This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida. My friend is spending quite a bit of money on a college guidance service for her kid because she wants her out of Florida. The perspective of that counselor is that AP classes hold a much higher value than dual enrollment at a local college…used to be “community college” but now offers 4 year degrees. Also of priority was 4 years of language, 5 credits of math and 5 credits of science…considering high school is 4 years I find that fascinating lol. I mean obviously I understand how it works, but that you MUST be taking high school classes in middle school in order to be competitive for college is wild to me. Standard track here is Algebra as an 8th grader for high school credit and accelerated track is algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th as high school credit. There is no science high school in middle school so I guess you have to double up.
Yep. I think it would be easier to get into an Ivy school than some of our state schools. There is automatic admission for like the top 8%? After that well, good luck.
Yeah, she's going to be compared to her class at her school. You should be able to get that info from her counselor, some schools post it (along with stats like grad rate) on their website.
My 11th grader just finished his schedule for next year. He'll have 9 or 10 AP classes total, he started in 9th with CSA and HG. He's also in an IBDP, so the rest of his classes in 11/12th grade are also intense/heavily weighted. Non-AP/IB classes in MS/9th/10th grades were all honors level (except for one covid era 8th grade HS elective- we didn't know, ha). And he'll have 2-3 DE math classes (at our state flagship) next year, too, as he's run out of in school math class options. He'll have 4 SS, 4 English, 6 science, 5 foreign language (all Spanish) and a whopping 9-10 math classes (between A1/2 and Geometry in MS and DE).
He's not applying to Ivies- the COA is just too $$$$$ (even assuming generous need).
This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida. My friend is spending quite a bit of money on a college guidance service for her kid because she wants her out of Florida. The perspective of that counselor is that AP classes hold a much higher value than dual enrollment at a local college…used to be “community college” but now offers 4 year degrees. Also of priority was 4 years of language, 5 credits of math and 5 credits of science…considering high school is 4 years I find that fascinating lol. I mean obviously I understand how it works, but that you MUST be taking high school classes in middle school in order to be competitive for college is wild to me. Standard track here is Algebra as an 8th grader for high school credit and accelerated track is algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th as high school credit. There is no science high school in middle school so I guess you have to double up.
It's really not that unusual to take Bio (virtually or bused to a HS) in MS- my 8th grader is!
We are in the same school system as devonpow . In addition to class loads, many students here ( including my own) are legacy at Ivys, which may also help in some way.
My kids aren't high school yet, but I am not looking forward to the stress that so many kids seem to be under ( seeing more of it be a contributing factor in the mental health crisis) when it comes to school and college. H's niece did all the things that you would think would put you in that 4% acceptance rate and was devastated when she was waitlisted at UCLA.
So much pressure on kids to know what they want to be and to start working towards it at age 13 On one hand, its great when kids know and have the motivation to excel. On the other, they have their whole lives to be part of the stressful working world and would love for more kids to enjoy those last years of being a kid without so much academic pressure.
Good luck to everyone here and their children navigating high school and the collage process!
This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida. My friend is spending quite a bit of money on a college guidance service for her kid because she wants her out of Florida. The perspective of that counselor is that AP classes hold a much higher value than dual enrollment at a local college…used to be “community college” but now offers 4 year degrees. Also of priority was 4 years of language, 5 credits of math and 5 credits of science…considering high school is 4 years I find that fascinating lol. I mean obviously I understand how it works, but that you MUST be taking high school classes in middle school in order to be competitive for college is wild to me. Standard track here is Algebra as an 8th grader for high school credit and accelerated track is algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th as high school credit. There is no science high school in middle school so I guess you have to double up.
Yep. I think it would be easier to get into an Ivy school than some of our state schools. There is automatic admission for like the top 8%? After that well, good luck.
