I can't wait until GRRM never finishes these books!
My H is convinced that they are done and he is just sitting on them pending the end of the show. lolz
He claims they aren’t done but seriously. He probably has like three bazillion pages but can’t edit them.
I hold out no hope they will be finished but I was validated once the show outpaced the books on several topics with my husband - the only person I really truly enjoy being right and lording it over. So I’m satisfied.
Post by foundmylazybum on May 22, 2019 13:52:51 GMT -5
Come on. This is nonsense. These posts have been going on for YEARS, and I can remember disagreeing with people about arcs, stories, motives etc.
I also know that "i" have read the books a couple times, watch the shows multiple times, read articles, twitter, talk here etc. Its not like I'm a luddite on GOT and neither are many people on this board.
It is SUPER ANNOYING to be talked to like I'm this idiot who just doesnt get it and have plot points explained to me, which has happened multiple times.
Anastasia isnt the only GOT fan here.
I wont apologize for finally giving her feedback on how she often comes across here. I like her contributions, knowledge and passion but not her condescension.
I love Sansa because of her arc, from having almost zero agency to calling the shots. I think she earned it. I was thinking how little time Sansa got as a character this season, but then hardly anyone got the time you'd expect, this season was so rushed.
I still kind of think the way she treated Edmure was out of character, not because he deserved any better treatment but just because it seemed like a line pitched to the tv audience, not the situation. But that's a quibble to me compared to Lady Greyjoy not speaking up when Sansa gets independence for the North, or them all allowing Tyrion this long speech, or the content of the speech, which put nicely was unconvincing, or everyone agreeing to elect Bran king so readily, and Bran seeming ALL about it, even though he kept telling Jon it was Jon's destiny, which maybe was a chess move on his part, but the writers did nothing to indicate this... etc.
Overall I loved the spectacle of it, and it made me more interested in books to come, if they ever do.
I more than slightly disagree with this. I mean being a girl aside, she had moments to speak up but chose not too. I'm not knocking her doing what she wanted to do in order to achieve her goals (to be queen) but to act like she no agency in the beginning isn't really fair. Now, her rise from Ramsey's to Queen of the North, that, I liked.
I think some of y’all are being kind of rude. Many of you in here have had strong feelings about these books and this show for years and no one treats you like y’all are treating Anastasia. And telling a woman she is mansplaining to you is fucked up. She may have come across as if she was talking over other people, but she apologized. She is not required to agree with you about your favorite literary/ television character.
.
No, she was mansplaining and after telling me that I use my black card too often she can go sit in the fucking corner with Edmure crying about how life isn't fair.
I don't understand what she doesn't get about the fact that bloodlines, hierarchy and status don't matter anymore. Pretty much everyone is dead and they are starting with a clean slate and staying away from bloodline Kingship. It was a metaphor that things have changed, and rightfully so.
Ps- I am almost positive she was the one who said that but in the off chance I am being, I apologize, lol.
I loved Sansa telling Edmure to please sit. Stopping his peacocking around and trying to claim the throne was her courteously saving everyone else from having to speak up. I mean, look at this screen grab from Chrys reviews... this is some serious fremdschämen here from the Prince of Dorne, Robin Arryn, Lord Royce, and the other guy:
Also, this season had lots of fan service lines. Like Cesei and the Golden Company's elephants? Totally a line for the viewers to let them know there aren't going to be any CGI elephants getting burninated by Drogon.
Getting mad about things that are hilariously but appropriately used in content (see also Cersei peacing out during Clegane Bowl) helped make me be entertained even as the season rushed past and didn't always use it's time effectively.
Post by amberlyrose on May 22, 2019 15:26:50 GMT -5
Saw this in the comments on a buzzfeed article.
Tyrion walks into a brothel with a honeycomb and a jackass. Madame: What can we do for you? Tyrion: I need a woman to lay with, for mine has left me. Madame: Whatever for? And what's with the honeycomb and the mule? Tyrion: My woman found a genie in a bottle, and he granted her three wishes. The first was for a house fit for a queen, so he gave her this damn honeycomb. The second wish was that she have the nicest ass in all the land, so he gave her this damn donkey... Madame: And what about the third wish? Tyrion: Well... she asked the genie to make my c*** hang down past my knee. Madame: Well that one's not so bad eh? Tyrion: Not so bad!? I used to be six foot three!
