But..Jezebels. 😐 Jezebel's is not a sexy place! They consistently interpret it as this somewhat high class establishment, through lighting scenery, fin music and costuming (June in nice make up, flowing hair and a sequence dress with fred, clicking LOUBOUTAINS and a skin tight dress working out a plane). Its not supposed to aspirational!
I don't understand what you mean by this. It's a high class brothel (only, you know, without the exchange of money). I don't think there's anything aspirational about it, nor do I think the writer's intend for us to interpret it that way. It's a place the men go to be entertained and get laid.
But..Jezebels. 😐 Jezebel's is not a sexy place! They consistently interpret it as this somewhat high class establishment, through lighting scenery, fin music and costuming (June in nice make up, flowing hair and a sequence dress with fred, clicking LOUBOUTAINS and a skin tight dress working out a plane). Its not supposed to aspirational!
I don't understand what you mean by this. It's a high class brothel (only, you know, without the exchange of money). I don't think there's anything aspirational about it, nor do I think the writer's intend for us to interpret it that way. It's a place the men go to be entertained and get laid.
Actually in the book, Atwood made a point of making Jezebel's seem cheap and pretty shitty as opposed to "high class." Moira wears an old, ill fitting play boy bunny costume while June puts on old, cakey make up to go to a run down hotel turned whore house. There is actually either a Martha or an Aunt with a cattle prod who monitors the women. The book made going there seem pretty pathetic. Instead here we vet to see June all dressed up for date night! 🙄
As I said in both episodes, Jezebel's the scene setting is designed to be "high class" and that tricks the audience into thinking going there is cool. Um. It's not. June wears a gorgeous sequence dress and her hair looks like a 40s movie star in the first visit, while in the second, she has on 500$ shoes.
They set the scene through lighting, music, costuming and editing to make Jezebel's look "cool" rather than what it is: a dangerous shit box where commanders are coming to use women.
I don't understand what you mean by this. It's a high class brothel (only, you know, without the exchange of money). I don't think there's anything aspirational about it, nor do I think the writer's intend for us to interpret it that way. It's a place the men go to be entertained and get laid.
Actually in the book, Atwood made a point of making Jezebel's seem cheap and pretty shitty as opposed to "high class." Moira wears an old, ill fitting play boy bunny costume while June puts on old, cakey make up to go to a run down hotel turned whore house. There is actually either a Martha or an Aunt with a cattle prod who monitors the women. The book made going there seem pretty pathetic. Instead here we vet to see June all dressed up for date night! 🙄
As I said in both episodes, Jezebel's the scene setting is designed to be "high class" and that tricks the audience into thinking going there is cool. Um. It's not. June wears a gorgeous sequence dress and her hair looks like a 40s movie star in the first visit, while in the second, she has on 500$ shoes.
They set the scene through lighting, music, costuming and editing to make Jezebel's look "cool" rather than what it is: a dangerous shit box where commanders are coming to use women.
I 100% did not get the impression that it is cool. I mean the look on all of the woman's faces is not one of enjoyment. The way the woman was manhandled at the bar, she wasn't acting like she was having fun or thought it was cool. I think it still comes off as a dangerous shitbox, just one that is gilded.
I don't understand what you mean by this. It's a high class brothel (only, you know, without the exchange of money). I don't think there's anything aspirational about it, nor do I think the writer's intend for us to interpret it that way. It's a place the men go to be entertained and get laid.
As I said in both episodes, Jezebel's the scene setting is designed to be "high class" and that tricks the audience into thinking going there is cool.
I’ve read the book twice, but don’t remember the details of Jezebel’s. Even if they are making it “classier” in the show, I strongly disagree with the above. I don’t think anyone who watches this show thinks it is a “cool” place to go, except maybe for the commanders, which certainly doesn’t make anyone aspire to go there.
Actually in the book, Atwood made a point of making Jezebel's seem cheap and pretty shitty as opposed to "high class." Moira wears an old, ill fitting play boy bunny costume while June puts on old, cakey make up to go to a run down hotel turned whore house. There is actually either a Martha or an Aunt with a cattle prod who monitors the women. The book made going there seem pretty pathetic. Instead here we vet to see June all dressed up for date night! 🙄
As I said in both episodes, Jezebel's the scene setting is designed to be "high class" and that tricks the audience into thinking going there is cool. Um. It's not. June wears a gorgeous sequence dress and her hair looks like a 40s movie star in the first visit, while in the second, she has on 500$ shoes.
They set the scene through lighting, music, costuming and editing to make Jezebel's look "cool" rather than what it is: a dangerous shit box where commanders are coming to use women.