Honestly we should be ashamed of ourselves for doing this to kids. My son asked if he could get info UF and I was like yeah, probably not. He came into 9th grade with two high school A credits, is in all honors classes but one and that’s because it didn’t work with his schedule and he is in only in top 12% never having a B on his report card. My friend was like oh everyone is probably doing virtual for more credits and rank (he is too young to dual enroll and ap are not offered for freshmen). Really??? I mean that’s wonderful if you want to double up on science and get five credits, but to make that expected? Yikes.
Yep. I think it would be easier to get into an Ivy school than some of our state schools. There is automatic admission for like the top 8%? After that well, good luck.
Honestly we should be ashamed of ourselves for doing this to kids. My son asked if he could get info UF and I was like yeah, probably not. He came into 9th grade with two high school A credits, is in all honors classes but one and that’s because it didn’t work with his schedule and he is in only in top 12% never having a B on his report card. My friend was like oh everyone is probably doing virtual for more credits and rank (he is too young to dual enroll and ap are not offered for freshmen). Really??? I mean that’s wonderful if you want to double up on science and get five credits, but to make that expected? Yikes.
Exactly. No wonder there is a mental health crisis in teens. What are we doing?! Even if we as parents don’t put this pressure on them teachers and peers do. Education is broken.
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida.
That's because the rest of us can't help but see the beaches. My (Philly) girls at school are absolutely obsessed with the South, esp. Florida. Their parents are like, wtf!? lol
Also remember that all high schools have different prerequisites and pathways. I know some schools allow geometry in 8th. Our district does not. Algebra 1 in 8th is our most accelerated pathway. You also can’t skip precalculus or AP Calc AB. So if you want to take BC senior year, you take Algebra 1 in 8th and then summer between sophomore and junior year you take this insane six week, six hour a day before you factor in the homework, trig precalculus class. DS did that.
And every high school has a different schedule. I see some schools with semester-long courses. Ours, with the exception of AP Gov and Econ, are all year long.
We also had him email his admissions rep at his top choice school when he was making his sophomore year schedule to ask if there were any classes they looked for in applicants. The admissions officer was great and shared all their requirements and preferences. Since this is an out of state school for us, it was good to talk to the school because the info our school site college office had was minimal.
Also keep in mind that an “easy” AP for one kid may be hard for another. I know a lot of kids struggled with APUSH because of the writing requirements. Lots of different kinds of essays. DS found it to be one of his easiest AP classes (which was in part due to his amazing teacher).
With regard to the 5 years of math or science stuff, remember that there are classes you may think of as electives that count as science and math. AP CSP is a science but also an elective and AP CSA is a math. So if your kid takes those as electives, and takes Algebra in 8th, it’s pretty easy to have more than the 4 years of math and science. DS will have 5 years of science and 6 years of math, and didn’t take any online or extra or whatever, except for that summer precalc insanity.
This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida.
That's because the rest of us can't help but see the beaches. My (Philly) girls at school are absolutely obsessed with the South, esp. Florida. Their parents are like, wtf!? lol
That explains the schools on the coasts, but none of the big three are all that close to a beach! I think it's because tuition is so low, even for OOS.
If she wants to go to an ivy league school she will need to show that she took the most rigorous courses offered. For many schools, those are AP courses but for others they might be DE or honors classes.
I would also encourage her to take a variety of elective courses. Schools like to see kiddos with diverse interests.
If she wants to go to an ivy league school she will need to show that she took the most rigorous courses offered. For many schools, those are AP courses but for others they might be DE or honors classes.
I would also encourage her to take a variety of elective courses. Schools like to see kiddos with diverse interests.
I wish schools would have one more period for electives. My kid is in a spanish immersion school. If he continues spanish in HS then that eliminates one elective and if he continues band that eliminates the other. He can be done with PE after 2 years but AP science classes take up two class periods. So no elective choice again. He realy likes band, but wishes he could take art or something.
Honestly we should be ashamed of ourselves for doing this to kids. My son asked if he could get info UF and I was like yeah, probably not. He came into 9th grade with two high school A credits, is in all honors classes but one and that’s because it didn’t work with his schedule and he is in only in top 12% never having a B on his report card. My friend was like oh everyone is probably doing virtual for more credits and rank (he is too young to dual enroll and ap are not offered for freshmen). Really??? I mean that’s wonderful if you want to double up on science and get five credits, but to make that expected? Yikes.