I think some of y’all are being kind of rude. Many of you in here have had strong feelings about these books and this show for years and no one treats you like y’all are treating Anastasia. And telling a woman she is mansplaining to you is fucked up. She may have come across as if she was talking over other people, but she apologized. She is not required to agree with you about your favorite literary/ television character.
.
No, she was mansplaining and after telling me that I use my black card too often she can go sit in the fucking corner with Edmure crying about how life isn't fair.
I don't understand what she doesn't get about the fact that bloodlines, hierarchy and status don't matter anymore. Pretty much everyone is dead and they are starting with a clean slate and staying away from bloodline Kingship. It was a metaphor that things have changed, and rightfully so.
Ps- I am almost positive she was the one who said that but in the off chance I am being, I apologize, lol.
That was absolutely not me. I mostly lurk to see what is going on in the US.
I hope GRRM finishes the books, because I'm curious to read a version where events actually lead up to Bran taking the throne. But I also suspect he'll never finish them. Because that's how he decided he wanted it to end, but now he can't figure out how to get there either!
I hope GRRM finishes the books, because I'm curious to read a version where events actually lead up to Bran taking the throne. But I also suspect he'll never finish them. Because that's how he decided he wanted it to end, but now he can't figure out how to get there either!
or - a tyrion POV portion where we hear his thoughts about why he thinks Bran is crap but manipulable and therefore most likely to release him from bondage and give him essentially the power of kingship as the hand to a raven enthusiast. A pure power hungry move.
Post by laladypoet on May 23, 2019 15:52:03 GMT -5
literally every time we saw edmure, he was getting chastised by his family. so "family loyalty" is bunk in this situation, because sansa was treating him nicer than kat or the black fish or robb did (there was no eye-rolling this time), and also because you can be loyal to family while knowing they'd make a horrible king and are embarrassing themselves. I don't get what is happening here. weird as fuck hill to die on.
I didn't intend for it to be a hill to die on. I have tried to move on multiple times, accepting that my opinion is not popular here. It was also only 1 of 3 paragraphs in the post about my surprise based on a larger issue I have with the show and their portrayals of women they want to portray as strong in 1 of 2 ways - a fighter or as somebody quipping one liners. Earlier seasons have plenty of kinds of strong female characters with a lot more nuance, but I feel like they were all reduced to people who fight and/or go crazy and/or snark, whhile constantly involved in conflicts that had no logical reason to exist except show drama. I found it impossible to take the council the Arya and Sansa lines I found cringy in seriously, given that it was being run by a convicted kingslayer and kinslayer who was a prisoner at that moment and pretty much nobody else got to speak.
In general - I have re-read my comments and the vast majority of what I said was also show stuff, so kindly fuck off with "booksplaining" to replace "mansplaining".** I thank rvan0905 for agreeing that it is offensive to use that term on a woman based on disagreements about a TV show. This also started last week where apparently it was funny to call it mansplaining when I was pointing out how I thought D&D's Inside the Episode explanation for Dany's madness was BS, using examples of thoughts from books only because it is hard to show thoughts in television and because book & season 1 were extremely similar, down to exact conversations. For the record, the reason I felt the need to argue against it (even if I did have to use book thoughts as a reference) was because I found the D&D comments to be very offensive and harmful and upsetting in an extremely personal way, only to be compounded by reactions to the comments.
**Since apparently people won't drop this or believe that I was trying to stick to show canon here are some of the show facts things I mentioned from past posts in the last 2 weeks: Varys and Illyrio’s plan being to put crazy Viserys on the throne clearly beingg against the good of the realm, examples of courtesies (involving Stannis, Renly, Catelyn, Robert, Cersei, and others), Edmure surrendering Riverrun knowing it couldn’t be held forever so to save lives and at the threat to his baby’s life (funnily enough, what Bran did to Theon), the assumption that Jon is Lord of Winterfell now that he gave up his kingdom (based on Aegon’s conquest, which the show never really got into, but given what houses are ruling this is presumably show fact that a kneeling king becomes Lord of Winterfell since he was Warden of the North, rather than his younger cousin/sister/whatever characters think she is), a question of how one lord/lady should presume to outrank another even if she IS Lady of Winterfell at this point (to which the answer was "but she's a main character" which made me laugh). There were also a bunch of repetitions that boil down to how I think it’s dumb to risk pissing off a man who is your uncle, leader of the land bordering yours, and who had pledged fealty to the Kingdom of the North and then was held captive for years because of Robb’s breaking of the marriage pact, and the common sense of politics when you live in an area that has always had winters lasting multiple years and you live in a castle that was destroyed twice over, which would logically have destroyed greenhouses and the hope for growing food in the winter.