I 100% did not get the impression that it is cool. I mean the look on all of the woman's faces is not one of enjoyment. The way the woman was manhandled at the bar, she wasn't acting like she was having fun or thought it was cool. I think it still comes off as a dangerous shitbox, just one that is gilded.
ITA. I got the opposite impression - basically women are being dressed up and made to look fancy just to be paraded around and abused by men. There is nothing fun about that for the woman, it's another way they are being required to look or behave a certain way to fit this culture.
I mean I guess I'm coming at it from my own perspective where wearing painful heels and a tight dress and being expected to be looked at doesn't sound like any fun to me. If you love that sort of thing maybe I can see how it looks a little glamorous in the show? Still, it is readily apparent that none of the women are enjoying their interactions with men. I do think it looks glamorous for the men but if viewers aren't pieces of shit I don't think they would want to be there, either.
As a side note, I was SO relieved that we didn't have to watch June get raped again. When they were setting that up I was thinking "really, show? Are we Game of Thrones now? This is getting gratuitous". Very happy with the turn of events that happened instead.
I also did not see the Canadian border thing coming. I thought Serena had genuinely gone back to her marriage. I love the twist. Also, how stupid of Waterford to get so close to the Canadian border to begin with! I feel like if I were him I'd want to stay hundreds of miles away. I can't wait to see what happens next.
Post by thelurkylulu on Aug 2, 2019 9:47:30 GMT -5
Agree with PP that this was the best episode of the season and needed to happen 6 episodes ago.
I have such a love/hate relationship with Serena. She is such a terrible person and then she goes and does something like betraying Fred and makes me so happy. BUT I do recognize that everything she does is self serving. She thinks she’s going to get access to Nichole.
I don't get what Waterford thought they were going to do. Did he think that they were bringing baby Nichole and it was some back hand room deal? I was a bit confused on what he thought was going to happen.
As I said in both episodes, Jezebel's the scene setting is designed to be "high class" and that tricks the audience into thinking going there is cool.
I’ve read the book twice, but don’t remember the details of Jezebel’s. Even if they are making it “classier” in the show, I strongly disagree with the above. I don’t think anyone who watches this show thinks it is a “cool” place to go, except maybe for the commanders, which certainly doesn’t make anyone aspire to go there.
The audience well knows that they're slapping lipstick on a pig because the men want to live in a fantasy while they're there. It's a rape brothel.
I don't get what Waterford thought they were going to do. Did he think that they were bringing baby Nichole and it was some back hand room deal? I was a bit confused on what he thought was going to happen.
I guess I thought Tuello was going to take them to Canadian officials so they could have some sort of face to face conversation that would presumably sway the Canadian government to give her back. I didn't think too hard about what was going to happen, but I definitely thought that was a big twist and didn't expect it.
Post by foundmylazybum on Aug 2, 2019 10:20:49 GMT -5
Well, there are two viewpoints for the show. The characters and the viewers. I'm coming at it from the viewers point (mine), and again through setting, lighting, music, costuming it seems obvious we are supposed to find Jezebels just a little sexy and aspirational. To say that "no one" would find it so.
Well, I do, the reviewers at Vox have written multiple criticisms of it, and even in this post, people have noted that it was "high class." 🤷♀️ you think that isnt intentional or "aspirational?" That people in Gilead both hate AND WANT the freedom of commanders? Okay then.
Here is the most recent review from Vox focusing on Jezebel's.
I try not to personalize different opinions in these posts bc we all read the show in our own way, but saying things like "no one would find it to be one way or the other?" I mean, I do. The reviewers at Vox do..so..yeah. actually people CAN read it that way. Part of why we all come in here is to get different reads right?
Also, yeah that's the scene from the book about Jezebel's.
Agree with PP that this was the best episode of the season and needed to happen 6 episodes ago.
I have such a love/hate relationship with Serena. She is such a terrible person and then she goes and does something like betraying Fred and makes me so happy. BUT I do recognize that everything she does is self serving. She thinks she’s going to get access to Nichole.
I bet Serena is working with June too to get the kids out to Canada. That was extra leverage for the Canadian guy to get involved. I don't think it is a coincidence June is fetching a plan to smuggle kids to Canada and Serena happens to turn on her husband IN CANADA. It is fucking annoying that most of the season was basically filler episodes. It should have been a 6 episode season honestly.
Not only that while I loved that she killed commander stabler...
With a ballpoint pen. That was fun and all but it was hard to believe June was able to puncture his vitals through his massive pectoral with just that pen lol.