Exactly. No wonder there is a mental health crisis in teens. What are we doing?! Even if we as parents don’t put this pressure on them teachers and peers do. Education is broken.
I've had this convo lately with parent friends, as some discuss leaving our city school system to move to the tony suburbs due to perceived violence at our high school. But the towns they mention moving to "for the schools" are known to be insane pressure-cookers (for locals, Lexington, A-B, etc). I'd be much more concerned for my kid's mental health at a school where everyone has insane pressure to be top of their class / take all the APs than their physical health here in my less prestigious school system.
This is fascinating to me as our school system is so different to this - we are based on the UK system. But the pressure is bad everywhere - we have school placement exams for 11/12 year olds which determine their high school (high school starts in year 7 here) and those exams are crazy competitive- kids are taking extra lessons, having tutors, in class for 50 hours a week. The top high school gets kids into Ivys, Oxford etc every year. But it is thousands of kids competing for a place there.
My kid is aiming to get in there and should (I am an alumni and he is also a national level swimmer which they want) but I hate the stress on the kids at that age. But once they are in high school, there aren't as many decisions to make as there is a clear track for them to follow.
If she wants to go to an ivy league school she will need to show that she took the most rigorous courses offered. For many schools, those are AP courses but for others they might be DE or honors classes.
I think this statement is accurate. My DD is a sophomore with an interest in science and math. She originally took Honors English her freshman year because she didn't want the pressure of having all GT (the freshman equivalent of AP) classes to start out with. She found it to be very easy and is now taking all GT/AP classes. I hear that Junior year is the toughest and I'm concerned that she has 5 AP classes - English, History, Math, and 2 in science. But she's REALLY interested in science so it makes sense for her. She does 2 after school clubs that are once a week for an hour and does swimming and running non-competitively once a week for an hour along with an hour music lesson. So basically she just has 5 hours per week of other stuff that helps to keep her active and feeds her interests. She is motivated, but not highly motivated, and I think it works for her.
One strategy some kids I did in DS's class was to take the honors version of the subject and sit the AP test. The kids who did this didn't plan to go Ivy, so it might not apply to your situation. Our district weights grades heavily but did get rid of class rank.
Another strategy that went well for engineering/science majors was to take their future college non-major requirements and electives as AP because the schools they attended required students to take the STEM classes on campus. Two of them took world language, music and literature as their AP classes (our school "limits" them to juniors/seniors and I've never seen a kid OK's for more than 2-3 a year) -- this saved them both at least a semester. One managed to graduate a year early, but he took extra credits in college as well.
Another one of DS's friends who went to a cyber-homeschool combo took only AP classes in school. He's a real bright kid and got into the Ivy of his choice, as well as a couple selective schools. He did well in college but still figuring out where he's going. I ran into him a couple years ago happily working in a candy store; his dad told me he's working as a paralegal and applying to law school. Dad's a dual PhD and shakes his head a lot.
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
Trust me, you're not screwing her at all. My kid is a junior, high achieving, and we're perfectly happy to have him go to our state school, which is University of Oregon. I don't want him spending his teen years with an ulcer from all the pressure. He's just a kid!
My gosh, my high school offered only a handful of AP classes. Times have changed! I took all the highest classes offered except for English because an English person I was not.
My college admission year was highly competitive and I did not get into the vast majority of schools that I applied to. I was too generic, I suppose. “A” grade average, all the best classes (except English), varsity swimmer, NHS member… I was in a sea of thousands just like me. The night of opening rejection after rejection letter was horrible.
Anyway, I do not regret the classes that I took. I handled them fine and they were appropriate for my academic level. I actually took Calc A over the summer so I could take Calc BC as a senior. It was my choice because I loved the challenge! I did not do it to look better to colleges (not that it worked anyway).