I can't wait until GRRM never finishes these books!
My H is convinced that they are done and he is just sitting on them pending the end of the show. lolz
George denied that one day, saying he didn't want to have a deadline he couldn't meet again. The next day he came out and said if Winds isn't out by Worldcon next year we can lock him up in a cabin. A Dream of Spring, on the other hand...
I can't wait until GRRM never finishes these books!
My H is convinced that they are done and he is just sitting on them pending the end of the show. lolz
George denied that one day, saying he didn't want to have a deadline he couldn't meet again. The next day he came out and said if Winds isn't out by Worldcon next year we can lock him up in a cabin. A Dream of Spring, on the other hand...
Well, I'm shocked to hear that, because isn't WoW the one that's turning out to be super long and he thinks it should be two volumes??
George denied that one day, saying he didn't want to have a deadline he couldn't meet again. The next day he came out and said if Winds isn't out by Worldcon next year we can lock him up in a cabin. A Dream of Spring, on the other hand...
Well, I'm shocked to hear that, because isn't WoW the one that's turning out to be super long and he thinks it should be two volumes??
Yeah, he said each book is going to be 1,500 pages long, soooo...
I don't want to slow GRRM down because I really want to read the books, but I don't think he can wrap up the series in two books.
I didn't intend for it to be a hill to die on. I have tried to move on multiple times, accepting that my opinion is not popular here. It was also only 1 of 3 paragraphs in the post about my surprise based on a larger issue I have with the show and their portrayals of women they want to portray as strong in 1 of 2 ways - a fighter or as somebody quipping one liners. Earlier seasons have plenty of kinds of strong female characters with a lot more nuance, but I feel like they were all reduced to people who fight and/or go crazy and/or snark, whhile constantly involved in conflicts that had no logical reason to exist except show drama. I found it impossible to take the council the Arya and Sansa lines I found cringy in seriously, given that it was being run by a convicted kingslayer and kinslayer who was a prisoner at that moment and pretty much nobody else got to speak.
In general - I have re-read my comments and the vast majority of what I said was also show stuff, so kindly fuck off with "booksplaining" to replace "mansplaining".** I thank rvan0905 for agreeing that it is offensive to use that term on a woman based on disagreements about a TV show. This also started last week where apparently it was funny to call it mansplaining when I was pointing out how I thought D&D's Inside the Episode explanation for Dany's madness was BS, using examples of thoughts from books only because it is hard to show thoughts in television and because book & season 1 were extremely similar, down to exact conversations. For the record, the reason I felt the need to argue against it (even if I did have to use book thoughts as a reference) was because I found the D&D comments to be very offensive and harmful and upsetting in an extremely personal way, only to be compounded by reactions to the comments.
**Since apparently people won't drop this or believe that I was trying to stick to show canon here are some of the show facts things I mentioned from past posts in the last 2 weeks: Varys and Illyrio’s plan being to put crazy Viserys on the throne clearly beingg against the good of the realm, examples of courtesies (involving Stannis, Renly, Catelyn, Robert, Cersei, and others), Edmure surrendering Riverrun knowing it couldn’t be held forever so to save lives and at the threat to his baby’s life (funnily enough, what Bran did to Theon), the assumption that Jon is Lord of Winterfell now that he gave up his kingdom (based on Aegon’s conquest, which the show never really got into, but given what houses are ruling this is presumably show fact that a kneeling king becomes Lord of Winterfell since he was Warden of the North, rather than his younger cousin/sister/whatever characters think she is), a question of how one lord/lady should presume to outrank another even if she IS Lady of Winterfell at this point (to which the answer was "but she's a main character" which made me laugh). There were also a bunch of repetitions that boil down to how I think it’s dumb to risk pissing off a man who is your uncle, leader of the land bordering yours, and who had pledged fealty to the Kingdom of the North and then was held captive for years because of Robb’s breaking of the marriage pact, and the common sense of politics when you live in an area that has always had winters lasting multiple years and you live in a castle that was destroyed twice over, which would logically have destroyed greenhouses and the hope for growing food in the winter.
