Guys, it’s just all so sad. Maybe this would be a good one to hug it out over, send some apologetic DM’s, lift up all grieving families who have lost little ones. Especially today. Think hard and follow my drift.
Excellent point. And enough with our squabbling. My heart goes out to every family who has lost a young child, especially the ones I've known. No one should have to go through that.
There are PLENTY of cases where a parent or caregiver acted negligently, a child died, and the person is not charged.
OK. Chapter and verse. Please give me a recent example and let's compare cases.
Very @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Pretty much every case where a parent leaves a gun out and a child kills themselves or another family member.
Cops killing unarmed black kids
Cops killing a mentally ill person while in handcuffs.
Parents unintentionally leaving their child in a hot car.
There are examples on both sides of the isle and as you know it is up to the DA to determine who and what to charge and they don't always get it right.
I've always felt like the grandfather bringing her to bang on the window was such a strange excuse. Why would he think it was a good idea to do something loud that is appropriate at a hockey game on a cruise ship with fellow passengers around?
Regardless of whether he is misremembering or deflecting, his actions in the moment (leaning out the open window, retrieving granddaughter, holding her out the window) were extremely foolish and not of sound judgement. If he was my father or father-in-law, I could never forgive him.
OK. Chapter and verse. Please give me a recent example and let's compare cases.
Very @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Pretty much every case where a parent leaves a gun out and a child kills themselves or another family member.
Cops killing unarmed black kids
Cops killing a mentally ill person while in handcuffs.
Parents unintentionally leaving their child in a hot car.
There are examples on both sides of the isle and as you know it is up to the DA to determine who and what to charge and they don't always get it right.
Per the bold, not the same. Law enforcement falls under a separate category. But the other two cases, yes, you're right. Often times there is no consistency wrt to prosecution.
I've seen the video. It was covered by a Puerto Rican news channel a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if it's still available on the Internet somewhere though.
The video they showed included two different views, both of which made it very clear that he leaned out of the window for a significant portion of time before picking the toddler up and holding her out the window. I've always been on the side of charging him, but watching the video definitely solidified my stance.
ETA: The news clip is still up, just hard to find. Search for La Comay.
Guys, it’s just all so sad. Maybe this would be a good one to hug it out over, send some apologetic DM’s, lift up all grieving families who have lost little ones. Especially today. Think hard and follow my drift.
Thank you. This "I would never" and "they should", etc. feels gross right now.
Pretty much every case where a parent leaves a gun out and a child kills themselves or another family member.
Cops killing unarmed black kids
Cops killing a mentally ill person while in handcuffs.
Parents unintentionally leaving their child in a hot car.
There are examples on both sides of the isle and as you know it is up to the DA to determine who and what to charge and they don't always get it right.
Per the bold, not the same. Law enforcement falls under a separate category. But the other two cases, yes, you're right. Often times there is no consistency wrt to prosecution.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but if we are going to discuss negligent homicides they also need to fall into the category of "never should have happened." That is my point I guess. I love you anyways
Why? She’s not wrong about the information that’s come up that doesn’t corroborate the grandfather’s original story.
She hasn’t said “I hope that mofo rots in prison!” She hasn't even wished for him to go to jail. She’s pointing out the facts. I’m not understanding where the hate is coming from unless y’all have had previous run-ins.
Maybe it’s too personal for me, the issue I have is related to the world “lie” after such a traumatic event.
Also, (and not necessarily related) is that the video hasn’t been released but only on screenshots.
Well I'll admit that is not what I was picturing happened. I thought the dangling comments were hyperbole and he more stood her on the rail, while still inside. You know, with like an arm wrapping around her waist, And then she leaned forward.
That is clearly not what happened. I agree his actions were negligent. How utterly tragic.
Post by georgeglass on Jan 19, 2020 10:53:32 GMT -5
I'm guessing he freaked out and told the family a different story than what happened - he may even have convinced himself it was the truth. I wonder if they are still standing by him now.
I also don’t get the pile-on for badger girl, there was actual name calling (vile, actual worst, etc) when she stated she didn’t believe the grandfathers story after being in the exact ship and there is still name calling for her stating the facts of the case. I understand this is a sensitive topic but this is the news, she provided an update to the thread that was relevant, whether most posters like the update or not.
I will admit that I feel a little out off by the fact that no one has apologized to me. I was treated pretty poorly in this thread despite that I never called anyone a name or was mean and no one has apologized to me despite a video showing I was correct.
I thought this was a board to have intelligent discussions about current events. But i guess when you are wrong instead of just saying that you personally attack others.
What part of my previous post(s) was wrong, given what was shared to the media at that time?