And beyond that..again, it was awesome she killed him and struck back at the patriarchy just a little bit but..it was hollow bc..I mean, its June. Did anyone think she wouldnt be able to get away with murder? 🤷♀️
She didn't kill him with the pen, she mildly incapacitated him with the pen long enough to grab that heavy statue, and killed him with blunt force trauma to the head.
Is Vox also the one that started the “Commander Stabler is a closet gay” thing too?
Cos I never, ever got that vibe from him and was surprised when it popped up in comments here.
I think “aspirational” is where I run into issue with that review. I think Jezebels is meant to be sugar coated Gilead. A reminder that reality is still reality even when it’s glam, and to not be fooled by the big hair and fancy shoes.
I don’t think any of the women view Jezebels as a goal or desire. Even when June first went, she knew she was still “on”, that this was just a new set of rules, and was still about stroking Waterford, ego and otherwise.
I think Jezebels is a play on frat party rapes and casting call couches.
Is Vox also the one that started the “Commander Stabler is a closet gay” thing too?
Cos I never, ever got that vibe from him and was surprised when it popped up in comments here.
I didn’t need anyone to start that. The scene in episode 6 in the billiards room is very explicit - I actually went back to watch it after reading your post. If a guy did that to me, I would know exactly what he wanted. And in a world so repressed, that hand on the shoulder means even more.
I’m not saying he’s gay - but he’s 100% digging Fred.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
Is Vox also the one that started the “Commander Stabler is a closet gay” thing too?
Cos I never, ever got that vibe from him and was surprised when it popped up in comments here.
I didn’t need anyone to start that. The scene in episode 6 in the billiards room is very explicit - I actually went back to watch it after reading your post. If a guy did that to me, I would know exactly what he wanted. And in a world so repressed, that hand on the shoulder means even more.
I’m not saying he’s gay - but he’s 100% digging Fred.
So after reading your post I was so confused, I showed my DH (who has watched 0 minutes of THMT) the scene, and right at the butt/face encounter he was like “wait, is the guy from Wet Hot American Summer gay in this show?”
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
Is Vox also the one that started the “Commander Stabler is a closet gay” thing too?
Cos I never, ever got that vibe from him and was surprised when it popped up in comments here.
I didn’t need anyone to start that. The scene in episode 6 in the billiards room is very explicit - I actually went back to watch it after reading your post. If a guy did that to me, I would know exactly what he wanted. And in a world so repressed, that hand on the shoulder means even more.
I’m not saying he’s gay - but he’s 100% digging Fred.
It wasn't just the hand on the shoulder, it was also emphasizing his rear at Fred before that while taking his pool shot (which the camera location emphasized).
I don't know if he's gay but I do think the producers want us to think he is.
ETA though I admit that my impression is almost completely from that single scene, so it would be easy to miss if you were distracted.
I finally watched episode 11 and I AM SO GLAD Fred got arrested. I think party of the reason he was surprised is that his privilege usually lets him get away with things. He's not a strong person, and I hope they get him to tattle.
I think Serena set it up, but I'm not 100% on that.
I'm sad at how long it's been since we've seen Moira and Emily. I wish the show would check in on them briefly, too.
I finally watched episode 11 and I AM SO GLAD Fred got arrested. I think party of the reason he was surprised is that his privilege usually lets him get away with things. He's not a strong person, and I hope they get him to tattle.
I think Serena set it up, but I'm not 100% on that.
I'm sad at how long it's been since we've seen Moira and Emily. I wish the show would check in on them briefly, too.
The sneak peek of the next episode answers that question.
Post by redheadbaker on Aug 5, 2019 16:35:56 GMT -5
I hope (probably naively) that with Waterford imprisoned and Commander Stabler dead, Lawrence re-rises in power and they are able to get the children out.
I hope (probably naively) that with Waterford imprisoned and Commander Stabler dead, Lawrence re-rises in power and they are able to get the children out.
Oh, I didn't about that but it makes sense. I bet Lawrence will be free from arrest with his help getting those kids to Canada since they made such a fuss about it
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
I can't work out what her motivation was. It seems like except for the chance of Mrs Lawrence saying something she shouldn't or being difficult, everything would be easier/safer if she didn't die. There was a chance that Lawrence would lose it after the death and just go crazy, there's a chance that he'd change his mind (his wife was his reason for doing it), there's a chance that June will be removed from the household - a widower doesn't need a handmaid. So did she do it out of 'kindness' for Mrs Lawrence?
I need to watch it again.
Also Fred is lucky I wasn't there when he said "I changed her" because he wouldn't have been getting back up as easily. He looks so so creepy now too.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”