1 - have you gone back to watch Edmure’s scenes yet? Just curious. You seem to consistently latch onto one or two things he does but don’t seem to want to admit the show has always used him in this way and that the Blackfish treated him with disdain.
2 - it was never just “she’s a main character,” please try rereading all of my posts. But yes, I do think it’s silly/dumb you are hung up on Edmure’s status that doesn’t exist in any realistic way in show canon (or book canon for that matter) compared to Sansa Stark’s status. You can argue what you idealistically think should happen or people’s status should be but I’m over here living in reality. And it is not crazy or rude or discourteous or OOC for someone with significantly more power in every way to ask someone else to sit down politely! You don’t like Sansa, you don’t like she gets a better ending than most, just admit it! It’s gotten really disingenuous up in here and THAT is my problem with this whole discussion. Throwing around walls of texts justifying it doesn’t make it less transparent and obvious.
3 - booksplaining forever. You consistently talk and respond to people in these posts like the only thing they do is watch the show and that is literally their only consumption of GOT/ASOIAF media. It’s tired and the fact that you just get defensive about that feedback/criticism and latch onto deciding “mansplaining” is offensive (as is booksplaining apparently - LOL), when it’s clearly shorthand for overconfident and condescending, which is how people apparently see your posts.
4 - people responded to one paragraph of three because it was so patently ridiculous.
I didn't intend for it to be a hill to die on. I have tried to move on multiple times, accepting that my opinion is not popular here. It was also only 1 of 3 paragraphs in the post about my surprise based on a larger issue I have with the show and their portrayals of women they want to portray as strong in 1 of 2 ways - a fighter or as somebody quipping one liners. Earlier seasons have plenty of kinds of strong female characters with a lot more nuance, but I feel like they were all reduced to people who fight and/or go crazy and/or snark, whhile constantly involved in conflicts that had no logical reason to exist except show drama. I found it impossible to take the council the Arya and Sansa lines I found cringy in seriously, given that it was being run by a convicted kingslayer and kinslayer who was a prisoner at that moment and pretty much nobody else got to speak.
In general - I have re-read my comments and the vast majority of what I said was also show stuff, so kindly fuck off with "booksplaining" to replace "mansplaining".** I thank rvan0905 for agreeing that it is offensive to use that term on a woman based on disagreements about a TV show. This also started last week where apparently it was funny to call it mansplaining when I was pointing out how I thought D&D's Inside the Episode explanation for Dany's madness was BS, using examples of thoughts from books only because it is hard to show thoughts in television and because book & season 1 were extremely similar, down to exact conversations. For the record, the reason I felt the need to argue against it (even if I did have to use book thoughts as a reference) was because I found the D&D comments to be very offensive and harmful and upsetting in an extremely personal way, only to be compounded by reactions to the comments.
**Since apparently people won't drop this or believe that I was trying to stick to show canon here are some of the show facts things I mentioned from past posts in the last 2 weeks: Varys and Illyrio’s plan being to put crazy Viserys on the throne clearly beingg against the good of the realm, examples of courtesies (involving Stannis, Renly, Catelyn, Robert, Cersei, and others), Edmure surrendering Riverrun knowing it couldn’t be held forever so to save lives and at the threat to his baby’s life (funnily enough, what Bran did to Theon), the assumption that Jon is Lord of Winterfell now that he gave up his kingdom (based on Aegon’s conquest, which the show never really got into, but given what houses are ruling this is presumably show fact that a kneeling king becomes Lord of Winterfell since he was Warden of the North, rather than his younger cousin/sister/whatever characters think she is), a question of how one lord/lady should presume to outrank another even if she IS Lady of Winterfell at this point (to which the answer was "but she's a main character" which made me laugh). There were also a bunch of repetitions that boil down to how I think it’s dumb to risk pissing off a man who is your uncle, leader of the land bordering yours, and who had pledged fealty to the Kingdom of the North and then was held captive for years because of Robb’s breaking of the marriage pact, and the common sense of politics when you live in an area that has always had winters lasting multiple years and you live in a castle that was destroyed twice over, which would logically have destroyed greenhouses and the hope for growing food in the winter.
