fairly close third. IN MY OPINION. And everyone else is welcome to theirs. I’d probably even debate all that without irritation.
I just am not here for Sansa’s main crime being telling Edmure Tully to sit down because it’s not courteous due to courtesy being her armor in the books and apparently the only thing important in Westeros. Along with the implication that Edmure Tully might outrank her - wtf? Then adding a bunch of booksplaining paragraphs and nauseum and never responding to valid arguments with anything substantive, just going in circles about actual nonsense. If I think someone is being ridiculous and condescending, I’m going to say that. People can agree or disagree with character’s actions, dislike characters, not like the ending, WHATEVER. I certainly have a whole boatload of complaints and will talk about this dumb show for the rest of my life and the books for even longer if they’re ever published, most likely.
If you don’t like mansplaining, booksplaining is actually more apt, and I encourage everyone to use that instead. It’s hilarious, too.
I was going to bold the part I agree with, but then realized I agree with everything you just said.
Well, that's not true. I love Tyrion and Dany, and Jon Snow grew on me.
I love Sansa because of her arc, from having almost zero agency to calling the shots. I think she earned it. I was thinking how little time Sansa got as a character this season, but then hardly anyone got the time you'd expect, this season was so rushed.
I still kind of think the way she treated Edmure was out of character, not because he deserved any better treatment but just because it seemed like a line pitched to the tv audience, not the situation. But that's a quibble to me compared to Lady Greyjoy not speaking up when Sansa gets independence for the North, or them all allowing Tyrion this long speech, or the content of the speech, which put nicely was unconvincing, or everyone agreeing to elect Bran king so readily, and Bran seeming ALL about it, even though he kept telling Jon it was Jon's destiny, which maybe was a chess move on his part, but the writers did nothing to indicate this... etc.
Overall I loved the spectacle of it, and it made me more interested in books to come, if they ever do.
I truly don’t care if anyone likes or dislikes Sansa. I love her, she’s fantastic and I think she was right all season and probably 90% of the series. Dany is the actual worst of all characters with Tyrion being a close second and both just ate up valuable time all season which was annoying AF to me. Jon Snow after this season was a fairly close third. IN MY OPINION. And everyone else is welcome to theirs. I’d probably even debate all that without irritation.
I just am not here for Sansa’s main crime being telling Edmure Tully to sit down because it’s not courteous due to courtesy being her armor in the books and apparently the only thing important in Westeros. Along with the implication that Edmure Tully might outrank her - wtf? Then adding a bunch of booksplaining paragraphs and nauseum and never responding to valid arguments with anything substantive, just going in circles about actual nonsense. If I think someone is being ridiculous and condescending, I’m going to say that. People can agree or disagree with character’s actions, dislike characters, not like the ending, WHATEVER. I certainly have a whole boatload of complaints and will talk about this dumb show for the rest of my life and the books for even longer if they’re ever published, most likely.
If you don’t like mansplaining, booksplaining is actually more apt, and I encourage everyone to use that instead. It’s hilarious, too.
I was going to bold the part I agree with, but then realized I agree with everything you just said.
Well, that's not true. I love Tyrion and Dany, and Jon Snow grew on me.
I actually have mixed feelings on most every character over the course of the series even though by the end some were really on my nerves. There are times I love them, times I want to shake them, etc. Which I think is why I loved the show and books. I like characters with flaws, it makes them more interesting!
I still can’t believe Dorne and the Iron Islands didn’t demand independence too. Both have pretty distinct developed cultures and traditions like the north does.