My advice would be for a kid to take the classes that are at their level. All the AP classes in the world won’t get you into a good school; they simply give you a shot. Balance the chances of that shot with what makes you happy.
My daughter is only 7, but she has dyslexia and is going to struggle in school for awhile. I hate that this is all on the horizon for her.
EDIT: I made up for my shitty college admissions with my grad school admissions. I got in every. single. school. that I applied to, including two Ivies. I got my Ph.D. at an Ivy. Delayed satisfaction eventually worked out for my academic-self.
My kids aren't high school yet, but I am not looking forward to the stress that so many kids seem to be under ( seeing more of it be a contributing factor in the mental health crisis) when it comes to school and college. H's niece did all the things that you would think would put you in that 4% acceptance rate and was devastated when she was waitlisted at UCLA.
So much pressure on kids to know what they want to be and to start working towards it at age 13 On one hand, its great when kids know and have the motivation to excel. On the other, they have their whole lives to be part of the stressful working world and would love for more kids to enjoy those last years of being a kid without so much academic pressure.
Good luck to everyone here and their children navigating high school and the collage process!
I agree and why I'm trying to walk David back a bit with the dual enrollment, which his school pushes more than AP although they do offer some AP classes for upper classes. I don't really understand what the rush is? Other than a little financial gain that isn't significant to us...why not just do the typical four years in college? Why pile on a bunch of difficult classes so young? The more and more I read here, the more I want to talk him out of dual enrollment. He has all of the college meetings starting this spring, then we do a college tour with his school in April and I guess we'll get more info then.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jan 31, 2024 10:13:48 GMT -5
The reality is that the vast majority of kids won't go Ivy, they'll go to some other school, get a fine education, get a decent job, and will be perfectly fine in life with or without AP/DE/IB courses in high school.
For 9th grade, my gifted, honors, wants to go to a fancy school kid has selected 0. She has opted into every "honors" version of the classes she is taking. The school offers an IB diploma too, so 10th grade is a big decision making year--opt it or out. General, loose plans are to have either 6-8+ AP classes OR an IB diploma plus however many APs work with that curriculum by graduation.
Freaking out about college is so universal and so early in our school community. And my husband went to an Ivy and I went to a highly ranked public college so there's a lot of internal and some external pressure to equal or exceed that. Her father and I don't care about the rankings of our child's future college. But she does and her friends do and our parents are very "you're so smart, I'm sure XYZ fancy school will want you," and, and, and...
So when she said 0 APs so she can get used to 9th grade and focus on her honors classes and the IB track decision, I was like "SOUNDS GREAT. GOOD JOB TAKING CARE OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH AND SCHOOL CAREER."
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
She'll be fine. There are schools out there for everyone.
As a senior mom I know how easy it is to read these types of threads and get stressed and caught up in the craziness. But take a step back and realize it isn't necessary.
There are great schools out there with 50, 60, or even 90% acceptance rates. Where a student will thrive academically and socially.
Also. Everywhere we go on vacation we try to visit a college in that area. So both my kids see the variety in options. And, importantly, how different schools "feel."
We do it casual tourist style. "This campus has the only graphic design lab in this state" and "check out that historic building" and "let's eat in the cafeteria."
We aren't going to any Ivies, except my husband's alma mater. Ha.
Are AP classes necessary for all college applicants or just Ivy League?
If my kid wants to go to a college like Michigan State are AP classes necessary? My kids are in 7th grade so we are not there yet so I am just curious.
No. I think they'd be fine with Michigan State without any APs.
University of Michigan would likely be tough, but not Michigan State. One of our state schools is similar to Michigan State and i know many students who got in with no AP classes.
I legit don't know what I am doing but we have a pretty smart kid. He is currently a sophomore. I probably should have asked this question a couple years ago lol. I don't think he has any intention of going ivy, but certainly some academic scholarships are the goal.
My son goes to public school. He takes all honors level courses available to him because then he can guarantee he is in class with likeminded students. If he takes the general classes there can be a lot of tomfoolery. He has taken 1 AP class per year so far (US History and World History.) He has been able to handle the course load very well and still has above a 4.0.