You still are asking this board to agree that the cruise line isn’t responsible based of what has been shared to the media, which I find weird. We are not the jurors in this case, in addition the full evidence has not been disclosed to the public.
I think it’s gross to assume he “lied” and came on TV for the purpose of to do this, that and the other.
Edit: the word lie insinuates an intent. People remember things differently so I will not assume his intent.
Could he have been intentionally not telling the truth (lying)? Yes. Could he have been so traumatized by what happened that what really happened was a blur. Yes. Could it be anywhere in between. Yes.
The way our brains remember things and events is not clear cut.
Do not think we should assume intent based on media reports.
You didn’t say that’s gross, you said I’m gross. For being right.
badgergrl states pure facts. She doesn't jump into this thread guns blazing, with hopes that the grandfather rots in hell.
I've been following this case because we've cruised around the world - with and without our son. There is no denying when a window is open. The height of the rails and windows is no different than those at high rise beachfront resorts. Color blindness wouldn't impair your ability to see if a (dark) tinted window were open or closed.
Seeing the videos I'm blown away by how HIGH the grandfather hoists her up. You can see a large section of his arm once he gets her body out the window. It doesn't look like he's even bear hugging her. It's not a 2 second lift so she can stand and bang on glass and then a fall. She's hanging out that window for a good long while. Prior to that he hangs HIS entire upper torso out the same window before hoisting her up. He doesn't walk to another window and assume it's closed. He doesn't walk away after he leans out himself. He merely bends down to pick her up. He is fully aware that it's open. I'm actually shocked that no one noticed her hanging out the window and intervened.
The family jumped right out and told news outlets that this happened in a children's play area. The incident happened in front of a bar! This wasn't the kids club or a splash pad.
While I do NOT hope the grandfather spends his final years in jail, I do hope the cruise line can avoid paying a single cent to the family. The cruise line is not at fault in any way. The grandfather made a terrible, terrible, sickening. mistake, followed by throwing out lies to cover himself in an attempt soften the blow to his children. He's only made things worse. The trauma of the incident didn't cloud his memory of what happened. He got scared and sputtered lies. He's human, but that still doesn't make it right to target a cruise line for millions. Money won't bring her back.
Not only do I feel bad for her family and their loss, but I feel bad for everyone who witnessed a baby fall 11 stories to the ground. I feel bad for the children who were walking by in the video the moment it happened. The families sitting at tables lining the pool deck windows who suddenly turned and looked down. For the children walking on the dock getting on / off the ship. His 34 seconds of stupidity have changed SO many lives forever. www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=118&v=ycQVf9Z861Y&feature=emb_logo
I also don’t get the pile-on for badger girl, there was actual name calling (vile, actual worst, etc) when she stated she didn’t believe the grandfathers story after being in the exact ship and there is still name calling for her stating the facts of the case. I understand this is a sensitive topic but this is the news, she provided an update to the thread that was relevant, whether most posters like the update or not.
I will admit that I feel a little out off by the fact that no one has apologized to me. I was treated pretty poorly in this thread despite that I never called anyone a name or was mean and no one has apologized to me despite a video showing I was correct.
Yes, the public excoriation before the video is quite the contrast with the radio silence now. I guess people really can’t stand being shown to be wrong. You are owed several apologies but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them.
Post by NewOrleans on Jan 19, 2020 19:11:39 GMT -5
Yesterday I urged you nicely to stop. Today I’m going to tell you all to shut the entire fuck up. How callous can you people be? Fuck this thread and you heifers still going at it. It would have been nice to let this thread slip away off the front page this fucking weekend, but that was too much to ask for. For shame.
Yesterday I urged you nicely to stop. Today I’m going to tell you all to shut the entire fuck up. How callous can you people be? Fuck this thread and you heifers still going at it. It would have been nice to let this thread slip away off the front page this fucking weekend, but that was too much to ask for. For shame.
Stop, dude. You're not the board mom. This thread has been @ identified and precautions have been taken to give warning to the content, but this is news.
Also, the behavior of many posters in this thread is also a perfect example of the group think we all tend to get caught up in and the frequent pile on posters that disagree with the majority even a little bit experience. badgergrl deserves so many apologies for the way she was treated.
We all heard you yesterday. I am 1000% aware to what you're referring as are other posters. Others may or may not be but this isn't a place for you to bring it up, either. So either have the thread locked or walk away. Also you making a comment isn't helping the thread from falling to the bottom of the page.
Post by virginia1212 on Jan 19, 2020 20:20:04 GMT -5
I think it’s important to note that he is the STEP grandfather, who knows how long he’s been in the child’s/parents life and how much he’s actually been around children. I wouldn’t hold my phone out a window like that for fear of dropping it, I cannot fathom holding a child out a window like that. It’s beyond negligence. He belongs in jail.