1 - have you gone back to watch Edmure’s scenes yet? Just curious. You seem to consistently latch onto one or two things he does but don’t seem to want to admit the show has always used him in this way and that the Blackfish treated him with disdain.
2 - it was never just “she’s a main character,” please try rereading all of my posts. But yes, I do think it’s silly/dumb you are hung up on Edmure’s status that doesn’t exist in any realistic way in show canon (or book canon for that matter) compared to Sansa Stark’s status. You can argue what you idealistically think should happen or people’s status should be but I’m over here living in reality. And it is not crazy or rude or discourteous or OOC for someone with significantly more power in every way to ask someone else to sit down politely! You don’t like Sansa, you don’t like she gets a better ending than most, just admit it! It’s gotten really disingenuous up in here and THAT is my problem with this whole discussion. Throwing around walls of texts justifying it doesn’t make it less transparent and obvious.
3 - booksplaining forever. You consistently talk and respond to people in these posts like the only thing they do is watch the show and that is literally their only consumption of GOT/ASOIAF media. It’s tired and the fact that you just get defensive about that feedback/criticism and latch onto deciding “mansplaining” is offensive (as is booksplaining apparently - LOL), when it’s clearly shorthand for overconfident and condescending, which is how people apparently see your posts.
4 - people responded to one paragraph of three because it was so patently ridiculous.
Well, as far as I can tell the characters in universe have no way of knowing about things like Robb’s was council or Hoster’s funeral. It seems like Brienne witnessing him commanding the gates of Riverrun is the only time another member of that council was present. I would have been WTF-ing if Gendry knew about Sweetrobin’s breastfeeding and archery failures or if the random prince of Dorne knew about Yara failing to get Theon or at the Kingsmoot, or something else along those lines was used. A lot of people really didn’t know each other there, which added to my “huh!?” reaction. For the characters who we didn’t follow and didn’t meet, they really only could have known basic things about each other like if they had been heir or who they fought for in the War of the 5 Kings. I would have had the same problem if another of the great lords told somebody to sit down under these circumstances, especially when it seems like the prisoner was the only one with an idea of who should become king.
Again, I did want Sansa to be named Queen in the North, going back a couple years. I thought it was dumb that they would name Jon at the end of season 6 rather than Ned’s trueborn daughter. They should have had to have been convinced Jon wasn’t a traitor to the Night’s Watch instead of naming him king. I dislike that the writers have made all the strong female characters behave one of two ways because they seem to think you need to be a fighter or snarky to be strong, not Sansa.
So. As a viewer I am supposed to reject everything on screen I see because it is potentially unlikely the people onscreen know each other or anything about each other? No one has had any interaction with Edmure Tully over the years or knows anything about him? Even prior to the wars? And I should instead retcon an entire character and reject what I’ve seen when he is on screen to support some wildly irrelevant argument that Sansa is OOC by “rudely” telling him to sit down?
Good god in heaven. I cannot. Do you ever hear anything about people you live around or interact with despite not witnessing it first hand? Do you think everyone on that council is ignorant to the fact that Edmure was imprisoned for years and the riverlands likely decimated? Do you think they are all totally ignorant of the fact that his uncle was disdainful of him? Do you think the stories of his actions throughout the war didn’t make their way anywhere? People gossip in the seven kingdoms I promise you and know things even without direct knowledge. It’s how the world works. People don’t live in impenetrable chambers. Word travels. Even in Westeros!
I’m pretty sure that if Tywin Lannister was still alive and told one of the other lords to sit down, everyone would just go with it. He may not technically outrank them, but that doesn’t mean he doesn't command the authority to act like it. It’s not about rank, it’s about power.
Except eclaires hasn't been posting her opinion as fact for the last 8 weeks and taking a condescending tone to people who dare to question her. It isn't just this thread.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
And from my side of this argument, I have no desire to shut down people who share Anastasia’s opinion. If posters agree with her and want to post, I welcome that. It’s not like we are the only two people in the world watching GoT, or engaging on this topic here for that matter.