Next year he is taking 5 AP courses because some of the courses don't offer honors level like spanish 4. He does not intend to take all of those tests though. Heck, we can't afford to have him take all of the tests at $130 a pop lol. But again it is his way of staying in the upper level course work.
I have zero idea if this is the best choice. We let him take the lead and then just support.
Post by DotAndBuzz on Jan 31, 2024 10:42:45 GMT -5
ok, approaching this from a different angle - WHY does she want to go ivy? I'm asking this because I feel like when kids are super early in the process, they don't really know much about schools other than name/reputation. Ivies have big names, and big reputations, but do any of these schools look to be a good fit for her, in terms of what she's interested in? Does she even know the direction she wants to go for studies/career?
N goes to a small private school where lots of parents went to lvy schools. But what her teachers and college counselor has said is to really focus on what she likes. Only take advanced classes that she's interested in, and can do well in. And *even then*, they don't recommend taking more than 2 a year, plus an honors at most, so 3 advanced level classes. The other thing they stress over and over is balance, and showing commitment to something other than school, including having a part time job possibly unrelated to your area of interest (so not necessarily scoring an internship in a lab, but maybe just working at the bagel shop, or Staples, or whatever for a couple years). 8 AP classes don't look so hot if you've done nothing else with your time. According to them, schools are more interested in WHO they are admitting, not necessarily maxing out academic statistics.
She's a sophomore now, and taking AP US History (APUSH), advanced chem, and honors Algebra 2. Also Spanish 3 and regular (not honors) brit lit. Next year she wants to take AP Spanish, AP chem, and AP bio. Regular English, history, and pre-calc. She wants to go into pharmacy, and just loves (and is really good at) Spanish. But that's a *HEAVY* load, and she is still committed to theater and a few other extra curricular that she genuinely loves, so I don't know where we'll land. Most kids at her school end up with 4-5 AP classes total, and the college admissions list from their school is always impressive, but what is equally impressive is how much stuff the kids do outside of their academic classes.
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
Same! Ha. My kid is doing well but I actually discouraged her from taking a pre-AP course in 9th which meant she couldn’t take the AP in 10th. It was in a class she had no interest in so it seemed silly to me to push herself in that.
I am just trying to have faith that there are plenty of options and for most people the school they attend isn’t that important. I just want her to find a place she likes!
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
We haven't either besides him taking a tough course load. I don't want to put pressure on him. He already feels it enough. I made a mental rule to not even talk about it this year as a sophomore. I naively think that if he puts in the work everything will work itself out. But he doesn't have ivy aspirations, which I am grateful for. Our goal is to get him through his bachelors degree debt free.
For those specifically interested in Ivy applications, I follow @limmytalks on instagram. He reads off the details of college apps, and then tells you what schools they applied to and whether they were accepted. It's very Ivy/high achieving focused. And my takeaway is that it is 100% a crapshoot as to whether your kid is accepted to any given school, no matter how amazing their credentials.
At this point my kid has his heart absolutely set on a school with a 95% acceptance rate. It has his major, and for us, he is more likely to get merit scholarship there, where his (mostly likely 3.7-3.8) GPA will stand out as well above average, than if he pushes toward a "reach" school. At the end of the day, he will be eligible for the exact same jobs as the kids who went to more selective schools.
I'm in a parent group related to his intended major (aviation/pro flight) and there is a LOT of discussion about sending kids to the "sweatshirt schools" (Purdue, Auburn, Embry Riddle) vs a guaranteed admittance school vs community college vs airline training programs. In the end, they all end up in the same jobs, so it's really just how much you want to/have available to spend, and what environment your kid is looking for.
It is eye opening though because people are very open about sharing their kids' stats and which schools they got into, along with how much merit money they were offered. It has been super helpful to me for planning purposes, and to just get a better handle on the landscape.
It has actually made me way less worried than I was previously. There is absolutely a school for every kid.