I think it’s important to note that he is the STEP grandfather, who knows how long he’s been in the child’s/parents life and how much he’s actually been around children. I wouldn’t hold my phone out a window like that for fear of dropping it, I cannot fathom holding a child out a window like that. It’s beyond negligence. He belongs in jail.
What?! No I don’t think that’s important to note at all, and it implies very ugly things about step-relationships. Wtf.
Post by nicbreeful on Jan 19, 2020 21:12:49 GMT -5
I, too, noticed that in the video one person identifies him as her grandfather and another as her STEP grandfather. Do we know which one it is definitively?
I, too, noticed that in the video one person identifies him as her grandfather and another as her STEP grandfather. Do we know which one it is definitively?
What does it matter?
I stand by my comments that have been made.
I find it very odd to me that badgergrl made such wild accusations from the beginning that were outside of what was disclosed to the general public. Yes, I agree that they ended up being true but it feels like she knew/knows more than what was released until now.
I still disagree with calling someone a liar because it assumes motive.
I, too, noticed that in the video one person identifies him as her grandfather and another as her STEP grandfather. Do we know which one it is definitively?
What does it matter?
I stand by my comments that have been made.
I find it very odd to me that badgergrl made such wild accusations from the beginning that were outside of what was disclosed to the general public. Yes, I agree that they ended up being true but it feels like she knew/knows more than what was released until now.
I still disagree with calling someone a liar because it assumes motive.
Didn't say it did. I was asking because one reporter said one thing and another said something else.
Post by turnipthebeet on Jan 19, 2020 21:27:25 GMT -5
WTMF to these step comments? I haven’t watched the video or read any recent articles but how could that possibly be relevant? My kids’ grandfather, the only one they’ve ever known, is a step.
I find it very odd to me that badgergrl made such wild accusations from the beginning that were outside of what was disclosed to the general public. Yes, I agree that they ended up being true but it feels like she knew/knows more than what was released until now.
I still disagree with calling someone a liar because it assumes motive.
Didn't say it did. I was asking because one reporter said one thing and another said something else.
You didn’t have to specifically say it, your post said it all. The fact that you were asking means it was some type of factor in your mind.
WTMF to these step comments? I haven’t watched the video or read any recent articles but how could that possibly be relevant? My kids’ grandfather, the only one they’ve ever known, is a step.
I cannot fathom someone who has experience around children (raised children) doing what he did in the video. He obviously didn’t care much about her safety to put her in an insanely dangerous position. Obviously blood related people do these things too, but all these people claiming how devastated he must be and how he doesn’t deserve more punishment, if he’s never had a child or grandchild...it’s different for some people. Dangling a child out of a window, any window, I just cannot.
Didn't say it did. I was asking because one reporter said one thing and another said something else.
You didn’t have to specifically say it, your post said it all. The fact that you were asking means it was some type of factor in your mind.
Why wouldn't it be if a news site can't get their own facts straight?
I loved my stepmother. I still talk to her even tho they're no longer together. Was closer to her than my own mother so don't assume that I think that step-relationships can't be just as special as bio relationships.
You didn’t have to specifically say it, your post said it all. The fact that you were asking means it was some type of factor in your mind.
Why wouldn't it be if a news site can't get their own facts straight?
I loved my stepmother. I still talk to her even tho they're no longer together. Was closer to her than my own mother so don't assume that I think that step-relationships can't be just as special as bio relationships.
What.does.it.matter?
I’m going to have to step away from this thread, for multiple reasons.
I, too, noticed that in the video one person identifies him as her grandfather and another as her STEP grandfather. Do we know which one it is definitively?
What does it matter?
I stand by my comments that have been made.
I find it very odd to me that badgergrl made such wild accusations from the beginning that were outside of what was disclosed to the general public. Yes, I agree that they ended up being true but it feels like she knew/knows more than what was released until now.
I still disagree with calling someone a liar because it assumes motive.
Did you not read what I originally wrote? My so called wild accusations were because I had personally been where this girl fell. I knew it wasnt a child’s play area because there aren’t windows in any child play area. I know how the windows open and how the railings are so that the only way a kid could fall was being dangled. Just based on having been on this and many other RC ships.
As to the lying I believe that it is also in the court paperwork that the grandfather told PR officials the true story, which is why he was charged. It was only after filing the civil law suit that all this color blind, thought there was a window there, Hockey pounding bull shit lies were spewed.
Edited to add: I have been a registered member here since 2012- and lurked for a while after joining the knot in 2003. Are you saying I secretly work for the cruise line and hung out here for 15+ years waiting for my moment? And that’s how I know things? That’s a leap
I’m not sure what you are trying to imply with “I know things”.